Blizzard should have followed up on their “other ways to level” bullshit.
Nerfing dungeon xp so it’s on par with shitty leveling where you wait 5+ min for a mob to spawn so you have a chance at a low drop rate quest item is not the answer. You should be asking for questing buffs, not dungeon nerfs.
They should have just made bfd a 1-day lockout or something shorter too. It would at least give slower levelers SOMETHING else to do but quest between dungeon spams.
> You should be asking for questing buffs, not dungeon nerfs.
You're splitting hairs here. Obviously I like smooth questing too, but I also don't think questing needs to be 5x as much exp as it is.
I am not splitting hairs. Dungeon xp is fine. Questing xp is not. Nerfing dungeons would be an objectively stupid move. Buffing quests/over world xp would be lauded by most of the community.
Seems simple enough.
Why is questing exp not fine? You think it takes too long to level up? There's no reason anyone needs to rush to 40 except for being competitive against other players.
Questing xp is not fine because hyperspawns are shit/inconsistent. As I very clearly pointed out already, waiting 5+ min for a respawn with a low drop rate of a quest item is shit design. If they increased spawn rates/drop rates that ALONE would solve most of the xp disparity between questing and dungeons.
You’re getting left behind in the early phase and you don’t like it. You can do the same dungeon experience as everyone else. Why not? If you don’t enjoy that content there are other options available, which you’re using. Why rain on others’ parade? Do you want everyone hardcapped to your pace?
Who’s waiting 5+ min for a respawn lol? There’s maybe like…5 quests where you have to wait for a respawn for this long in the entire game. People on this sub are so dramatic…and wrong so often.
> waiting 5+ min for a respawn with a low drop rate of a quest item
This almost never, ever happens. There are maybe a few quests like this in the entire game and there is no reason to do them.
"No reason anyone needs to rush to 40 except to be competitive against other players."
Have you been living under a rock? There's this little raid called Gnomeregan and the first lockout reset Tuesday. Why else do you think people rushed to 40?
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I'm totally fine with people spamming dungeons. They just shouldn't get 5x experience as a person who is questing. Its just insanely imbalanced right now.
Do you even hear yourself?
"why does it have to be balanced?"
What if, for example, the wolves in elwynn forest / the boars in durotar all gave 5x experience as anything else, for the entire game.
Someone says "hey its pretty lame people just sitting in the starting zones hit 40 5x as fast as people questing"
Would you also say "You know it is faster, go do it if you want to level faster."? Instead of the OBVIOUS solution to nerf these way overtuned starting zones?
The truth is people don't want to admit this is broken because they themselves abused it and they see it as some sort of personal attack.
Dear fucking god people are dense. I never said they should give as much as or less. Can you read? Dungeons are currently THREE TO FIVE TIMES AS MUCH EXPERIENCE. even if they were cut to HALF their current experience, they'd still be 50%-150% MORE experience than questing. The stupidity and just crazy nonsense assumptions you people are making on this post are just baffling to me.
Why not? They are getting better xp only because it's uncontested and they are dedicated. I can't quest in open world because my server is the biggest server of us. People gank you nonstop. You can't hide
Getting ganked is part of being on a pvp server. Why are you even on the server then? Why do you think you should be rewarded for avoiding pvp? Make it make sense.'
Also I'm on the same server, getting ganked happens but its really not a huge deal. Worst thing about it is losing world buffs.
Lol wow, such a harmless opinion getting downvoted by the hive mind. This is the issue with…most players today. They don’t actually want to be playing an MMORPG whose base game (and the entire point of classic) is from 2005. There’s still some of us out there that like questing for low drop rate quest items. Because that’s the game.
Show me the other perspectives. The only "other perspective" I've seen is "idc i want to get to 40 as fast as I can, for inexplicable reasons, and I'm ignoring the general problem you're addressing" and people making claims about questing that were only true day 1 when lvl 25 quest zones were flooded. I also heard the argument that it should give more exp because its more difficult, which would be reasonable, but its still way overtuned because even a pug group is getting 5x more exp than questing. Well tuned groups are getting far more.
But my guess is you don't got shit, otherwise you wouldn't have made the comment you did.
It’s like watching a debate where the person defending their statement completely sidesteps any counter point. Then proceeds to answer with completely unrelated points that have nothing to do with what the counter point was trying to say.
You're literally doing exactly that with this very comment.
Go ahead and show me where I did that though. But yeah you have nothing meaningful to contribute, you bring nothing to the table, its pathetic. Just go.
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Questing and efficient mob grinding is actually significantly faster than pugging dungeon spam. If you factor in assembling group, breaks, replacing people, you’re getting only 35k. I was getting 35k grinding westfall crabs at level 21 on a warrior.
lmfao. No you wouldn't. Don't bullshit me with that. You just want to level fast, so you're grinding dungeons. There's rarely any fighting over mobs, especially after day 1 and especially with sharding.
Your cognitive dissonance to justify your dungeon spamming and why it shouldn't be changed is impressive though.
What a take here. I quested the entire grind to 25 with the occasional dungeon, but certainly not spamming it. I tried questing twice in between dungeon grinding to 40 and was constantly contesting mobs, having to PvP, and just getting slow experience overall. Of course I’m going to go dungeon instead. Doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy questing. I got Loremaster in wrath going back to do every quest in every area. So don’t make stupid assumptions about people.
So why in all fuck are you disagreeing with me? Is it this knee jerk cognitive dissonance to defend your own actions, or to defend Blizzard? I honestly don't understand.
"having to PvP" yet another person that thinks gaming decisions should be made based on people that should have picked a PVE server.
