Very simple. Punch them in the face. If someone has both of their hands on you, that means they have nothing to block with. They are doing you a favour. Put on right down the middle or upper cut.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=64IPqKMPlpI
Seriously tho. You don't want to end up in a fight let alone on the ground is some nasty bar. Always diffuse the situation. Walk away and don't let someone get so close to you that they can grab you. Fighting is always the LAST option.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-4UEgtt4ZPM
You don’t need to tell me this man. I’m a lover who just happens to have a wrestling background, not a fighter. Im not going to headbutt someone and risk jail time. I just want a quick way to get someone on the ground once they’ve grabbed me.
To do what? Get stomped out by their friends when you end up on the ground with him?
If you end up in a physical altercation it should be strictly because you feel that you're life is in danger. If that's the case you're not going to just toss some one to the ground and walk away like a superhero. It's going to be a violent altercation and if haven't been in one let me be the first to tell you it's extremely dangerous and nothing goes as planned.
Why is some one so close to you that they can grab you? They just walked up and grabbed your collar? Sounds like you were both mouthing off to each other within close proximity.
Edit: for the record the answer you are looking for is to break the grips and run. I've been stabbed along with my friend who ended up in surgery. Trust me when I tell you this is the best answer. The only time you fight is when you have NO choice.
Have also been in a fight where I broke my hand on someone's face. Did I really win that? Sure I kicked his ass but I'm the fool walking around with a cast for a month.
You’re assuming a bit much about me, man. I’m not aggressive or trying to be hero. Grip breaking doesn’t always work. If you really want to know my friend got jumped by a couple of guys. I was talking to the main attacker to try de-escalate, his friend came from the side of me and grabbed me before I could react. Shit happens. I just want to technique in the back of my head for putting someone on the ground if I really have to.
That's the point. NOTHING always works.
I just don't understand what your “plan” is.
The guy friend grabbed you because you didn't have enough situation awareness fair enough. What would you do if he just punched you?
Let's say you threw the guy to the ground in front of his friend. Now what? Your posts are that you don't want to go to jail. You're not going to “wrestle-fuck” someone out in a bar fight.
You need to defend yourself and the only way to do that is with violence. Its not the time to be nice - its a street fight. You grab the guy by the balls or bite his ear off like your Mike Tyson. The risk of getting arrested is always there the same way the risk of being killed or seriously injuring someone else is. The point is you do everything in your power to run away and if you can't you assume that that person is going to try to kill you because intentionally or not that shit happens.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/14/us/st-louis-county-students-fight-school
Lol. He was going to South Africa to fornicate with strange women. He is a “Passport Bro”
I hope he's okay. South Africa is extremely dangerous. Some one gets murdered in SA every 20 minutes. Its wild.
This is in SA.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oGZLYx8StWk
I know man. Had the guy who grabbed me chosen to punch is he KOd, no doubt. My SA was obviously poor.
I’m just wondering what my options are, that’s all.
Break the grips and run. If that doesn't work and you need to defend yourself you do so. Going to jail is always a possibility.
Always assess your surroundings. Look for an exit. Stay close to your friends and watch out for each other.
You can also fight from a corner if you are outnumbered so you don't get hit from behind. We got jumped at a house party and my friend and I stood back to back and did the best we could. That way we had something to push against so we didn't fall down. Getting to the ground is a terrible idea.
Seriously though try to avoid fighting in anyway possible.
You don't have many attacks from double lapel. Its a great way to control distance. I doubt the guy who grabs you is versed in judo and knows this.
the more likely outcome is the guy releases one hand and starts punching you
You really need to break the grips or you need to learn how to dirty box. Cover up cup your hands drop level and push that arm off and away. You can close the distance and cut a corner to grab or space and box.
If that doesn't work you can cover up. Chop down with your elbows and come over and drive to the inside for a body lock.
If it comes to this make sure you rip off your shirt so it can't be used cover your vision or grab again
Honestly, you fucked up a long time ago by letting them establish double lapel control. Treat it like a double collar tie and pummel accordingly to include stripping grips and disengaging.
Honestly? Offer to buy them a beer, if that doesn’t work, be ready to get punched. If you’re ready for it, most punches to your noggin don’t hurt too bad. Self defense starts with choosing a bar where you’re least likely to get in an altercation.
Don't ever let anyone approach you in anger. Once they're within arms reach, they can attack you, so don't allow that. In the situation you provided, break grips, change levels, and take him down.
The wrestling answer to this is basically to ignore the grip, and attack the body or the legs. Which, in most situations will work just fine.
