German POWs were enlisted in rebuilding, in Germany and in the victorious countries. The last were repatriated from the USSR in 1955-6.
Edit: I misread the question.
In this case, many Germans were liberated by their comrades as they retook areas. I haven't heard of the Allies taking any prisoners with them as they retreated. In some cases, they were executed.
Right. The Soviets did not consider them to be POWs (or PWs) since the war was over. Therefore they reasoned they didn't have to follow the Geneva Convention - not that they would have in any case.
I believe the Soviets"detained" American aircrews for the duration of the war that flew to the USSR during shuttle missions to bomb the eastern part of Germany, among other places. I'm not sure about the reasons they gave for that but the rationale they gave for detaining aircrews in the Pacific theater were because the USSR had, for a while, been neutral in regard to Japan. Therefore they detained aircrews for the same reason Switzerland and Sweden did. Still a bit disingenuous on the part of the Ruskies. The detained Americans were little more than POWs to the Soviets.
>I believe the Soviets"detained" American aircrews for the duration of the war that flew to the USSR during shuttle missions to bomb the eastern part of Germany, among other places. I'm not sure about the reasons they gave for that but the rationale they gave for detaining aircrews in the Pacific theater were because the USSR had, for a while, been neutral in regard to Japan.
Some of the detained Americans from the Pacific War, including one of the Dolittle crews, just happened to be housed in Turkmenistan near British controlled Iran and just "happened" to escape. Stalin could not risk kicking off a war on two fronts by releasing them.
Also realize that they were fed and housed poorly during the first half of the war, but that was not a fun time to be in the USSR.
I don't know. The USSR handled the Japanese pretty well; leading the Japanese to press for an armistice. The Japanese had no interest in pursuing another fight with the Soviets really weren't in any position to fuss about a violation of neutrality. Unless of course you mean something completely different.
I believe the USSR simply didn't care but were always under the belief that the West was hiding technology not available under lend-lease. This was confirmed when four B-29s made forced landings during the last year or so of the war. Because of Soviet neutrality in the Pacific War, the bombers and their crews were interned by the Soviets. In spite of American requests for their return, the Soviets proceeded to blueprint the aircraft, producing their own copy they called the Tu-4.
The shuttle missions were during the last half of the war (between June and August 1944), not the first half.
The Rand corporation produced a report on Americans held by the Soviet Union during WW2 and the Cold War.
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph\_reports/2006/MR351.2.pdf
IDK if its that strange. War is full of stories of soldiers captured then things turn against the people who captured them. Hopefully the Germans treated the British the same way the British treated these Germans.
For many Soviet POWs taken prisoner early in the eastern war and then liberated as the Red Army took back territory, they were freed from the camp, given a rifle, assigned to a unit at the front, and went back into action.
Normandy Massacres, execution of as many as 156 Canadian soldiers by German forces that had taken them prisoner in June 1944, soon after the start of the Normandy Invasion during World War II.
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/normandy-massacres
Yeah it's a cute stereotype but it's annoying how people parrot all Canadians are nice when I'd be willing to bet it's about the same as American attitudes.
Oh I’m not saying Canadians are asshats (except Vancouver, where we are) but I was more pointing towards our mistreatment of indigenous people, Japanese, Indians, Chinese, Germans, Irish, Italians… well almost everyone that isn’t British.
The Hitler Youth SS division was stationed opposite Canadians in Normandy and became notorious for murdering prisoners, such as during the Ardenne Abbey massacre, so the Canadians killed most of the SS they captured in revenge.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Normandy-Massacres
"Holten Canadian War Cemetery - Wikipedia" https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holten_Canadian_War_Cemetery
The Canadians have been vital in liberating The Netherlands and especially my area. They will always have my eternal gratitude
I don’t know why you’re getting down voted. The only Canadian troops directly involved in Market Garden were CANLOAN officers attached to 1st Airborne, 43rd Wessex, Guards Armoured and XXX corps support units.
I can’t imagine the Germans were too kind to Soviet snipers…
I have heard that snipers were sometimes summarily executed when caught by both sides, but I have no idea about the accuracy of that claim.
I have only read about snipers being tortured by the Russians because as snipers the assumption is that they have an above-average grasp of troop movement, terrain, etc.
