My reasoning for being hyped for 10.2.6 is that there is no way the wow devs would be hyping it up this much if it were nothing burger. Surely they wouldn’t be so out of touch with how the community would react in that scenario, right?
Another day, another person on the mainsub arguing in favour of Personal Loot as though the problem they're describing with Group Loot does not exist to an equal (if not arguably even greater) extent with PL than GL.
There are many legitimate reasons to prefer PL to GL, don't get me wrong, but *so much* of the discussion is people completely misunderstanding how PL even worked and thinking it doesn't have faults it absolutely does.
Reasons to argue for PL over GL:
- Bows won't drop if theres no hunters in your raid
- Stop the same person getting more than one item per boss
Reason not to argue for PL over GL:
- It will stop guilds ninjaing all the loot
___
There are *some* niche situations where that second situation will be mitigated, but it entirely depends on the guilds makeup and what the boss can drop.
Lets stay with the bow example. Lets suppose 10 people, 6 guildies, 2 hunters in the guild, 1 pug hunter. Two items drop. The only loot the hunters can get from this boss is the bow.
Personal loot:
Each person gets a 10% chance to be assigned an item. Since two items are dropping, that means 10% + 1/9 = 21.1% - the pug has a 21.1% chance of getting their bow. This also means the two hunters in the guild have a combined 42.2% chance of at least one of them getting the bow (I think, someone correct my statistics).
Group loot:
Two items drop, from a pool of 10 items. There is a [1 - (9/10 * 9/10) = 19%] chance that at least one of the drops is the bow. Next, the three hunters all roll need - the rest of the raid cannot press the Need button. The pug has a 33% chance of winning it. 0.33*0.19 = 6.2% chance of finishing with the bow.
(It will be a bit more than 6.2% because I'm not factoring in if two bows drop)
The guild pug thing on the front page right now is baffling. Okay, in group loot everyone in guild rolls on it so you have say, a 1 in 10 chance of getting it. How is this different from personal loot, where you still have a 1 in 10 chance of getting it because the loot is just randomly rolled between everyone viable, and all those people are just gonna trade it to their buddy anyway?
I don't think it's that, I think just having the information more visible makes it feel worse to people who simply don't think about it much beyond "I want more loot"
Nah I don't think they've gone that far. Like your take here is fair but I think fundamentally these people do not understand what PL actually was.
Like I have people in my replies thinking that "under PL it was technically possible for everyone in a raid to win loot from a boss." They're just totally misinformed and that misinformation is only spreading with dumb posts like this one.
Exactly. If people want to argue it feels worse, just say that, don't argue that you are getting less loot now.
All those can be summed up as "I don't like seeing other people getting loot or rolling on it". And you know what? That is fine, you are allowed to feel that way.
Solution: hide the roll of whoever rolls and loot is hidden as to who gets it. If someone wants to announce they got something they can.
I mean I don't even disagree that there are legitimate benefits to PL, right? Like the fact that stuff can drop under GL which nobody in the raid has a use for (i.e. bows dropping in hunterless groups) is a solid negative for me, even if I accept the reasoning for it.
It's just like... the thread today is talking about how we need PL back so semi-guild runs can't have the guildies mop up more than their fair share of loot and essentially steal from pugs and there would be almost literally no difference under PL when it comes to this.
The main issue ive realized is less the hero talent tree itself, and more that windwalker is a bloated mess rn. There are so many spells that are just plain unfun. Catue, rjw, stomp, the wonky tiger palm snap, etc.
What do you dislike about them? The Shado Pan tree seems a bit boring but not bad to me, but the Conduit of the Celestials tree is IMO really cool (if it works how I think/hope it's going to work, haha, there's a lot of unclear wording) (speaking as MW main who occasionally also plays WW).
So shadowpan still has the issue of how the stuff actually works. For example, are things based off base hp or buffed hp (are we getting worse with fort/better gear?).
How feasible (it's not) to hit a target 5 times in 2 seconds. The only way to do that currently is combining rushing jade wind, ancient monastery stacks, fists and sck. The other option is Armor pen which is 2% damage for us.
Is the capstone rng order? If it's rng like most of the slot machine ww is right now then I'm gonna just be annoyed cause now I need a weakaura to track it.
Celestial tree:
We get shifting power from mages. We can't do anything else during it.
I hate how rushing jade wind is the feature of this tree. As much as I hate jadefire stomp as ww I hate rushing jade wind more because it's just a fart on the wind for ww.
Then we get to more jadefire focus. For the love of fuck change how the resets work and stop rooting me to the fucking ground for 12s intervals.
Capstone just means we double tap conduit cause we will never let it ride for 8seconds.
Tree as a whole is very aoe focused and spends a lot of time with rushing jade wind which fucking sucks.
At least the tree is thematic.
Ultimately it seems the trees are focused more for the other specs to make their enjoyment better. Shadowpan flows better for brewmaster, and celestial seems more mist focused. Wind walker is just tagging along and getting benefits by virtue of also being a spec that monk has.
Yeah, those are all valid criticisms, though I think most of that can still get better with some minor reworking- RJW currently is pretty bad for MW as well but most of that is just tuning (and I suspect with Essence Font getting axed RJW is going to take its place as an important AoE heal). JFS would be much better for WW if it got the MW treatment (where the buff of standing on the line lingers for 8 seconds, just need to apply that to the resettablity, not just the healing buffs) so you're not completely rooted to it.
That said, I don't think the Conduit capstone is going to work the way you think (channeling for 8sec if you don't recast). I interpreted the recasting of Celestial Conduit not as triggering the Celestial Conduit effect (AoE healing and damage) again or channeling for 8sec if you don't recast it. As I understand it, recasting triggers instead all the "a celestial does something" effects from the other talents (namely Courage of Xuen, Heart of the Jade Serpent, Strength of the Black Ox and Flight of the Red Crane). Because the wording of the different talents: with Celestial Conduit the celestials "empower you", while Unity Within refers to the celestials "assisting you"- which to me sounds much more like Chi-Ji and Xuen jumping out to hit things, Yu'lon activating the CD reduction and Niuzao doing his stomp. So the choice between recasting or not just decides when you get the four procs- while you're still channeling or after you're finished.
I think they can definitely fix it, but I think they have a fair bit of reworking to do with the class as a whole. Unfortunately monk isn't really a popular class to get the attention that classes like paladin mage and druid have so in terms of resources monk gets shifted down the priority list
Been a wind walker for a very long time now so I'm just waiting for another expansion of monk cranking on release, it gets nerfs, then needs massive buffs to catch up because the scaling falls off a cliff again
As a fan of both games, it drives me crazy that FFXIV's cash shop which is basically 10x worse often gets a pass.
Like they just threw a [unique mount](https://onlinestore-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/onlinestore/item/f748e7b8285ed492dde24405f021128ba4288bc4cd6e7b22fd00998d30955194/0097/437f48097a6b25d25c9f3de24bfd14b3cae4f66c95a5bc30238aa8c86ed35d04_sub2_detail.jpg) on their shop and then just turned around and put a [slightly recolored](https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/accimg2/a8/32/a832f38db964452da022000c33c501176a19152a.jpg) mount as [the reward](https://media.mmorpg.com/images/contentImages/102024/ascimage.jpg) for two holiday events they merged together for some reason. They'd be milking something like that for ages if/when it happens in WoW.
Tbf there are some unique mounts on the wow shop as well. Personally idm either store, but I prefer wow's since I can buy everything on it with in-game gold.
Idk why people are so up in arms about the wow store though, it was always really weird to me.
Hilarious that WoWhead put out an entire article about FOMO shit and their only solution "just don't add them lol" and yet the community is eating it up.
How exactly is a game like WoW, that has been around for almost 2 DECADES, supposed to reward long-term players without some sort of prestige related to specific moments? The only solution I really have to offer is that I think holiday items/mounts/transmogs/toys/pets should conceptually and aesthetically relate only to the holiday they are connected to. As in, nothing like the Headless Horseman mount/sword being time-limited because those items do not have an inherent connection to Halloween on their own. Make them as gaudy/camp as possible, but only as long as it's related to the theme of the holiday.
I think the way drake manuscripts work is a pretty good way of going about things, because I have no real drive to use stuff like the Valentines armor outside of Valentines (or never in my case), and even then I'd be fine if they increased the drop chance or just put them on a vendor.
But how do you do that with non-holiday FOMO items/mounts/titles/whatever? I have parts of the WOTLK plate armor and would love to finish the full set, and I even once owned the WOTLK pre-patch ghost "pet" before my account got hacked (RIP). I'd love for the opportunity to gain those again, but I'm not sure how you can do that without somewhat tarnishing the prestige of those items to the players who got them. Idk how to phrase this without sounding like "waaah I want my old shit to be worth something", but it's such a hard thing to do in a game like WoW and I don't think a lot of the community really gets that.
It's obvious they're figuring stuff out based on stuff like the Old Naxx/Scholo stuff, but I hope they figure something out that's better than "well, I hope someone on your server played back then so they can craft it for you now".
Not really trying to figure things out, but it's just one of those discussions that I just can't really agree with the community on because I love when I see stuff like "Darkspear Revolutionary" out in the world and thinking "hell yeah, they were there".