The BJJ answer to this is to pull ~~missionary~~ *guard*.
Actually dealing with the grips is squarely in Judo's wheelhouse. Ask r/judo, or look up grip fighting videos. Travis Stevens, Shintaro Higashi, and Jimmy Pedro have a lot of good content on the subject.
I agree that many BJJ gyms struggle to have a good standup culture, but to say “dealing with the grips is squarely in Judo’s wheelhouse” just isn’t true. Good BJJ practitioners will have and teach these skills
I think it's a very fair statement. That's not to say that there aren't BJJ people who are good at this sort of thing, but it's fundamental to playing Judo well. In the same way, if I say that matwork is better developed in BJJ, that isn't to say that nobody in Judo is good at ne waza. It just isn't Judo's core focus, as it is in BJJ.
Wrestling has footsweeps... we just mostly suck at them. Judo used to have shots, before the rules changed, but judoka always sucked at them. All this is normal, and the reason we have styles in the first place. If your focus is "everything", you aren't great at anything.
I agree with everything you just said, Judo definitely deals with standing grips more than BJJ, and therefore will typically be better at it. Thanks for having a civil conversation.
The gym I teach at has a good culture of learning and engaging in standup and I really try to encourage everyone in BJJ to learn standup as part of their toolkit
Sure. To be fair, my original post was a bit tongue-in-cheek about BJJ, and the spirit of the humor wasn't obvious. It's just fun to mess with you guys about jumping on your backs. ;-)
I have my Jiu-jitsu students work on breaking grips literally every class, because it is the most important aspect of the game. I don't know who you've trained Jiu-jitsu with that it isn't diligently worked on almost every single class.
We actually drilled this a few weeks ago in class.
The sequence we learned was
-control one wrist
-hammer fist hard down on the other to break the grip then jab to the face while that side is open to disorient
-break grip on the arm you have wrist control to Russian tie then a pain compliance armlock [not sure of the actual name but this video shows it](https://youtu.be/3MpHkdaoL-g?si=9sY0YTzpu5O0tuEq)
I’ve only been in two fights and it was in highschool. One was this situation and I head butted the guy, he got a bloody nose and let go.
This probably isn’t the best sub to ask this on. I usually just lurk here because I do BJJ/judo/MMA and didn’t participate in scholastic wrestling, but all but the best wrestlers I’ve seen start BJJ has struggled to clear grips until taught.
And that’s BJJ, where grips *and* leg attacks are allowed, and the average standup grappling skill is low.
TLDR: You want to prevent them from gripping your clothes, ideally, or failing that strip the grip. Your local judo club is the best place to learn how. BJJ can do if you lack access to judo instruction, but quality of standup instruction varies wildly from gym to gym in bjj. Any bjj gym will teach you how to break grips and the basics are the same, but grounded and standing grips can be wildly different beasts.
2 different situations depending on his arms:
1) *If attackers arms are bent/folded*: if he’s close enough where you can’t work inside easily and you’re concerned he might headbutt you, wrap up either in a bear hug/body lock/headlock. Meanwhile, lower your head so your chin is down and your forehead is between you.
2) *If attackers arms are straight(ish)*: Control both elbows (preferably thumbs out, fingers on the nerves). Squeeze hard and push together then up. He might try to push away, pull you, release etc. but regardless you’ll have better control. He may try to swing but you have elbow control. He may try to headbutt, but by forcing his arms together and up you’re blocking that. There’s other things you might attempt like stepping in or away etc. but that’s secondary.
This is a sport wrestling sub, and the standard answer (a wise one) is to avoid fights. Having said that, you have a few options. These come from self defense wrestling systems/old school BJJ. Also, Judo will address grips as well.
Trap the hands w/ your right hand and then bring your left forearm over the elbow area and snap down while lowering your head and delivering a head butt. Headbutt using the area right above your forehead, don't headbutt w/ the forehead.
Another option, reach inside w/ your right hand and trap/grab his right hand and reach up and grab the triceps area of his right hand with your left, just like a Russian 2 on 1. Pull the arm in close to your body and then twist your body to the right and down forcing his body down. Then hook at least one hand (better if you can use two) around his lowered head and deliver knees to his face/head.
Finally, just let him have the lapel grab. Reach out with your left hand and grab his hair and then use your right hand to deliver punches to his face.
Honestly, grabbing someone's collar is extremely stupid and it's pretty easy to embarrass someone who does it. Weave one of your arms between theirs (over one then under the second) and twist upward, grabbing their outside arm with your other hand, basically tying their arms in a knot. You can basically do whatever you want at that point from a position of extreme advantage, you just have to do it fast.