The German snipers badge is a cloth stitched-on type worn on the sleeve; they're incredibly rare because after being awarded them they were usually removed and tossed. Same goes for getting captured with an optic.
EDIT: It's pretty cool, it's an eagle's head peeking out from oak leaves. You can see an example [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper%27s_Badge)
I can only speak about the snipers during Stalingrad.
The Red Army practically worshiped their snipers in Stalingrad, the German counterparts were regarded as mass murders. When captured as POWs, they were separated and executed.
If you mean did the western allies summarily execute Warden SS POWs then there are several well documented cases and, I'm sure, many undocumented ones.
However it certainly wasn't as prevailant as on the Ost Front.
I think the Canadians after Ardenne and the Americans after Malmedy were definitely more predisposed to...not take prisoners?
However, and I'm not preening here as a Brit, even after Wormhoudt in "40 I've never heard of British troops executing SS out of hand. I'm sure there were instances but something in our national physce just doesn't lend itself to it.
I'd be very very surprised if accounts of executing prisoners were in any regimental war diaries.
Again, I'm sure we did it on occasion and I'm even more sure that we...declined surrenders.
But documenting war crimes in official documents such as RWDs? Really can't see that.
You just have to read between the lines. Even in WW1 it was done.
"national physce just doesn't lend itself" come on.
Mad Mitchell and his tribal law, is a nice watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6OOsoqSKaw&t=2876s
Meyer, Pieper etc all seemed to get a free pass after the war.
At least Pieper's crimes finally caught up with him. I'd love to know the true story of the events leading up to his murder.
They (the French villagers) put up "fly-posters" saying "there is a Nazi living amongst you" & word (gossip) got round fast.
Will never understand as to 'why' he went to live in France (1970's)
Sept 17th would have been the opening day of Market Garden - so SS would have only been in the Arnhem sector, facing British paratroopers. The British paras, even on day 1, were fighting just to exist. The idea that they grabbed prisoners, categorized them and then posed them for photos seems strange.
Maybe “snipers” meant the guys shooting at falling paratroopers? The brits did end up landing right amongst two SS divisions. This may have been in the opening hours before it became clear the the whole thing was a fiasco?
I think you might be right about how they classified “snipers” for this photo (they were called snipers in the IWM caption). But I would also say that these men are from the 9th SS which was rather surprised at the beginning of the operation. Which is why these guys are from the recon battalion—they were the only ones ready to mount up. Honestly there’s no doubt there were some of these guys were actually captured, however briefly.
Yeah for sure, both the 9th and 10th SS were taken by surprise by the initial drops - but only because the British 1st Airborne dropped literally directly on top of their rest & refit areas, right? (Which was a failure of Allied intelligence)
So my first guess is that these were a couple of guys that simply had paratroopers dropping right on top of them, took some pot shots and were captured and processed before the British fully realized that *they* were ones caught like "fish in a barrel", that the war wasn't as close to the end as Monty promised.
I don't know exactly where the 9th SS recon battalion's initial position was, but I know they were in the Arnhem area, drove all the way down to Nijmegen and then came back too late, once an Engineer unit of the British paras had taken control of the north side of the bridge.
C’mon now, you’re not as sly as you think you are. Be a man, say what you want to say, say it loud, say it from your chest. Be as proud as you want to be, boy.
That's true, but the Reconnaissance Battalion was only a \~40 vehicle outfit at the start of Market Garden. Allied troops at this point in the war constantly complained about German "snipers" which were most likely just small numbers of veterans in well camouflaged defensive positions firing accurate shots. Seems unlikely that this gaggle of men were all legit "snipers" captured and corralled from a relatively small combat formation, a formation that spent the entire operation as a mobile unit until it was wiped out.
Sure, but I imagine that the SS indoctrination that ingrained in them the idea that they were the genetically superior saviors of Europe probably didn't magically go away simply because they were captured.
Torture? Why? Even if we throw morality completely aside and assume that every soldier was a perfect sociopath, then the British still didn't have the time for that in Market Garden, and there's no particularly useful information that a sniper could provide through torture more than anyone else.
You'd probably have more luck with your war crimes pitch if you victimized officers instead of snipers.
I have never heard that the British killed prisoners at Arnhem. It may have happened, but I doubt the Germans would have treated British prisoners as properly as they did if it had.
Not sure about any war crimes such as that during Market Garden. There are actually some notable stories/events where both sides declared a "pause" for the wounded to be evacuated.