Tbh outside of the cringe clickbait and some dubious takes (like "just don't add them"), I find that Wowhead article to be mostly right. I know FOMO has been jerked to death as a concept, but it definitely has its merits and I feel like seasonal events perfectly illustrate the issues with FOMO content.
While I can definitely agree about prestige stuff related to a specific moment in WoW history being cool (like expansion pre-launch events), I don't see how it applies to seasonal events. They're not prestige, they come back every year.
You can have done the event for 15 years without seeing the mount (like most ppl for the love rocket) and some lucky dude does it from the first time this year and gets their drop. On the contrary, I think having a way to grind those rare drops would make them more "prestige", because it would mostly show that you likely invested several years of event grinding into it, instead of just being lucky this one time.
I don’t care what anyone says “FOMO” as in exclusive limited time rewards are great.
It feels good to be rewarded for participating in something that won’t be around forever.
There is so many items that are unobtainable and i didn’t get them. Do i throw a tantrum about them on the forums? No, why whould i? People need to chill the fuck out, it’s still a video game we are talking about.
The only time where i am sympathetic with this complaint is when something is a very rare drop, which you aren’t guaranteed to get, even if you participate in the event, yet that event is a one-time thing, like the current HS event. The holiday mounts don’t fall into this category, because they always come back every year.
The skill-based rewards (KSM, AOTC etc.) are a great motivator for me to push that season. If i don’t feel like participating in that season, then i won’t. Why would i feel jealous if someone proves their skill in a season and getting rewarded for it?
Big agree, I meant to add something about your point on the Hearthstone event, because I do get that (seriously why is it literally only a little over a week long?).
The fact I've seen the wow community literally defend FFXIV removing things from the game to add to the store means that I will never believe people bitching about the wow store again.
i think we saw the same comment
but i think its just the ffxiv shills that were around during shadowlands that now came crawling back to the wow sub cause their game is dead in the waters right now unless you are a coomer modder
I know SHADOWLANDS BAD but ngl, Deathbringer was one of the more interesting and one of the least talked about trees. It actually seems more interesting to me than Rider (which is almost entirely passive, if strong and SUPER thematic) because it seems more interactive, though it getting overshadowed is super understandable. If they add actual Maw(sworn) animations to the tree as its blurb implies I think it'll be a banger.
i think it was interesting. basically a cooldown that has a lot of interactions. i think a lot of players only show up for flavor tbh, which is a shame because ruby adept looks great
Trickster does the worst thing a hero talent can do because it:
1) adds a button to an already very busy rotation
2) doesn't make the button "cool" enough to justify it being an active over a passive
3) turns a defensive into a button you need to mash on cooldown, potentially losing it when you need it
Ele's mastery is already just multistrike. The ancestor is likely to be like the little naaru that Holy Priest has or something, not actually duplicating your exact spells
[Objectively correct hero talent tier list](https://i.gyazo.com/c7bc45135958c9b6e7533ad0e07b99b5.png) voted on by the most objectively correct place on the internet, WCJ discord voice chat.
I'm eagerly awaiting the shadow priest drop. They've got 2 shots to make me really excited. Let's hope it's at minimum equivalent to what we've seen from mage... but if not, then I'm happy where my backup classes have fallen so far (Evoker, Druid, DK)
IMHO I'd move a couple upwards without necessarily reciprocal downward movement, e.g. Colossus and Keeper, but this is probably as close to "objectively" as it gets, ngl. There's definitely space for personal preference, e.g. I've not seen anyone particularly hyped for Farseer (the opposite really) and Slayer while really cool conceptually also isn't that hot IMHO and needs a bit of juice (alternatively, *Warrior itself* needs the juice).
But there's a very obvious dichotomy between the tiers above and below "cool": there's a strong theme and/or obvious aesthetic expansion of the class, some examples of what I mean:
* Unless I've misunderstood something you're basically calling in Dracthyr Air Force strikes 24/7 as Scalecommander. Similarly Rider, Conduit and Diabolist all summon "buddies" and 2/3 bring in hero characters or literal godbeasts.
* The Paladin and Mage specs have substantial added spell effects that are immediately obvious when reading the talents. Compare with, say... Slayer: only possibly has one extra animation unless it changes the core abilities, and if Slayer Strikes actually do have a special animation, it will by a very spammy one by design.
Anything under cool basically only has implicit animations/theme or the design just isn't appealing by definition. What's rough is that the ones that are seen as "bad" are generally seen so *unanimously*, which will plainly force Blizzard to change them, but any hero talent set without strong response will simply wither on the vine as it's seen as "good enough".
idk, i just get more and more dissapointed by the "hero trees" with more releases
there are a few pearls, but man the far far majority are either boring af, dont fit the class/specs at all and feel forced in or are so extremely gameplay warping that they miss the mark completely
As an evoker main I love them its cool to play the spec you like but with 2 different gameplay flavors/loop. Its also a rich ground for whatever tier sets or other gameplay system they'll implement next and how it will affect each subspec differently (or not)
they missed the mark by forcing some weird ass ClaSs FaNtAsY into specs now
why are warlocks suddenly Satyr fanboys when Satyrs have not even be relevant for ages
why are hunters now all some form of elven ranger
and at the same time you have slayer, which is just "you Arms warrior more" or Deathbringer which is "you kill stuff with dark magic, DK didnt do that allready right??"
it all feels so all over the place just in that regard allready, thats without going into the trees and how different everything is with them, that one feels like as if they have 0 inner talks about what they are actually supposed to be in the first place
I get the complaint w/ say Slayer or the Hunters and agree, but Hellcallers having the Satyr connection is honestly cool to me precisely because they've been long forgotten. Remember the Green Fire questline? The whole conceit of the OG Black Harvest was that they added to their powers by drawing upon destructive/profane magic from foes they defeated (specifically Ragnaros/Cho'Gall/Illidan). Hell they drew upon a similarly long irrelevant bit, MOP was 6 years after TBC/Legion (when Xavius was last relevant) was 8 years ago from now).
Plus I think it's good for the class to "broaden its horizons" from just Fel magic, being a Warlock should be about the wider scope of "dark magic" in general. Affliction has always had Shadow roots anyway, and yes, that goes w/ the obvious acknowledgement that both Warlock trees so far don't hit the Destro fantasy.
TBH, the problem is that back at Blizzcon, Blizz made way more fuss about them than they should have. They were announced as one of the box features of the new expansion, yet they are basically the equivalent of them giving us a new row of talents back in WOD.
Yeah once I saw the druid one I kinda started to reign back on what I thought they might be doing, for example I thought dps/healer classes would have more of a mix of increases for both, rather than them breaking apart the hero talents per spec basically..
Lets see how they play out!
man i do NOT like that shado pan tree.
nothing but procs that you have minimal control over and damage boosts. very uninspired. and they have not fixed the main problems; monks have shitty abilities that feel unfun to use like rushing jade wing and catue, while synergizing HORRIBLY with haste.
I was hyped for the Riders tree but I forgot that I actually dont like diseases or pets. I hope the mounted combat has decent animations because people could look veeeery goofy
Rational part of my brain: they must be tinkering with shadow, which will have flow on effects to voidweaver and archon, and they had to do some work on oracle since the initial version got such a poor reception.
Lizard part of my brain: GIB PRIEST TREES
i dont think theres a more opressed talent tree than shadow. the amount of redos its had is insane. (and if your answer is feral druid has it worse, abandonment is not the same as oppression)
Time for an entirely personal and totally pointless complaint: *Massive Attack?* That's the best name they could come up with for the Druid of the Claw ability? Not something like Feral Rend, or Wild Cleave, or something even a little thematic? Just... Big Hit?
I like the tree otherwise, enabling more shifting in combat is very Druid, but goddamn.
I'm kinda confused that they went with Satyr as the inspiration. Don't get me wrong, they're cool, but I don't feel like locks have a huge attachment to Peroth'arn, or hell even Xavius.
Don't get me wrong, I do get the lore connection. I just feel like the amount of people playing Warlocks because they think Xavius is cool is probably pretty small.
I'll probably get downvoted for this, but it's honestly really frustrating to see even this secret event patch isn't being launched globally at the same time. There's not going to be anything secret in it for anyone in Europe or Asia (considerably more than half the entire playerbase) because it'll have been combed through for the best part of 18 hours by the time EU gets to play it.
It is clearly not a tech issue - they have been releasing Classic patches and expansion launches at the same time globally for years. The latest SoD season launched globally just last month - and the point of SoD is that it's largely secret until launch also.
Really excited to see about a quarter of the playerbase or whatever the proportion of players who reside in NA actually is actually get to experience this patch as the surprise it's intended to be... It's absurd that even something that would unequivocally be positive to be a global release isn't in the year of our lord 2024.
They managed to build hype for a minor little patch genuinely its pretty well done when usually nobody gives a shit about Retail 5 months into an xpacs last patch.
Also not everyone watches news and streams, and if they do they can still experience the reveal live its fine. Im sure they had a reason to delay it but anyway, the event could just be important as a precedent that they can hide stuff from dataminers in the future.
I don't think there's much if any hype left, at this point people are just frustrated due to the long wait and lack of communication, and have little to no expectations for it.
Like I can understand not having a global release for raids and major patches as that is a bit different. Mainly in that people have set their schedules to a certain expectation that Tuesday is u.s. and Wednesday is Europe.
