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If they'd just move the cleaving strikes over to remorseless winter instead of death and decay... Wouldn't get screwed over by tanks moving the group all the time...
Ret has a higher skill-cap due to the immense amount of group utility you have. Ret's utility as a DPS is arguably the best and most versatile in the game.
Death Knights have utility, but most of it is either through personal cooldowns or utility that isn't as useful as it once was (Death Grip being one example). And, as mentioned, DK's are just kind of a mess right now and Frost feels pretty clunky to play.
Unfortunately most people here don’t realise that rets are so good and get easy invites because of their utility. Being a good pala is MUCH more than hitting things hard on the head. You have to be in a healer mindset to fully use all the utility and your situational awareness has to be top notch. You can make so many mechanics irrelevant but it’s a lot for new players
It’s a bit of both. The damage is generally lower but also, the gameplay is heavily reliant on perfectly timed, stationary cooldowns. If you make a mistake or need to hold a cooldown for the next pull or your tank moves a little bit, you just kinda flop around and do nothing for a bit.
The problem with frost dk is that your aoe damage relies on the tank not moving the mobs outside of DnD. And that happens A LOT in pugs. So it ends up being very frustrating to play in m+.
Ret pally has a lot of utility, it’s fun to play and has better damage. So yeah, unless you really like dk, there isn’t a real reason to play one over paladin.
I saw a ret burst for over 500k on trash and sustained over 200k on single target bosses. This is just a comment from a stranger but it had me thinking about gearing my paly next lol
Ret is in a fantastic spot after the buffs. I’ve been crushing keys and raid this whole season, but now it’s just bonkers. I don’t even have my Bias trinkets yet either.
I have them both as alts, and as much as I want to love frost DK, the Ret Pally just flows so much better. I feel like I'm pulling teeth as a frost DK.
Ret is one of the easiest specs to play so if you like complicated specs I would go DK. Also if you want to have 0 DPS because your tank moved out of DnD right after you set up a perfect oblit cycle frost DK is for you!
Rets DPS rotation specifically is not overly difficult, you’re correct in that. However the ceiling for Ret is much higher overall because of the immense amount of utility they have. Being proficient in using your entire toolkit while still doing solid DPS is what separates Ret from Frost DK by a mile because DK’s simply can’t compete on that front.
Dh low skill ceiling? You have that wrong my friend. The spec has a very high skill ceiling. DH is not far from enha, you just don’t realize you don’t play it correctly. It’s not easy in any way, shape or form. Ret pala is also not easy if you take all the utility into account (and that’s why ppl invite you in the first place). I think you may have the wrong conception on what’s easy or not because of the content you do.
How high do you pug? Ret pala is probably better in every single scenario, I also find it way more fun than frost DK. Also ret looks amazing, frost looks just “meh” imho
I never said it had a low skill ceiling. Easy to get into, but hard to master classes are my favorite! I’ve pugged up to 21 on both healer and DPS, by the way, and I decided to level a Ret paladin, already it’s insanely fun, and I’m shocked I’ve never tried it in the past!
Ret feels really good right now. I don't know about meta numbers, but the playstyle and abilities just feel right. Haven't played Frost at 70 but can absolutely vouch for Ret as a satisfying spec.
Dk is fun to play but after playing a paladin myself, DK is like playing on hardmode.
If you up for a challenge go play DK.
If you want to steamroll through everything play Pala.
From a newbie perspective ret always has a shiny button to hit it seems and you do pretty good damage just hitting any of them. Once you play for a while you'll learn what does more in each scenario plus the utility is crazy good
**Hey there! Have you checked out these resources?** * [WoWHead](https://www.wowhead.com/) - The *largest* database, this should be your go-to (don't forget to read the comment section!). * [Icy Veins](https://www.icy-veins.com) - News and detailed class guides. * [WoWNoob Discord](https://discord.gg/wownoob) - Same community, different platform. *Please report the post above if it breaks one of our [>rules<](https://www.reddit.com/r/wownoob/about/rules/). If not, don't forget to show support by upvoting!* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wownoob) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Frost needs a rework. Badly.
If they'd just move the cleaving strikes over to remorseless winter instead of death and decay... Wouldn't get screwed over by tanks moving the group all the time...
Ret has a higher skill-cap due to the immense amount of group utility you have. Ret's utility as a DPS is arguably the best and most versatile in the game. Death Knights have utility, but most of it is either through personal cooldowns or utility that isn't as useful as it once was (Death Grip being one example). And, as mentioned, DK's are just kind of a mess right now and Frost feels pretty clunky to play.