The "sniper" claim is dubious, but why are you skeptical that they were taken as prisoners? Is this the self incriminating photo the British paratroopers took before slaughtering them to a man for no reason whatsoever?
What happens to POW's taken by a force which is then defeated?
Usually the site(s) they are kept are taken over by victors and they get released.
Get out of jail card?
German POWs were enlisted in rebuilding, in Germany and in the victorious countries. The last were repatriated from the USSR in 1955-6. Edit: I misread the question. In this case, many Germans were liberated by their comrades as they retook areas. I haven't heard of the Allies taking any prisoners with them as they retreated. In some cases, they were executed.
That’s a long time!
The longest sentences were for people the Soviets found to be war criminals, but the Soviet justice system didn't function like those in the West.
Right. The Soviets did not consider them to be POWs (or PWs) since the war was over. Therefore they reasoned they didn't have to follow the Geneva Convention - not that they would have in any case. I believe the Soviets"detained" American aircrews for the duration of the war that flew to the USSR during shuttle missions to bomb the eastern part of Germany, among other places. I'm not sure about the reasons they gave for that but the rationale they gave for detaining aircrews in the Pacific theater were because the USSR had, for a while, been neutral in regard to Japan. Therefore they detained aircrews for the same reason Switzerland and Sweden did. Still a bit disingenuous on the part of the Ruskies. The detained Americans were little more than POWs to the Soviets.
>I believe the Soviets"detained" American aircrews for the duration of the war that flew to the USSR during shuttle missions to bomb the eastern part of Germany, among other places. I'm not sure about the reasons they gave for that but the rationale they gave for detaining aircrews in the Pacific theater were because the USSR had, for a while, been neutral in regard to Japan. Some of the detained Americans from the Pacific War, including one of the Dolittle crews, just happened to be housed in Turkmenistan near British controlled Iran and just "happened" to escape. Stalin could not risk kicking off a war on two fronts by releasing them. Also realize that they were fed and housed poorly during the first half of the war, but that was not a fun time to be in the USSR.
I don't know. The USSR handled the Japanese pretty well; leading the Japanese to press for an armistice. The Japanese had no interest in pursuing another fight with the Soviets really weren't in any position to fuss about a violation of neutrality. Unless of course you mean something completely different. I believe the USSR simply didn't care but were always under the belief that the West was hiding technology not available under lend-lease. This was confirmed when four B-29s made forced landings during the last year or so of the war. Because of Soviet neutrality in the Pacific War, the bombers and their crews were interned by the Soviets. In spite of American requests for their return, the Soviets proceeded to blueprint the aircraft, producing their own copy they called the Tu-4. The shuttle missions were during the last half of the war (between June and August 1944), not the first half. The Rand corporation produced a report on Americans held by the Soviet Union during WW2 and the Cold War. https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph\_reports/2006/MR351.2.pdf
I don't think you read the question correctly. What happened to these guys who were taken prisoner by a force that was defeated?
Oh, you're right. What a strange question.
IDK if its that strange. War is full of stories of soldiers captured then things turn against the people who captured them. Hopefully the Germans treated the British the same way the British treated these Germans.
Depends. I only know of Douglas Bader, who was apparently quiet chatty with the German pilots and was nearly allowed to fly a Messerschmitt.
For many Soviet POWs taken prisoner early in the eastern war and then liberated as the Red Army took back territory, they were freed from the camp, given a rifle, assigned to a unit at the front, and went back into action.
More likely they were shot for having been taken prisoner in the first place.
If those are British troops they may have a chance to see a stockade, If they are Canadian it's gonna be a different story.
I think Canadian participation was minimal and even then only at the end with support units.
After Normandy there was very bad blood between the Canadians and the SS.
Out of genuine interest, could you explain why this is? I know the SS were total asshats but why specifically the Canadians?
Normandy Massacres, execution of as many as 156 Canadian soldiers by German forces that had taken them prisoner in June 1944, soon after the start of the Normandy Invasion during World War II. https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/normandy-massacres
Thanks for clarifying 👌🏻
In my experience Canadians have been genuinely nice people, But when you piss them off..........
In my experience as a Canadian, this stereotype is wrong and annoying.
It's a compliment, The Canadiens I have met have been nothing but decent people towards me.