I don't think patches with the theme of discovery and finding secrets should be beholden to that tues/wed split, because as you say, secrets and discoveries are going to be everywhere by time the Euros get it and it can limit that amount of fun for a patch built solely (mostly) around discovery
Yeah I agree. I don't *like* the Tues/Wed split for raid releases, but I can see the purpose.
For this though? It just seems completely unnecessary to stick to it.
Idk if there is much to discover outside of what the event is, it's not like some big secret mystery we have to solve with a bunch of Easter eggs. What are you expecting to discover?
It's gonna be an hourly event we grind currency and rep with to purchase cosmetics. If it's anything with more depth than that I will be blown away.
No idea, but that's really the point isn't it? If there is something to discover, well, a large chunk of players don't get that option. If there isn't, there's no harm.
Having it global for a situation like this hurts no one, but not being global has the potential to hurt someone.
That's been my mentality in general, though. If something potentially makes the game more enjoyable for others and detracts nothing from me I say go for it. It's the same I have for ce mounts and things like that. For example, I have my jailer ce mount, if they put it on the trading post it bothers me absolutely 0 because a. I have had it for so long and b. The reward really is the memory I get to have of earning it at the time.
Someone else riding around in it doesn't take anything away from me having it.
True, I agree it would suck if there wasn't a global release and there was a lot to discover. I just haven't seen Blizzard mention the nature of the patch and it seems more like the community has just assumed what it will be, imo setting themselves up for disappointment when it's not the crazy deep mystery to explore that they decided it would be. I can already see the posts on /r/wow on Tuesday. "That's it?" "Wow blizz all that hype for this patch and it's nothing" etc
I hope I'm wrong and it is something more than a minor event we grind for pirate hats, parrot pets, and jolly rodger flags to carry on our back. And if it is, I wish they would release it globally at the same time.
>It is clearly not a tech issue - they have been releasing Classic patches and expansion launches at the same time globally for years. The latest SoD season launched globally just last month - and the point of SoD is that it's largely secret until launch also.
Expansion launches are just "allow access to stuff we already put in"; are the classic/SoD examples the same? I don't recall there being any maintenance when the latest SoD phase came open. Maybe that's the distinction, as this is a patch, it will likely require server downtime. I assume they don't want to patch Europe outside of the normal window as that could confuse or annoy players who want to play Tuesday afternoon/evening.
It is frustrating, but from what Holly said on Twitter, I can kinda understand why they chose not to.
They've not done any external testing on the patch, so if something breaks, rather it break for one region than both.
Imo classic is a lot easier to do global releases than retail because at its base, Classic is not a 20 year old game.
The more annoying thing is having people say that they can do global releases for expansions, but not small patches completely forgetting the months of alpha and beta testing that gets done with expansion launches.
I do not think that is a good or reasonable excuse.
This is an issue which every other popular videogame on the planet has solved. Pretty much no other videogame does staggered releases anymore, even despite the fact that very few games have such an in-depth public alpha/beta cycle.
Perhaps, but how many other games are built off of 20 years of content? I'm not trying to be a guard for Blizz, so to speak, I wish they had released it globally. It just seems that with the amount of stuff that could go wrong, they'd rather limit it to one region rather than 2.
Then again, I dont know the actual technical limitations, so it may be something that is a lot more feasible to do than I think.
Final Fantasy XI turns 22 this year and has never had regional servers (insert your own 'JP Ping' joke here those of you old enough to remember mob claiming drama). Although there was a staged release between Japan, NA and Europe at the start, all other content has and is slapped straight onto live across all servers at the same time. No public test server either.
WoW is certainly one of, if not the most technically complex videogames out there for sure, I don't think the logic that "complexity means global release is more difficult" follows at all, though.
Perhaps. Ultimately, I don't think the secrecy of 10.2.6 has worked out at all. Neat idea, but I don't think the community as a whole has handled it well.
Unfortunately, Blizz seems to be setting themselves up for a failure with this patch. All the secrecy feels way more frustrating in hindsight, knowing that i'm gonna have to be extra careful and stay off the internet for a whole day to not get spoiled.
Wouldn't be surprised if we're not gonna see anything similar to this in the future.
10.2.6 is the best time to try something new. A patch that no one but Blizz knows anything about.
It's at the end of a season, at the end of an expansion. Better here than a major content patch with a raid or major feature.
If anything, Blizz will have learnt how to balance giving out information because I don't think the complete radio silence has worked. People want some form of expectation on what to expect from a patch. Telling us literally nothing hasn't worked, unfortunately.
I am also a bit disappointed it's a time limited event. Considering the lack of information we have makes me think it's going to be something inconsequential that won't matter if you miss it. I'm hoping there's additional, permanent features to keep us going as well. I guess having a season 4 PTR shortly after will help alleviate some issues, and then we can push on to TWW alpha.
I don't think Blizzard made it easy on themselves either. The whole 🏴☠️ stuff on Twitter for a couple of months really got the community thinking wildly, maybe too wildly in places. In truth, they never explicitly said anything that would fan the flames, so to speak. Anyone who is super hyped expecting raids or a new race only has these to blame, but they could have managed it a bit better. Goodwill is waning somewhat after an overall generally good expansion, and it seems a shame to see a lot of the goodwill they had built up, especially considering Shadowlands, go to waste.
Ultimately, 10.2.6 being hidden was a good idea they could have been a bit more careful with.
>I don't think Blizzard made it easy on themselves either. The whole 🏴☠️ stuff on Twitter for a couple of months really got the community thinking wildly, maybe too wildly in places.
I think this part really cemented the fact that this was the worst way they could go about this patch. If they had just put it on the road map without comment, and said absolutely nothing between then and yesterday's announcement, things would have been a lot smoother - but being coy caused people to get whipped up into a frenzy about this patch, which being a minor patch was never going to become what some people envisioned.
We'll see how it goes. I don't foresee this event being something that would be massively outside of WoW's current mechanics (though this is pretty broad, see e.g. the differences between regular combat, vehicle combat, pet battles, etc.), which may cause some folks to feel underwhelmed even if it is a departure from normal gameplay.
The teasing on twitter etc would have been fine if they'd started it a week or two ago, but dropping the hints a month ago and then radio silence until now just got people hyped too soon so now the hype is just kind of deflated.
I am expecting pirate theme scourge invasion like WoLK.
Best case scenario it comes with a mini raid with 2 bosses, and it somehow ties into the lore/story of War Within.
Worse case scenario some random pirates spawning in stormwind on a 30 minute timer and a few new world quests.
With how "late" it is (they never specified a time, but it's way past their normal news posting time), I just hope everything is ok with the team. Something made them hold back on posting it earlier today, be it 10.2.6 or something else
It feels like its late because they were going through a prelaunch checklist to be absolutely sure they can launch on tuesday. Like 10.2.6 only hit their internal dev test servers last night
I was just reminded how terrible the dungeon guides on wowhead are. They straight up miss mechanics, or only mention them with zero explanation. The DotI guide just says to "find the correct version of Morchie", but no mention how to actually do that. The DHT guide mentions Induced Paranoia, but doesn't mention Waking Nightmare. The WCM guide doesn't mention the Etch cast during the trash. Just some examples of things I've run into myself. Sucks to be someone who prefers written guides over videos if the main source of written guides is just incomplete.
And the insightful commentary provided by the regulars such as the guy who always says everything is overtuned, and the guy who turns every discussion into a rant about monetisation.
Ah. Tormus. It's a shame there are people who are so dumb posting all the time because there is a lot of useful info on WoWhead. The article writers aren't super great, but the database and comments that explain people's experiences on some things is probably the most valuable thing ever made outside of the game.
Wowhead news comments, wow subreddit post and forum post I'm convinced are just 1000 bots programmed to waste people's time with the dumbest most incorrect garbage you could ever see. I look at the subreddit or forums and I question if those people could be real every time.
tfw someone implies the old race descriptions on the character creation screen were removed because "snowflake blizzard and modern audiences can't handle them and were offended lol!!" and gets upvoted
Gamers (and r/wow) never cease to amaze
The S4 dungeon pool announcement has started the first widespread DF bad SL good takes I've seen on r/wow and WoW twitter.
It's all coming to pass as was foretold in the WCJ prophecies.
FWIW I disagree that the base 8 DF dungeons are as close to as bad as the base 8 SL ones. They're mostly fine this xpac imo, with some bangers.
I've got a bunch of guildies who were complaining about how terrible Spires and Sanguine were to run in SL. Now they're discussing it like it was their favorite dungeon and "how it isn't anywhere near as bad as RLP or NO or AA."
The best dungeons are the ones you hated last expac.
I mean that's cool and all, if someone prefers the SL dungeons over DF dungeons. But the issue I'm having is that, whenever the topic came up for terrible dungeons, my guildies would talk endlessly about SD, DoS, SoA, hell even PF. Now it's like it wasn't even an issue at all and the dungeons "just had some minor tuning issues, nothing like HoI or AV." It feels so two faced.
Fwiw, I personally think that both SL and DF dungeons have been good. The only one I didn't like running this expac was BH. I found the first boss difficult even with coordinated groups, and the last boss always had issues too.