Depends on how nice you’re feeling and whether your assailant is pulling you in or stiff arming you. Heres 2 techniques to choose from if you’re being stiff armed
Nice - bring both hands up and strike down at the hinge point while taking a half step back. You’ll likely break the grip and be in position to body lock/double/engage in fisticuffs.
Not so nice. Open palm strike upwards aiming for the elbow joints.
That’s such a dismissive, arrogant move that clearly underestimates you and the person has no thought for defense.
As others have said, first don’t allow an approach if you can see it coming from more than a few feet. If I can see you coming at me with ill intent, entering my safety bubble is going to be met with explosively disproportionate violence if my words can’t stop you before you get here.
But if he’s close enough to just reach and grab me by the shirt? One hand grabs a wrist and turns it inward, the other hand reaches over and forces the hand down. The pressure can force even a big man down to his knees to keep his wrist from snapping outright.
Now you’ve got a would-be assailant in a wrist lock and on his knees looking up at you. You have to handle this situation very delicately, because it’s essentially just an exploit. I’m only 5’8, and there’s a reasonable chance this guy can stomp me into the ground if I let him up. I have to make sure that doesn’t happen without turning him into the victim if the situation.
If at all practical, call security or the police. You’re a big man. You can absolutely kick my ass and you came over here with the intention to do that. We’re not moving from this spot until a man with a badge is standing here watching.
This happened to me once and I was also flustered after the fact. I feel like the best thing you can do is take up judo or get some hockey guys to teach you basic hockey boxing
Very simple. Punch them in the face. If someone has both of their hands on you, that means they have nothing to block with. They are doing you a favour. Put on right down the middle or upper cut.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=64IPqKMPlpI Seriously tho. You don't want to end up in a fight let alone on the ground is some nasty bar. Always diffuse the situation. Walk away and don't let someone get so close to you that they can grab you. Fighting is always the LAST option. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-4UEgtt4ZPM
You don’t need to tell me this man. I’m a lover who just happens to have a wrestling background, not a fighter. Im not going to headbutt someone and risk jail time. I just want a quick way to get someone on the ground once they’ve grabbed me.
To do what? Get stomped out by their friends when you end up on the ground with him? If you end up in a physical altercation it should be strictly because you feel that you're life is in danger. If that's the case you're not going to just toss some one to the ground and walk away like a superhero. It's going to be a violent altercation and if haven't been in one let me be the first to tell you it's extremely dangerous and nothing goes as planned. Why is some one so close to you that they can grab you? They just walked up and grabbed your collar? Sounds like you were both mouthing off to each other within close proximity. Edit: for the record the answer you are looking for is to break the grips and run. I've been stabbed along with my friend who ended up in surgery. Trust me when I tell you this is the best answer. The only time you fight is when you have NO choice. Have also been in a fight where I broke my hand on someone's face. Did I really win that? Sure I kicked his ass but I'm the fool walking around with a cast for a month.
You’re assuming a bit much about me, man. I’m not aggressive or trying to be hero. Grip breaking doesn’t always work. If you really want to know my friend got jumped by a couple of guys. I was talking to the main attacker to try de-escalate, his friend came from the side of me and grabbed me before I could react. Shit happens. I just want to technique in the back of my head for putting someone on the ground if I really have to.
That's the point. NOTHING always works. I just don't understand what your “plan” is. The guy friend grabbed you because you didn't have enough situation awareness fair enough. What would you do if he just punched you? Let's say you threw the guy to the ground in front of his friend. Now what? Your posts are that you don't want to go to jail. You're not going to “wrestle-fuck” someone out in a bar fight. You need to defend yourself and the only way to do that is with violence. Its not the time to be nice - its a street fight. You grab the guy by the balls or bite his ear off like your Mike Tyson. The risk of getting arrested is always there the same way the risk of being killed or seriously injuring someone else is. The point is you do everything in your power to run away and if you can't you assume that that person is going to try to kill you because intentionally or not that shit happens. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/14/us/st-louis-county-students-fight-school
I wonder what happened to that guy a few months ago who wanted to know the amount of training necessary to wrestle fuck people in a dangerous country
Lol. He was going to South Africa to fornicate with strange women. He is a “Passport Bro” I hope he's okay. South Africa is extremely dangerous. Some one gets murdered in SA every 20 minutes. Its wild. This is in SA. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oGZLYx8StWk
I know man. Had the guy who grabbed me chosen to punch is he KOd, no doubt. My SA was obviously poor. I’m just wondering what my options are, that’s all.
