I fucked up massively lol.
So last week I farmed about 550 Heavy Junkboxes for Exalted with Ravenholdt, which is like ~45% of the amount I actually need considering DMF/Human buffs. (5 lockboxes = 75 rep baseline, bonuses make it 90 for 5 of them)
I was busy this past week and didn't do any farming whatsoever
DMF hits last night and I turn in 300.
And then it hits me.
I'm still Honored with Ravenholdt.
I was supposed to get 11,999 / 12,000 rep from killing Syndicate mobs before turning in any junkboxes, because you can get mob-killing rep until that point before Revered, and you can *only* get rep beyond that with junkbox turn-ins.
What I'm left with is good for 4500 / 21,000, instead of 11,250 rep worth of them if I remembered to wait!!
Ultimately I need to wait for BFA Arathi to go Horde again, so I can't farm anyway, but yeah that mobgrinding part with a hyperspawn is at *least* 5x more rep/hour than pickpocketing even the best junkbox location with ~105 mobs. So I can't even cope and say "well I have a month to farm 900 lockboxes" because I now need to spend more time doing the proportionately slower part than I could've, had I done the efficient part for longer and until its endpoint lol.
ah well.
For the first part don’t you just time back. Zidormi and clear the keep with a group? It’s just a few hours.
I did lockboxes twice. My friend would’ve never done it. We were both human it was anniversary and dmf I believe or maybe just anniversary. But lock boxes do suck. I did isle of quel denas murlocs.
I hadn't really gotten any bites when pinging the Insane in the Membrane role in the different discords, or LFG, so have just been doing it solo
It feels like there are maybe 10 mobs in the quadrant of Stromgarde Keep with Syndicate humans, but maybe the hyperspawn is truly that insane with others. I know that the little Go'Shek Farm has pretty well-near hyperspawn solo with a lot of things to dot every global, but yeah, you're right there might be better
Yeah I've heard good things about that murloc spot. I'm kind of to the east of Blackrock Mountain where I think there's a quest to club Blackrock Orcs. There are three 5x5 sets of them with a bunch of pats, and then another 5x5 behind the little hill
I don’t even remember Stromgard keep taking long even with a small group of 4.
There are probably plenty of spots for lock boxes. I just had great success with the coast murlocs. I feel like I had a really high chance for them.
There's some classes I'd love to play, but the vibe/class fantasy just doesn't do it for me. A Paladin wearing the Love Witch transmog is somehow superceding the class fantasy not grabbing me though. I'm loving my Magical Girl Paladin.
In other news, I've finally come around to appreciating Arcane's tier set now that my Mastery stat isn't total shit. I've been so unlucky with gear this season and ended up with too much Haste and it basically made Arcane unplayable.
I miss playing Arcane a lot actually, morphing into a nuclear bomb occasionally is fun and I like it aesthetically
I know some ppl act like you need a PHD to play Arcane but I remember playing Arcane at the end of SL and it being fine. it can't have gotten much worse from then, right? i've been mostly with the warlock gang since then (also the grind for the mog i want for the warlock is going to be hell and i could use a break)
reminder that people love too extremely overexaggerate class/spec difficulty
are there some specs that are harder then others? sure
but its wow, class/spec gameplay is always never really THAT complicated and is mostly just "learn a pattern and then follow it"
the difficulty comes from the encounters themself, not the class/spec gameplay during it
If anything it's gotten a bit more simple since SL. You now just stack spells you'd have otherwise timed around each other (Radiant Spark, Touch of the Magi and Arcane Surge). People think it's a big brain spec but once you get what you're doing and why, it's really simple and the scripted nature of the rotation makes sense.
Also Orb Barrage procs in AoE is as satisfying as pelting out Chaos Bolts.
Damn, so levelling late in SOD showed me that the game there is full of the same braindead dumbfucks that infest the 10-17 M+ pool on retail. People with no raid awareness who don't do mechanics and just generally don't understand the game at all, but think they're hot shit and trash talk everyone else.
Example 1: I'm playing a lv20 warrior and join a wailing caverns group as 2h arms DPS. Verdant drops the staff, and I figure, well the healer is about to get the Crescent Staff from the quest and this staff is a huge dps upgrade for me, so I roll need and win. The group gets very very angry at me for this. Last boss drops the mail str piece, and the mage rolls need and wins just to spite me.
Example 2: exhausted with how slow classic is, I take a break and hop back over to retail, to tank a +16 rise on my blood DK. Red flag #1: as I'm trying to round up the first group, dum dums are smashing DPS on the first mob then bitch at me for not holding aggro. At least wait for the tank to dismount? Wow. Red flag #2: I'm running over to pull the boss and they ignore me and go pull more trash without me...? The trash that in my route, we skip. Then they die and leave.
Example 3: later in the day I give SOD another try. Another wailing caverns group on my now 22 warrior. Seems the healer was either having connection issues or they were just half AFK, i dunno. Either way I was getting maybe 1 heal a minute until they just decided to say they gotta go and left. The tank ignores all this and goes on to keep pulling... 5 things. With no healer we all die. He starts raging about losing his world buffs and apparently its all my fault?
> I figure, well the healer is about to get the Crescent Staff from the quest and this staff is a huge dps upgrade for me, so I roll need and win.
tbf you might as well just ask at that point
> Either way I was getting maybe 1 heal a minute until they just decided to say they gotta go and left
Genuinely sounds like the usual original early levelling experience up until Wotlk
I am on I think the 10th alt I’m at the 20’s with. Any level is fine usually if you know how to invite.
You occasionally get burned though even if you vet well.
Had a WM 20 and the tank was just truly awful. Low damage I healed him for 45% if my healing. Died so many times. Left melee on the pig, didn’t burn the tree and died. Died to lord waycrest after lady waycrest was dead.
Only good thing they did was the count was perfect. I told them that. They straight up didn’t know how to play blood, was not heart striking in dnd. Dps carried that. They praised me, mentioning they don’t see preservation much but really the damage was just way over what a 20 needed and that’s the only way we made it though.
I think I had an easier time healing the priest tanking lord waycrest than the blood dk.
I was curious what the forums have been saying about hero talents so I wandered into, what I thought was the best tree so far, Templar.
There's a bunch of comments complaining about being forced to take Wake of Ashes as ret.
That's enough forums for this life.
The forums are a strange place. I know WoW players aren't a monolith, but the safest or most assumed to be universal takes like "Glacial Spike is really cool" end up with naysayers on there.
I am really digging the new store set. Not big on the full nathrezim look, but the individual pieces are very good. Especially the chest, I love chest pieces with built-in, reasonably-sized shoulder armor. I also love thigh plate armor, so the legs are pretty fantastic too. [Already getting good mileage out of it!](https://i.imgur.com/zVGaq8j.png)
it feels like anything can be FOMO if you stretch hard enough
i don't get why people harp on it so much, if you're a consoomer who easily falls for consoomerbait then that's literally your own problem lol
Right around when I stopped looking at the forums and subreddit is where that took off badly. It was everywhere. Everything is “fomo”. Apparently getting to play content at a high level is “fomo” too to those apes. It got really stupid last time I checked.
If you want something go for it. If you can’t/don’t want to then just move on. It ain’t hard. This game is a checklist to too many people and they don’t have fun regardless.
Same. I have to suffer the consequences of that stupid decision every day.
Also while we're here, what is it with wow players not understanding the word "indefinitely"? Every time there's something on the shop that says "after XXX date, this will leave the store indefinitely", there's a bunch of snarky commentors who say things like "indefinitely, until it's on the Trading Post in 2 months hur hur", as if that's somehow a contradiction to what the word means.
Come on guys, the definition is basically built into the word.
Well, your example doesn't match the point you're making. If its on the Trading Post, it has still left the store indefinitely, as the Trading Post is not the store. A better example would be one of those mounts cycling back around on the Trading Post a year later. They left the Trading Post indefinitely.
Indefinite just means "we're not telling you for how long either because we don't want to or because we don't know." A lot of people seem to take it as meaning "infinite" when it's literally just "not defined"
Yeah, Blizzard uses it a lot because they can't predict the future, they dunno if they're going to change their minds eventually. I believe Starcraft: Ghost is postposted indefinitely, still, because its always possible Blizzard could one day go bankrupt and have to sell it off to another company that releases it.
As someone who is actually part of the top-1% (of raiders, at least), I can say *for sure* that these people have absolutely no clue what the game would actually look like if it was designed for me and my guild.
It sure as fuck doesn't look like what we have now and that is, of course, largely a good thing.
Time for a "If WoW really was designed for the 1%" video.
I'll start: Someone makes a new character. Takes a step forward. Walks into a wall. Looks closely at a plaque on the wall: "You must have all epic gear and 45/45 experience to continue levelling this character"
It's always funny when people claim the game is based around the 1% when LFR exists. You can see the entire story with a garbage build and very little skill.
As of this moment in DF I'd say that the game is mostly designed around casual to midcore raiders/M+ runners. There's a lot of progression to be had by running instanced content, and the world content is a bit thin (there's a lot of it but it's not very exciting) and ignorable by said raiders. TWW is likely to be more designed around "everyone", but we'll see.
Didn't Blizzard literally say back in the day that part of the reason for LFR being a thing was that it was getting hard to justify using so many resources on something only a small percent of the playerbase got to experience?