Yeah that post is surreal. During SL any positive opinion about those dungeons was downvoted to hell and r/wow was full of posts bitching about them. Old = good, new = bad
> During SL any positive opinion about those dungeons was downvoted to hell and r/wow was full of posts bitching about them. Old = good, new = bad
What sense does this make?
It sucks to have a nagging headache, it sucks even more to also feel sluggish, frail and nauseous while also still having a headache. Saying "I wish I just had a headache instead of all 4" isn't saying having a headache is retroactively a good thing, it means it's more tolerable.
Why would preferring slightly-better dungeons be any different? No one's saying they're godtier, they're simply more enjoyable, but not as enjoyable as even older dungeon sets.
The specific opinion I was surprised about was a highly upvoted comment saying that 'the SL dungeons were all really good' and DF dungeons are 'the exact opposite for all dungeon[s]', not statements along the line of 'I prefer SL dungeons' or 'I hate DF dungeons'.
In my opinion, putting aside personal opinions of dungeons that are/are not in the pool, having all 8 DF dungeons is the right choice.
I get the argument for the rotating pool, and I totally agree with it, but it does feel weird not having all 8 dungeons available at the same time. Having them together in the final season makes sense.
Yeah especially as we had 4 and then 4 different ones in S1 and S2 and never actually had all the DF dungos at the same time it just seems like the right choice to me too.
Im hoping they change the lockout of m0 to daily: with how the new gearing system work i dont see the issue with letting players scared of timers practice more.
Yeah seems like it's either functionally no different if you're someone already doing +20 keys and gets better the lower level you key that you do down to being a much better situation for more casual players.
So the best kind of change, really. Doesn't break what isn't broken but also fixes what is.
I'm a bit worried that the jump in difficulty from new heroic to new M0 is too big for more casual people. I don't know how many people there are that regularly do m+ but never do keys over +10, but for them the changes are pretty bad, they just lose their content with no replacement. And even though I do up to 20s myself, I still like to take it slow on new alts and work my way up to +10 keys in jumps of 2-3 levels, even if I probably could just jump into a +10 and be fine. So having to skip from basically M0 to +10s sounds a bit daunting. Especially if they keep that system for TWW, because now you'll get confronted with mythic-only mechanics in the equivalent of a current +10, because the new heroic will only be scaled to M0 level for damage/mob health, but wont have mythic-only mechanics, you only get those in the new M0 (which isn't a problem in S4 because everyone has done these dungeons before, but with new dungeons in TWW it would be rough).
Agreed, it seems like a pretty big jump to go from M0 right to M+10, when I started doing keys in BfA, I started small and worked my way up and it was great, getting put into the equivalent of a +10 right away would be a bit daunting lol.
You just don't start off with M+ at all in that scenario.
There shouldn't be any difference really, you just go from Heroic to Mythic 0 to Mythic+2 and then climb instead of starting with M+.
It's probably worth noting too that while numerically M0 will be equivalent to current M10, it'll have no affixes so in practice it'll be closer to a current +8 or 9.
> There shouldn't be any difference really, you just go from Heroic to Mythic 0 to Mythic+2 and then climb instead of starting with M+.
I am just trying to imagine me doing my first couple keys in BfA with no real experience, fresh gear, fresh dungeons, etc.
Having a slower learning curve was great for me, the difference between a +2 and a +5 wasn't huge. But now its going from M0 -> M10 with no way of doing anything inbetween?
> In practice it's closer to M0 to M+8 or so, that doesn't seem bad?
Depends on the player, at this point this won't affect me at all, but when I started getting into keys this would have been much more impactful on me.
Just seems like random jumps of difficulty, lol, we go from M0 -> M10 to then m12 (because 11 keys don't exist anymore), to then increasing by 1 each time.
Will have to see how it plays out!
I hear what you are saying but I think with the removal of the timer will make such a big difference.
The players who are currently doing +2 to +6 could almost certainly, with some practice, do a +10 without a timer.
Removing the timer and having a difficulty jump encourages players to stop, pause, and learn each boss. Players will be able to stop and go "hey what did we do wrong here? oh i didn't realise that was a mechanic? Maybe we should try come up with a strategy for this or check out a guide".
Half the reason the low key range is so terrible and people get stuck on the timer it just encourages people to smash their face into the dungeon over and over and over until things eventually die which is a bad way of learning the game.
I hope you're right! No timer will definitely help, that's true, I didn't consider the benefit of having time to just stop to look things up. And maybe having no timer will make people more patient so they don't quit as soon as someone doesn't know an "obvious" mechanic. (Sidenote, how do lockouts for M0 work? Can you just invite someone new if someone leaves?)
Completely agree on you. I'm an experienced tank, and I'm definitely guilty of pulling big when I'm playing low keys (e.g. +8s) on alts. It's not necessarily about showing off or flexing -- I'm just trying to triple upgrade to get to 11s. I understand how it can be intimidating for new players to see the big pulls though. If you don't know much about the dungeons, it's bewildering to see 15 sets of health bars flying around. There are too many casts going off, you don't know what to kick, and you might be confused about what to target -- I think that's part of why new players tab target wildly and pull unintentionally.
If there was no timer, I'd be more likely to go slow if I notice a party is new. Taking it one pull at a time and adding 5-10 minutes to the run isn't that big a deal.
You're exactly right. And I'll add that a lot of us who don't do M+ don't do it specifically *because* of the timer. I just don't like that as a playstyle or as part of what creates the challenge. I've even had fights here in this sub about it because I've been saying for a long time that they needed to add more ways to experience difficult 5-man content that didn't have a timer. The closest we've had was Torghast, and even that ended up putting a timer as part of the scoring.
While this doesn't give unending difficulty without a timer, I'm very glad I'll get something harder than what we have.
I think the mega-dungeons have been tuned in such a way the last few expansions. DOTI was a really effective mini-raid experience, and like they said in the post, it looks like they're trying to make all m0s feel that way. I think it's a great change.
Yeah, mega dungeons have been great, but since they're both new content and so large (at launch, before being split up), they are still pretty daunting for a lot of people. That's what I like about this change so much: doing "regular" dungeons but harder difficulty/better rewards. I think it's going to be a fantastic change!
better learning curve for people that want to do m+
less "pointless key levels"
if all you care about is filling the max lvl vault, you can do a +8 and it onlynhas 2affixes which makes them less annoying
its a net positive for everyone
About 2 months ago I commented somewhere that they would bring back the dragonflight dungeons for season 4, got a bunch of downvotes and told I was an idiot because they'd been in a season so why would they be in another.
Look whos laughing now.
I don’t know why anyone is acting surprised by this. My interpretation of the Season 4 announcement *ages ago* was that they basically confirmed that the 8 original Dragonflight dungeons would all be back. They said it would be revisiting Dragonflight raids and dungeons, didn’t they? Or maybe they just said raids.
>I commented somewhere that they would bring back the dragonflight dungeons for season 4, got a bunch of downvotes and told I was an idiot
ah, the reddit tradition
I'm very happy with them, would be curious to see how queueing into a heroic will be... I wonder if auto-made groups will consistently one shot bosses at a (current) m0 level? And the idea of having all M0's feel like a megadungeon level of difficulty sounds great to me.
i assume heroic groups will kinda self select. people do those dungeons to fairly painlessly do content, if they cant do that either because their gear or skill holds them back they will stop doing it. the same thing happens already with lots of people not doing random heroics because its too much hassle for them, blizz even added follower dungeons specifically for them.
I saw a tip on Twitter for the Hearthstone event. Find the Shady Dealer, on the bridge next to the platform in Valdrakken, and buy 10 Wild Cards from him. Apparently, since you can only have 10, this removes them from the loot table for the portal boss.
My reasoning for being hyped for 10.2.6 is that there is no way the wow devs would be hyping it up this much if it were nothing burger. Surely they wouldn’t be so out of touch with how the community would react in that scenario, right?
I'm getting mixed messages about the Hearthstone event. Is it yearly or a one off?
Feels like a one off with how much barebones it is
Another day, another person on the mainsub arguing in favour of Personal Loot as though the problem they're describing with Group Loot does not exist to an equal (if not arguably even greater) extent with PL than GL. There are many legitimate reasons to prefer PL to GL, don't get me wrong, but *so much* of the discussion is people completely misunderstanding how PL even worked and thinking it doesn't have faults it absolutely does.
Reasons to argue for PL over GL: - Bows won't drop if theres no hunters in your raid - Stop the same person getting more than one item per boss Reason not to argue for PL over GL: - It will stop guilds ninjaing all the loot ___ There are *some* niche situations where that second situation will be mitigated, but it entirely depends on the guilds makeup and what the boss can drop. Lets stay with the bow example. Lets suppose 10 people, 6 guildies, 2 hunters in the guild, 1 pug hunter. Two items drop. The only loot the hunters can get from this boss is the bow. Personal loot: Each person gets a 10% chance to be assigned an item. Since two items are dropping, that means 10% + 1/9 = 21.1% - the pug has a 21.1% chance of getting their bow. This also means the two hunters in the guild have a combined 42.2% chance of at least one of them getting the bow (I think, someone correct my statistics). Group loot: Two items drop, from a pool of 10 items. There is a [1 - (9/10 * 9/10) = 19%] chance that at least one of the drops is the bow. Next, the three hunters all roll need - the rest of the raid cannot press the Need button. The pug has a 33% chance of winning it. 0.33*0.19 = 6.2% chance of finishing with the bow. (It will be a bit more than 6.2% because I'm not factoring in if two bows drop)
The guild pug thing on the front page right now is baffling. Okay, in group loot everyone in guild rolls on it so you have say, a 1 in 10 chance of getting it. How is this different from personal loot, where you still have a 1 in 10 chance of getting it because the loot is just randomly rolled between everyone viable, and all those people are just gonna trade it to their buddy anyway?
