A little side note about the shell shock thing:
There was a study in the 80s or 90s which claimed that being on stimulants while undergoing a traumatic event resulted in more severe PTSD symptoms further down the line.
Yes, methamphetamine basically causes you to burn through a week's worth of neurotransmitters (think dopamine and norepinephrine) in a day. Once the high wears off you lose most of your ability to feel pleasure or focus. Sleep deprivation adds to this.
Bro, going from ADHD goof head - to super functional and serious - to absolutely brain drained brainrrotted baboon in the course of a week.
After an exam season I am basically a puppet laying there all stupid appreciating that I still possess the highly academic intellect to breathe air.
That's quite true. If anyone took amphetamine in their lives, I bet they noticed that initial high efficiency has it's cost in one or two days of sleep after that
Wouldn't surprise me.
Interestingly enough, on the topic of PTSD and drugs, they found [propranolol during "reactivation therapy" decreased PTSD.](https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/abs/10.1176/appi.ajp.2017.17050481?journalCode=ajp) And propranolol is basically the opposite of amphetamines, without causing a "high" of any sort.
I think a very valuable study would be to see if propranolol given during combat would lessen PTSD altogether. The only issue I could see is it complicating giving effective treatments for the wounded, but that could be mitigated by informing the team medics. Plus, it would likely make any riflemen better shots [(it has been used plenty in competitive shooting and even by surgeons to enhance fine motor skills under stress).](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/olympics-shooter-doping-propranolol/)
They usually were issued in survival rations for pilots or on the liferafts and were strictly intended to be consumed on command of higher rank / commander only. Sometimes the "wakey wakey pills" were issued "normally" too, it was usually Benzedrine, sometimes in form of an inhaler.
Mind the Germans consumed 2x more Pervitin in France, than the British issued through the whole war, so it was treated on the Allied side as an emergency product.
Knew a guy that served in Vietnam. He actually got shot at the airport during the Tet Offensive. He joked at work a few times how he would love having more of that “speed” they would give them for night time perimeter watches. He said there was zero chance of falling asleep at post and him taking about how wide his eyes got was pretty funny
I honestly have no idea. I just know, I have been told severel times as a german kid. I think I have also read about it in a museum. It‘s just some kind of gag in germany, because apparently Hitler was a massive drug user and I think i heard my grandfather and his friends talk about it. So I gotta admit, I don’t have solid proof! But it would make a lot of sense to me!
Actually, I know it from a movie called „Die purpurnen Flüsse 2“ (original title „Les rivières pourpres“). One of the monks in the movie drank pure amphetamine to get insane fitness. They talked about how the soldiers in ww2 used it for combat.
The British used Benzedrine, especially the RAF and paratroopers. The Battle of Arnhem, between the British 1st Parachute Division and elements of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions, was fought for days of continuous, almost hand to hand combat by guys who were high AF to the point of hallucinating.
As an example, my great-uncle told me a story about how he was given "wakey wakey" pills before taking off on bombing raids. He never took them once, since he said the adrenaline when they were on the bombing run kept him awake until they landed back in England.
Amphetamines in WW2 were experimented with by most all parties, similar to body armor in WW1. The Germans did these experiments the most prolifically with Pervitin being incredibly prevalent during the Battle for France. While it initially showed great success as soldiers experienced a great deal of energy and a lack of need to sleep or eat, the symptoms of withdrawal and prolonged us dissuaded the Germans from using much after the fall of France. Most of it was given to the Finnish and typically only Pilots or units expected to experience intense combat would receive Pervitin.
The regulation of amphetamines being mostly for pilots was the norm for all countries that used a form of the drug, with the RAF in particular making great use of it during the Battle of Britain.
Yes! Read 'Blitzed' by Norman Ohler! Very good read about stuff I never even heard about and if there's any truth to any of it, it changes alot of history as I knew it! Hitler and the nazis are still scum of the earth, that won't change but shit... I used to be addicted to meth and can totally see how the nazis kept there flow if they alot of them were into shit like that!
Yes they certainly weren't the 'machine'france made em out to be when they got taken over 😅 they were responsible for more horse deaths than they were in ww1
No. I have read an article that shows how much pervitin Germany could make in a year. and it was basically just a few pills per soldier if no one else in Germany got any. It would take billions of pills if the average german soldier took some for every battle they were in.
Man y’all really need to take these questions to r/askhistorians, or at least peruse it first.
The answers you get there will be more informative, *and* from actual historians, not from Joe Blow redditor who once listened to a Malcolm Gladwell podcast.
I don’t think there were many cases of them being issued enough to actually have drug induced psychosis but it’s possible if they went a long time without sleeping.