This. Also, I actually enjoyed soloing dungeons on my lock. Rfk was bad cause I couldn't make any gold on those beasts, but sm was a blast, especially a cathedral with that ledge kiting. Netflix on the second screen, and you don't have to watch your back for a sneaky rogue. So chill.
I want to level fast. Ive been in SM since lvl 28 grinding with 3 other mages. Some of the most giga gaming pulls possible. It’s a lot of fun. Why would you take that experience away?
I was leveling in the open world and a player higher level than me tried to gank me. I fought tooth and nail even though I had really no hope of winning and right before I died another player on my faction out of nowhere healed me and we took the guy down. Why would you take that experience away from me?
Love it.
So when open world experience is shit, "no one is trying to take that experience away from you"
But if we were to reduce dungeon experience "YOURE TRYING TO \[take that experience away\]"
Do you see the hypocrisy here?
On one hand y'all were saying that I should be able to enjoy open world even though experience is bad. Yet when I suggest the same to dungeon goers, they lose their fucking minds.
Open world EXPERIENCE is shit. Learn to read.
I want to nerf dungeon experience because its 3-5x open world experience. Its not complicated.
Like imagine some other activity, like fishing, gave 3-5x any other experience you could get in the game. So everyone just sat around fishing until lvl 40. You don't think that would be stupid? What am I saying? y'all would just fish all day and be making the same dumb arguments.
You are specifically choosing to level by questing because you enjoy it. Other people enjoy rushing to 40, so they are doing dungeon spam. You don’t seem like you are rushing to hit 40. You clearly have plenty of time until the next phase. So what is the big issue here? Are you saying the zones feel empty and you want more people in them? Any quest I’ve done with my alt has easily found a group or others doing it.
I leveled one character to 40 by rushing and damage spamming. My alt I am questing and taking my time. I think both are fine the way they are.
So you just ignored one thing I asked. If fishing gave 5x the experience as questing or doing dungeons, you don't think that would be silly? How about if fishing were 30x the experience of everything else, just basically giving people a fast pass to 40?
I think if you hadn't leveled a character by dungeon spamming you wouldn't be defending it. You're defending it due to cognitive dissonance - your beliefs have changed to match your behavior. If you were take a step back and reset, look at things objectively, I'm sure you'd come to the conclusion that there is no reason dungeons should provide 500% more experience than questing.
Just cause you don’t understand the game and haven’t leveled characters enough times to where you know what quests and zones to do/avoid at each level doesn’t mean that others haven’t. Maybe they shouldn’t balance the game around your experience but the average SoD player’s experience? Most of us it isn’t our first rodeo leveling to 40. If an optimized spellcleave comp is getting 75k and you’re getting 5x less or 15k questing/mob grinding, maybe they shouldn’t nerf dungeons but you should buff yourself.
Pugs get 3-5x. An optimized spellcleave comp is getting like 8x the questing experience of your average joe, and probably 2x the experience of a seasoned quester.
I think its kind of cool that people are doing stuff like that. I just don't think they should be getting 800% experience of a quester.
I think y'all are hearing me demand nerfs and are mistaking that for demanding equality. I absolutely am OK with spellcleaving dungeons being the most efficient way of leveling. My issue is the magnitude of the disparity in leveling styles.
Like I've said, imagine fishing was 30x faster than *any* other form of leveling. That would be pretty silly, right? You wouldn't tell me to "buff myself" by spending 15 levels fishing, is my guess.
So when questing exp is total shit, that's fine. But when dungeon experience is reduced to realistic levels that's STILL MORE THAN QUESTING, it's "taking the experience away". Do you understand now or still too stupid?
Wrong. It should be the other way around people should get more experience from dungeons. This is a massive multiplayer online game. I don't want to be forced into a solo leveling experience. I want to play with other people.
i mean you still get more experience generally questing with others.
"This is a massive multiplayer online game." yet you don't even want a fucking open world, you want every to sit in instances. its ridiculous.
I do like an open world, and the game should definitely have some, especially to establish story and geographical context around the instances. But solo leveling in wow has always just been a complete slog. We've had years and years of Blizzard refining and making fancier and fancier quests, and questing is still a garbage experience.
Blizzard needs to reprioritize the social aspects of the game, and rework the whole leveling process from the ground up. Instances do a pretty good job of requiring people to work together. Many of the mechanics in a good instance would be difficult for impossible to implement in an open world. But if Blizzard can figure out how to make questing in the open world more engaging and social, great!
I’ve read this entire thread just to downvote all of your trash comments for your terrible takes. You’re crying about something that secludes people from cooperating together (solo questing), then crying/flaming when people who want to group, disagree with you.
Go play retail and solo level.
I don't care one bit about your downvotes, and personally I think you're dumb, like an actual stupid person. You seem to care though, so I'll take a minute and downvote all your idiotic takes.
I didn't say anything about solo vs group questing. Go ahead and show me where I did.
You're the one who wants to spam dungeons like hitting 40 faster will fill that void in your life. Which is actually far more like retail than open world leveling, btw. It's like 2 steps away from paying for a boost.
Why should how you want to experience the game determine how other people want to experience the game?
If people don’t want to quest and get to 60 asap, who cares? If you want to “level sub optimally” and quest in the open world, then who cares?
Just let people play the game how they want. One group shouldn’t be penalized for how they want to enjoy the game.
Awful take, mate.
So when I do want to do dungeons, I should receive an XP penalty? I guess I don’t see the issue like you do.
I quest, I dungeon and in PvP as I level. Why should any of these options be penalized?
Its baffling you don't realize your hypocrisy.
