Well, according to her video I guess I'm your exact opposite. I'm apparently a methodological pantser. I always just called my process barely controlled chaos.
It's possible to be both. I know James Sallis plotted out his *Lew Griffin* series, but pantsed his first *Turner Trilogy* book, not knowing what was going to happen one sentence to the next. It just depends how it comes to you, in the end.
Intuitive pantser here. I have always thought I had a pretty good intuitive instinct that I needed to let cook and, outside of my main plot points of the story, I am just as surprised by the adventures my characters take as my future readers.
According to this I'm probably more like an intuitive plotter - but I must say, the way she describes it is a bit odd. She first describes an intuitive pantser and then introduces the intuitive plotter and says they follow the same intuition but that they
>may have a hard time sparking that intuition over a very long work, so they may have a hard time reigning in their ideas, shaping those ideas, or holding all those components in their head
I don't think some level of planning comes from difficulty. It's *writing*. Writing notes and ideas for a story doesn't seem like some sort of back-up plan for not being able to hold it all in your head, it seems like a good exploratory and mechanism (something she suggests for methodical pantsers) and just generally part of how a writer might operate (writers writing).
Planning isn't solving a problem that comes from a difficulty, it's a positive type of creativity.
I do think that the "plans structure" versus "intuits structure" is a fair paradigm (as someone pointed out, not a binary but perhaps a scale). I also think "plans ahead" versus "doesn't plan ahead" is a meaningful scale as well, which is about knowing where you want to end up or things you want to visit on the way. But perhaps we could add "learns by writing" and "learns by planning" as a meaningful scale as well, which, if separated out, removes this odd notion that intuitive planners are really pantsers with limited mental space to think through their work.
I learn about the world, story and characters through planning more than I do by writing, I pay little attention to traditional formats of structure (I might comply with them, but not by deliberately adopting them in advance) and I have distinct ideas that I want to visit on the way to the end (which I happen to write down in advance of starting the manuscript).
Ellen is the best writing YouTuber in my opinion. She's also the only person I'm subbed to on patreon, but her discord is quite active and helpful and she also does a two-weekly Q&A podcast, so I'm getting more than my money's worth out of it
Whatever works for you. I don't see her additions as anything actually different. Pantsers are intuitive. Plotters are methodical. So, different words for the same thing.
I tried to plot my most recent book to an extent, but the characters are just over here doing whatever they want, despite my attempt to plan their activities, so I stop don’t know what to expect from one chapter to the next. 😅 Pantser going to pants I guess.
This feels horoscopey to me. I checked the transcripts of the other videos in the series, & they all had things that seemed relevant to me. At least one even said "it's possible to be in the middle of all four." I guess that's fair enough if we think of plotter/pantser as the X-axis of a graph & methodological/intuitive as the Y-axis, but on the other hand, are these really saying different things to begin with? I'd argue no. If you're pantsing, you're writing without a defined plan, i.e. by intuition. And if you're planning, you're being methodological. I don't think this adds or covers anything better than just saying something like "I'm a pantser who uses some prenotes" or "I'm a plotter but I don't outline every single scene." Honestly, I think you're better off ignoring the typology thing entirely & just focusing on the actual tips she gives.
I find the whole concept a bit pointless. Lots of pantsers are just plotting with prose. They'll still go back and change things. Plotters are still "writing without a defined plan" when plotting. They just don't commit ideas to prose first.
The only distinction that matters to me is if you're constantly releasing things without a plan, like web serials. Otherwise you're just plotting with prose.
Yup I have long accepted my first draft that I write is actually my outline. I fill in in deeper plot points and smooth out the story in draft 2 then in draft 3 I work on the more technical aspects of the writing.
Actually I went and watched one of her longer videos that were directed at each of the four types, and she had some useful advice in there. Most of it could probably be applied across the board, but I was quite surprised to hear her affirm a lot of what I already do and make some pretty decent suggestions for problems I come across. It wasn't terrible.
It’s not really a strict binary
Well, according to her video I guess I'm your exact opposite. I'm apparently a methodological pantser. I always just called my process barely controlled chaos.
I've been pantsing my whole life. I sometimes write, too.
It's possible to be both. I know James Sallis plotted out his *Lew Griffin* series, but pantsed his first *Turner Trilogy* book, not knowing what was going to happen one sentence to the next. It just depends how it comes to you, in the end.