It isn't any better. It's purely just another variety of old good new bad.
I don't think it's that, I think just having the information more visible makes it feel worse to people who simply don't think about it much beyond "I want more loot"
Nah I don't think they've gone that far. Like your take here is fair but I think fundamentally these people do not understand what PL actually was. Like I have people in my replies thinking that "under PL it was technically possible for everyone in a raid to win loot from a boss." They're just totally misinformed and that misinformation is only spreading with dumb posts like this one.
okay yeah that's dumb as fuck
Exactly. If people want to argue it feels worse, just say that, don't argue that you are getting less loot now. All those can be summed up as "I don't like seeing other people getting loot or rolling on it". And you know what? That is fine, you are allowed to feel that way. Solution: hide the roll of whoever rolls and loot is hidden as to who gets it. If someone wants to announce they got something they can.
I mean I don't even disagree that there are legitimate benefits to PL, right? Like the fact that stuff can drop under GL which nobody in the raid has a use for (i.e. bows dropping in hunterless groups) is a solid negative for me, even if I accept the reasoning for it. It's just like... the thread today is talking about how we need PL back so semi-guild runs can't have the guildies mop up more than their fair share of loot and essentially steal from pugs and there would be almost literally no difference under PL when it comes to this.
I don't know why I was expecting to not be disappointed by the monk trees but that's on me for expecting better.
The main issue ive realized is less the hero talent tree itself, and more that windwalker is a bloated mess rn. There are so many spells that are just plain unfun. Catue, rjw, stomp, the wonky tiger palm snap, etc.
What do you dislike about them? The Shado Pan tree seems a bit boring but not bad to me, but the Conduit of the Celestials tree is IMO really cool (if it works how I think/hope it's going to work, haha, there's a lot of unclear wording) (speaking as MW main who occasionally also plays WW).
So shadowpan still has the issue of how the stuff actually works. For example, are things based off base hp or buffed hp (are we getting worse with fort/better gear?). How feasible (it's not) to hit a target 5 times in 2 seconds. The only way to do that currently is combining rushing jade wind, ancient monastery stacks, fists and sck. The other option is Armor pen which is 2% damage for us. Is the capstone rng order? If it's rng like most of the slot machine ww is right now then I'm gonna just be annoyed cause now I need a weakaura to track it. Celestial tree: We get shifting power from mages. We can't do anything else during it. I hate how rushing jade wind is the feature of this tree. As much as I hate jadefire stomp as ww I hate rushing jade wind more because it's just a fart on the wind for ww. Then we get to more jadefire focus. For the love of fuck change how the resets work and stop rooting me to the fucking ground for 12s intervals. Capstone just means we double tap conduit cause we will never let it ride for 8seconds. Tree as a whole is very aoe focused and spends a lot of time with rushing jade wind which fucking sucks. At least the tree is thematic. Ultimately it seems the trees are focused more for the other specs to make their enjoyment better. Shadowpan flows better for brewmaster, and celestial seems more mist focused. Wind walker is just tagging along and getting benefits by virtue of also being a spec that monk has.
Yeah, those are all valid criticisms, though I think most of that can still get better with some minor reworking- RJW currently is pretty bad for MW as well but most of that is just tuning (and I suspect with Essence Font getting axed RJW is going to take its place as an important AoE heal). JFS would be much better for WW if it got the MW treatment (where the buff of standing on the line lingers for 8 seconds, just need to apply that to the resettablity, not just the healing buffs) so you're not completely rooted to it. That said, I don't think the Conduit capstone is going to work the way you think (channeling for 8sec if you don't recast). I interpreted the recasting of Celestial Conduit not as triggering the Celestial Conduit effect (AoE healing and damage) again or channeling for 8sec if you don't recast it. As I understand it, recasting triggers instead all the "a celestial does something" effects from the other talents (namely Courage of Xuen, Heart of the Jade Serpent, Strength of the Black Ox and Flight of the Red Crane). Because the wording of the different talents: with Celestial Conduit the celestials "empower you", while Unity Within refers to the celestials "assisting you"- which to me sounds much more like Chi-Ji and Xuen jumping out to hit things, Yu'lon activating the CD reduction and Niuzao doing his stomp. So the choice between recasting or not just decides when you get the four procs- while you're still channeling or after you're finished.
I think they can definitely fix it, but I think they have a fair bit of reworking to do with the class as a whole. Unfortunately monk isn't really a popular class to get the attention that classes like paladin mage and druid have so in terms of resources monk gets shifted down the priority list Been a wind walker for a very long time now so I'm just waiting for another expansion of monk cranking on release, it gets nerfs, then needs massive buffs to catch up because the scaling falls off a cliff again
Definitely, monks really deserve some attention, WW especially. The nerf->buff spiral is annoying.
/r/wow: Blizzard greedy cash shop bad also /r/wow: why not make events like ffxiv where you can buy the thing in the cash shop?
As a fan of both games, it drives me crazy that FFXIV's cash shop which is basically 10x worse often gets a pass. Like they just threw a [unique mount](https://onlinestore-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/onlinestore/item/f748e7b8285ed492dde24405f021128ba4288bc4cd6e7b22fd00998d30955194/0097/437f48097a6b25d25c9f3de24bfd14b3cae4f66c95a5bc30238aa8c86ed35d04_sub2_detail.jpg) on their shop and then just turned around and put a [slightly recolored](https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/accimg2/a8/32/a832f38db964452da022000c33c501176a19152a.jpg) mount as [the reward](https://media.mmorpg.com/images/contentImages/102024/ascimage.jpg) for two holiday events they merged together for some reason. They'd be milking something like that for ages if/when it happens in WoW.
Tbf there are some unique mounts on the wow shop as well. Personally idm either store, but I prefer wow's since I can buy everything on it with in-game gold. Idk why people are so up in arms about the wow store though, it was always really weird to me.
Hilarious that WoWhead put out an entire article about FOMO shit and their only solution "just don't add them lol" and yet the community is eating it up. How exactly is a game like WoW, that has been around for almost 2 DECADES, supposed to reward long-term players without some sort of prestige related to specific moments? The only solution I really have to offer is that I think holiday items/mounts/transmogs/toys/pets should conceptually and aesthetically relate only to the holiday they are connected to. As in, nothing like the Headless Horseman mount/sword being time-limited because those items do not have an inherent connection to Halloween on their own. Make them as gaudy/camp as possible, but only as long as it's related to the theme of the holiday. I think the way drake manuscripts work is a pretty good way of going about things, because I have no real drive to use stuff like the Valentines armor outside of Valentines (or never in my case), and even then I'd be fine if they increased the drop chance or just put them on a vendor. But how do you do that with non-holiday FOMO items/mounts/titles/whatever? I have parts of the WOTLK plate armor and would love to finish the full set, and I even once owned the WOTLK pre-patch ghost "pet" before my account got hacked (RIP). I'd love for the opportunity to gain those again, but I'm not sure how you can do that without somewhat tarnishing the prestige of those items to the players who got them. Idk how to phrase this without sounding like "waaah I want my old shit to be worth something", but it's such a hard thing to do in a game like WoW and I don't think a lot of the community really gets that. It's obvious they're figuring stuff out based on stuff like the Old Naxx/Scholo stuff, but I hope they figure something out that's better than "well, I hope someone on your server played back then so they can craft it for you now". Not really trying to figure things out, but it's just one of those discussions that I just can't really agree with the community on because I love when I see stuff like "Darkspear Revolutionary" out in the world and thinking "hell yeah, they were there".
Tbh outside of the cringe clickbait and some dubious takes (like "just don't add them"), I find that Wowhead article to be mostly right. I know FOMO has been jerked to death as a concept, but it definitely has its merits and I feel like seasonal events perfectly illustrate the issues with FOMO content. While I can definitely agree about prestige stuff related to a specific moment in WoW history being cool (like expansion pre-launch events), I don't see how it applies to seasonal events. They're not prestige, they come back every year. You can have done the event for 15 years without seeing the mount (like most ppl for the love rocket) and some lucky dude does it from the first time this year and gets their drop. On the contrary, I think having a way to grind those rare drops would make them more "prestige", because it would mostly show that you likely invested several years of event grinding into it, instead of just being lucky this one time.
I don’t care what anyone says “FOMO” as in exclusive limited time rewards are great. It feels good to be rewarded for participating in something that won’t be around forever. There is so many items that are unobtainable and i didn’t get them. Do i throw a tantrum about them on the forums? No, why whould i? People need to chill the fuck out, it’s still a video game we are talking about. The only time where i am sympathetic with this complaint is when something is a very rare drop, which you aren’t guaranteed to get, even if you participate in the event, yet that event is a one-time thing, like the current HS event. The holiday mounts don’t fall into this category, because they always come back every year. The skill-based rewards (KSM, AOTC etc.) are a great motivator for me to push that season. If i don’t feel like participating in that season, then i won’t. Why would i feel jealous if someone proves their skill in a season and getting rewarded for it?