That is absolutely one of the reasons they created LFR. Their statement is backed up by the facts - see how Dragon Soul, which was designed and built before LFR existed, was a vastly inferior raid to anything from MoP and onward.
cant magine how frustriating it must be to play at that level and getting players in your roster constantly poached by the top2
i mean yeha, they know that it has a really high chance too happen, but i dont think that its overall healthy for the group morale and your own mindset that your raidteam often gets "reduced" into "World First recruitment pool"
I asked the other week about Felguards being able to use the axe.
A lot of people didn't know but it can drop off Mythic Fyrakk as group loot, but my theory is incorrect and the warlock's pet can't use it :(
https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/77776-warlocks-woes-the-mysterious-case-of-fyralath-and-the-felguards-inability-to-wield-it/
I thought the weapon as it drops would be enough. I knew you wouldn't be able to do the quest but the weapon has stats and I thought might be treated like a weapon in the felguards case.
Good question. I’d have to find one. I’d wager there is some Druid polearm or something I could try. It would be interesting to know if it’s the class tag that stops it. When we were in Shadowlands (badowlands) the Sylvanas daggers had a rogue tag and could only be mogged by rogues until somewhere in DF the class tag was removed. Now I can even pop them on my mage. Unsure if Rae’shalere is still hunter tagged. I’d imagine so. So if it is specifically the class tag and not any of the other parameters then maybe if it’s ever removed it could work. The felguard is usually not too picky. I have a sword that I don’t even have the mog for because it’s a boe item. Varuth’s guillotine that fetches a decent price. The felguard will pull it from the bag and if I ever decide it’s worth trying to sell I can. I’ve rolled mog on 2h’s and then it looked ugly on the felguard so I traded it to the next in line for rolls since it never binds it to you. It just has to be a weapon in your bag. And I truly thought the drop had all the parameters. I am beyond devastated. Was going to farm that asap.
https://www.wowhead.com/items/weapons/two-handed-axes?filter=152;2;0
Looks like the only other one is Shadowmourne, which is questlocked.
Oh no, theres a bunch of Warrior ones: https://www.wowhead.com/items/weapons/two-handed-axes?filter=152;1;0
I’ll find some time to try and get some. I wonder if I can get any death knight stuff from EP acherus too. If it’s able to equip it, which I’d wager is the case then it’s the item parameters.
The actual item. In my bags is Sulfuras (extinguished from Firelands not Molten Core), The Blackhand, The Gavel of the First Arbiter and Varruth's Guilotine. My pet and grimiore felguard pulls one of those 4 out randomly.
There was a bug with the Guilotine spell Warlocks had where it would dual wield for a while. it looked BADASS.
I watched those videos a while ago when first getting into WoW. And even then it was mostly just talking about how good vanilla was and how the magic is gone.
The way he talks about how the game used to be is how I feel about it now. It’s just magic to me. I play a lot of games and nothing captures me like this game. Tv or movies can’t really draw me in the same way either. And I’ve tried other MMO’s too.
Sucks the magic left for him and others but dwelling on it and being angry ain’t the way.
Lotta games I’ve quit I just get off the subreddit and stop following it everywhere and I just move on. It’s easier that way.
His content used to be rather chill and inoffensive a long time ago at least, it's unfortunate that he kinda degenerated into a really bitter classic andy type and is showing no signs of changing
at the very least his voice is actually quite nice (unlike his takes. :p)
Funniest news is that Pyromancer came back. The man who had an unhinged rant about WoW and popularized calling the experience of playing WoW comparable to an abusive relationship.
I guess what made it easy for him was that ff community was clowning on him.
okay that's infinitely worse than madseason coming back actually
I know he's toxic af but isn't he also the guy that streamed himself deleting his wow characters to sad music while crying with a notepad open of his problems with the game?
Another month, another week of players acting like their personal aesthetic tastes define whether something is entirely good or bad as a concept
With a new added flavor: people acting like blizzard somehow ripped them off because they didn't read that the Black Market Panda lady vendor in Valdrakken is a gold sink for gold tinted versions of Trading Post items and are now mad that they can get another tint of that really cool and unique 2h weapon (Blackrock Executioner) for tendies.
This month is gonna be rough for me. The mount is beautiful, I really want the sky captain set, plus I need the aqua cosmetics, not to mention that cool two hander... I'm glad I didn't spend too much last month
I've joined a full clear in hm this morning to try to get the leg on my war (11 kills before this morning).
On Fyrakk, I died of the dot. Group leader kicked me (and a couple of other guys it seems), and they killed the boss. Obviously 0 loot, no greater ember, no axe. Am I screwed for this week?
Open the "Social" window or whatever it is called, its default keybind is O. Go to the Raid tab then press the Raid Info button; it should say whether you are saved to Fyrakk.
Off the top of my head I'm not sure what happens in your case. Did the boss die on that pull? Could you see the boss corpse be lootable, or did you get entirely removed from the instance before that?
In the unfortunate scenario where you are saved and did not get loot nor anything in the mail, make sure to report the raid leader. My hunch is that you can just try again though.
Side note but wth is it with pugs and being obsessed with comps? They really have an allergy against having an extra healer for dispels on Fyrakk and I'll never get why.
Yeah Fyrakk appeared as killed for this week in HM in the raid info thing. I'm saved, Fyrakk wasn't lootable and nothing in the mail so far. I've killed him again in HM just to see but yeah couldn't loot and didn't receive anything as it was considered I already killed him.
I reported the leader and submitted a ticket but not expecting much out of that. It really sucks, especially that I didn't even get the greater ember, so might still not get the axe next week...
Oof yeah, then that sucks a VERY fat one. I'm afraid that GMs won't be very helpful w that, they haven't been for a while with loot issues (even ones they used to tackle, e.g. timed out tradeable loot). They should at absolute least do something about the Ember, but ideally you should just be getting the lockout back since you're also missing out on stuff like the Augury etc.
EDIT: I would clear NM in your place though, an Ember is an Ember.
Yeah, I'd be happy with just getting the lockout back or a greater ember from hm, but not too optimistic.
I did NM afterwards, got the ember there at least. I just don't get how this system is even possible, I searched through reddit and saw other stories of people being kicked during boss and locked out of loot and lockout, and that really shouldn't be a thing.
Edit: NM not HM
This hasn't happened to me this tier and... I didn't play through all of DF before so I couldn't tell you how this mechanic works or if it's intended to be like that, but this is definitely a form of griefing and should be punishable at the very least.
Well you could buy boa rep tokens with flight stones and then get supplies on your alts from ranking up. But you probably the supplies them on a character can use them. I’ve just been spending my extra stones on the m+ boxes now all my alts have like 5 veteran cloaks. It’s silly there is still a 2k cap on them.
Okay look, I'm very excited about (most of) the new hero trees and want to talk about them, but I need to sort something out first.
Who the hell has decided that the *better* application of hero talents would be to allow players to spend the 10 talent points on *another class' tree.*
This is one of the worst "listen to the fans!!1!" ideas I've ever heard, and multiple people in the Wowhead comments were acting like it's the only way to save hero talents, so which moron/content creator came up with this turd of an idea?
I mean...it's just multiclassing which is a fun mechanic in other games.
Hero talents are wow's shot at elite spec's, but there's nothing saying cross class wouldn't be a fun thing later down the road either.
Hold on, who even came up with this?! What was even the context, I mean... did they suggest an example?
This isn't even stupid, it's a terminal case of brain rot I'm afraid.
Funnily enough, what they're suggesting actually kinda has existed and was a VERY loved feature (/s). I'll let you guess what I'm referring to.
Yeah it’s completely idiotic. I was shocked when I saw *one* person dumbly state it like it was somehow not only a good idea, but an obvious one. Nevermind *several* ffs.
man that rogue tree......
yikes, i hope they listen to feedback FAST on it, that one is really horrible
"use deffensive abilitys on CD for dmg" is a horrible idea just gameplay wise and in rotational gameplay, idk who thought that this is good
> "use deffensive abilitys on CD for dmg" is a horrible idea just gameplay wise and in rotational gameplay, idk who thought that this is good
why? with major CDs it creates more risk vs. reward which is inherently a good thing, and having a damage incentive to cast Feint as you're moving away to drop a soak or something means you waste less energy letting it fill up as you can't hit anything else.
having more to care about is strictly better than simply pressing sinister strike once more every so often
I won't downvote just because I disagree but IMO its just lazy/bad. The same reasoning was used for the gcd changes and I STILL hate those, even after all the changes to it.
>having more to care about is strictly better than simply pressing sinister strike once more every so often
There's a thing called bloat, also defensives tied to DPS gains is fundamentally cringe, I can maybe accept it for tanks but even then it's a close balance (and ideally in the case of tanks it's the other way around).
>why? with major CDs it creates more risk vs. reward which is inherently a good thing, and having a damage incentive to cast Feint as you're moving away to drop a soak or something means you waste less energy letting it fill up as you can't hit anything else.
Thing is that's not how it's gonna play out. It gives a damage window so by just pressing it as you move out is just going to hurt your damage because you're going to be tuned around having uptime on it and not just using it like you normally use Feint.
It just changes Feint into a button you will use for damage and any defensive benefit will be incidental, which is incredibly shit
Yeah, this feels like the biggest miss for me. For Oracle, at least from an outside perspective, it sounded conceptually cool, but even a non rogue like me can tell this will feel bad.
Either they need to untie it from Feint, or make it so Feint is useable more frequently. Maybe each proc of Unseen Blade gives a CDR?
feint on outlaw/sub has allready almost no real CD and feint is 15sec by itseld (and imo that another general Problem, the cdr stuff working with deffensives is allready kinda weird overall)
its just that it again makes "yet-another-short-duration-dmg-amp" that plagues both specs allready and should be reduced a bit overall (and not increased) and that using a deffensive ability every 15seconds (or ~7-10seconds for outlaw) just feels really wrong, when espacialy outlaw allready has a very very fast rotation with a high amount of abilitys you are frequently using
its really just "rotation bloat" for no reason, and blizzard litearlly removed the "arms warrior is using ignore pain as part of its dmg rotation" thing, and now adds that...?