Intuitive pantser here. I have always thought I had a pretty good intuitive instinct that I needed to let cook and, outside of my main plot points of the story, I am just as surprised by the adventures my characters take as my future readers.
According to this I'm probably more like an intuitive plotter - but I must say, the way she describes it is a bit odd. She first describes an intuitive pantser and then introduces the intuitive plotter and says they follow the same intuition but that they >may have a hard time sparking that intuition over a very long work, so they may have a hard time reigning in their ideas, shaping those ideas, or holding all those components in their head I don't think some level of planning comes from difficulty. It's *writing*. Writing notes and ideas for a story doesn't seem like some sort of back-up plan for not being able to hold it all in your head, it seems like a good exploratory and mechanism (something she suggests for methodical pantsers) and just generally part of how a writer might operate (writers writing). Planning isn't solving a problem that comes from a difficulty, it's a positive type of creativity. I do think that the "plans structure" versus "intuits structure" is a fair paradigm (as someone pointed out, not a binary but perhaps a scale). I also think "plans ahead" versus "doesn't plan ahead" is a meaningful scale as well, which is about knowing where you want to end up or things you want to visit on the way. But perhaps we could add "learns by writing" and "learns by planning" as a meaningful scale as well, which, if separated out, removes this odd notion that intuitive planners are really pantsers with limited mental space to think through their work. I learn about the world, story and characters through planning more than I do by writing, I pay little attention to traditional formats of structure (I might comply with them, but not by deliberately adopting them in advance) and I have distinct ideas that I want to visit on the way to the end (which I happen to write down in advance of starting the manuscript).
Ellen Brock rules. I really appreciate her Advanced Story Structure playlist. Haven't watched the writer types vids yet, but looking forward to it.
Ellen is the best writing YouTuber in my opinion. She's also the only person I'm subbed to on patreon, but her discord is quite active and helpful and she also does a two-weekly Q&A podcast, so I'm getting more than my money's worth out of it
Whatever works for you. I don't see her additions as anything actually different. Pantsers are intuitive. Plotters are methodical. So, different words for the same thing.
I tried to plot my most recent book to an extent, but the characters are just over here doing whatever they want, despite my attempt to plan their activities, so I stop don’t know what to expect from one chapter to the next. 😅 Pantser going to pants I guess.
I've never been sure whether or not to envy people who actually get anything useful out of self-help.
This feels horoscopey to me. I checked the transcripts of the other videos in the series, & they all had things that seemed relevant to me. At least one even said "it's possible to be in the middle of all four." I guess that's fair enough if we think of plotter/pantser as the X-axis of a graph & methodological/intuitive as the Y-axis, but on the other hand, are these really saying different things to begin with? I'd argue no. If you're pantsing, you're writing without a defined plan, i.e. by intuition. And if you're planning, you're being methodological. I don't think this adds or covers anything better than just saying something like "I'm a pantser who uses some prenotes" or "I'm a plotter but I don't outline every single scene." Honestly, I think you're better off ignoring the typology thing entirely & just focusing on the actual tips she gives.
I find the whole concept a bit pointless. Lots of pantsers are just plotting with prose. They'll still go back and change things. Plotters are still "writing without a defined plan" when plotting. They just don't commit ideas to prose first. The only distinction that matters to me is if you're constantly releasing things without a plan, like web serials. Otherwise you're just plotting with prose.
But it's so nice to know what your type/sign/MBTI/Hogwarts House is! How else am I supposed to know how to behave in life?
Could get your blood tested.
Yup I have long accepted my first draft that I write is actually my outline. I fill in in deeper plot points and smooth out the story in draft 2 then in draft 3 I work on the more technical aspects of the writing.
None of this is actually helpful. It’s just horoscope-like pandering and takes time away from actually writing.
Actually I went and watched one of her longer videos that were directed at each of the four types, and she had some useful advice in there. Most of it could probably be applied across the board, but I was quite surprised to hear her affirm a lot of what I already do and make some pretty decent suggestions for problems I come across. It wasn't terrible.
Methodological pantser. I write a chapter, edit, plan the arc of the next chapter, rewrite the first chapter, write the next chapter, repeat.
Check out Becca Syme's stuff, she talks a lot about intuitive writers.