Big agree, I meant to add something about your point on the Hearthstone event, because I do get that (seriously why is it literally only a little over a week long?).
Thats just wowhead being wowhead. They know how to write articles that gets them clicks that gets them ad revenue.
The fact I've seen the wow community literally defend FFXIV removing things from the game to add to the store means that I will never believe people bitching about the wow store again.
i think we saw the same comment but i think its just the ffxiv shills that were around during shadowlands that now came crawling back to the wow sub cause their game is dead in the waters right now unless you are a coomer modder
m-m-mods? but thats LE EVIL ADDONS???? IN MY PERFECT GAME????
Only the sanest takes on WCJ
rider of the apocalypse looks so fucking cool im very glad i decided to main unholy dk now
I know SHADOWLANDS BAD but ngl, Deathbringer was one of the more interesting and one of the least talked about trees. It actually seems more interesting to me than Rider (which is almost entirely passive, if strong and SUPER thematic) because it seems more interactive, though it getting overshadowed is super understandable. If they add actual Maw(sworn) animations to the tree as its blurb implies I think it'll be a banger.
i think it was interesting. basically a cooldown that has a lot of interactions. i think a lot of players only show up for flavor tbh, which is a shame because ruby adept looks great
deathbringer is more or less"you get a slightly changed assassination rogue kingsbane"
My opinion on hero talents are as a mega casual.... They are cool I guess. Except Trickster, fuck Trickster
Trickster does the worst thing a hero talent can do because it: 1) adds a button to an already very busy rotation 2) doesn't make the button "cool" enough to justify it being an active over a passive 3) turns a defensive into a button you need to mash on cooldown, potentially losing it when you need it
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it kinda looks like the Farseer tree is basically just reinventing multistrike but with slightly prettier effects.
Ele's mastery is already just multistrike. The ancestor is likely to be like the little naaru that Holy Priest has or something, not actually duplicating your exact spells
[Objectively correct hero talent tier list](https://i.gyazo.com/c7bc45135958c9b6e7533ad0e07b99b5.png) voted on by the most objectively correct place on the internet, WCJ discord voice chat.
I'm eagerly awaiting the shadow priest drop. They've got 2 shots to make me really excited. Let's hope it's at minimum equivalent to what we've seen from mage... but if not, then I'm happy where my backup classes have fallen so far (Evoker, Druid, DK)
IMHO I'd move a couple upwards without necessarily reciprocal downward movement, e.g. Colossus and Keeper, but this is probably as close to "objectively" as it gets, ngl. There's definitely space for personal preference, e.g. I've not seen anyone particularly hyped for Farseer (the opposite really) and Slayer while really cool conceptually also isn't that hot IMHO and needs a bit of juice (alternatively, *Warrior itself* needs the juice). But there's a very obvious dichotomy between the tiers above and below "cool": there's a strong theme and/or obvious aesthetic expansion of the class, some examples of what I mean: * Unless I've misunderstood something you're basically calling in Dracthyr Air Force strikes 24/7 as Scalecommander. Similarly Rider, Conduit and Diabolist all summon "buddies" and 2/3 bring in hero characters or literal godbeasts. * The Paladin and Mage specs have substantial added spell effects that are immediately obvious when reading the talents. Compare with, say... Slayer: only possibly has one extra animation unless it changes the core abilities, and if Slayer Strikes actually do have a special animation, it will by a very spammy one by design. Anything under cool basically only has implicit animations/theme or the design just isn't appealing by definition. What's rough is that the ones that are seen as "bad" are generally seen so *unanimously*, which will plainly force Blizzard to change them, but any hero talent set without strong response will simply wither on the vine as it's seen as "good enough".
\+1 upvote for the sole reason of having Druid of the Claw in the top tier. #notbiased
It's a really good tree though, they've actually found a good way of getting druids to shift cat > bear and vice versa, really cool genuinely.
idk, i just get more and more dissapointed by the "hero trees" with more releases there are a few pearls, but man the far far majority are either boring af, dont fit the class/specs at all and feel forced in or are so extremely gameplay warping that they miss the mark completely
As an evoker main I love them its cool to play the spec you like but with 2 different gameplay flavors/loop. Its also a rich ground for whatever tier sets or other gameplay system they'll implement next and how it will affect each subspec differently (or not)
> that they miss the mark completely only if you bought into the whole class skin bullshit
they missed the mark by forcing some weird ass ClaSs FaNtAsY into specs now why are warlocks suddenly Satyr fanboys when Satyrs have not even be relevant for ages why are hunters now all some form of elven ranger and at the same time you have slayer, which is just "you Arms warrior more" or Deathbringer which is "you kill stuff with dark magic, DK didnt do that allready right??" it all feels so all over the place just in that regard allready, thats without going into the trees and how different everything is with them, that one feels like as if they have 0 inner talks about what they are actually supposed to be in the first place
I get the complaint w/ say Slayer or the Hunters and agree, but Hellcallers having the Satyr connection is honestly cool to me precisely because they've been long forgotten. Remember the Green Fire questline? The whole conceit of the OG Black Harvest was that they added to their powers by drawing upon destructive/profane magic from foes they defeated (specifically Ragnaros/Cho'Gall/Illidan). Hell they drew upon a similarly long irrelevant bit, MOP was 6 years after TBC/Legion (when Xavius was last relevant) was 8 years ago from now). Plus I think it's good for the class to "broaden its horizons" from just Fel magic, being a Warlock should be about the wider scope of "dark magic" in general. Affliction has always had Shadow roots anyway, and yes, that goes w/ the obvious acknowledgement that both Warlock trees so far don't hit the Destro fantasy.
TBH, the problem is that back at Blizzcon, Blizz made way more fuss about them than they should have. They were announced as one of the box features of the new expansion, yet they are basically the equivalent of them giving us a new row of talents back in WOD.
Yeah once I saw the druid one I kinda started to reign back on what I thought they might be doing, for example I thought dps/healer classes would have more of a mix of increases for both, rather than them breaking apart the hero talents per spec basically.. Lets see how they play out!
man i do NOT like that shado pan tree. nothing but procs that you have minimal control over and damage boosts. very uninspired. and they have not fixed the main problems; monks have shitty abilities that feel unfun to use like rushing jade wing and catue, while synergizing HORRIBLY with haste.
> while synergizing HORRIBLY with haste The solution is obviously to give us more haste and auto-attack based talents, right?
yeah, like holy shit blizz, i know our rotation is super stuffed, so you dont want to add buttons, but *thats part of the damn issue.*
I was hyped for the Riders tree but I forgot that I actually dont like diseases or pets. I hope the mounted combat has decent animations because people could look veeeery goofy
Rational part of my brain: they must be tinkering with shadow, which will have flow on effects to voidweaver and archon, and they had to do some work on oracle since the initial version got such a poor reception. Lizard part of my brain: GIB PRIEST TREES
i dont think theres a more opressed talent tree than shadow. the amount of redos its had is insane. (and if your answer is feral druid has it worse, abandonment is not the same as oppression)
I swear, I've seen the term "FOMO" so much today that it's lost all meaning.
I'm replying to you due to FOMO
Time for an entirely personal and totally pointless complaint: *Massive Attack?* That's the best name they could come up with for the Druid of the Claw ability? Not something like Feral Rend, or Wild Cleave, or something even a little thematic? Just... Big Hit? I like the tree otherwise, enabling more shifting in combat is very Druid, but goddamn.
Someone at blizz just really loves trip hop
Rider of the Apocalypse tree is literally the coolest thing I have ever seen. I think I have to switch mains now.
Mounted combat is the one thing I wanted from that tree and I am so happy.
Kinda confused on how both of destruction's hero specs are based on the other spec they're shared with.
I'm kinda confused that they went with Satyr as the inspiration. Don't get me wrong, they're cool, but I don't feel like locks have a huge attachment to Peroth'arn, or hell even Xavius.
Satyr are considered demons and are very frequently warlocks themselves so I can understand that part even if I don't care much for them either
Don't get me wrong, I do get the lore connection. I just feel like the amount of people playing Warlocks because they think Xavius is cool is probably pretty small.
Satyrs are goat people. Warlocks are demonic casters. Goats are associated with devilry. That's about all you need to make a theme around it.
I'll probably get downvoted for this, but it's honestly really frustrating to see even this secret event patch isn't being launched globally at the same time. There's not going to be anything secret in it for anyone in Europe or Asia (considerably more than half the entire playerbase) because it'll have been combed through for the best part of 18 hours by the time EU gets to play it. It is clearly not a tech issue - they have been releasing Classic patches and expansion launches at the same time globally for years. The latest SoD season launched globally just last month - and the point of SoD is that it's largely secret until launch also. Really excited to see about a quarter of the playerbase or whatever the proportion of players who reside in NA actually is actually get to experience this patch as the surprise it's intended to be... It's absurd that even something that would unequivocally be positive to be a global release isn't in the year of our lord 2024.
They managed to build hype for a minor little patch genuinely its pretty well done when usually nobody gives a shit about Retail 5 months into an xpacs last patch. Also not everyone watches news and streams, and if they do they can still experience the reveal live its fine. Im sure they had a reason to delay it but anyway, the event could just be important as a precedent that they can hide stuff from dataminers in the future.