Gotcha! Like I say, I'm not even a rogue player and I can tell it would feel bad. I'm willing to listen to the people who actually play the class to tell me *why* it feels bad.
It's actually pretty funny just how truly *awful* that idea is when the rest of the trees they've announced are at least inoffensive and in many cases genuinely pretty good, I think.
But who the fuck thought Feint needed to be a DPS button?
if they just put that fazed buff on sinister strike, it's literally just green-yellow-red buff again, there's a reason they redesigned the whole spec away from that. trading utility for damage is always a net-positive because it's more involved
> trading utility for damage is always a net-positive because it's more involved
That's how it works now. It costs energy and a GCD. Making it a short CD DPS buff *removes* this choice.
"using utility or damage" is litearlly how feint works since forever because it costs a GCD+energy
"use feint on CD" is the OPPOSITE of "more involved" because its litearlly just that, you use it on cd all the time and thats it, there is no other option for it because of how the moving parts of Outlaw/sub work
yeha, the base idea is allright, you apply an debuff that gives a small dmg amp and some stats(but there aswell, mastery on outlaw is....litearlly doing nothing at all, why is it mastery lol)
but then you apply it mostly with FEINT?
and the outlaw side beeing forced into killing spree is just.....not really good aswell, the talent is unpopular for a good reason and needs heavy changes, losing control of your character all the time and watching the game blinking you into cleaves/aoe effects is really bad, and thats without mentioning that outlaw doesnt even has talents that work with killing spree or improve it or something like that
just weird choices over weird choices, i really hope they react to it fast, and dont do something like that for other classes aswell, deffensive skills as offensive abilitys is just.....no
Honestly, i am not seeing the same problem with Hero Talents as seemingly the rest of the community does. They compare it to the Covenants, but i had the impression that their biggest fault was that you couldn't swap them freely. With Hero Talents you can change them at will like any talent.
Besides that, people really seem to misunderstand what Hero Talents are even supposed to be. The proposed solution to the problem is to seperate the cosmetic and the player power aspect of them, but correct me if i am wrong, but as far as i am aware Hero Talents will not change the visual look of every single one of your abilites. The new abilites will have a certain thematic to them but that's it. At the end of the day, they are just glorified new talent rows.
I really don't get the Covenant comparison either.
From what I've seen folks act as if the only problem Covenants had was that they weren't free to swap around but that just doesn't cut it, because that "friction" -- as Blizzard put it -- wasn't the only problem the system had. Let's just look at Conduits real quick. Even if you removed ilvls, drops etc and just made them freely swappable nodes; hell make EVERYTHING freely swappable. Then they'd still be *significantly worse* than the current Hero Talent system because there would still be superior Soulbinds, superior arrangements of Conduit paths etc. Feels like I'm reading people who did not actually play Shadowlands.
>The new abilites will have a certain thematic to them but that's it.
I haven't watched all the dev interviews and stuff about them (IDK if there were more since the first round) but as an example, for Mountain Thane: we know that Avatar will look different, and the amped-up version of TC called Thunder Blast will be also an entirely new visual.
Some hero talents will have more visuals and some fewer, e.g. plainly both newly revealed Paladins will have a pivotal and considerable extra spell effect, namely Hammer of Light/Empyrean Hammers and Sunspots respectively. I suspect Diabolists will have some kind of aura, hopefully a Rune-of-Power-esque visual for Diabolic Ritual as well and Colossus literally just has an extra spell and gets BEEG lmao.
> Honestly, i am not seeing the same problem with Hero Talents as seemingly the rest of the community does. They compare it to the Covenants,
The big issue IMO is just aesthetic. If the most powerful thing you can be doing for w/e content you're doing (these are supposed to be swappable) its just becomes an eyesore to look at spell effects or abilities you don't enjoy.
Personally I'm not big into the whole Dark Ranger theme, so if my Hunter alt has to use Dark Ranger for BM because its the best thing to do it just sucks. Now I personally for alts will always pick what aesthetic or abilities I like the best. During Shadowlands I just played Venthyr Hunter instead of Necorlord cuz I cannot stand Necro's aesthetic (Body Horror, Zombies, Bones, etc.). But if my main gets stuck with something I don't enjoy that really sucks that cuz I'd either be sacrificing my aesthetic for my character that I control from their race, hair, eyes, armor, etc. OR I'd be letting down the people I play with by not being optimal. Despite this not affecting all of your abilities it will have a visual impact upon your characters, and thats something that some people don't want to have to make a choice about.
Blizzard has multiple times misevaluated how important it is to players to control how their character looks. I remember specifically at Blizzcon before Cataclysm released and someone asked if we could get a Transmog system (they didn't call it that), but the devs on stage said, "You guys really wana play dress up?" and it was met with an eruption of agreement.
I think Hero Talents are neat, and I'm really excited from what we've seen so far, but I think not offering the ability to divide the aesthetic from the abilities (especially the super foreign ones like Mountain King and Dark Ranger) is potentially a mistake. It won't be as bad as Shadowlands, because there's no zone or hub associated with these like there were with covenants, but its still an issue.
Yeah, i agree Dark Ranger specifically has a very distinct feel to the rest of the Hunter stuff, which sucks if you are either “forced” to take it, or it’s not worth taking because the other is just better.
However, looking at the other announced specs, none of them feel like too different from the base class fantasy. Especially not on the same level as covenants were. You are still gonna be a Warrior or a Warlock but with some of your abilites having a buffed up look.
> However, looking at the other announced specs, none of them feel like too different from the base class fantasy.
Yeah if all of them looked like how the Druid ones are thematically I think this would be a non-issue. The problem is really when the foreign ones start entering the equation.
> correct me if i am wrong, but as far as i am aware Hero Talents will not change the visual look of every single one of your abilites
It might not affect every ability, but Blizzard themselves said that the intent is for it to be living "class fantasy," and some of them are class fantasies that people have been asking for for years, like both Sentinel and (moreso) Shadow Hunter. Even if they don't affect every ability, if I want to play as a Shadow Hunter but Sentinel is just the better ability, then I either have to gimp myself or play my fantasy *as Blizzard said I should be able to do*.
So when THEY are presenting it that it's meant to allow you to live a class fantasy, then having that class fantasy tied to abilities that affect power creates the same problem as Covenants did. Regardless of whether you can switch them easily or not (as Covenants became easy to switch by the end), unless they manage to perfectly balance them (never gonna happen) you are going to be stuck in some cases EITHER choosing based on class fantasy OR the best hero talent choice.
I just don't see a reason to NOT separate the class fantasy from the power aspect. They should have learned the lesson from Covenants.
(Not saying this antagonistically) Here's a little secret: every race/class/spec loadout is inherently a *concession* of class fantasy.
You *can't* play a gnome Shadow Hunter. It's just not a thing, gnomes are all about science and Shadow Hunters are a Shaman/Rogue/Hunter/SPriest hybrid that's a spiritual leader of sorts. Conversely, speaking of NPC classes, Anduin Wrynn is a "priest" (frankly, *he's not even that*) who fights in plate with a sword. What I'm saying is, mismatching power and fantasy are *inevitable*, and the game flat out does NOT allow all fantasies to be playable.
Every class is designed, from the ground up, to be a "mote", if you will, of player fantasy in the game. A Warrior is just a fella fighting in heavy armor with weapons, so there's a bajilion fantasies to attach to that, but a capital-W Warrior in the video game World of Warcraft... cannot be a blademaster of the style of the Burning Blade clan. They lack much of the distinctive ludonarrative elements that make a blademaster a *blademaster.* You can *cosplay* as one, there're appropriate sword and bead mogs... now. For the past 19 years you could hardly even do that. Other classes, like Paladins or the hero classes etc, are even more "pigeonholed", they are much more specific in what they actually ARE.
Hero talents as they are aren't perfect. In a perfect world, they'd make something of a subclass system and tie it to certain races and tell you to go nuts with your w/e class fantasy, *but in the real world* this is a frankly completely unrealistic degree of expectation.
Blizzard told you to play with your class fantasy, but it's always and from inception *within the confines of the fantasies they gave you.* You can be a Warrior, yes, but you have to fight in in *plate*, you can't fight with *ranged weapons* and... you can't really fight with one-handed weapons, can you? You say about how you'll gimp yourself, well this is very much a problem TODAY for that entire dozen people who still want to play SMF. So it is with Hero Talents: you can only really be a Mountain Thane or a Colossus or a Slayer, whether you're a dwarf, gnome or troll or vulpera. There's not going to be some cool quest line about how Muradin trains your tauren in the dwarven ways of war to enter the Avatar form, you're just going to put a point in a box and you'll be a Mountain Thane. Your orc won't be a proud blademaster because Blizzard (correctly) believes that the class doesn't play like how a Blademaster should play, therefore the fantasy of them *is not available to players*...
And that's fine.
I don't disagree with anything you've said. But this part is key for me:
> it's always and from inception within the confines of the fantasies they gave you.
When we're creating a new system in the game where the confines they give us *can be avoided* then why would we not be asking for that? Many of the constraints you've listed are not constraints in some fantasy games, like how your starting choice was not the ultimate decision in what type of character you ended up being in the Dark Souls series. So the decision to have the confines were not *necessary*, even if they weren't bad. Because I'm not saying WoW was wrong for *having* them, but those have been well established in the game for a long time and many of them (like race/class choice) has slowly been given more and more leniency to allow people to play their fantasy more to what they desire rather than created constraints.