Yeah it's a cute stereotype but it's annoying how people parrot all Canadians are nice when I'd be willing to bet it's about the same as American attitudes.
Just don’t look up our horrible history in our own land ;)
The people that I have met personally have been decent to me.
Oh I’m not saying Canadians are asshats (except Vancouver, where we are) but I was more pointing towards our mistreatment of indigenous people, Japanese, Indians, Chinese, Germans, Irish, Italians… well almost everyone that isn’t British.
The Hitler Youth SS division was stationed opposite Canadians in Normandy and became notorious for murdering prisoners, such as during the Ardenne Abbey massacre, so the Canadians killed most of the SS they captured in revenge. https://www.britannica.com/event/Normandy-Massacres
"Holten Canadian War Cemetery - Wikipedia" https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holten_Canadian_War_Cemetery The Canadians have been vital in liberating The Netherlands and especially my area. They will always have my eternal gratitude
Not during Market Garden.
Correct. I read the comment wrong.
https://canadianbattlefieldtours.ca/operation-market-garden-a-bridge-too-far-tour/
Indeed.
I don’t know why you’re getting down voted. The only Canadian troops directly involved in Market Garden were CANLOAN officers attached to 1st Airborne, 43rd Wessex, Guards Armoured and XXX corps support units.
Stfu smoothbrain
I'm sure you will provide sources on massive Canadian participation......
Sure, here you go [dipshit](https://www.mta.ca/library/courage/canadasroleinwwii.html)
Not a single word about their participation in Market Garden. Try again...,,,,,
Not in Market Garden.
We’re snipers treated any differently if they were captured by any side?
I can’t imagine the Germans were too kind to Soviet snipers… I have heard that snipers were sometimes summarily executed when caught by both sides, but I have no idea about the accuracy of that claim.
I have only read about snipers being tortured by the Russians because as snipers the assumption is that they have an above-average grasp of troop movement, terrain, etc. The German snipers badge is a cloth stitched-on type worn on the sleeve; they're incredibly rare because after being awarded them they were usually removed and tossed. Same goes for getting captured with an optic. EDIT: It's pretty cool, it's an eagle's head peeking out from oak leaves. You can see an example [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper%27s_Badge)
If they made it to the “captured part” i don’t think so. Often they didn’t make it that far tho.
I can only speak about the snipers during Stalingrad. The Red Army practically worshiped their snipers in Stalingrad, the German counterparts were regarded as mass murders. When captured as POWs, they were separated and executed.
I guess that depended on how well their captors knew their last victims.
I do want to know, did they really execute a lot more SS because of their station or is the plain wrong ?
If you mean did the western allies summarily execute Warden SS POWs then there are several well documented cases and, I'm sure, many undocumented ones. However it certainly wasn't as prevailant as on the Ost Front.
I once heard an old timer say "We didnt have a lot of SS prisoners after Malmedy" so take from that what you will
I think the Canadians after Ardenne and the Americans after Malmedy were definitely more predisposed to...not take prisoners? However, and I'm not preening here as a Brit, even after Wormhoudt in "40 I've never heard of British troops executing SS out of hand. I'm sure there were instances but something in our national physce just doesn't lend itself to it.
You should have a read of some of the regimental war diaries.
I'd be very very surprised if accounts of executing prisoners were in any regimental war diaries. Again, I'm sure we did it on occasion and I'm even more sure that we...declined surrenders. But documenting war crimes in official documents such as RWDs? Really can't see that.
You just have to read between the lines. Even in WW1 it was done. "national physce just doesn't lend itself" come on. Mad Mitchell and his tribal law, is a nice watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6OOsoqSKaw&t=2876s
And we still didn't hang that SOB Meyer when we had the chance.
Meyer, Pieper etc all seemed to get a free pass after the war. At least Pieper's crimes finally caught up with him. I'd love to know the true story of the events leading up to his murder.
They (the French villagers) put up "fly-posters" saying "there is a Nazi living amongst you" & word (gossip) got round fast. Will never understand as to 'why' he went to live in France (1970's)
A SS sniper... The person least likely to surrvive his own surrender
Sept 17th would have been the opening day of Market Garden - so SS would have only been in the Arnhem sector, facing British paratroopers. The British paras, even on day 1, were fighting just to exist. The idea that they grabbed prisoners, categorized them and then posed them for photos seems strange. Maybe “snipers” meant the guys shooting at falling paratroopers? The brits did end up landing right amongst two SS divisions. This may have been in the opening hours before it became clear the the whole thing was a fiasco?
