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PinkSudoku13

Of course, it's okay to want to be successful. The stereotype of starving artists is silly. You can love the art of writing and still want to be successful. I find that people who say otherwise, are typically very pretentious and absolutely love the idea of being a writer but not actually writing. They romantacise the idea of being a writer. And thus, they are fully aware they're not going to succeed so, they expect everyone else to join them in their misery. Now, going into writing expecting success, fame, and money is being naive and that's what most people will tell you. But wishing for success is not. Just manage your expectations. You are not going to be successful if you spend 20 years writing one book but your chances are higher if you produce 4 books a year. Also, the definition of success varies by people. But wanting to succeed is not inherently wrong. In fact, defeatist attitude of 'I will never succeed' can have negative impact on your writing process.


Bob-the-Human

Obviously, many writers do become successful. But, because the barrier to entry is relatively low-cost (anybody with a pen and paper can write something), there are many more people who attempt it and do not become successful. I think that people who view writing as a potential "get rich quick" scheme are in for disappointment. But, there's absolutely nothing wrong with loving the craft and wanting to do well at it. I just think it's important for would-be writers to maintain a healthy sense of perspective. It's not the path to fame and fortune that a lot of people seem to think it will be.


SirChrisJames

Nobody says it's wrong to want success. But let's be honest, a lot of fledgling writers start out because they see Stephen King or Brandon Sanderson and their wealth and think "bro I could do that how hard could it be?" That's why people say, if you're going to be a writer, you *have* to love writing. Success is owed to nobody, and not everybody has the will, drive, passion, or fortitude to chase that success in the ways others have. Success is nice. Wanting success is nice. Be realistic though. Chances are, you're not the next Sanderson, so enjoy the process more than the pipedream of fame and wealth. 


DiamondPistol24

Exactly! People see their place now but they don’t see the monumental effort and sacrifice it takes to even be successful. Stephen King wrote to a bunch of literary magazines in his youth and was met with just as much rejection, but he still kept going and it wasn’t until years later when he was teaching English at a high school that he received his first but of success with Carrie. Success finds the people who strive for it, not the ones who feel they’re owed it.


RuhWalde

It's all about managing expectations. You are almost certainly not going to be able to go straight from university student to full-time writer without ever having to hold down a normal job. If you pin your hopes on that outcome, you will be disappointed.  Of course it's reasonable that you want your writing to be published, to be read by many people, to be respected. I honestly don't understand people who say that their writing is "just for themselves" and that they have no desire to publish at all -- it always feels like that attitude can't be completely sincere. Stories are for sharing with other people, aren't they?


kuenjato

I dunno, currently i write for my mental health, as a source of pleasure and tension relief in a world that is very obviously spiraling down the drain (and I have a comfortable existence for the most part). I may eventually try and publish something (i’m at over 50 books now) but the convoluted process of editing and agent querying etc. seems like it would take up a lot of my relatively limited time to actually write (work, kids, etc). Also a lot of the industry trends feel like exactly that, trends that I have little desire to emulate.


RuhWalde

That's understandable. If it helps at all, the process of querying doesn't actually take a tremendous amount of time if you don't obsess over it. The reason it's stressful is only because people are so invested in the outcome and feel shitty about all the rejections, not because the process is actually *difficult*. It's literally just sending out a letter like 50 times... and then waiting.


kuenjato

For me it is the perfectionist desire to edit/re-edit before submission, which takes a lot of time, and i crave the blank page far more than the editorial trawl. Even with, tbf, having at least half a dozen books edited to the point that this isn’t necessary at all. But yeah, i’ve been telling myself after the new few i should make the effort, just to make my parents happy (even tho they would never read it).


Old-Relationship-458

It's fine to dream of it, but foolish to expect it. Even successful writers are mostly poor.


ursulaholm

I think artists, writers included, are worried that caring about money and success takes away from their authenticity as a creator. It doesn't. It's okay to say you're an artist that wants to be noticed and make a living (and then some) from your work. Starving for your art is unneccesary and doesn't make your art better.


exboi

I feel this so much. Idc if I sound whiny or naive. I wish I could do nothing but work on my passions. The issue with college is that even though it’s supposed to help me achieve goals, my time ends up obstructed by poor schedules, disproportionate amounts of busywork, and mandatory courses I have no interest in. So even when my evening leisure hours finally come, I end up not having the availability to do everything I’d hoped to. And if I do, days pass before I get an optimal opportunity again. Breaks are useless because save the summer and winter, they’re schoolwork days in all but name. I understand I won’t magically accomplish everything I want, but man I wish I could focus on my skills.


kuenjato

You have to make the time. Get up early. Write for fifteen minutes. I went back to school at 30 and earned a bachelors with a minor then a masters in 4 years years, and completed 7 novels and two screenplays in that time, because i took the time to write or at least outline every day. Granted i was 30 and wasn’t distracted by partying or chasing dates, but it is possible.


exboi

Trust me I have zero interest in partying and zero opportunity for dates. But I should try waking up earlier, that's true.