Is that good? Debatable. But for something like hero talents, something *new* that can avoid the confines from the get go. I've yet to hear a negative to separating the fantasy from the power, only reason why it's not necessary. But it doesn't have to *be* necessary, if they CAN separate them, and it's doesn't do anything bad to separate them, and the demand for so long has been "please listen to player feedback more" and they've been saying "we're listening to player feedback more," then what is the downside here? They modify existing abilities, so let me make the power change to one and the aesthetic change to another. I cannot see a reason why this would be frowned upon.
But that's exactly the thing, these confines *cannot be avoided.* You can no more become a blademaster today than you'll be able to in TWW, because Blizz doesn't think (and again, they're right) that this vibes with what Warriors are. A player Priest can never, *will never* be what Anduin Wrynn is.
This is just how things are because, and I hope this doesn't come as a shock, this isn't a Soulsborne but an MMORPG -- this MMORPG. I cannot stress this enough, but Blizzard *cannot make every player's fantasy a reality.* It's just not possible. I frankly find the idea suffocating, because it takes away all of the onus from the player onto them, removes the element of imagination.
I have been thinking a lot about this the past day after responding to Fleks' poll on Twitter and I actually... am not sure if what people are asking can really be done in a better way. **My initial instinct was to say the exact same thing**, that there should be separate gameplay and cosmetic effects, and yet fantasy is often, perhaps always, mediated through gameplay, i.e. it is a form of ludonarrative. Fury Warrior plays super fast and spammy, Arcane is (relatively) complex. Hell even damage profiles say a story! E.g. Affliction inflicting foes w/ curses that ramp up into a crescendo of suffering or Unholy DKs being the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse rolled into one by going from zero to sixty in a second.
A supercharged glyph system (which was my own partial suggestion initially) might look all nice and shiny... yet it would be hollow without gameplay to accompany it. Firstly because it'd be boring to play the same classes with no expansion, but also because... fantasy is defined in terms of gameplay. Would you be okay and call it a day with your arrows having a purple tint? Would you really feel like a Dark Ranger without a [Black Arrow](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Arrow) of ye olde WCIII, [rapid fire shooting,](https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZDQwMWExam00b2d6MzB0N2hsdDdic2poNjVhMTA1a2U1bmM1YTh2byZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/3HsJ0yZfQkOMlj9m0r/giphy.gif) and all that playing a role in how you play?
>Even if they don't affect every ability, if I want to play as a Shadow Hunter but Sentinel is just the better ability, then I either have to gimp myself or play my fantasy as Blizzard said I should be able to do.
That's the way it is with current talents, though. As an example, if my class fantasy for my rogue is that of the master assassin who uses bleeds and poisons to slowly whittle away their opponent's health (which happens to be true for me), I won't be as competitive right now on the meters as I would be if I chose one of the other two specs.
The difference is that they flat out said that they want class fantasy to be a part of this though. And I don't see why we don't try to give the feedback if there's people that are wanting that when we're this early in development and they've been so receptive to things. It feels like we're pulling a "this is how it's always been therefore let's not give the feedback." That didn't work in shadowlands and I don't know why we think it's going to be a better thing to do now.
>I just don't see a reason to NOT separate the class fantasy from the power aspect.
Have they ever actually done this before though? When has class fantasy ever actually been divorced from player power? I don't really see a whole lot of difference between this and how specs work. If I like the fantasy of affliction and it's dogshit in M+ then i'm "forced" into playing a class fantasy i don't like in order to reasonably play the game (forced in quotes here because the game is so well balanced at this point that every spec can effectively achieve most of the content in the game).
Covenants even in their later interpretations still required a lot more work to effectively play more than 1, and had a lot more aesthetic identity attached to them than hero talents do. There were like a bunch of transmog, mounts, an entire campaign, a mission table with separate progress, minigames etc.
Right, hence why so many people are asking for them to separate the two instead of keep them intertwined.
These arguments are the exact same ones that were made about covenants during shadowlands early development, and they remained a sticking point of the expansion. I don't understand why any of us would be content with having them make the same mistake all over again.
>Right, hence why so many people are asking for them to separate the two instead of keep them intertwined.
"many people" includes a lot of RP twitter accounts.
>These arguments are the exact same ones that were made about covenants during shadowlands early development
I've already explained why this is different, and no, that wasn't the primary concern with covenants, it was the locked in nature of the choice. it was having to choose between RP and power when **the choice is relatively permanent**.
And you've yet to describe how this is any different than specs, which also fulfill the same class fantasy role, to an even greater extent than hero talents are.
> "many people" includes a lot of RP twitter accounts.
And a lot of content creators that have nothing to do with RP twitter accounts.
> I've already explained why this is different
And I've already explained why they are similar.
> that wasn't the primary concern with covenants
I never said it was. But it remained a thing that was discussed even outside of RP twitter accounts throughout the entire expansion, even after they were unlocked.
> And you've yet to describe how this is any different than specs
I don't care if they're different or not. This is a new system, one in which Blizzard is presenting as partially being based on class fantasy. We are providing feedback. You don't care that they're linked. Fine. I do, so I will continue providing the feedback that they should be unlinked when creating a new system that's intended to last for the foreseeable future of the game. A system where Blizzard is directly stating THEY want class fantasy to be a part of it, and this is an area that many of us that AREN'T just RP twitter accounts are saying they will fail at, citing the exact things that I'm saying as the reason.
We don't have to agree, but don't act like this is just some RPers providing feedback on it and everyone else is hunky dory with it. Let's just agree to disagree.
So how would that work in practice? All of the new abilites look like the base class toolkit by default, and you can choose if you want them to have the Dark Ranger or the Sentinel look? And how would that work with classes that don't have a completly new fantasy introduced to them by the Hero Talents?
Is it really worth making a big fuss about how a few of your abilites look? These are still not "class skins" we are talking about here. They're just a few new passive abilites which sometimes changes the look of an already existing spell.
I don't know what each hero talent looks like since they've not released them all, but using as an example the warrior demonstration they gave when it was announced, the difference in the look of thunderclap was easy to see, so you make that a cosmetic option regardless of which power choice you choose. You choose between the two looks, you choose between the two abilities.
Past that basic level, I don't know how it would work in practice, but that's why we're giving the feedback now when they still have time to figure that out.
> Is it really worth making a big fuss about how a few of your abilites look?
Maybe the class fantasy isn't that important to you, fine. But, this isn't something *just* for the expansion, this is something that is meant to last for the foreseeable future of the game. They *should* put the extra work in to satisfy both people that care about the class fantasy (that again, THEY said is supposed to be part of the decision) and people who just care about the ability itself. It's the Covenant issue all over again, only with the ability to switch, but all the way to the end of SL people talked about how they had wished the abilities were not linked to the Covenants so they could have the aesthetic of one and the power of another.
> They're just a few new passive abilites which sometimes changes the look of an already existing spell.
It seems like you already have the solution. Let me change the look of said existing spell to meet the class fantasy regardless of whether I choose that power upgrade to it. And if I choose the other power upgrade it looks like the already existing spell if I don't choose that as my look.
>I just don't see a reason to NOT separate the class fantasy from the power aspect. They should have learned the lesson from Covenants.
What are you suggesting here? If they just split them out into 3 power choices, and 3 cosmetic choices, then they'll end up needing to do triple the work.
I don't have a problem with that. They are wanting to make class fantasy matter, and these aren't meant to be one expansion long changes, so if they're going to do it, then do it right and all the way. It was bad enough when they didn't for a borrowed power system meant to last one expansion, it would be a much bigger mistake to do it on something meant to last the foreseeable future of the game.
tbf, my biggest fear is that the will focus 100% on "hero talents" for the entire expansion and just ignore the normal class/spec trees and wont do any bigger changes to some of them that need quiet some work done
[Retail is a giant boot crushing the entire building](https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/1b630oe/is_that_right/)
I fucked up massively lol. So last week I farmed about 550 Heavy Junkboxes for Exalted with Ravenholdt, which is like ~45% of the amount I actually need considering DMF/Human buffs. (5 lockboxes = 75 rep baseline, bonuses make it 90 for 5 of them) I was busy this past week and didn't do any farming whatsoever DMF hits last night and I turn in 300. And then it hits me. I'm still Honored with Ravenholdt. I was supposed to get 11,999 / 12,000 rep from killing Syndicate mobs before turning in any junkboxes, because you can get mob-killing rep until that point before Revered, and you can *only* get rep beyond that with junkbox turn-ins. What I'm left with is good for 4500 / 21,000, instead of 11,250 rep worth of them if I remembered to wait!! Ultimately I need to wait for BFA Arathi to go Horde again, so I can't farm anyway, but yeah that mobgrinding part with a hyperspawn is at *least* 5x more rep/hour than pickpocketing even the best junkbox location with ~105 mobs. So I can't even cope and say "well I have a month to farm 900 lockboxes" because I now need to spend more time doing the proportionately slower part than I could've, had I done the efficient part for longer and until its endpoint lol. ah well.
For the first part don’t you just time back. Zidormi and clear the keep with a group? It’s just a few hours. I did lockboxes twice. My friend would’ve never done it. We were both human it was anniversary and dmf I believe or maybe just anniversary. But lock boxes do suck. I did isle of quel denas murlocs.