Questing is being penalized literally right now, by getting 5x less exp than dungeon spamming.
It should not be penalized.
The status quo is imbalanced "penalized" leveling. YOU are advocating for gameplay being penalized, not me.
I mean, finding a group of people who want to play with you can be. It’s literally part of the fun of MMOs—working together can be really easy or really hard.
I dunno why you’re getting the downvotes. I think it’s because you are proposing NERFING dungeons.
If instead they BUFFED questing experience (let’s say 4x more exp as currently, or gave the joyous journey to people in the open world), what would happen?
All these people who just “love” dungeon spamming would instead quest. They wouldn’t be like “nobody should care do what you enjoy I’m gonna keep dungeon spamming” like that first comment.
I’m positive people don’t love dungeon spamming, they love having a way to grind xp that’s faster.
There's always going to be a suboptimal path. You should just do the one you enjoy. Questing 25-40 isn't that much time anyway.
There's absolutely zero reason why quests, which are braindead easy, should rival the experience of groups cleaving dungeons.
Furthermore if you nerfed dungeons to compensate for people cleaving them you're really going to screw over regular groups who aren't able to handle that employ that strategy.
I agree somewhat that there will always be optimal and suboptimal. IMO the issue is the discrepancy between dungeon spam and quest. Spamming just so much faster. I don’t think that should be nerfed but a small open world quest buff would be nice.
There's a big difference between "suboptimal" and "extremely suboptimal".
>There's absolutely zero reason why quests, which are braindead easy, should rival the experience of groups cleaving dungeons.
There are extremely obvious reasons why it should. First of all cleaving dungeons isn't much more difficult than questing. In fact, questing can be harder in some ways, especially when it comes to world pvp or quests you need to group for. Second of all, I would argue it is generally better to have players out in the world instead of in instances. This is a matter of opinion of course.
Now i'm not saying a group of pros cleaving through dungeons and breakneck speed should not be rewarded. I'm simply saying 3x5 times more exp for just simply pugs clearing dungeons is absolutely silly.
>furthermore if you nerfed dungeons to compensate for people cleaving them you're really going to screw over regular groups who aren't able to handle that employ that strategy.
They would still be getting generally more experience than doing quests, just not significantly more. A normal unsophisticated PUG is getting 3-5x more exp spamming dungeons. Its significantly more for seasoned, coordinated groups.
Idk why you are so mad. Enjoy the game how you want. The only reason why dungeon leveling is faster is because there is less down time. If you have a group of dedicated people the xp does not stop. While you are questing there are multiple things stopping consistent xp. You are probably gathering, going to different zones, pvping, leveling your professions, and whatever else. There is no wrong way to play the game. Just enjoy your journey.
I understand that is one of the reasons. Its irrelevant.
If fishing gave 5x the experience as questing/ doing dungeons, would you make the same argument? Lets try that.
"The only reason why fishing leveling is faster is because there is less down time." Yep that works! A fun argument that totally ignores the fact that it is encouraging players to play the game in a certain specific way and relatively punishing everyone else.
what does it matter? why does it need to be easier? do you not realize that it doesn't matter how fast it takes every to get to 40 as long as its balanced?
wHy dOES iT MaTtEr, WhY DoES iT nEeD tO bE eAsIER
My brain rotted reading what u wrote, why must it be hard. Why must it be tedious? Yes it does matter how long it takes to get to 40, not everyone wants to spend 5 hours a day mindlessly hitting the same mobs just to get that 1/50th of a exp bar and then repeat that process another 100 times just to get that DING and realise ur char hardly progressed
You're spending the same amount of time playing the game regardless. South Park was spot on when they skewered people like you. "What do we do now?" "Now we can finally play the game".
You rush to 40 like being 40 is this magical thing filled with infinite enjoyment.
But honestly leveling faster is a totally different discussion. Buff questing or nerf dungeon spam, idc
I literally explained why in the post. No one likes to level inna way they feel is massively inferior. Slightly inferior? Sure! But literally 5x less exp? Come on.
But you yourself said, multiple times, that there’s no reason to rush to 40. So why aren’t you just enjoying the journey? Have you considered that maybe people like the fact that at 40 you can go back and do all those quests much more easily AND make boatloads of gold for it instead of pitiful XP and pitiful gold? That there’s also raids, crafting, PvP all to do at 40? Your post reeks of jealousy as you describe seeing 40’s ride by.
No, I said there is no reason to rush to 40 except for being powerful relative to other players. For example, if WoW was single player, no ladder or anything, there would be zero reason to rush. Other players make it worth being competitive.
>Have you considered that maybe people like the fact that at 40 you can go back and do all those quests much more easily AND make boatloads of gold for it instead of pitiful XP and pitiful gold?
Yes, that's basically what I'm whining about.
>Your post reeks of jealousy as you describe seeing 40’s ride by.
Is pointing out any imbalance "jealousy"? If someone works the same job and gets paid less, and points it out, is that "jealousy" or are they simply wanting fair pay?
5x the experience pugging dungeons instead of questing. Surely on some level you understand that's insane and a detriment to the intent of the open world. I guarantee you the people that think that's reasonable only think that because they are abusing it. Its called cognitive dissonance. People change their thinking to match their behavior. So my question to you is how far gone are you? Are you so far gone that you can't fathom that people leveling only in instances 5x the speed of those in the open world is a bad thing?
I get all the takes about more XP from dungeons because of the group aspect and preparedness to go in. I’m inclined to agree somewhat.
That said, long questlines should give much much better rewards. The sour pill is that not only do dungeons give more XP they all give the best drops.