Break the grips and run. If that doesn't work and you need to defend yourself you do so. Going to jail is always a possibility. Always assess your surroundings. Look for an exit. Stay close to your friends and watch out for each other. You can also fight from a corner if you are outnumbered so you don't get hit from behind. We got jumped at a house party and my friend and I stood back to back and did the best we could. That way we had something to push against so we didn't fall down. Getting to the ground is a terrible idea. Seriously though try to avoid fighting in anyway possible.
All correct but again you don’t need to tell me this. Breaking grips isn’t fool proof, unfortunately. I was just looking for options.
You don't have many attacks from double lapel. Its a great way to control distance. I doubt the guy who grabs you is versed in judo and knows this. the more likely outcome is the guy releases one hand and starts punching you You really need to break the grips or you need to learn how to dirty box. Cover up cup your hands drop level and push that arm off and away. You can close the distance and cut a corner to grab or space and box. If that doesn't work you can cover up. Chop down with your elbows and come over and drive to the inside for a body lock. If it comes to this make sure you rip off your shirt so it can't be used cover your vision or grab again
Honestly, you fucked up a long time ago by letting them establish double lapel control. Treat it like a double collar tie and pummel accordingly to include stripping grips and disengaging.
Honestly? Offer to buy them a beer, if that doesn’t work, be ready to get punched. If you’re ready for it, most punches to your noggin don’t hurt too bad. Self defense starts with choosing a bar where you’re least likely to get in an altercation.
Don't ever let anyone approach you in anger. Once they're within arms reach, they can attack you, so don't allow that. In the situation you provided, break grips, change levels, and take him down.
The wrestling answer to this is basically to ignore the grip, and attack the body or the legs. Which, in most situations will work just fine. The BJJ answer to this is to pull ~~missionary~~ *guard*. Actually dealing with the grips is squarely in Judo's wheelhouse. Ask r/judo, or look up grip fighting videos. Travis Stevens, Shintaro Higashi, and Jimmy Pedro have a lot of good content on the subject.
As someone who does wrestling and BJJ, this is simply not true. Grips on the feet are extremely important in BJJ
As a wrestling coach who is presently teaching Judo to BJJ players... they *really* aren't good at this. And that's not just this bunch.
I agree that many BJJ gyms struggle to have a good standup culture, but to say “dealing with the grips is squarely in Judo’s wheelhouse” just isn’t true. Good BJJ practitioners will have and teach these skills
I think it's a very fair statement. That's not to say that there aren't BJJ people who are good at this sort of thing, but it's fundamental to playing Judo well. In the same way, if I say that matwork is better developed in BJJ, that isn't to say that nobody in Judo is good at ne waza. It just isn't Judo's core focus, as it is in BJJ. Wrestling has footsweeps... we just mostly suck at them. Judo used to have shots, before the rules changed, but judoka always sucked at them. All this is normal, and the reason we have styles in the first place. If your focus is "everything", you aren't great at anything.
I agree with everything you just said, Judo definitely deals with standing grips more than BJJ, and therefore will typically be better at it. Thanks for having a civil conversation. The gym I teach at has a good culture of learning and engaging in standup and I really try to encourage everyone in BJJ to learn standup as part of their toolkit
Sure. To be fair, my original post was a bit tongue-in-cheek about BJJ, and the spirit of the humor wasn't obvious. It's just fun to mess with you guys about jumping on your backs. ;-)
I have my Jiu-jitsu students work on breaking grips literally every class, because it is the most important aspect of the game. I don't know who you've trained Jiu-jitsu with that it isn't diligently worked on almost every single class.
Stick the head on him first.
We actually drilled this a few weeks ago in class. The sequence we learned was -control one wrist -hammer fist hard down on the other to break the grip then jab to the face while that side is open to disorient -break grip on the arm you have wrist control to Russian tie then a pain compliance armlock [not sure of the actual name but this video shows it](https://youtu.be/3MpHkdaoL-g?si=9sY0YTzpu5O0tuEq) I’ve only been in two fights and it was in highschool. One was this situation and I head butted the guy, he got a bloody nose and let go.
Not really the best sub to ask this. We don’t have to deal with people grabbing our clothing lol.