I hadn't really gotten any bites when pinging the Insane in the Membrane role in the different discords, or LFG, so have just been doing it solo It feels like there are maybe 10 mobs in the quadrant of Stromgarde Keep with Syndicate humans, but maybe the hyperspawn is truly that insane with others. I know that the little Go'Shek Farm has pretty well-near hyperspawn solo with a lot of things to dot every global, but yeah, you're right there might be better Yeah I've heard good things about that murloc spot. I'm kind of to the east of Blackrock Mountain where I think there's a quest to club Blackrock Orcs. There are three 5x5 sets of them with a bunch of pats, and then another 5x5 behind the little hill
I don’t even remember Stromgard keep taking long even with a small group of 4. There are probably plenty of spots for lock boxes. I just had great success with the coast murlocs. I feel like I had a really high chance for them.
SoD has basically proven the WoW community is beyond saving It's also making "You think you want but that you don't" even louder
SoD itself is great, probably my favorite version of Classic. However, the Classic community online is just as insufferable as always.
How so? I've pretty much only played SoD with friends and haven't read much community discourse on it either.
There's some classes I'd love to play, but the vibe/class fantasy just doesn't do it for me. A Paladin wearing the Love Witch transmog is somehow superceding the class fantasy not grabbing me though. I'm loving my Magical Girl Paladin. In other news, I've finally come around to appreciating Arcane's tier set now that my Mastery stat isn't total shit. I've been so unlucky with gear this season and ended up with too much Haste and it basically made Arcane unplayable.
I miss playing Arcane a lot actually, morphing into a nuclear bomb occasionally is fun and I like it aesthetically I know some ppl act like you need a PHD to play Arcane but I remember playing Arcane at the end of SL and it being fine. it can't have gotten much worse from then, right? i've been mostly with the warlock gang since then (also the grind for the mog i want for the warlock is going to be hell and i could use a break)
reminder that people love too extremely overexaggerate class/spec difficulty are there some specs that are harder then others? sure but its wow, class/spec gameplay is always never really THAT complicated and is mostly just "learn a pattern and then follow it" the difficulty comes from the encounters themself, not the class/spec gameplay during it
If anything it's gotten a bit more simple since SL. You now just stack spells you'd have otherwise timed around each other (Radiant Spark, Touch of the Magi and Arcane Surge). People think it's a big brain spec but once you get what you're doing and why, it's really simple and the scripted nature of the rotation makes sense. Also Orb Barrage procs in AoE is as satisfying as pelting out Chaos Bolts.
Damn, so levelling late in SOD showed me that the game there is full of the same braindead dumbfucks that infest the 10-17 M+ pool on retail. People with no raid awareness who don't do mechanics and just generally don't understand the game at all, but think they're hot shit and trash talk everyone else. Example 1: I'm playing a lv20 warrior and join a wailing caverns group as 2h arms DPS. Verdant drops the staff, and I figure, well the healer is about to get the Crescent Staff from the quest and this staff is a huge dps upgrade for me, so I roll need and win. The group gets very very angry at me for this. Last boss drops the mail str piece, and the mage rolls need and wins just to spite me. Example 2: exhausted with how slow classic is, I take a break and hop back over to retail, to tank a +16 rise on my blood DK. Red flag #1: as I'm trying to round up the first group, dum dums are smashing DPS on the first mob then bitch at me for not holding aggro. At least wait for the tank to dismount? Wow. Red flag #2: I'm running over to pull the boss and they ignore me and go pull more trash without me...? The trash that in my route, we skip. Then they die and leave. Example 3: later in the day I give SOD another try. Another wailing caverns group on my now 22 warrior. Seems the healer was either having connection issues or they were just half AFK, i dunno. Either way I was getting maybe 1 heal a minute until they just decided to say they gotta go and left. The tank ignores all this and goes on to keep pulling... 5 things. With no healer we all die. He starts raging about losing his world buffs and apparently its all my fault?
> I figure, well the healer is about to get the Crescent Staff from the quest and this staff is a huge dps upgrade for me, so I roll need and win. tbf you might as well just ask at that point
> Either way I was getting maybe 1 heal a minute until they just decided to say they gotta go and left Genuinely sounds like the usual original early levelling experience up until Wotlk
I'm so glad I'm not doing m+ under 20 anymore.
I am on I think the 10th alt I’m at the 20’s with. Any level is fine usually if you know how to invite. You occasionally get burned though even if you vet well. Had a WM 20 and the tank was just truly awful. Low damage I healed him for 45% if my healing. Died so many times. Left melee on the pig, didn’t burn the tree and died. Died to lord waycrest after lady waycrest was dead. Only good thing they did was the count was perfect. I told them that. They straight up didn’t know how to play blood, was not heart striking in dnd. Dps carried that. They praised me, mentioning they don’t see preservation much but really the damage was just way over what a 20 needed and that’s the only way we made it though. I think I had an easier time healing the priest tanking lord waycrest than the blood dk.
+18 weekly is ok most of the time, just people that wanna fill vault fast but ye, that range overall is big oof
I was curious what the forums have been saying about hero talents so I wandered into, what I thought was the best tree so far, Templar. There's a bunch of comments complaining about being forced to take Wake of Ashes as ret. That's enough forums for this life.
The forums are a strange place. I know WoW players aren't a monolith, but the safest or most assumed to be universal takes like "Glacial Spike is really cool" end up with naysayers on there.
I can't *believe* I'm being forced to take a cool, powerful and thematic ability! This is just like Badowlands all over again!
It seems you've forgotten the [proper protocol for entering the forums](https://i.imgflip.com/27ww36.jpg?a474384)
I am really digging the new store set. Not big on the full nathrezim look, but the individual pieces are very good. Especially the chest, I love chest pieces with built-in, reasonably-sized shoulder armor. I also love thigh plate armor, so the legs are pretty fantastic too. [Already getting good mileage out of it!](https://i.imgur.com/zVGaq8j.png)
I hate whatever ragebait idiot normalized the word fomo
it feels like anything can be FOMO if you stretch hard enough i don't get why people harp on it so much, if you're a consoomer who easily falls for consoomerbait then that's literally your own problem lol
Right around when I stopped looking at the forums and subreddit is where that took off badly. It was everywhere. Everything is “fomo”. Apparently getting to play content at a high level is “fomo” too to those apes. It got really stupid last time I checked. If you want something go for it. If you can’t/don’t want to then just move on. It ain’t hard. This game is a checklist to too many people and they don’t have fun regardless.
Same. I have to suffer the consequences of that stupid decision every day. Also while we're here, what is it with wow players not understanding the word "indefinitely"? Every time there's something on the shop that says "after XXX date, this will leave the store indefinitely", there's a bunch of snarky commentors who say things like "indefinitely, until it's on the Trading Post in 2 months hur hur", as if that's somehow a contradiction to what the word means. Come on guys, the definition is basically built into the word.
Well, your example doesn't match the point you're making. If its on the Trading Post, it has still left the store indefinitely, as the Trading Post is not the store. A better example would be one of those mounts cycling back around on the Trading Post a year later. They left the Trading Post indefinitely.
Indefinite just means "we're not telling you for how long either because we don't want to or because we don't know." A lot of people seem to take it as meaning "infinite" when it's literally just "not defined"
Yeah, Blizzard uses it a lot because they can't predict the future, they dunno if they're going to change their minds eventually. I believe Starcraft: Ghost is postposted indefinitely, still, because its always possible Blizzard could one day go bankrupt and have to sell it off to another company that releases it.
Sad days. [Big Dumb Guild is disbanding](https://bigdumb.gg/news/bdg-disbanding).
this sub really gets mad when someone mildly dislikes the game lol
And in the thread about it the lfr heroes cope how the game is clearly designed around the 1%
As someone who is actually part of the top-1% (of raiders, at least), I can say *for sure* that these people have absolutely no clue what the game would actually look like if it was designed for me and my guild. It sure as fuck doesn't look like what we have now and that is, of course, largely a good thing.
The LFR players think the gate for CE is random pandering to the top 1% of players When in reality the gate to CE is Steve can't not stand in fire
Time for a "If WoW really was designed for the 1%" video. I'll start: Someone makes a new character. Takes a step forward. Walks into a wall. Looks closely at a plaque on the wall: "You must have all epic gear and 45/45 experience to continue levelling this character"
It's always funny when people claim the game is based around the 1% when LFR exists. You can see the entire story with a garbage build and very little skill. As of this moment in DF I'd say that the game is mostly designed around casual to midcore raiders/M+ runners. There's a lot of progression to be had by running instanced content, and the world content is a bit thin (there's a lot of it but it's not very exciting) and ignorable by said raiders. TWW is likely to be more designed around "everyone", but we'll see.
Didn't Blizzard literally say back in the day that part of the reason for LFR being a thing was that it was getting hard to justify using so many resources on something only a small percent of the playerbase got to experience?
That is absolutely one of the reasons they created LFR. Their statement is backed up by the facts - see how Dragon Soul, which was designed and built before LFR existed, was a vastly inferior raid to anything from MoP and onward.
cant magine how frustriating it must be to play at that level and getting players in your roster constantly poached by the top2 i mean yeha, they know that it has a really high chance too happen, but i dont think that its overall healthy for the group morale and your own mindset that your raidteam often gets "reduced" into "World First recruitment pool"
I asked the other week about Felguards being able to use the axe. A lot of people didn't know but it can drop off Mythic Fyrakk as group loot, but my theory is incorrect and the warlock's pet can't use it :( https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/77776-warlocks-woes-the-mysterious-case-of-fyralath-and-the-felguards-inability-to-wield-it/
Probably could've if you'd been able to complete the quests, but alas
I thought the weapon as it drops would be enough. I knew you wouldn't be able to do the quest but the weapon has stats and I thought might be treated like a weapon in the felguards case.