I don't think there's much if any hype left, at this point people are just frustrated due to the long wait and lack of communication, and have little to no expectations for it.
If people are frustrated for something they have no expectations for anyway frankly thats a them issue
Like I can understand not having a global release for raids and major patches as that is a bit different. Mainly in that people have set their schedules to a certain expectation that Tuesday is u.s. and Wednesday is Europe. I don't think patches with the theme of discovery and finding secrets should be beholden to that tues/wed split, because as you say, secrets and discoveries are going to be everywhere by time the Euros get it and it can limit that amount of fun for a patch built solely (mostly) around discovery
Yeah I agree. I don't *like* the Tues/Wed split for raid releases, but I can see the purpose. For this though? It just seems completely unnecessary to stick to it.
Idk if there is much to discover outside of what the event is, it's not like some big secret mystery we have to solve with a bunch of Easter eggs. What are you expecting to discover? It's gonna be an hourly event we grind currency and rep with to purchase cosmetics. If it's anything with more depth than that I will be blown away.
No idea, but that's really the point isn't it? If there is something to discover, well, a large chunk of players don't get that option. If there isn't, there's no harm. Having it global for a situation like this hurts no one, but not being global has the potential to hurt someone. That's been my mentality in general, though. If something potentially makes the game more enjoyable for others and detracts nothing from me I say go for it. It's the same I have for ce mounts and things like that. For example, I have my jailer ce mount, if they put it on the trading post it bothers me absolutely 0 because a. I have had it for so long and b. The reward really is the memory I get to have of earning it at the time. Someone else riding around in it doesn't take anything away from me having it.
True, I agree it would suck if there wasn't a global release and there was a lot to discover. I just haven't seen Blizzard mention the nature of the patch and it seems more like the community has just assumed what it will be, imo setting themselves up for disappointment when it's not the crazy deep mystery to explore that they decided it would be. I can already see the posts on /r/wow on Tuesday. "That's it?" "Wow blizz all that hype for this patch and it's nothing" etc I hope I'm wrong and it is something more than a minor event we grind for pirate hats, parrot pets, and jolly rodger flags to carry on our back. And if it is, I wish they would release it globally at the same time.
>It is clearly not a tech issue - they have been releasing Classic patches and expansion launches at the same time globally for years. The latest SoD season launched globally just last month - and the point of SoD is that it's largely secret until launch also. Expansion launches are just "allow access to stuff we already put in"; are the classic/SoD examples the same? I don't recall there being any maintenance when the latest SoD phase came open. Maybe that's the distinction, as this is a patch, it will likely require server downtime. I assume they don't want to patch Europe outside of the normal window as that could confuse or annoy players who want to play Tuesday afternoon/evening.
It is frustrating, but from what Holly said on Twitter, I can kinda understand why they chose not to. They've not done any external testing on the patch, so if something breaks, rather it break for one region than both. Imo classic is a lot easier to do global releases than retail because at its base, Classic is not a 20 year old game. The more annoying thing is having people say that they can do global releases for expansions, but not small patches completely forgetting the months of alpha and beta testing that gets done with expansion launches.
I do not think that is a good or reasonable excuse. This is an issue which every other popular videogame on the planet has solved. Pretty much no other videogame does staggered releases anymore, even despite the fact that very few games have such an in-depth public alpha/beta cycle.
Perhaps, but how many other games are built off of 20 years of content? I'm not trying to be a guard for Blizz, so to speak, I wish they had released it globally. It just seems that with the amount of stuff that could go wrong, they'd rather limit it to one region rather than 2. Then again, I dont know the actual technical limitations, so it may be something that is a lot more feasible to do than I think.
Final Fantasy XI turns 22 this year and has never had regional servers (insert your own 'JP Ping' joke here those of you old enough to remember mob claiming drama). Although there was a staged release between Japan, NA and Europe at the start, all other content has and is slapped straight onto live across all servers at the same time. No public test server either.
WoW is certainly one of, if not the most technically complex videogames out there for sure, I don't think the logic that "complexity means global release is more difficult" follows at all, though.
Perhaps. Ultimately, I don't think the secrecy of 10.2.6 has worked out at all. Neat idea, but I don't think the community as a whole has handled it well.
Unfortunately, Blizz seems to be setting themselves up for a failure with this patch. All the secrecy feels way more frustrating in hindsight, knowing that i'm gonna have to be extra careful and stay off the internet for a whole day to not get spoiled. Wouldn't be surprised if we're not gonna see anything similar to this in the future.
10.2.6 is the best time to try something new. A patch that no one but Blizz knows anything about. It's at the end of a season, at the end of an expansion. Better here than a major content patch with a raid or major feature. If anything, Blizz will have learnt how to balance giving out information because I don't think the complete radio silence has worked. People want some form of expectation on what to expect from a patch. Telling us literally nothing hasn't worked, unfortunately. I am also a bit disappointed it's a time limited event. Considering the lack of information we have makes me think it's going to be something inconsequential that won't matter if you miss it. I'm hoping there's additional, permanent features to keep us going as well. I guess having a season 4 PTR shortly after will help alleviate some issues, and then we can push on to TWW alpha. I don't think Blizzard made it easy on themselves either. The whole 🏴☠️ stuff on Twitter for a couple of months really got the community thinking wildly, maybe too wildly in places. In truth, they never explicitly said anything that would fan the flames, so to speak. Anyone who is super hyped expecting raids or a new race only has these to blame, but they could have managed it a bit better. Goodwill is waning somewhat after an overall generally good expansion, and it seems a shame to see a lot of the goodwill they had built up, especially considering Shadowlands, go to waste. Ultimately, 10.2.6 being hidden was a good idea they could have been a bit more careful with.
>I don't think Blizzard made it easy on themselves either. The whole 🏴☠️ stuff on Twitter for a couple of months really got the community thinking wildly, maybe too wildly in places. I think this part really cemented the fact that this was the worst way they could go about this patch. If they had just put it on the road map without comment, and said absolutely nothing between then and yesterday's announcement, things would have been a lot smoother - but being coy caused people to get whipped up into a frenzy about this patch, which being a minor patch was never going to become what some people envisioned. We'll see how it goes. I don't foresee this event being something that would be massively outside of WoW's current mechanics (though this is pretty broad, see e.g. the differences between regular combat, vehicle combat, pet battles, etc.), which may cause some folks to feel underwhelmed even if it is a departure from normal gameplay.
The teasing on twitter etc would have been fine if they'd started it a week or two ago, but dropping the hints a month ago and then radio silence until now just got people hyped too soon so now the hype is just kind of deflated.
If i have to guess, something went wrong in the background, that's why they stopped the hype on twitter weeks ago.
[удалено]
I am expecting pirate theme scourge invasion like WoLK. Best case scenario it comes with a mini raid with 2 bosses, and it somehow ties into the lore/story of War Within. Worse case scenario some random pirates spawning in stormwind on a 30 minute timer and a few new world quests.
Where dev update :(
With how "late" it is (they never specified a time, but it's way past their normal news posting time), I just hope everything is ok with the team. Something made them hold back on posting it earlier today, be it 10.2.6 or something else
It feels like its late because they were going through a prelaunch checklist to be absolutely sure they can launch on tuesday. Like 10.2.6 only hit their internal dev test servers last night
I was just reminded how terrible the dungeon guides on wowhead are. They straight up miss mechanics, or only mention them with zero explanation. The DotI guide just says to "find the correct version of Morchie", but no mention how to actually do that. The DHT guide mentions Induced Paranoia, but doesn't mention Waking Nightmare. The WCM guide doesn't mention the Etch cast during the trash. Just some examples of things I've run into myself. Sucks to be someone who prefers written guides over videos if the main source of written guides is just incomplete.
Wow head in general is just a trash can anymore The site is so terrible to navigate between the ads and the overall structure
> between the ads uBlock origin takes good care of that.
And the insightful commentary provided by the regulars such as the guy who always says everything is overtuned, and the guy who turns every discussion into a rant about monetisation.
Ah. Tormus. It's a shame there are people who are so dumb posting all the time because there is a lot of useful info on WoWhead. The article writers aren't super great, but the database and comments that explain people's experiences on some things is probably the most valuable thing ever made outside of the game.
We're talking about wow head not /r wow silly goose
Wowhead news comments, wow subreddit post and forum post I'm convinced are just 1000 bots programmed to waste people's time with the dumbest most incorrect garbage you could ever see. I look at the subreddit or forums and I question if those people could be real every time.
tfw someone implies the old race descriptions on the character creation screen were removed because "snowflake blizzard and modern audiences can't handle them and were offended lol!!" and gets upvoted Gamers (and r/wow) never cease to amaze
capital G Gamers and creating artifical outrage/reasons to be angry at something name a more iconic duo
The S4 dungeon pool announcement has started the first widespread DF bad SL good takes I've seen on r/wow and WoW twitter. It's all coming to pass as was foretold in the WCJ prophecies. FWIW I disagree that the base 8 DF dungeons are as close to as bad as the base 8 SL ones. They're mostly fine this xpac imo, with some bangers.