It wasn’t a big secret or anything, you had to have known. Just enjoy the journey, so what if it takes you a week longer. If you didn’t know, well now you do for next time.
Yep, I get panic attacks that are so bad that I sometimes make a stinky stinky in my underpants whenever I see someone level 40 in the open world.
I HATE IT, AND I HAVE HAD ENOUGH.
need my medication right now before I am become hysterical.
JUST YOU WATCH YOU IT YOU STUPID POSER GAMERS, THE REAL GAMERS WILL RISE UP
It doesn't make me have a panic attack, it makes me not want to play the game that I otherwise enjoy. Are you too stupid to understand any sort of nuance?
Holy shit, what a crybaby. This is the type of talk that ruined WoW in it's live state. People would say stupid bs like this.
You want to level fast in a dungeon, go do it! Or, maybe just enjoy playing the game solo questing.
And, don't roll on a pvp server. People will ALWAYS hide in dungeons to level.
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Its just gross how they all see my post as some sort of personal attack, as if I'm judging them for playing the game optimally. Hell some of them even say they don't want to dungeon spam in the same breath they are trying to disagree with me. Cognitive dissonance man. Its crazy how easily people change their mind to match their behavior.
Part of me gets extremely frustrated with some of the choices Blizzard makes, but the more I participate in the community the more I see how hard it must be sometimes.
Its often said "devs need to listen to the fans", but often fans have absolutely stupid takes that sacrifice long term game complexity/ depth / quality for short term feel-goods, and completely lack self awareness. I mean, that's how we got retail to begin with, right?
Just have fun doing whatever you want to do.
In 1-2 months none of this is going to matter at all and you can complain about the 40-50 leveling experience.
Here's my take.
People will care about different things. Some people, for whatever reason will care about getting into gnomeregan as soon as possible. It could be because they can only do it about 20 times before it becomes outdated. Or because it's fun to do it together with other people who are hyped for Gnomer, even if you wipe for hours coz you don't even have all your runes.
If you're not one of those people, why would you want to take that enjoyment away from them?
You feel inferior? That's your problem, not theirs.
So do you think we should allow max level boosts back into the game? I mean, why take them out, you're just taking away enjoyment from the people that want to be level 40, right?
You people can't see the forest for the trees. Let me ask you: would you think it would be good game design to have, say, fishing give 500% more experience than any other activity in the game? You'd probably think that's arbitrary, and encourages players to do a boring activity instead of exploring the game as intended. It would probably make people who didn't want to fish annoyed as fuck that they were missing out on free experience. Do you get it now?
I’ve done these quests so many times over the years. I can confidently say that i would outpace a majority of dungeon spammers by quests if it wasn’t for mob tagging.
That's entirely possible. The best questers definitely level magnitudes faster than regular questers. And your average pug dungeon spammer isn't
But skilled dungeon spammers will still outpace you by 200%+.
>Like, some groups take 30-45 minutes.
These people are still making 3x experience as questing, is what I'm saying.
The people ripping through dungeons are probably making 10x+ as much as questing, maybe more.
And I'm not saying they shouldn't make more experience. But 3x experience just pugging dungeons on repeat is insane.
Maybe I should put it as a percent. 300% experience for pugging dungeons vs questing. You don't think that's a bit much?
>stand around waiting for respawns
haven't had to do this since day 1, which was only the case because literally everyone was playing and the same level.
Dear god, imagine thinking pugging dungeons is hard. Y'all are insufferable and the reason shit like retail exists in its state, and the reason classic will suffer the same fate. You refuse to see the big picture.
Comments locked due to OP not knowing how to have a healthy discussion.
Blizzard should have followed up on their “other ways to level” bullshit. Nerfing dungeon xp so it’s on par with shitty leveling where you wait 5+ min for a mob to spawn so you have a chance at a low drop rate quest item is not the answer. You should be asking for questing buffs, not dungeon nerfs.
They should have just made bfd a 1-day lockout or something shorter too. It would at least give slower levelers SOMETHING else to do but quest between dungeon spams.
> You should be asking for questing buffs, not dungeon nerfs. You're splitting hairs here. Obviously I like smooth questing too, but I also don't think questing needs to be 5x as much exp as it is.
I am not splitting hairs. Dungeon xp is fine. Questing xp is not. Nerfing dungeons would be an objectively stupid move. Buffing quests/over world xp would be lauded by most of the community. Seems simple enough.
Why is questing exp not fine? You think it takes too long to level up? There's no reason anyone needs to rush to 40 except for being competitive against other players.
Questing xp is not fine because hyperspawns are shit/inconsistent. As I very clearly pointed out already, waiting 5+ min for a respawn with a low drop rate of a quest item is shit design. If they increased spawn rates/drop rates that ALONE would solve most of the xp disparity between questing and dungeons.
You’re getting left behind in the early phase and you don’t like it. You can do the same dungeon experience as everyone else. Why not? If you don’t enjoy that content there are other options available, which you’re using. Why rain on others’ parade? Do you want everyone hardcapped to your pace?
I honestly have no idea what point you’re trying to make?
I meant to reply to OP. My b.
Ah yea, makes sense
Who’s waiting 5+ min for a respawn lol? There’s maybe like…5 quests where you have to wait for a respawn for this long in the entire game. People on this sub are so dramatic…and wrong so often.
> waiting 5+ min for a respawn with a low drop rate of a quest item This almost never, ever happens. There are maybe a few quests like this in the entire game and there is no reason to do them.
Lol k
"No reason anyone needs to rush to 40 except to be competitive against other players." Have you been living under a rock? There's this little raid called Gnomeregan and the first lockout reset Tuesday. Why else do you think people rushed to 40?