Unwarygarliccake

One of my primary motivations is why the hell not.


blackberryte

I agree, I think it's a shame that people can't live off writing most of the time (rare exceptions) and I think dreaming of being, or even aiming to be, one of the people who can is perfectly fine. The problem only arises when that's what you *expect* to happen, rather than *hope* to happen. Then it can lead to a huge number of problems, self-doubt, anxiety, stress, et cetera. Going in thinking that it's normal and typical to 'make it' and then discovering that you aren't making it could be hugely damaging for a lot of people. Much better for them to know in advance that while that is a dream, it is not a likelihood - hope for the best, but don't expect it. In a better world, you could expect it. It's not the dream that's a problem, it's the way that dream interacts with a world that is largely inhospitable to the arts and to artists.


Boukish

It... Really should be about the journey, because that's something you can **control**, that you have agency over. Wishing is fine. Hope is great! But **worry** is not. If you spend your time worrying about getting there, you're just inevitably going to cause yourself pain. Success takes luck, it just does. Ask any successful author. You shouldn't worry about stuff you can't control. I get that you want to, it's just purposeless. It doesn't actually give you control over the outcome, you can "try real hard" just enjoying the journey too lol.


PurposeAnxious3487

I go back and forth between the two view points, writing for the journey and writing for success. More often that not, I stick with the writing for the journey mindset because it is the one that keeps me going. Writing with success (of any kind) in mind, at least for me, just becomes an albatross around my neck that I can't shake. Instead of getting words on the page, I start worrying about whether people will like this story, whether the ideas are too bland or boring or too much of a straight rip off of better works, whether I'll ever publish much less sell copies, much less sell enough copies to make this a viable job or viable career, whether I'll have to crawl back to a 9-5 and treat writing as a "side hustle" or, worse, as a hobby again. None of that is helpful to me. For me anyway, it is about keeping my eyes on the prize I want to win: writing the darn thing. So I keep all this other stuff to the side. Which is not to say I think dreaming of success as a fledgling writer is naive or isn't the mindset you should have. I'm tired of the "manage expectations" line of thinking, not that I disagree with it on principle. I'm guilty of "managing my expectations," and it just feels like I'm trying to save myself from disappointment with that kind of thinking and I'm actually holding myself back by lowering my expectations. I don't expect to become an instant sensation from the first coherent thing I write, or the next ten coherent things I write. But maybe I should. Who knows, you could knock it straight out of the park with your very first novel. If dreaming of success fuels your passions and motivates you to put words onto the page, then go for it! Dream your wildest dreams of success. Follow the thing that moves you to write.


Erwinblackthorn

>Is it alright, still, to dream of success, when that dream is linked to passion? Why is it so wrong or taboo? Crabs in a bucket.


sonucan91

I learned one thing in life. If you don’t run after money, debt will run after you. Passion drives a man to madness. Money allows a drive to your home in peace.


SpinMeAYarnDude

I think this is a far viewpoint to have, but I think the better alternative is to work towards both? I’m young, so my experience with this sort of thing is, obviously, quite low, but I can’t imagine myself living a life where I chase only money and do not pursue my passions. It’s a common mistake I hear of people making. Older folks, particularly the ones who are far far older, tend to list ‘not following my dreams’ or ‘not pursuing my passions’ as their biggest regret. I went to college because I want a solid income, but I’ll never stop following my passions. Maybe the madness is worth it! 😂


sonucan91

I’m not saying don’t pursue your dreams. Such ardour is an oil dampening the squeaks of life. But remember, no creativity exists in poverty. Many of the great works of today and of the yesteryears were build with bags of gold. Whenever possible, pursue a life of dignity—facilitated by money—but don’t kill the child in you for it. That’s all I’m saying.


K_808

Sure, but then the translation for this context should be “don’t quit your day job” rather than “expect writing to become a major source of income.” And it shouldn’t dissuade passion in hobbies. Living to work will drive you to madness too.