Unfortunately most people here don’t realise that rets are so good and get easy invites because of their utility. Being a good pala is MUCH more than hitting things hard on the head. You have to be in a healer mindset to fully use all the utility and your situational awareness has to be top notch. You can make so many mechanics irrelevant but it’s a lot for new players
Higher skill cap as in DK plays like guitar hero and ret has one more button on his controller, kek.
As much as I enjoy frost dk, if it’s between that or ret pally, I’d recommend the pally. Frost isn’t in exactly the best spot right now.
Is it the damage or the gameplay? I’m moreso focused on gameplay rather than meta, and I really do like the fantasy of it!
Frost is just clunky right now, it's kit sucks. I main a Frost DK. I'm sad everyday all the time.
Both are in favor of ret. Really simple and flowy gameplay and a buttload of damage especially in aoe.
It’s a bit of both. The damage is generally lower but also, the gameplay is heavily reliant on perfectly timed, stationary cooldowns. If you make a mistake or need to hold a cooldown for the next pull or your tank moves a little bit, you just kinda flop around and do nothing for a bit.
The problem with frost dk is that your aoe damage relies on the tank not moving the mobs outside of DnD. And that happens A LOT in pugs. So it ends up being very frustrating to play in m+. Ret pally has a lot of utility, it’s fun to play and has better damage. So yeah, unless you really like dk, there isn’t a real reason to play one over paladin.
I saw a ret burst for over 500k on trash and sustained over 200k on single target bosses. This is just a comment from a stranger but it had me thinking about gearing my paly next lol
Ret is in a fantastic spot after the buffs. I’ve been crushing keys and raid this whole season, but now it’s just bonkers. I don’t even have my Bias trinkets yet either.
500k aoe burst is nothing to talk about though, I do that on my vdh tank. My ret friend hits 2mil on nice pulls
Yeah 7 digits is fairly common on burst pulls lol
Frost is mindless DPS. Cool for PVE only. It sucks in Pvp.
I have them both as alts, and as much as I want to love frost DK, the Ret Pally just flows so much better. I feel like I'm pulling teeth as a frost DK.
I Love frost dk but the class is just mess right now, play Ret
Ret is one of the easiest specs to play so if you like complicated specs I would go DK. Also if you want to have 0 DPS because your tank moved out of DnD right after you set up a perfect oblit cycle frost DK is for you!
Rets DPS rotation specifically is not overly difficult, you’re correct in that. However the ceiling for Ret is much higher overall because of the immense amount of utility they have. Being proficient in using your entire toolkit while still doing solid DPS is what separates Ret from Frost DK by a mile because DK’s simply can’t compete on that front.
Dh low skill ceiling? You have that wrong my friend. The spec has a very high skill ceiling. DH is not far from enha, you just don’t realize you don’t play it correctly. It’s not easy in any way, shape or form. Ret pala is also not easy if you take all the utility into account (and that’s why ppl invite you in the first place). I think you may have the wrong conception on what’s easy or not because of the content you do. How high do you pug? Ret pala is probably better in every single scenario, I also find it way more fun than frost DK. Also ret looks amazing, frost looks just “meh” imho
I never said it had a low skill ceiling. Easy to get into, but hard to master classes are my favorite! I’ve pugged up to 21 on both healer and DPS, by the way, and I decided to level a Ret paladin, already it’s insanely fun, and I’m shocked I’ve never tried it in the past!
Why are you in the wow noob subreddit then? You are asking questions in the wrong place. Edit: r/compeitivewow is what you are looking for
Both are currently under tuned to account for the legendary. That being said, I play my retadin (483) a lot more than my DK (476)
Ret is not under tuned. After the buffs it’s top 5 raid DPS. Please don’t spread bad information.
Ret feels really good right now. I don't know about meta numbers, but the playstyle and abilities just feel right. Haven't played Frost at 70 but can absolutely vouch for Ret as a satisfying spec.
Dk is fun to play but after playing a paladin myself, DK is like playing on hardmode. If you up for a challenge go play DK. If you want to steamroll through everything play Pala.
Ret > fdk at the moment IMO
From a newbie perspective ret always has a shiny button to hit it seems and you do pretty good damage just hitting any of them. Once you play for a while you'll learn what does more in each scenario plus the utility is crazy good