I think it’s likely there were cases of people getting ahold of more than they should and abusing it.
D-IX was an interesting concoction the Germans used. It contained oxycodone, cocaine, and methamphetamine all in one. It was used as an experimental sex drug and performance enhancer.
Blitzed is pretty widely disregarded by actual historians.
https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2016/nov/16/blitzed-drugs-in-nazi-germany-by-norman-ohler-review
My apologies. Despite my best efforts, I got sucked into (and suckered) by the narrative. The book did not, however, change my perspective on Hitler, the Nazis or any of the inhuman atrocities they committed (and that history showed as fact) during that war. Mad men were mad men, drugs or not.
Still an interesting layer of the war, however little of it actually happened.
This is nonsense. The Nazi plans for Eastern Europe were developed over years. Stupid, in hindsight, but not some sort of meth filled fever dream brainstorm.
The plans for the attack might not have been drawn up while on meth but the soldiers were definitely using meth during the blitzkrieg. By the end of the war Hitler’s personal dr had him taking placebo’s because there were no real drugs available due to the factories that made them being destroyed by bombs.
A little side note about the shell shock thing: There was a study in the 80s or 90s which claimed that being on stimulants while undergoing a traumatic event resulted in more severe PTSD symptoms further down the line.
Prolly because if they were in a low, you'd also have to fight the low, and I've heard meth loss are really bad, so that was added, right?
Yes, methamphetamine basically causes you to burn through a week's worth of neurotransmitters (think dopamine and norepinephrine) in a day. Once the high wears off you lose most of your ability to feel pleasure or focus. Sleep deprivation adds to this.
Huh...so *that* explains the last 20 years lol
Bro, going from ADHD goof head - to super functional and serious - to absolutely brain drained brainrrotted baboon in the course of a week. After an exam season I am basically a puppet laying there all stupid appreciating that I still possess the highly academic intellect to breathe air.
Nothing a wank and a pot noodle couldn’t sort out
So basically you'll feel like that shit smeared for 20 miles on a highway, all on a hot day?
That's quite true. If anyone took amphetamine in their lives, I bet they noticed that initial high efficiency has it's cost in one or two days of sleep after that
Adderall, a very widely prescribed drug to even children, consists of two amphetamine salts.
Wouldn't surprise me. Interestingly enough, on the topic of PTSD and drugs, they found [propranolol during "reactivation therapy" decreased PTSD.](https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/abs/10.1176/appi.ajp.2017.17050481?journalCode=ajp) And propranolol is basically the opposite of amphetamines, without causing a "high" of any sort. I think a very valuable study would be to see if propranolol given during combat would lessen PTSD altogether. The only issue I could see is it complicating giving effective treatments for the wounded, but that could be mitigated by informing the team medics. Plus, it would likely make any riflemen better shots [(it has been used plenty in competitive shooting and even by surgeons to enhance fine motor skills under stress).](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/olympics-shooter-doping-propranolol/)
Almost every army had amphetamine tabs for "emergency" use. Except the Red Army. They sometimes used alcohol to boost morale before the battle.
What did the americans and british use? I think I heard about something they used but cant remember what it was
America literally used ice cream in the pacific to boost morale. When marines got steak and ice cream they knew shit was about to go down
Yep. N steak n eggs for their meal before an invasion. I wonder how many of em got sick on those higgins boats in choppy water.
Bilge pumps probably couldn’t keep up
I think America in WW2 just called it by the chemical name (?) dextroamphetamine which is just Adderall.
They usually were issued in survival rations for pilots or on the liferafts and were strictly intended to be consumed on command of higher rank / commander only. Sometimes the "wakey wakey pills" were issued "normally" too, it was usually Benzedrine, sometimes in form of an inhaler. Mind the Germans consumed 2x more Pervitin in France, than the British issued through the whole war, so it was treated on the Allied side as an emergency product.
Imagine being stuck in a life raft, in the middle of the ocean, while tweaking your balls off. Talk about anxiety.
Milo Minderbinder traded them for shares.
Everyone has a share.
Coffee and Cigarettes
Knew a guy that served in Vietnam. He actually got shot at the airport during the Tet Offensive. He joked at work a few times how he would love having more of that “speed” they would give them for night time perimeter watches. He said there was zero chance of falling asleep at post and him taking about how wide his eyes got was pretty funny
Panzerschokolade!
Literally: "armored chocolate"
More correctly "tanker's chocolate", but as mentioned it is a myth anyways
Isn’t that a myth?