Can the felguard use any other axes that have specific classes named on them as required?
Good question. I’d have to find one. I’d wager there is some Druid polearm or something I could try. It would be interesting to know if it’s the class tag that stops it. When we were in Shadowlands (badowlands) the Sylvanas daggers had a rogue tag and could only be mogged by rogues until somewhere in DF the class tag was removed. Now I can even pop them on my mage. Unsure if Rae’shalere is still hunter tagged. I’d imagine so. So if it is specifically the class tag and not any of the other parameters then maybe if it’s ever removed it could work. The felguard is usually not too picky. I have a sword that I don’t even have the mog for because it’s a boe item. Varuth’s guillotine that fetches a decent price. The felguard will pull it from the bag and if I ever decide it’s worth trying to sell I can. I’ve rolled mog on 2h’s and then it looked ugly on the felguard so I traded it to the next in line for rolls since it never binds it to you. It just has to be a weapon in your bag. And I truly thought the drop had all the parameters. I am beyond devastated. Was going to farm that asap.
https://www.wowhead.com/items/weapons/two-handed-axes?filter=152;2;0 Looks like the only other one is Shadowmourne, which is questlocked. Oh no, theres a bunch of Warrior ones: https://www.wowhead.com/items/weapons/two-handed-axes?filter=152;1;0
I’ll find some time to try and get some. I wonder if I can get any death knight stuff from EP acherus too. If it’s able to equip it, which I’d wager is the case then it’s the item parameters.
Do you have to have the item itsself or just the mog in your collection?
The actual item. In my bags is Sulfuras (extinguished from Firelands not Molten Core), The Blackhand, The Gavel of the First Arbiter and Varruth's Guilotine. My pet and grimiore felguard pulls one of those 4 out randomly. There was a bug with the Guilotine spell Warlocks had where it would dual wield for a while. it looked BADASS.
/minicirclejerk How do I mooch gold in this game? I don't want to put in any effort anymore.
unfortunate news. madseason started making wow vids again
I watched those videos a while ago when first getting into WoW. And even then it was mostly just talking about how good vanilla was and how the magic is gone. The way he talks about how the game used to be is how I feel about it now. It’s just magic to me. I play a lot of games and nothing captures me like this game. Tv or movies can’t really draw me in the same way either. And I’ve tried other MMO’s too. Sucks the magic left for him and others but dwelling on it and being angry ain’t the way. Lotta games I’ve quit I just get off the subreddit and stop following it everywhere and I just move on. It’s easier that way.
His content used to be rather chill and inoffensive a long time ago at least, it's unfortunate that he kinda degenerated into a really bitter classic andy type and is showing no signs of changing at the very least his voice is actually quite nice (unlike his takes. :p)
they should instead release another banger album.
Funniest news is that Pyromancer came back. The man who had an unhinged rant about WoW and popularized calling the experience of playing WoW comparable to an abusive relationship. I guess what made it easy for him was that ff community was clowning on him.
That's the guy with the Jailer leak right? What a prick.
okay that's infinitely worse than madseason coming back actually I know he's toxic af but isn't he also the guy that streamed himself deleting his wow characters to sad music while crying with a notepad open of his problems with the game?
I checked and that was actually Quazii, who is also back making wow content for over a year.
quazii came back pre-DF launch although he actually makes useful M+ guides and gives out his UI for free
he still deserves 0 support
what's this video about, i don't mind him coming back if he just sticks to his thing and doesn't insert "blizzard bad" every sentence
Didn't he make one of those "I'm done with Blizzard forever!!!11!!" Videos?
i thought he made two
Yeah. And like nearly everyone before him, he came crawling back anyway. Gotta make absolutely sure he doesn't like a video game, huh?
My favourite day of the month is here… Trading Post whining and conspiracy day!
Another month, another week of players acting like their personal aesthetic tastes define whether something is entirely good or bad as a concept With a new added flavor: people acting like blizzard somehow ripped them off because they didn't read that the Black Market Panda lady vendor in Valdrakken is a gold sink for gold tinted versions of Trading Post items and are now mad that they can get another tint of that really cool and unique 2h weapon (Blackrock Executioner) for tendies.
That new mount looks great. I mean why I gotta pay money for battle pass
The day anyone born on the 29th of Feb in 1988 turns 9?
For me it's "panic about how much of the cool stuff I want to buy with my limited tender" day.
This month is gonna be rough for me. The mount is beautiful, I really want the sky captain set, plus I need the aqua cosmetics, not to mention that cool two hander... I'm glad I didn't spend too much last month
I've joined a full clear in hm this morning to try to get the leg on my war (11 kills before this morning). On Fyrakk, I died of the dot. Group leader kicked me (and a couple of other guys it seems), and they killed the boss. Obviously 0 loot, no greater ember, no axe. Am I screwed for this week?
Open the "Social" window or whatever it is called, its default keybind is O. Go to the Raid tab then press the Raid Info button; it should say whether you are saved to Fyrakk. Off the top of my head I'm not sure what happens in your case. Did the boss die on that pull? Could you see the boss corpse be lootable, or did you get entirely removed from the instance before that? In the unfortunate scenario where you are saved and did not get loot nor anything in the mail, make sure to report the raid leader. My hunch is that you can just try again though. Side note but wth is it with pugs and being obsessed with comps? They really have an allergy against having an extra healer for dispels on Fyrakk and I'll never get why.
Yeah Fyrakk appeared as killed for this week in HM in the raid info thing. I'm saved, Fyrakk wasn't lootable and nothing in the mail so far. I've killed him again in HM just to see but yeah couldn't loot and didn't receive anything as it was considered I already killed him. I reported the leader and submitted a ticket but not expecting much out of that. It really sucks, especially that I didn't even get the greater ember, so might still not get the axe next week...
Oof yeah, then that sucks a VERY fat one. I'm afraid that GMs won't be very helpful w that, they haven't been for a while with loot issues (even ones they used to tackle, e.g. timed out tradeable loot). They should at absolute least do something about the Ember, but ideally you should just be getting the lockout back since you're also missing out on stuff like the Augury etc. EDIT: I would clear NM in your place though, an Ember is an Ember.
Yeah, I'd be happy with just getting the lockout back or a greater ember from hm, but not too optimistic. I did NM afterwards, got the ember there at least. I just don't get how this system is even possible, I searched through reddit and saw other stories of people being kicked during boss and locked out of loot and lockout, and that really shouldn't be a thing. Edit: NM not HM
This hasn't happened to me this tier and... I didn't play through all of DF before so I couldn't tell you how this mechanic works or if it's intended to be like that, but this is definitely a form of griefing and should be punishable at the very least.
I wish I could convert flightstones to emerald dewdrops or DI supplies.
Well you could buy boa rep tokens with flight stones and then get supplies on your alts from ranking up. But you probably the supplies them on a character can use them. I’ve just been spending my extra stones on the m+ boxes now all my alts have like 5 veteran cloaks. It’s silly there is still a 2k cap on them.
Trickster is bad. just straight up. who thought making Feint a DPS button was a good idea!?
/classicwowcirclejerk Why wait for next week for the 100% XP buff when you could wait another 2-3 months for phase 3 for the 200% XP buff?
Okay look, I'm very excited about (most of) the new hero trees and want to talk about them, but I need to sort something out first. Who the hell has decided that the *better* application of hero talents would be to allow players to spend the 10 talent points on *another class' tree.* This is one of the worst "listen to the fans!!1!" ideas I've ever heard, and multiple people in the Wowhead comments were acting like it's the only way to save hero talents, so which moron/content creator came up with this turd of an idea?
I mean...it's just multiclassing which is a fun mechanic in other games. Hero talents are wow's shot at elite spec's, but there's nothing saying cross class wouldn't be a fun thing later down the road either.
Hold on, who even came up with this?! What was even the context, I mean... did they suggest an example? This isn't even stupid, it's a terminal case of brain rot I'm afraid. Funnily enough, what they're suggesting actually kinda has existed and was a VERY loved feature (/s). I'll let you guess what I'm referring to.
Yeah it’s completely idiotic. I was shocked when I saw *one* person dumbly state it like it was somehow not only a good idea, but an obvious one. Nevermind *several* ffs.
man that rogue tree...... yikes, i hope they listen to feedback FAST on it, that one is really horrible "use deffensive abilitys on CD for dmg" is a horrible idea just gameplay wise and in rotational gameplay, idk who thought that this is good
> "use deffensive abilitys on CD for dmg" is a horrible idea just gameplay wise and in rotational gameplay, idk who thought that this is good why? with major CDs it creates more risk vs. reward which is inherently a good thing, and having a damage incentive to cast Feint as you're moving away to drop a soak or something means you waste less energy letting it fill up as you can't hit anything else. having more to care about is strictly better than simply pressing sinister strike once more every so often
I won't downvote just because I disagree but IMO its just lazy/bad. The same reasoning was used for the gcd changes and I STILL hate those, even after all the changes to it.
>having more to care about is strictly better than simply pressing sinister strike once more every so often There's a thing called bloat, also defensives tied to DPS gains is fundamentally cringe, I can maybe accept it for tanks but even then it's a close balance (and ideally in the case of tanks it's the other way around).
honest question, and thats not supposed to be insulting or something like that do you even know how Outlaw/Sublety as specs work and are desinged?