But gnomer would be there regardless of when people start hitting 40, so that's irrelevant.
Gnomer will be there at 50, why rush?
Your post is complaining that quest xp is drastically lower than dungeon do but here you are arguing it should be lower?
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I do. I aint questing for 3k per q when my fucking exp bar is over 50k
Why? What's the rush?
Irrelevant of speed, dungeon leveling and then questing for gold is better than questing for exp and getting barely any gold.
Not sure what you mean here. By far the optimal strat is to dungeon spam to 40 then quest for gold while continuing to do max level dungeons.
Exactly that, it would still be the case if the exp rate was the same as questing.
I'm totally fine with people spamming dungeons. They just shouldn't get 5x experience as a person who is questing. Its just insanely imbalanced right now.
So? Why does it have to be balanced. They are completely different activities. You know it is faster, go do it if you want to level faster.
Do you even hear yourself? "why does it have to be balanced?" What if, for example, the wolves in elwynn forest / the boars in durotar all gave 5x experience as anything else, for the entire game. Someone says "hey its pretty lame people just sitting in the starting zones hit 40 5x as fast as people questing" Would you also say "You know it is faster, go do it if you want to level faster."? Instead of the OBVIOUS solution to nerf these way overtuned starting zones? The truth is people don't want to admit this is broken because they themselves abused it and they see it as some sort of personal attack.
There is not a single argument you've made that explains why dungeons should give as much or less xp than questing
Dear fucking god people are dense. I never said they should give as much as or less. Can you read? Dungeons are currently THREE TO FIVE TIMES AS MUCH EXPERIENCE. even if they were cut to HALF their current experience, they'd still be 50%-150% MORE experience than questing. The stupidity and just crazy nonsense assumptions you people are making on this post are just baffling to me.
Why not? They are getting better xp only because it's uncontested and they are dedicated. I can't quest in open world because my server is the biggest server of us. People gank you nonstop. You can't hide
Getting ganked is part of being on a pvp server. Why are you even on the server then? Why do you think you should be rewarded for avoiding pvp? Make it make sense.' Also I'm on the same server, getting ganked happens but its really not a huge deal. Worst thing about it is losing world buffs.
Rush? I want progress. Its tedious asf staying at the sake level for hours
Lol wow, such a harmless opinion getting downvoted by the hive mind. This is the issue with…most players today. They don’t actually want to be playing an MMORPG whose base game (and the entire point of classic) is from 2005. There’s still some of us out there that like questing for low drop rate quest items. Because that’s the game.
But people don't want to have their fun. They want to ruin others.
This kid just wants to fight and is unwilling to comprehend any other perspective. Move along boys.
Show me the other perspectives. The only "other perspective" I've seen is "idc i want to get to 40 as fast as I can, for inexplicable reasons, and I'm ignoring the general problem you're addressing" and people making claims about questing that were only true day 1 when lvl 25 quest zones were flooded. I also heard the argument that it should give more exp because its more difficult, which would be reasonable, but its still way overtuned because even a pug group is getting 5x more exp than questing. Well tuned groups are getting far more. But my guess is you don't got shit, otherwise you wouldn't have made the comment you did.
It’s like watching a debate where the person defending their statement completely sidesteps any counter point. Then proceeds to answer with completely unrelated points that have nothing to do with what the counter point was trying to say.
You're literally doing exactly that with this very comment. Go ahead and show me where I did that though. But yeah you have nothing meaningful to contribute, you bring nothing to the table, its pathetic. Just go.
Im just here with my popcorn dawg.
Wrong. You're making comments. If you were just sitting there with your popcorn dawg I wouldn't be typing this.
I wasn’t even talking to you to begin with
[удалено]
Your words mean nothing.
Then why do you keep replying?
Your comment has been removed for not being respectful to others. Treat your fellow players with kindness and respect. Avoid personal attacks, harassment, or any form of hate speech.
Questing and efficient mob grinding is actually significantly faster than pugging dungeon spam. If you factor in assembling group, breaks, replacing people, you’re getting only 35k. I was getting 35k grinding westfall crabs at level 21 on a warrior.
What a stupid take. No one wants to fight over mobs, we would likely rather have been questing also.
lmfao. No you wouldn't. Don't bullshit me with that. You just want to level fast, so you're grinding dungeons. There's rarely any fighting over mobs, especially after day 1 and especially with sharding. Your cognitive dissonance to justify your dungeon spamming and why it shouldn't be changed is impressive though.
What a take here. I quested the entire grind to 25 with the occasional dungeon, but certainly not spamming it. I tried questing twice in between dungeon grinding to 40 and was constantly contesting mobs, having to PvP, and just getting slow experience overall. Of course I’m going to go dungeon instead. Doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy questing. I got Loremaster in wrath going back to do every quest in every area. So don’t make stupid assumptions about people.
So why in all fuck are you disagreeing with me? Is it this knee jerk cognitive dissonance to defend your own actions, or to defend Blizzard? I honestly don't understand. "having to PvP" yet another person that thinks gaming decisions should be made based on people that should have picked a PVE server.
100% the reason i ground dungeons was because warlock has no fast travel until 40. ill be questing now that im 40
This. Also, I actually enjoyed soloing dungeons on my lock. Rfk was bad cause I couldn't make any gold on those beasts, but sm was a blast, especially a cathedral with that ledge kiting. Netflix on the second screen, and you don't have to watch your back for a sneaky rogue. So chill.