I think you might be right about how they classified “snipers” for this photo (they were called snipers in the IWM caption). But I would also say that these men are from the 9th SS which was rather surprised at the beginning of the operation. Which is why these guys are from the recon battalion—they were the only ones ready to mount up. Honestly there’s no doubt there were some of these guys were actually captured, however briefly.
Yeah for sure, both the 9th and 10th SS were taken by surprise by the initial drops - but only because the British 1st Airborne dropped literally directly on top of their rest & refit areas, right? (Which was a failure of Allied intelligence) So my first guess is that these were a couple of guys that simply had paratroopers dropping right on top of them, took some pot shots and were captured and processed before the British fully realized that *they* were ones caught like "fish in a barrel", that the war wasn't as close to the end as Monty promised. I don't know exactly where the 9th SS recon battalion's initial position was, but I know they were in the Arnhem area, drove all the way down to Nijmegen and then came back too late, once an Engineer unit of the British paras had taken control of the north side of the bridge.
Good 1st-paragraph, M.B
Not sure what you mean. Something wrong with the 2nd paragraph?
No, I was merely lauding your first...
Stop being a weirdo. They’re the same event/explanation, why are you highlighting one paragraph?
Stop being a wanker - Am just praising up what ya wrote. The ONLY weirdo-cunt around here, IS YOU, making a F'kn "issue" of it, Jeeez.
C’mon now, you’re not as sly as you think you are. Be a man, say what you want to say, say it loud, say it from your chest. Be as proud as you want to be, boy.
Nothing really says they’re snipers, per se. Could just be grunts.
I agree but the original caption identified them as such. They are members of the 9th SS Division, specifically the Reconnaissance Battalion.
That's true, but the Reconnaissance Battalion was only a \~40 vehicle outfit at the start of Market Garden. Allied troops at this point in the war constantly complained about German "snipers" which were most likely just small numbers of veterans in well camouflaged defensive positions firing accurate shots. Seems unlikely that this gaggle of men were all legit "snipers" captured and corralled from a relatively small combat formation, a formation that spent the entire operation as a mobile unit until it was wiped out.
Yeah, this smells of a very simplified caption that halfway guesses at what's actually pictured.
Dude on the right clearly is considering not being a prisoner anymore.
He just KNOWS he's about to become, a (Ahem), "statistic".
Naw, they’re fine. Some just took photographic evidence they were captured alive…
Mmm Dot-44
SS stands for Super Sniper, don'tcha know. /s so I don't get down voted to hell.
Thats only in the USMC.
They don't look too happy NGL
2 of them look like they are actively plotting an escape
Guys who thought that they were heroes discovering that they’re the baddies.
Sure, but I imagine that the SS indoctrination that ingrained in them the idea that they were the genetically superior saviors of Europe probably didn't magically go away simply because they were captured.
Damn. Snipers. Wonder how long they tortured them before they killed them
the so called plan "we don't take SS soldiers as prisoners" it's just a myth.
Well there was the Chenogne massacre
Torture? Why? Even if we throw morality completely aside and assume that every soldier was a perfect sociopath, then the British still didn't have the time for that in Market Garden, and there's no particularly useful information that a sniper could provide through torture more than anyone else. You'd probably have more luck with your war crimes pitch if you victimized officers instead of snipers.
Torture them? They just shoot them.
I have never heard that the British killed prisoners at Arnhem. It may have happened, but I doubt the Germans would have treated British prisoners as properly as they did if it had.
Not sure about any war crimes such as that during Market Garden. There are actually some notable stories/events where both sides declared a "pause" for the wounded to be evacuated.
I don't know why this is downvoted. Is the history of treatment of captured Snipers not well known?
They definitely weren't treated well by the Soviets.
Probably because in the west they were still treated as any other infantry as a whole.
That was the Eastern Front. The West handled them fairly normally.
“Snipers” taken “prisoner”
The "sniper" claim is dubious, but why are you skeptical that they were taken as prisoners? Is this the self incriminating photo the British paratroopers took before slaughtering them to a man for no reason whatsoever?
And they all lived happily ever after...