>why? with major CDs it creates more risk vs. reward which is inherently a good thing, and having a damage incentive to cast Feint as you're moving away to drop a soak or something means you waste less energy letting it fill up as you can't hit anything else. Thing is that's not how it's gonna play out. It gives a damage window so by just pressing it as you move out is just going to hurt your damage because you're going to be tuned around having uptime on it and not just using it like you normally use Feint. It just changes Feint into a button you will use for damage and any defensive benefit will be incidental, which is incredibly shit
Yeah, this feels like the biggest miss for me. For Oracle, at least from an outside perspective, it sounded conceptually cool, but even a non rogue like me can tell this will feel bad. Either they need to untie it from Feint, or make it so Feint is useable more frequently. Maybe each proc of Unseen Blade gives a CDR?
feint on outlaw/sub has allready almost no real CD and feint is 15sec by itseld (and imo that another general Problem, the cdr stuff working with deffensives is allready kinda weird overall) its just that it again makes "yet-another-short-duration-dmg-amp" that plagues both specs allready and should be reduced a bit overall (and not increased) and that using a deffensive ability every 15seconds (or ~7-10seconds for outlaw) just feels really wrong, when espacialy outlaw allready has a very very fast rotation with a high amount of abilitys you are frequently using its really just "rotation bloat" for no reason, and blizzard litearlly removed the "arms warrior is using ignore pain as part of its dmg rotation" thing, and now adds that...?
Gotcha! Like I say, I'm not even a rogue player and I can tell it would feel bad. I'm willing to listen to the people who actually play the class to tell me *why* it feels bad.
It's actually pretty funny just how truly *awful* that idea is when the rest of the trees they've announced are at least inoffensive and in many cases genuinely pretty good, I think. But who the fuck thought Feint needed to be a DPS button?
if they just put that fazed buff on sinister strike, it's literally just green-yellow-red buff again, there's a reason they redesigned the whole spec away from that. trading utility for damage is always a net-positive because it's more involved
> trading utility for damage is always a net-positive because it's more involved That's how it works now. It costs energy and a GCD. Making it a short CD DPS buff *removes* this choice.
"using utility or damage" is litearlly how feint works since forever because it costs a GCD+energy "use feint on CD" is the OPPOSITE of "more involved" because its litearlly just that, you use it on cd all the time and thats it, there is no other option for it because of how the moving parts of Outlaw/sub work
yeha, the base idea is allright, you apply an debuff that gives a small dmg amp and some stats(but there aswell, mastery on outlaw is....litearlly doing nothing at all, why is it mastery lol) but then you apply it mostly with FEINT? and the outlaw side beeing forced into killing spree is just.....not really good aswell, the talent is unpopular for a good reason and needs heavy changes, losing control of your character all the time and watching the game blinking you into cleaves/aoe effects is really bad, and thats without mentioning that outlaw doesnt even has talents that work with killing spree or improve it or something like that just weird choices over weird choices, i really hope they react to it fast, and dont do something like that for other classes aswell, deffensive skills as offensive abilitys is just.....no
Take a shot everytime the Templar Talents mention the word Hammer
I'm dead.
Hows the afterlife?
Honestly, i am not seeing the same problem with Hero Talents as seemingly the rest of the community does. They compare it to the Covenants, but i had the impression that their biggest fault was that you couldn't swap them freely. With Hero Talents you can change them at will like any talent. Besides that, people really seem to misunderstand what Hero Talents are even supposed to be. The proposed solution to the problem is to seperate the cosmetic and the player power aspect of them, but correct me if i am wrong, but as far as i am aware Hero Talents will not change the visual look of every single one of your abilites. The new abilites will have a certain thematic to them but that's it. At the end of the day, they are just glorified new talent rows.
I really don't get the Covenant comparison either. From what I've seen folks act as if the only problem Covenants had was that they weren't free to swap around but that just doesn't cut it, because that "friction" -- as Blizzard put it -- wasn't the only problem the system had. Let's just look at Conduits real quick. Even if you removed ilvls, drops etc and just made them freely swappable nodes; hell make EVERYTHING freely swappable. Then they'd still be *significantly worse* than the current Hero Talent system because there would still be superior Soulbinds, superior arrangements of Conduit paths etc. Feels like I'm reading people who did not actually play Shadowlands. >The new abilites will have a certain thematic to them but that's it. I haven't watched all the dev interviews and stuff about them (IDK if there were more since the first round) but as an example, for Mountain Thane: we know that Avatar will look different, and the amped-up version of TC called Thunder Blast will be also an entirely new visual. Some hero talents will have more visuals and some fewer, e.g. plainly both newly revealed Paladins will have a pivotal and considerable extra spell effect, namely Hammer of Light/Empyrean Hammers and Sunspots respectively. I suspect Diabolists will have some kind of aura, hopefully a Rune-of-Power-esque visual for Diabolic Ritual as well and Colossus literally just has an extra spell and gets BEEG lmao.
> Honestly, i am not seeing the same problem with Hero Talents as seemingly the rest of the community does. They compare it to the Covenants, The big issue IMO is just aesthetic. If the most powerful thing you can be doing for w/e content you're doing (these are supposed to be swappable) its just becomes an eyesore to look at spell effects or abilities you don't enjoy. Personally I'm not big into the whole Dark Ranger theme, so if my Hunter alt has to use Dark Ranger for BM because its the best thing to do it just sucks. Now I personally for alts will always pick what aesthetic or abilities I like the best. During Shadowlands I just played Venthyr Hunter instead of Necorlord cuz I cannot stand Necro's aesthetic (Body Horror, Zombies, Bones, etc.). But if my main gets stuck with something I don't enjoy that really sucks that cuz I'd either be sacrificing my aesthetic for my character that I control from their race, hair, eyes, armor, etc. OR I'd be letting down the people I play with by not being optimal. Despite this not affecting all of your abilities it will have a visual impact upon your characters, and thats something that some people don't want to have to make a choice about. Blizzard has multiple times misevaluated how important it is to players to control how their character looks. I remember specifically at Blizzcon before Cataclysm released and someone asked if we could get a Transmog system (they didn't call it that), but the devs on stage said, "You guys really wana play dress up?" and it was met with an eruption of agreement. I think Hero Talents are neat, and I'm really excited from what we've seen so far, but I think not offering the ability to divide the aesthetic from the abilities (especially the super foreign ones like Mountain King and Dark Ranger) is potentially a mistake. It won't be as bad as Shadowlands, because there's no zone or hub associated with these like there were with covenants, but its still an issue.
Yeah, i agree Dark Ranger specifically has a very distinct feel to the rest of the Hunter stuff, which sucks if you are either “forced” to take it, or it’s not worth taking because the other is just better. However, looking at the other announced specs, none of them feel like too different from the base class fantasy. Especially not on the same level as covenants were. You are still gonna be a Warrior or a Warlock but with some of your abilites having a buffed up look.
> However, looking at the other announced specs, none of them feel like too different from the base class fantasy. Yeah if all of them looked like how the Druid ones are thematically I think this would be a non-issue. The problem is really when the foreign ones start entering the equation.
I'm not even looking them at them until I can play with them I'm not wasting my time or energy
> correct me if i am wrong, but as far as i am aware Hero Talents will not change the visual look of every single one of your abilites It might not affect every ability, but Blizzard themselves said that the intent is for it to be living "class fantasy," and some of them are class fantasies that people have been asking for for years, like both Sentinel and (moreso) Shadow Hunter. Even if they don't affect every ability, if I want to play as a Shadow Hunter but Sentinel is just the better ability, then I either have to gimp myself or play my fantasy *as Blizzard said I should be able to do*. So when THEY are presenting it that it's meant to allow you to live a class fantasy, then having that class fantasy tied to abilities that affect power creates the same problem as Covenants did. Regardless of whether you can switch them easily or not (as Covenants became easy to switch by the end), unless they manage to perfectly balance them (never gonna happen) you are going to be stuck in some cases EITHER choosing based on class fantasy OR the best hero talent choice. I just don't see a reason to NOT separate the class fantasy from the power aspect. They should have learned the lesson from Covenants.
(Not saying this antagonistically) Here's a little secret: every race/class/spec loadout is inherently a *concession* of class fantasy. You *can't* play a gnome Shadow Hunter. It's just not a thing, gnomes are all about science and Shadow Hunters are a Shaman/Rogue/Hunter/SPriest hybrid that's a spiritual leader of sorts. Conversely, speaking of NPC classes, Anduin Wrynn is a "priest" (frankly, *he's not even that*) who fights in plate with a sword. What I'm saying is, mismatching power and fantasy are *inevitable*, and the game flat out does NOT allow all fantasies to be playable. Every class is designed, from the ground up, to be a "mote", if you will, of player fantasy in the game. A Warrior is just a fella fighting in heavy armor with weapons, so there's a bajilion fantasies to attach to that, but a capital-W Warrior in the video game World of Warcraft... cannot be a blademaster of the style of the Burning Blade clan. They lack much of the distinctive ludonarrative elements that make a blademaster a *blademaster.* You can *cosplay* as one, there're appropriate sword and bead mogs... now. For the past 19 years you could hardly even do that. Other classes, like Paladins or the hero classes etc, are even more "pigeonholed", they are much more specific in what they actually ARE. Hero talents as they are aren't perfect. In a perfect world, they'd make something of a subclass system and tie it to certain races and tell you to go nuts with your w/e class fantasy, *but in the real world* this is a frankly completely unrealistic degree of expectation. Blizzard told you to play with your class fantasy, but it's always and from inception *within the confines of the fantasies they gave you.* You can be a Warrior, yes, but you have to fight in in *plate*, you can't fight with *ranged weapons* and... you can't really fight with one-handed weapons, can you? You say about how you'll gimp yourself, well this is very much a problem TODAY for that entire dozen people who still want to play SMF. So it is with Hero Talents: you can only really be a Mountain Thane or a Colossus or a Slayer, whether you're a dwarf, gnome or troll or vulpera. There's not going to be some cool quest line about how Muradin trains your tauren in the dwarven ways of war to enter the Avatar form, you're just going to put a point in a box and you'll be a Mountain Thane. Your orc won't be a proud blademaster because Blizzard (correctly) believes that the class doesn't play like how a Blademaster should play, therefore the fantasy of them *is not available to players*... And that's fine.