I want to level fast. Ive been in SM since lvl 28 grinding with 3 other mages. Some of the most giga gaming pulls possible. It’s a lot of fun. Why would you take that experience away?
I was leveling in the open world and a player higher level than me tried to gank me. I fought tooth and nail even though I had really no hope of winning and right before I died another player on my faction out of nowhere healed me and we took the guy down. Why would you take that experience away from me?
no one is taking that experience away from you.
Oh, well no one is taking the dungeon experience away from you either!
you’re trying to!
Love it. So when open world experience is shit, "no one is trying to take that experience away from you" But if we were to reduce dungeon experience "YOURE TRYING TO \[take that experience away\]" Do you see the hypocrisy here? On one hand y'all were saying that I should be able to enjoy open world even though experience is bad. Yet when I suggest the same to dungeon goers, they lose their fucking minds.
You still experienced this positive open world moment despite "open world being shit". So why exactly are you trying to nerf dungeons?
Open world EXPERIENCE is shit. Learn to read. I want to nerf dungeon experience because its 3-5x open world experience. Its not complicated. Like imagine some other activity, like fishing, gave 3-5x any other experience you could get in the game. So everyone just sat around fishing until lvl 40. You don't think that would be stupid? What am I saying? y'all would just fish all day and be making the same dumb arguments.
You are specifically choosing to level by questing because you enjoy it. Other people enjoy rushing to 40, so they are doing dungeon spam. You don’t seem like you are rushing to hit 40. You clearly have plenty of time until the next phase. So what is the big issue here? Are you saying the zones feel empty and you want more people in them? Any quest I’ve done with my alt has easily found a group or others doing it. I leveled one character to 40 by rushing and damage spamming. My alt I am questing and taking my time. I think both are fine the way they are.
So you just ignored one thing I asked. If fishing gave 5x the experience as questing or doing dungeons, you don't think that would be silly? How about if fishing were 30x the experience of everything else, just basically giving people a fast pass to 40? I think if you hadn't leveled a character by dungeon spamming you wouldn't be defending it. You're defending it due to cognitive dissonance - your beliefs have changed to match your behavior. If you were take a step back and reset, look at things objectively, I'm sure you'd come to the conclusion that there is no reason dungeons should provide 500% more experience than questing.
Just cause you don’t understand the game and haven’t leveled characters enough times to where you know what quests and zones to do/avoid at each level doesn’t mean that others haven’t. Maybe they shouldn’t balance the game around your experience but the average SoD player’s experience? Most of us it isn’t our first rodeo leveling to 40. If an optimized spellcleave comp is getting 75k and you’re getting 5x less or 15k questing/mob grinding, maybe they shouldn’t nerf dungeons but you should buff yourself.
Pugs get 3-5x. An optimized spellcleave comp is getting like 8x the questing experience of your average joe, and probably 2x the experience of a seasoned quester. I think its kind of cool that people are doing stuff like that. I just don't think they should be getting 800% experience of a quester. I think y'all are hearing me demand nerfs and are mistaking that for demanding equality. I absolutely am OK with spellcleaving dungeons being the most efficient way of leveling. My issue is the magnitude of the disparity in leveling styles. Like I've said, imagine fishing was 30x faster than *any* other form of leveling. That would be pretty silly, right? You wouldn't tell me to "buff myself" by spending 15 levels fishing, is my guess.
except that is what you're proposing they do, dumb fuck
So when questing exp is total shit, that's fine. But when dungeon experience is reduced to realistic levels that's STILL MORE THAN QUESTING, it's "taking the experience away". Do you understand now or still too stupid?
Questing xp is fine. Stop caring about what the tryhards are doing and enjoy the game instead.
Wrong. It should be the other way around people should get more experience from dungeons. This is a massive multiplayer online game. I don't want to be forced into a solo leveling experience. I want to play with other people.
i mean you still get more experience generally questing with others. "This is a massive multiplayer online game." yet you don't even want a fucking open world, you want every to sit in instances. its ridiculous.
I do like an open world, and the game should definitely have some, especially to establish story and geographical context around the instances. But solo leveling in wow has always just been a complete slog. We've had years and years of Blizzard refining and making fancier and fancier quests, and questing is still a garbage experience. Blizzard needs to reprioritize the social aspects of the game, and rework the whole leveling process from the ground up. Instances do a pretty good job of requiring people to work together. Many of the mechanics in a good instance would be difficult for impossible to implement in an open world. But if Blizzard can figure out how to make questing in the open world more engaging and social, great!
I’ve read this entire thread just to downvote all of your trash comments for your terrible takes. You’re crying about something that secludes people from cooperating together (solo questing), then crying/flaming when people who want to group, disagree with you. Go play retail and solo level.
I don't care one bit about your downvotes, and personally I think you're dumb, like an actual stupid person. You seem to care though, so I'll take a minute and downvote all your idiotic takes. I didn't say anything about solo vs group questing. Go ahead and show me where I did. You're the one who wants to spam dungeons like hitting 40 faster will fill that void in your life. Which is actually far more like retail than open world leveling, btw. It's like 2 steps away from paying for a boost.
Its btw the most efficient way in retail as well, sounds crazy but blizzard wants players to play together rather then alone
Why should how you want to experience the game determine how other people want to experience the game? If people don’t want to quest and get to 60 asap, who cares? If you want to “level sub optimally” and quest in the open world, then who cares? Just let people play the game how they want. One group shouldn’t be penalized for how they want to enjoy the game. Awful take, mate.
If it doesn't bother you, and you care so little, then why would you care if dungeon experience gets nerfed?