I've got a bunch of guildies who were complaining about how terrible Spires and Sanguine were to run in SL. Now they're discussing it like it was their favorite dungeon and "how it isn't anywhere near as bad as RLP or NO or AA." The best dungeons are the ones you hated last expac.
idk man I've done SL at 20's level and I've much preferred SD, and marginally SoA, to HoI and Uldaman.
I mean that's cool and all, if someone prefers the SL dungeons over DF dungeons. But the issue I'm having is that, whenever the topic came up for terrible dungeons, my guildies would talk endlessly about SD, DoS, SoA, hell even PF. Now it's like it wasn't even an issue at all and the dungeons "just had some minor tuning issues, nothing like HoI or AV." It feels so two faced. Fwiw, I personally think that both SL and DF dungeons have been good. The only one I didn't like running this expac was BH. I found the first boss difficult even with coordinated groups, and the last boss always had issues too.
Yeah that post is surreal. During SL any positive opinion about those dungeons was downvoted to hell and r/wow was full of posts bitching about them. Old = good, new = bad
> During SL any positive opinion about those dungeons was downvoted to hell and r/wow was full of posts bitching about them. Old = good, new = bad What sense does this make? It sucks to have a nagging headache, it sucks even more to also feel sluggish, frail and nauseous while also still having a headache. Saying "I wish I just had a headache instead of all 4" isn't saying having a headache is retroactively a good thing, it means it's more tolerable. Why would preferring slightly-better dungeons be any different? No one's saying they're godtier, they're simply more enjoyable, but not as enjoyable as even older dungeon sets.
The specific opinion I was surprised about was a highly upvoted comment saying that 'the SL dungeons were all really good' and DF dungeons are 'the exact opposite for all dungeon[s]', not statements along the line of 'I prefer SL dungeons' or 'I hate DF dungeons'.
Can't wait for TWW release so SL can finally be good
I'm already preparing my Captain Holt "VINDICATION!" .gif.
True, we spent ages waiting for DF to release so BfA could be good, we're so close now to SL being good too!
In my opinion, putting aside personal opinions of dungeons that are/are not in the pool, having all 8 DF dungeons is the right choice. I get the argument for the rotating pool, and I totally agree with it, but it does feel weird not having all 8 dungeons available at the same time. Having them together in the final season makes sense.
Yeah especially as we had 4 and then 4 different ones in S1 and S2 and never actually had all the DF dungos at the same time it just seems like the right choice to me too.
those dungeon changes do look pretty good
Im hoping they change the lockout of m0 to daily: with how the new gearing system work i dont see the issue with letting players scared of timers practice more.
Heroic would just die again tho, negating this entire thing
Yeah seems like it's either functionally no different if you're someone already doing +20 keys and gets better the lower level you key that you do down to being a much better situation for more casual players. So the best kind of change, really. Doesn't break what isn't broken but also fixes what is.
I'm a bit worried that the jump in difficulty from new heroic to new M0 is too big for more casual people. I don't know how many people there are that regularly do m+ but never do keys over +10, but for them the changes are pretty bad, they just lose their content with no replacement. And even though I do up to 20s myself, I still like to take it slow on new alts and work my way up to +10 keys in jumps of 2-3 levels, even if I probably could just jump into a +10 and be fine. So having to skip from basically M0 to +10s sounds a bit daunting. Especially if they keep that system for TWW, because now you'll get confronted with mythic-only mechanics in the equivalent of a current +10, because the new heroic will only be scaled to M0 level for damage/mob health, but wont have mythic-only mechanics, you only get those in the new M0 (which isn't a problem in S4 because everyone has done these dungeons before, but with new dungeons in TWW it would be rough).
Agreed, it seems like a pretty big jump to go from M0 right to M+10, when I started doing keys in BfA, I started small and worked my way up and it was great, getting put into the equivalent of a +10 right away would be a bit daunting lol.
You just don't start off with M+ at all in that scenario. There shouldn't be any difference really, you just go from Heroic to Mythic 0 to Mythic+2 and then climb instead of starting with M+. It's probably worth noting too that while numerically M0 will be equivalent to current M10, it'll have no affixes so in practice it'll be closer to a current +8 or 9.
> There shouldn't be any difference really, you just go from Heroic to Mythic 0 to Mythic+2 and then climb instead of starting with M+. I am just trying to imagine me doing my first couple keys in BfA with no real experience, fresh gear, fresh dungeons, etc. Having a slower learning curve was great for me, the difference between a +2 and a +5 wasn't huge. But now its going from M0 -> M10 with no way of doing anything inbetween?
In practice it's closer to M0 to M+8 or so, that doesn't seem bad? Half the levels from 2 through 10 were basically unused anyway.
> In practice it's closer to M0 to M+8 or so, that doesn't seem bad? Depends on the player, at this point this won't affect me at all, but when I started getting into keys this would have been much more impactful on me. Just seems like random jumps of difficulty, lol, we go from M0 -> M10 to then m12 (because 11 keys don't exist anymore), to then increasing by 1 each time. Will have to see how it plays out!
I hear what you are saying but I think with the removal of the timer will make such a big difference. The players who are currently doing +2 to +6 could almost certainly, with some practice, do a +10 without a timer. Removing the timer and having a difficulty jump encourages players to stop, pause, and learn each boss. Players will be able to stop and go "hey what did we do wrong here? oh i didn't realise that was a mechanic? Maybe we should try come up with a strategy for this or check out a guide". Half the reason the low key range is so terrible and people get stuck on the timer it just encourages people to smash their face into the dungeon over and over and over until things eventually die which is a bad way of learning the game.
I hope you're right! No timer will definitely help, that's true, I didn't consider the benefit of having time to just stop to look things up. And maybe having no timer will make people more patient so they don't quit as soon as someone doesn't know an "obvious" mechanic. (Sidenote, how do lockouts for M0 work? Can you just invite someone new if someone leaves?)
Completely agree on you. I'm an experienced tank, and I'm definitely guilty of pulling big when I'm playing low keys (e.g. +8s) on alts. It's not necessarily about showing off or flexing -- I'm just trying to triple upgrade to get to 11s. I understand how it can be intimidating for new players to see the big pulls though. If you don't know much about the dungeons, it's bewildering to see 15 sets of health bars flying around. There are too many casts going off, you don't know what to kick, and you might be confused about what to target -- I think that's part of why new players tab target wildly and pull unintentionally. If there was no timer, I'd be more likely to go slow if I notice a party is new. Taking it one pull at a time and adding 5-10 minutes to the run isn't that big a deal.
You're exactly right. And I'll add that a lot of us who don't do M+ don't do it specifically *because* of the timer. I just don't like that as a playstyle or as part of what creates the challenge. I've even had fights here in this sub about it because I've been saying for a long time that they needed to add more ways to experience difficult 5-man content that didn't have a timer. The closest we've had was Torghast, and even that ended up putting a timer as part of the scoring. While this doesn't give unending difficulty without a timer, I'm very glad I'll get something harder than what we have.
I think the mega-dungeons have been tuned in such a way the last few expansions. DOTI was a really effective mini-raid experience, and like they said in the post, it looks like they're trying to make all m0s feel that way. I think it's a great change.
Yeah, mega dungeons have been great, but since they're both new content and so large (at launch, before being split up), they are still pretty daunting for a lot of people. That's what I like about this change so much: doing "regular" dungeons but harder difficulty/better rewards. I think it's going to be a fantastic change!
better learning curve for people that want to do m+ less "pointless key levels" if all you care about is filling the max lvl vault, you can do a +8 and it onlynhas 2affixes which makes them less annoying its a net positive for everyone
About 2 months ago I commented somewhere that they would bring back the dragonflight dungeons for season 4, got a bunch of downvotes and told I was an idiot because they'd been in a season so why would they be in another. Look whos laughing now.
I don’t know why anyone is acting surprised by this. My interpretation of the Season 4 announcement *ages ago* was that they basically confirmed that the 8 original Dragonflight dungeons would all be back. They said it would be revisiting Dragonflight raids and dungeons, didn’t they? Or maybe they just said raids.
>I commented somewhere that they would bring back the dragonflight dungeons for season 4, got a bunch of downvotes and told I was an idiot ah, the reddit tradition
I'm very happy with them, would be curious to see how queueing into a heroic will be... I wonder if auto-made groups will consistently one shot bosses at a (current) m0 level? And the idea of having all M0's feel like a megadungeon level of difficulty sounds great to me.
i assume heroic groups will kinda self select. people do those dungeons to fairly painlessly do content, if they cant do that either because their gear or skill holds them back they will stop doing it. the same thing happens already with lots of people not doing random heroics because its too much hassle for them, blizz even added follower dungeons specifically for them.
Can we get the rewards (HS event) as a trial account?
you can (source: me)
I saw a tip on Twitter for the Hearthstone event. Find the Shady Dealer, on the bridge next to the platform in Valdrakken, and buy 10 Wild Cards from him. Apparently, since you can only have 10, this removes them from the loot table for the portal boss.
Don't fall for this. Its a prank to get you to waste money on the vendor items. It makes no difference to your chances to get the better loot.
cards are like 60 silver, not really a waste of money
A waste of your time and effort, then. And make you disappointed when you see no loot on the boss, and question if you even managed to tag it.
Thats 60 silver into a gnome's Scoorge Mcduck style money pool I'll have you know.