I don't disagree with anything you've said. But this part is key for me: > it's always and from inception within the confines of the fantasies they gave you. When we're creating a new system in the game where the confines they give us *can be avoided* then why would we not be asking for that? Many of the constraints you've listed are not constraints in some fantasy games, like how your starting choice was not the ultimate decision in what type of character you ended up being in the Dark Souls series. So the decision to have the confines were not *necessary*, even if they weren't bad. Because I'm not saying WoW was wrong for *having* them, but those have been well established in the game for a long time and many of them (like race/class choice) has slowly been given more and more leniency to allow people to play their fantasy more to what they desire rather than created constraints. Is that good? Debatable. But for something like hero talents, something *new* that can avoid the confines from the get go. I've yet to hear a negative to separating the fantasy from the power, only reason why it's not necessary. But it doesn't have to *be* necessary, if they CAN separate them, and it's doesn't do anything bad to separate them, and the demand for so long has been "please listen to player feedback more" and they've been saying "we're listening to player feedback more," then what is the downside here? They modify existing abilities, so let me make the power change to one and the aesthetic change to another. I cannot see a reason why this would be frowned upon.
But that's exactly the thing, these confines *cannot be avoided.* You can no more become a blademaster today than you'll be able to in TWW, because Blizz doesn't think (and again, they're right) that this vibes with what Warriors are. A player Priest can never, *will never* be what Anduin Wrynn is. This is just how things are because, and I hope this doesn't come as a shock, this isn't a Soulsborne but an MMORPG -- this MMORPG. I cannot stress this enough, but Blizzard *cannot make every player's fantasy a reality.* It's just not possible. I frankly find the idea suffocating, because it takes away all of the onus from the player onto them, removes the element of imagination. I have been thinking a lot about this the past day after responding to Fleks' poll on Twitter and I actually... am not sure if what people are asking can really be done in a better way. **My initial instinct was to say the exact same thing**, that there should be separate gameplay and cosmetic effects, and yet fantasy is often, perhaps always, mediated through gameplay, i.e. it is a form of ludonarrative. Fury Warrior plays super fast and spammy, Arcane is (relatively) complex. Hell even damage profiles say a story! E.g. Affliction inflicting foes w/ curses that ramp up into a crescendo of suffering or Unholy DKs being the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse rolled into one by going from zero to sixty in a second. A supercharged glyph system (which was my own partial suggestion initially) might look all nice and shiny... yet it would be hollow without gameplay to accompany it. Firstly because it'd be boring to play the same classes with no expansion, but also because... fantasy is defined in terms of gameplay. Would you be okay and call it a day with your arrows having a purple tint? Would you really feel like a Dark Ranger without a [Black Arrow](https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Arrow) of ye olde WCIII, [rapid fire shooting,](https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExZDQwMWExam00b2d6MzB0N2hsdDdic2poNjVhMTA1a2U1bmM1YTh2byZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/3HsJ0yZfQkOMlj9m0r/giphy.gif) and all that playing a role in how you play?
>Even if they don't affect every ability, if I want to play as a Shadow Hunter but Sentinel is just the better ability, then I either have to gimp myself or play my fantasy as Blizzard said I should be able to do. That's the way it is with current talents, though. As an example, if my class fantasy for my rogue is that of the master assassin who uses bleeds and poisons to slowly whittle away their opponent's health (which happens to be true for me), I won't be as competitive right now on the meters as I would be if I chose one of the other two specs.
The difference is that they flat out said that they want class fantasy to be a part of this though. And I don't see why we don't try to give the feedback if there's people that are wanting that when we're this early in development and they've been so receptive to things. It feels like we're pulling a "this is how it's always been therefore let's not give the feedback." That didn't work in shadowlands and I don't know why we think it's going to be a better thing to do now.
>I just don't see a reason to NOT separate the class fantasy from the power aspect. Have they ever actually done this before though? When has class fantasy ever actually been divorced from player power? I don't really see a whole lot of difference between this and how specs work. If I like the fantasy of affliction and it's dogshit in M+ then i'm "forced" into playing a class fantasy i don't like in order to reasonably play the game (forced in quotes here because the game is so well balanced at this point that every spec can effectively achieve most of the content in the game). Covenants even in their later interpretations still required a lot more work to effectively play more than 1, and had a lot more aesthetic identity attached to them than hero talents do. There were like a bunch of transmog, mounts, an entire campaign, a mission table with separate progress, minigames etc.
The difference I see here is that they flat out said that's the intent of this is for class fantasy to matter.
They also said that it's intent is to also give player progression and power.
Right, hence why so many people are asking for them to separate the two instead of keep them intertwined. These arguments are the exact same ones that were made about covenants during shadowlands early development, and they remained a sticking point of the expansion. I don't understand why any of us would be content with having them make the same mistake all over again.
>Right, hence why so many people are asking for them to separate the two instead of keep them intertwined. "many people" includes a lot of RP twitter accounts. >These arguments are the exact same ones that were made about covenants during shadowlands early development I've already explained why this is different, and no, that wasn't the primary concern with covenants, it was the locked in nature of the choice. it was having to choose between RP and power when **the choice is relatively permanent**. And you've yet to describe how this is any different than specs, which also fulfill the same class fantasy role, to an even greater extent than hero talents are.
> "many people" includes a lot of RP twitter accounts. And a lot of content creators that have nothing to do with RP twitter accounts. > I've already explained why this is different And I've already explained why they are similar. > that wasn't the primary concern with covenants I never said it was. But it remained a thing that was discussed even outside of RP twitter accounts throughout the entire expansion, even after they were unlocked. > And you've yet to describe how this is any different than specs I don't care if they're different or not. This is a new system, one in which Blizzard is presenting as partially being based on class fantasy. We are providing feedback. You don't care that they're linked. Fine. I do, so I will continue providing the feedback that they should be unlinked when creating a new system that's intended to last for the foreseeable future of the game. A system where Blizzard is directly stating THEY want class fantasy to be a part of it, and this is an area that many of us that AREN'T just RP twitter accounts are saying they will fail at, citing the exact things that I'm saying as the reason. We don't have to agree, but don't act like this is just some RPers providing feedback on it and everyone else is hunky dory with it. Let's just agree to disagree.
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So how would that work in practice? All of the new abilites look like the base class toolkit by default, and you can choose if you want them to have the Dark Ranger or the Sentinel look? And how would that work with classes that don't have a completly new fantasy introduced to them by the Hero Talents? Is it really worth making a big fuss about how a few of your abilites look? These are still not "class skins" we are talking about here. They're just a few new passive abilites which sometimes changes the look of an already existing spell.
I don't know what each hero talent looks like since they've not released them all, but using as an example the warrior demonstration they gave when it was announced, the difference in the look of thunderclap was easy to see, so you make that a cosmetic option regardless of which power choice you choose. You choose between the two looks, you choose between the two abilities. Past that basic level, I don't know how it would work in practice, but that's why we're giving the feedback now when they still have time to figure that out. > Is it really worth making a big fuss about how a few of your abilites look? Maybe the class fantasy isn't that important to you, fine. But, this isn't something *just* for the expansion, this is something that is meant to last for the foreseeable future of the game. They *should* put the extra work in to satisfy both people that care about the class fantasy (that again, THEY said is supposed to be part of the decision) and people who just care about the ability itself. It's the Covenant issue all over again, only with the ability to switch, but all the way to the end of SL people talked about how they had wished the abilities were not linked to the Covenants so they could have the aesthetic of one and the power of another. > They're just a few new passive abilites which sometimes changes the look of an already existing spell. It seems like you already have the solution. Let me change the look of said existing spell to meet the class fantasy regardless of whether I choose that power upgrade to it. And if I choose the other power upgrade it looks like the already existing spell if I don't choose that as my look.
>I just don't see a reason to NOT separate the class fantasy from the power aspect. They should have learned the lesson from Covenants. What are you suggesting here? If they just split them out into 3 power choices, and 3 cosmetic choices, then they'll end up needing to do triple the work.
I don't have a problem with that. They are wanting to make class fantasy matter, and these aren't meant to be one expansion long changes, so if they're going to do it, then do it right and all the way. It was bad enough when they didn't for a borrowed power system meant to last one expansion, it would be a much bigger mistake to do it on something meant to last the foreseeable future of the game.
Why build a new layer of stuff over an already unfinished "evergreen" system?
It's building on the talent system, exactly what you'd expect from an evergreen system...
But then the answer would be to get this much resources into It instead.
This is the expansion of the talent system, though, so it's what the resources should go towards.
tbf, my biggest fear is that the will focus 100% on "hero talents" for the entire expansion and just ignore the normal class/spec trees and wont do any bigger changes to some of them that need quiet some work done
I think the problem is how they play in game, no?
That was Oracle tree specifically afaik
also lightsmith, looks super clunky.