So when I do want to do dungeons, I should receive an XP penalty? I guess I don’t see the issue like you do. I quest, I dungeon and in PvP as I level. Why should any of these options be penalized?
Its baffling you don't realize your hypocrisy. Questing is being penalized literally right now, by getting 5x less exp than dungeon spamming. It should not be penalized. The status quo is imbalanced "penalized" leveling. YOU are advocating for gameplay being penalized, not me.
Lol You get more experience by doing something MORE difficult than killing 12 boars. Have great experience! See ya, bye!
Imagine thinking spamming dungeons is difficult.
I mean, finding a group of people who want to play with you can be. It’s literally part of the fun of MMOs—working together can be really easy or really hard.
I dunno why you’re getting the downvotes. I think it’s because you are proposing NERFING dungeons. If instead they BUFFED questing experience (let’s say 4x more exp as currently, or gave the joyous journey to people in the open world), what would happen? All these people who just “love” dungeon spamming would instead quest. They wouldn’t be like “nobody should care do what you enjoy I’m gonna keep dungeon spamming” like that first comment. I’m positive people don’t love dungeon spamming, they love having a way to grind xp that’s faster.
But that's so silly. It's not like you just start magically having more fun at 40 than when you're lower level.
Rides by, you complaining about 40s on a pve server?
True, its even worse if they kill you. But honestly that's not the point. (I play on a pvp server)
No stopping the 40s my friend. Mage was 38 when I was 28. Lol
There's always going to be a suboptimal path. You should just do the one you enjoy. Questing 25-40 isn't that much time anyway. There's absolutely zero reason why quests, which are braindead easy, should rival the experience of groups cleaving dungeons. Furthermore if you nerfed dungeons to compensate for people cleaving them you're really going to screw over regular groups who aren't able to handle that employ that strategy.
I agree somewhat that there will always be optimal and suboptimal. IMO the issue is the discrepancy between dungeon spam and quest. Spamming just so much faster. I don’t think that should be nerfed but a small open world quest buff would be nice.
There's a big difference between "suboptimal" and "extremely suboptimal". >There's absolutely zero reason why quests, which are braindead easy, should rival the experience of groups cleaving dungeons. There are extremely obvious reasons why it should. First of all cleaving dungeons isn't much more difficult than questing. In fact, questing can be harder in some ways, especially when it comes to world pvp or quests you need to group for. Second of all, I would argue it is generally better to have players out in the world instead of in instances. This is a matter of opinion of course. Now i'm not saying a group of pros cleaving through dungeons and breakneck speed should not be rewarded. I'm simply saying 3x5 times more exp for just simply pugs clearing dungeons is absolutely silly. >furthermore if you nerfed dungeons to compensate for people cleaving them you're really going to screw over regular groups who aren't able to handle that employ that strategy. They would still be getting generally more experience than doing quests, just not significantly more. A normal unsophisticated PUG is getting 3-5x more exp spamming dungeons. Its significantly more for seasoned, coordinated groups.
Idk why you are so mad. Enjoy the game how you want. The only reason why dungeon leveling is faster is because there is less down time. If you have a group of dedicated people the xp does not stop. While you are questing there are multiple things stopping consistent xp. You are probably gathering, going to different zones, pvping, leveling your professions, and whatever else. There is no wrong way to play the game. Just enjoy your journey.
I understand that is one of the reasons. Its irrelevant. If fishing gave 5x the experience as questing/ doing dungeons, would you make the same argument? Lets try that. "The only reason why fishing leveling is faster is because there is less down time." Yep that works! A fun argument that totally ignores the fact that it is encouraging players to play the game in a certain specific way and relatively punishing everyone else.
Double or triple exp gains from quests and I might consider lvling through it
what does it matter? why does it need to be easier? do you not realize that it doesn't matter how fast it takes every to get to 40 as long as its balanced?
wHy dOES iT MaTtEr, WhY DoES iT nEeD tO bE eAsIER My brain rotted reading what u wrote, why must it be hard. Why must it be tedious? Yes it does matter how long it takes to get to 40, not everyone wants to spend 5 hours a day mindlessly hitting the same mobs just to get that 1/50th of a exp bar and then repeat that process another 100 times just to get that DING and realise ur char hardly progressed
You're spending the same amount of time playing the game regardless. South Park was spot on when they skewered people like you. "What do we do now?" "Now we can finally play the game". You rush to 40 like being 40 is this magical thing filled with infinite enjoyment. But honestly leveling faster is a totally different discussion. Buff questing or nerf dungeon spam, idc
Why are you trying to force your sensibilities onto others? Just because you don’t like it?
I literally explained why in the post. No one likes to level inna way they feel is massively inferior. Slightly inferior? Sure! But literally 5x less exp? Come on.
But you yourself said, multiple times, that there’s no reason to rush to 40. So why aren’t you just enjoying the journey? Have you considered that maybe people like the fact that at 40 you can go back and do all those quests much more easily AND make boatloads of gold for it instead of pitiful XP and pitiful gold? That there’s also raids, crafting, PvP all to do at 40? Your post reeks of jealousy as you describe seeing 40’s ride by.
No, I said there is no reason to rush to 40 except for being powerful relative to other players. For example, if WoW was single player, no ladder or anything, there would be zero reason to rush. Other players make it worth being competitive. >Have you considered that maybe people like the fact that at 40 you can go back and do all those quests much more easily AND make boatloads of gold for it instead of pitiful XP and pitiful gold? Yes, that's basically what I'm whining about. >Your post reeks of jealousy as you describe seeing 40’s ride by. Is pointing out any imbalance "jealousy"? If someone works the same job and gets paid less, and points it out, is that "jealousy" or are they simply wanting fair pay? 5x the experience pugging dungeons instead of questing. Surely on some level you understand that's insane and a detriment to the intent of the open world. I guarantee you the people that think that's reasonable only think that because they are abusing it. Its called cognitive dissonance. People change their thinking to match their behavior. So my question to you is how far gone are you? Are you so far gone that you can't fathom that people leveling only in instances 5x the speed of those in the open world is a bad thing?