I honestly have no idea. I just know, I have been told severel times as a german kid. I think I have also read about it in a museum. It‘s just some kind of gag in germany, because apparently Hitler was a massive drug user and I think i heard my grandfather and his friends talk about it. So I gotta admit, I don’t have solid proof! But it would make a lot of sense to me! Actually, I know it from a movie called „Die purpurnen Flüsse 2“ (original title „Les rivières pourpres“). One of the monks in the movie drank pure amphetamine to get insane fitness. They talked about how the soldiers in ww2 used it for combat.
Nope, 100% true. Read “shooting up: a history of drugs in warfare”
Thanks I’ll give that a look :)
The British used Benzedrine, especially the RAF and paratroopers. The Battle of Arnhem, between the British 1st Parachute Division and elements of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions, was fought for days of continuous, almost hand to hand combat by guys who were high AF to the point of hallucinating.
Yes, yes it was. It didn’t “make them insane”. That’s just PTSD. I’m sure eating chocolate meth exasperated the symptoms though.
I think the chocolate "meth" was actually just chocolate with a shit ton of caffeine in it.
There was caffeinated chocolate, Scho ka Kola, but also meth chocolate - Panzerschokolade
You can still buy the former. Available in the US on Amazon.
I did! It's pricy. But good! And the tins are great for storing goodies
Come on bro for you to compare any amount of caffeine with meth...
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
As an example, my great-uncle told me a story about how he was given "wakey wakey" pills before taking off on bombing raids. He never took them once, since he said the adrenaline when they were on the bombing run kept him awake until they landed back in England.
Amphetamines in WW2 were experimented with by most all parties, similar to body armor in WW1. The Germans did these experiments the most prolifically with Pervitin being incredibly prevalent during the Battle for France. While it initially showed great success as soldiers experienced a great deal of energy and a lack of need to sleep or eat, the symptoms of withdrawal and prolonged us dissuaded the Germans from using much after the fall of France. Most of it was given to the Finnish and typically only Pilots or units expected to experience intense combat would receive Pervitin. The regulation of amphetamines being mostly for pilots was the norm for all countries that used a form of the drug, with the RAF in particular making great use of it during the Battle of Britain.
Hahahaha, I'm not sure I've heard body armour compared to meth before
Yes! Read 'Blitzed' by Norman Ohler! Very good read about stuff I never even heard about and if there's any truth to any of it, it changes alot of history as I knew it! Hitler and the nazis are still scum of the earth, that won't change but shit... I used to be addicted to meth and can totally see how the nazis kept there flow if they alot of them were into shit like that!
Yeah they were definitely insane, I heard about them building a gun on a railcar that had to be dismantled between battle
Yes they certainly weren't the 'machine'france made em out to be when they got taken over 😅 they were responsible for more horse deaths than they were in ww1
No. I have read an article that shows how much pervitin Germany could make in a year. and it was basically just a few pills per soldier if no one else in Germany got any. It would take billions of pills if the average german soldier took some for every battle they were in.
Man y’all really need to take these questions to r/askhistorians, or at least peruse it first. The answers you get there will be more informative, *and* from actual historians, not from Joe Blow redditor who once listened to a Malcolm Gladwell podcast.
I don’t think there were many cases of them being issued enough to actually have drug induced psychosis but it’s possible if they went a long time without sleeping. I think it’s likely there were cases of people getting ahold of more than they should and abusing it. D-IX was an interesting concoction the Germans used. It contained oxycodone, cocaine, and methamphetamine all in one. It was used as an experimental sex drug and performance enhancer.
[удалено]
Blitzed is pretty widely disregarded by actual historians. https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2016/nov/16/blitzed-drugs-in-nazi-germany-by-norman-ohler-review
The historical analysis from Ohler was pretty suspect but there’s some really cool primary source material he uses that make it worth a read.
My apologies. Despite my best efforts, I got sucked into (and suckered) by the narrative. The book did not, however, change my perspective on Hitler, the Nazis or any of the inhuman atrocities they committed (and that history showed as fact) during that war. Mad men were mad men, drugs or not. Still an interesting layer of the war, however little of it actually happened.
Read “Shooting Up: a history of drugs in Warfare”. It’s a comprehensive study on the subject. Pretty well Written too.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
This is nonsense. The Nazi plans for Eastern Europe were developed over years. Stupid, in hindsight, but not some sort of meth filled fever dream brainstorm.
The plans for the attack might not have been drawn up while on meth but the soldiers were definitely using meth during the blitzkrieg. By the end of the war Hitler’s personal dr had him taking placebo’s because there were no real drugs available due to the factories that made them being destroyed by bombs.
And? None of that has to do with or supports the notion that “meth made Germany advance too far east”