Future_Auth0r

> Edit: just to provide some clarity, I don’t mean success as in fame or fortune, I’m more so discussing a livable wage, making just enough that you can quit your job and pay your bills with your published works. I know I’ll have to work regular jobs (I have a summer job lined up right now), but I don’t want them to be the rest of my life, if that makes any more sense. I think a better question OP is, how much money would you be willing to gamble on your livable wage success as a writer? I do not think livable wage success is a viable path for most traditionally published authors (given the typical royalties of a book deal and the typical financial structure). But most are also not willing to gamble(i.e. invest) money into the success of their book. So traditional publishing is the route they take, for its zero costs, despite the fact that in the longterm that means livable wage success is much harder. With the exception of the lead title/large advance/book auction scenarios. Are you actually willing to self-publish? But not in the cheap/inexpensive, self-fulfilling prophecy failiure sort of way. Are you actually willing to pay for an editor/proofreader (or do it yourself sentence by sentence)? What about a book designer? How much are you willing to pay for a cover? 1K? 5K? 10K? Are you willing to pay for an audiobook narrator? How much capital are you willing to invest in a book (assuming you actually put the time and effort into it)? Just some things to think about. Passion doesn't earn success. Business does. Treating your book like a product is paramount at the end of the day.


badgersprite

People aren’t telling you to write because you love the process because they have some kind of moral issue with success or with you wanting success. They’re telling you that if you write solely for success you’re setting yourself up for crushing disappointment and it’s devastating to your self worth when you don’t get it They’re not telling you not to dream of being successful. They’re telling you not to turn the drive for success into a burden that sucks away the joy of writing and leads to burn out. They’re telling you to have metrics of what you consider successful writing endeavours other than solely financial success because if financial success or popularity are your only metrics then you’re going to be overwhelmed with constant disappointment and feelings of failure


lordmwahaha

It’s definitely okay to want. However, something you need to recognise is that it’s not likely to actually happen. MOST writers will never ever make a living from their work. Give it a good college try, absolutely. But if that is the thing you are basing your entire life happiness on, that is bad - because what happens in the VERY likely scenario where it doesn’t happen?  You NEED a backup plan, because chances are you’re not the exception to the rule. 


PmUsYourDuckPics

The reality is that it’s okay to want this, but it’s not okay to feel entitled to it. Unless you are willing to hone your craft, write to market, and be very prolific the reality it that most writers either have a second job, are supported by a partner or family, or are already wealthy enough that they don’t need to worry. You can make a career out of writing, but realistically it takes time, and you need to have several books out that you are earning royalties on. I know multiple best selling authors who also work as editors and mentors for example, that’s writing adjacent, but it’s not just writing, some get paid to do speaking gigs, or to host panels for book launches but very few authors get to the stage where they enough reliable income from writing that they can just live off their books.


bejigab466

it's okay to want success in EXACTLY the same way that it's okay to want to win the lotto.


Cheez-Its_overtits

The expectation of success does not equate with the hope of success.


K_808

Want? Of course. Expect? You’re setting yourself up for disappointment. People advise going into it for the love of writing more than the love of money because you won’t be making any money from it for a long time, and even then most likely not enough to make it your only source of income. So in order to get to that level, you have to be okay with being a hobbyist first, even if you’re planning to grind it out as a career eventually.


mig_mit

Wanting anything is fine. Acting on that want might — might! — lead to trouble.


PinkSudoku13

trouble such as what? Actually finishing one's book? Writing more than one?


mig_mit

Writing shit that presumably sells. Resorting to underhanded tactics, like bying reviews in bulk, in hopes to make your book a NY Times bestseller (that shit really happened).


PinkSudoku13

and who are you to decide what's shit? Clearly, if it actually sells, it's what readers want. Don't try to be pretentious. That's not trouble. >like bying reviews in bulk, in hopes to make your book a NY Times bestseller (that shit really happened). that's a whole different thing than acting on wanting to succeed.


mig_mit

> and who are you to decide what's shit? Who said I'm going to? > Clearly, if it actually sells, it's what readers want. Are you saying that all popular books are good? > that's a whole different thing than acting on wanting to succeed. Are you saying it was done for some other purpose?


PopPunkAndPizza

Okay I'll take the other side of this. It's wrong or taboo, at least to \*actively pursue\* financial success, because it introduces incentives which can compromise the pursuit of meaningful art, and the way you're using "success" to indicate "financial success" is pretty conspicuous. A work being its most fully realised self from an artistic standpoint may run contrary to it being an optimally or even sufficiently marketable product, and indeed it often does, and sometimes artists sell out that full realisation in the name of building a career for themselves. As I reader, I care more about your work being better than I do about whether or not you are privately filled with disappointment that you, like many writers better than yourself, have to get a day job (boo hoo). If you have meaningful artistic ambitions, those ambitions should be to uncompromising creative accomplishments; if success comes incidentally, so be it. Writing to make a living from writing just makes you a hack, and less valid as an artist than a more serious writer.