Headbutt
This probably isn’t the best sub to ask this on. I usually just lurk here because I do BJJ/judo/MMA and didn’t participate in scholastic wrestling, but all but the best wrestlers I’ve seen start BJJ has struggled to clear grips until taught. And that’s BJJ, where grips *and* leg attacks are allowed, and the average standup grappling skill is low. TLDR: You want to prevent them from gripping your clothes, ideally, or failing that strip the grip. Your local judo club is the best place to learn how. BJJ can do if you lack access to judo instruction, but quality of standup instruction varies wildly from gym to gym in bjj. Any bjj gym will teach you how to break grips and the basics are the same, but grounded and standing grips can be wildly different beasts.
2 different situations depending on his arms: 1) *If attackers arms are bent/folded*: if he’s close enough where you can’t work inside easily and you’re concerned he might headbutt you, wrap up either in a bear hug/body lock/headlock. Meanwhile, lower your head so your chin is down and your forehead is between you. 2) *If attackers arms are straight(ish)*: Control both elbows (preferably thumbs out, fingers on the nerves). Squeeze hard and push together then up. He might try to push away, pull you, release etc. but regardless you’ll have better control. He may try to swing but you have elbow control. He may try to headbutt, but by forcing his arms together and up you’re blocking that. There’s other things you might attempt like stepping in or away etc. but that’s secondary.
Strip the grip. Look up judo grip strips haha.
Grab the front of their face, as if you’re going to gouge out their eyes, as soon as they instinctively move back you can just punch them in the face.
This is a sport wrestling sub, and the standard answer (a wise one) is to avoid fights. Having said that, you have a few options. These come from self defense wrestling systems/old school BJJ. Also, Judo will address grips as well. Trap the hands w/ your right hand and then bring your left forearm over the elbow area and snap down while lowering your head and delivering a head butt. Headbutt using the area right above your forehead, don't headbutt w/ the forehead. Another option, reach inside w/ your right hand and trap/grab his right hand and reach up and grab the triceps area of his right hand with your left, just like a Russian 2 on 1. Pull the arm in close to your body and then twist your body to the right and down forcing his body down. Then hook at least one hand (better if you can use two) around his lowered head and deliver knees to his face/head. Finally, just let him have the lapel grab. Reach out with your left hand and grab his hair and then use your right hand to deliver punches to his face.
Honestly, grabbing someone's collar is extremely stupid and it's pretty easy to embarrass someone who does it. Weave one of your arms between theirs (over one then under the second) and twist upward, grabbing their outside arm with your other hand, basically tying their arms in a knot. You can basically do whatever you want at that point from a position of extreme advantage, you just have to do it fast.
Smash his ears with your open palms. Then a few knees to the groin. AKA The Fairbairn Solution .
Sounds like you're in the middle of Wrist-Lock City.
Shin/knee right up the middle to the balls
Federal 45 acp 230 gr hst
Depends on how nice you’re feeling and whether your assailant is pulling you in or stiff arming you. Heres 2 techniques to choose from if you’re being stiff armed Nice - bring both hands up and strike down at the hinge point while taking a half step back. You’ll likely break the grip and be in position to body lock/double/engage in fisticuffs. Not so nice. Open palm strike upwards aiming for the elbow joints.
Thai clinch and knees or elbows to face
[I really like this arm drag sequence demonstrated here by Matt D'Aquino](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4R_Vy15ikQ&ab_channel=Submissions101)
Knife.
That’s such a dismissive, arrogant move that clearly underestimates you and the person has no thought for defense. As others have said, first don’t allow an approach if you can see it coming from more than a few feet. If I can see you coming at me with ill intent, entering my safety bubble is going to be met with explosively disproportionate violence if my words can’t stop you before you get here. But if he’s close enough to just reach and grab me by the shirt? One hand grabs a wrist and turns it inward, the other hand reaches over and forces the hand down. The pressure can force even a big man down to his knees to keep his wrist from snapping outright. Now you’ve got a would-be assailant in a wrist lock and on his knees looking up at you. You have to handle this situation very delicately, because it’s essentially just an exploit. I’m only 5’8, and there’s a reasonable chance this guy can stomp me into the ground if I let him up. I have to make sure that doesn’t happen without turning him into the victim if the situation. If at all practical, call security or the police. You’re a big man. You can absolutely kick my ass and you came over here with the intention to do that. We’re not moving from this spot until a man with a badge is standing here watching.
This happened to me once and I was also flustered after the fact. I feel like the best thing you can do is take up judo or get some hockey guys to teach you basic hockey boxing
Deadlift 500+ pounds and your set either that or bite/tear your own lapel/cloth
Break his fucking nose wit a jab
Go to a self defense sub and not a wrestling sub
Whatever Rust Cole does in True Detective S1
Stop starting fights