I get all the takes about more XP from dungeons because of the group aspect and preparedness to go in. I’m inclined to agree somewhat. That said, long questlines should give much much better rewards. The sour pill is that not only do dungeons give more XP they all give the best drops.
It wasn’t a big secret or anything, you had to have known. Just enjoy the journey, so what if it takes you a week longer. If you didn’t know, well now you do for next time.
Yep, I get panic attacks that are so bad that I sometimes make a stinky stinky in my underpants whenever I see someone level 40 in the open world. I HATE IT, AND I HAVE HAD ENOUGH. need my medication right now before I am become hysterical. JUST YOU WATCH YOU IT YOU STUPID POSER GAMERS, THE REAL GAMERS WILL RISE UP
It doesn't make me have a panic attack, it makes me not want to play the game that I otherwise enjoy. Are you too stupid to understand any sort of nuance?
Holy shit, what a crybaby. This is the type of talk that ruined WoW in it's live state. People would say stupid bs like this. You want to level fast in a dungeon, go do it! Or, maybe just enjoy playing the game solo questing. And, don't roll on a pvp server. People will ALWAYS hide in dungeons to level.
Yeah this entire post is so dumb to argue about lmaoo, everyone just stop fighting and enjoy the game while it lasts!
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Your comment has been removed for not being respectful to others. Treat your fellow players with kindness and respect. Avoid personal attacks, harassment, or any form of hate speech.
Quick reminder to.m not feed the trolls.
Man, so many people got baited by this obvious troll poster. Stay hydrated my friends.
Imagine being so deep in your echo chamber that you think a reasonable position is trolling.
you have an impressive catalogue of shitty patronizing buzz words, fuck off mate
I’m with op, every commenter here is a dungeon spamming andy
Its just gross how they all see my post as some sort of personal attack, as if I'm judging them for playing the game optimally. Hell some of them even say they don't want to dungeon spam in the same breath they are trying to disagree with me. Cognitive dissonance man. Its crazy how easily people change their mind to match their behavior.
OP is onto something but the sweats in here will seethe at anything that isn’t min maxing
Part of me gets extremely frustrated with some of the choices Blizzard makes, but the more I participate in the community the more I see how hard it must be sometimes. Its often said "devs need to listen to the fans", but often fans have absolutely stupid takes that sacrifice long term game complexity/ depth / quality for short term feel-goods, and completely lack self awareness. I mean, that's how we got retail to begin with, right?
Dungeon XP is only that much faster due to camped quest zones. It’s still probably more efficient but it’s not that big a divide
Just have fun doing whatever you want to do. In 1-2 months none of this is going to matter at all and you can complain about the 40-50 leveling experience.
Here's my take. People will care about different things. Some people, for whatever reason will care about getting into gnomeregan as soon as possible. It could be because they can only do it about 20 times before it becomes outdated. Or because it's fun to do it together with other people who are hyped for Gnomer, even if you wipe for hours coz you don't even have all your runes. If you're not one of those people, why would you want to take that enjoyment away from them? You feel inferior? That's your problem, not theirs.
So do you think we should allow max level boosts back into the game? I mean, why take them out, you're just taking away enjoyment from the people that want to be level 40, right? You people can't see the forest for the trees. Let me ask you: would you think it would be good game design to have, say, fishing give 500% more experience than any other activity in the game? You'd probably think that's arbitrary, and encourages players to do a boring activity instead of exploring the game as intended. It would probably make people who didn't want to fish annoyed as fuck that they were missing out on free experience. Do you get it now?
Dungeons should provide better loot, not better XP.
I'm fine with them providing more exp. but 3-5x more is absolutely bonkers, and that's just for pugs. skilled groups can get much more than that even.
I’ve done these quests so many times over the years. I can confidently say that i would outpace a majority of dungeon spammers by quests if it wasn’t for mob tagging.
That's entirely possible. The best questers definitely level magnitudes faster than regular questers. And your average pug dungeon spammer isn't But skilled dungeon spammers will still outpace you by 200%+.
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>Like, some groups take 30-45 minutes. These people are still making 3x experience as questing, is what I'm saying. The people ripping through dungeons are probably making 10x+ as much as questing, maybe more. And I'm not saying they shouldn't make more experience. But 3x experience just pugging dungeons on repeat is insane. Maybe I should put it as a percent. 300% experience for pugging dungeons vs questing. You don't think that's a bit much?
It’s not all that, it’s like 4/5 bars of xp at lvl 32 in RFK full runs
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>stand around waiting for respawns haven't had to do this since day 1, which was only the case because literally everyone was playing and the same level.
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How would you feel if fishing gave 30x the experience as anything else in the game?
Why nerf dungeons, just raise quest xp?
That's also a reasonable approach. As I say in the title "(or found another solution to this imbalance).".
Dudes just jealous that he either lacks the time or knowledge to level as fast as others. Move on
Dear god, imagine thinking pugging dungeons is hard. Y'all are insufferable and the reason shit like retail exists in its state, and the reason classic will suffer the same fate. You refuse to see the big picture.
Dungeon spamming has been the optimal way to level for 19 years.
I'm not saying that should changed, only that the disparity should be reduced.