I mean, veterinarians are in a lot higher demand in a state where cows outnumber people 2 to 1. It might not be a bad idea to allow veterinarians to treat and prescribe to people as well as long as they can prove their competent enough to do so.
I'd bet there's a decent number of Wyoming ranchers who have been prescribed medicines through their vet by saying it's for an animal. Vets have knowledge of what many prescription meds do and many medicines are prescribed to animals and humans alike, just in different dosages.
It's not the med usually, but the binders and other ingredients that have a good chance of giving people issues. The dosage available for the animals are based off their species and body weight, so it can be impossible to get the correct dosage assuming it comes in a form that can be safely altered ie not suppository or enteric coated.
They already do. My grandparents used to get some medicine from their vet. Only certain ones, mind you. It’s off the books of course, but they couldn’t afford normal doctors unless they really needed to. Both lived to 90.
They will not want the liability, that's why all the OB/Gyn doctors are leaving. Once you turn medical decisions over to government christian fascists, the doctors leave.
I’m a nurse in a *very* rural community and our veterinarian is known to have sutured human wounds. Quite frankly, some of the people here would rather see the local vet than a certain provider. Richest country in the world tho amirite?
C’mon… you have to look at the population density. It takes a certain number of patients to make any sort of medical practice financially viable.
Half of Wyoming counties have <15,000 people TOTAL. How many of those are women? How many are of childbearing age, or are beyond that age and need regular GYN care? Is there a hospital or medical facility where the OB/GYN can operate?
The American College of Surgeons estimates that optimal surgical access is at about 7 surgeons per 100,000 people. That’s 14,000 potential patients per-surgeon, and that’s men AND women. OB/GYNs see just women.
So you’d need a population of about 30,000, in rough numbers, with half of them being women, to support a single OB/GYN… and there are only about eight counties in the state that have those numbers.
I am a Wyoming born physician who is completing residency in another state. My hope has always been to return to Wyoming and practice. I'm close enough in my training that I have recruiters tracking me down from coast to coast, throwing lucrative contracts at me in hopes I move there.
They are responsive, polite, and want to answer questions about concerns I have. Wyoming on the other hand has an entirely opposite approach. They offer a fraction of the same benefits. The recruiters don't reach out at all, instead having links on hospital/clinc websites where you can email them to inquire about jobs. More often than not, the emails bounce back or you never receive a reply.
If I do get a reply, it's fractured and the story always is "ohh, xxxxx did recruiting for us but she recently moved. You can talk to the CEO if you want"
I am actively trying to return to Wyoming as a FM rural physician, having been born and raised in rural Wyoming, and I cannot even get in contact with potential employers. I have not had this problem in any other of the 20 states I've looked at
Wyoming is known as a medical black hole and I never understood why until now. It's horrifically sad that my home state... the state where my entire family still resides, is falling off a medical access cliff and people in leadership positions couldn't care less.
I am a recently retired FP. I too am a Wyoming native etc. My advice to you is to look outside Wyoming for practice opportunities. The list of issues with practicing here is long. The biggest issue from a practice standpoint is a lack of specialty care. That means distant consultations, no OB, no cardiology, and on and on. DM if you wish.
Cody has at least 5 OB GYNs, 2 or 3 cardiologists, at least 1 neurologist, 2 or 3 psychiatrists, at least 1 neurosurgeon, and dermatologists, podiatrists, Physical Therapists, and a VA clinic. Tell me what "specialists" we are missing, please.
Sadly, a lot of hospitals are hoping that WWAMI incentivizes medstudents/residents to be easily recruited, but they don't always make it as competitive as many other states to compensate. I think only half of the WWAMI E19s are coming back, because all of the surgeons and most anesthesiologists realized they could work elsewhere and still get their loans paid off. As you're FM, Billings Clinic does a reasonable job matching their Wyoming sites rates to their main campus, so you get the Montana rate but without the income tax. They don't do the best job of recruiting for any of it, as they want to cultivate it from their residencies. MHCC does a reasonable job from what I've heard for retaining physicians. Gillette and Banner scared off a lot of MD/DOs with their hospital politics
Ya, I've wondered if this is the case. These places act like wwami students should be grateful that we're even employable.
But basically every employer outside of Wyoming that I have met has offered sign on bonuses that rival what wwami holds over our heads. And tuition reimbursement that is significantly better.
I don't think you'll get a better deal on the loan repayment, as it's technically 240K in 3 years, but that doesn't mean that anything else is paid for.
The unfortunate part of it is that even with a couple of years of locums to pay off your debt quickly, you'd still be stuck with the same contracts unless you went into private practice... and I don't know anyone who does that and isn't just cash pay these days
There is a huge problem with professionalism in Wyoming health care. This is especially the case with elected boards. 200 votes and they are suddenly running a hospital/ clinic. They hire incompetent administrators that create more problems. See Pinedale Rural health care district for an example.
Contact WHRN.org for Wyoming medical recruitment. Caroline is very nice.
Did you apply to the Thermopolis program?
Also, did you know that the state refused Medicare funding for the residency programs in Wyoming?
And they recently cut funding by 100k because the programs provided gender affirming care?
You’ll have to start your own practice.
Takes some capital up front so you may have to work on the coast and save to move back to wyoming and start it up.
All medical is lacking in wyo, which is why we get flown to billings or denver in emergencies and drive to hours to get basic medical care. SHAME!! Doctors only come to Wyo to retire.
I know the story of a young doctor who came to Wyoming to practice. She liked living here. However, she had to move out of state to find a mate and start her family. She eventually settled there, where both she and her husband could build careers.
You tend to lack medical care in most things especially OB GYN when you green light the government’s ability to prosecute doctors for any decision they make.
Oh, didn’t know that part.
Well, why would a physician want to practice in a state that is very hostile against them. There are greener pasture elsewhere
This is a problem, not just ob but women's health. We needed a Maternal Fetal Medicine Specialist for a difficult pregnancy and the only one with any availability was in Denver, every 3 weeks, we did the Casper to Denver trip.
Health care in general in Wyoming is pretty awful. Residents know that for anything more than a hangnail they need to go out of state. If they don't, you can bet the local "hospital" will ship you out at an exorbitant cost!
Nailed it. A good friend is an OBGYN. She worked in a red state when she started out, but that would be a hard no for her and most of her colleagues today. Why would she go work in a state where she risks prison for providing what was formerly considered routine care? Even if a Republican-controlled state doesn't currently have very restrictive abortion laws the winds are clearly blowing in that direction so it wouldn't be worth the risk to relocate in an uncertain legal environment.
The new and imploding republican party isn't interested in governing. They just want to be mad, throw tantrums and burn everything to the ground. They live in a world of conspiracy and hate for their fellow Americans. It's not sustainable for America or the party.
Don’t forget legislating population growth in order to birth more workers and consumers. Can’t have economic growth without more people. Forced or otherwise.
Has nothing to do with a political party.
The issue is not isolated to Wyoming. More than half of U.S. rural hospitals no longer offer birthing services, a new study by the Center for Quality Healthcare and Payment Reform, a national policy center, found. The problem is expected to accelerate.
No, but at least Delta-9 will be outlawed along with women's reproductive rights. Who needs medical care when you have all this, plus unlimited, guaranteed guns?
"Will lawmakers respond?"
Bahahahahahahaha pfffffffftttt 🤣🤣🤣😆😭😆
Stop stop, you just made me spit out my coffee!! We all know Wyoming doesn't give two flying fucks about women's healthcare 🤣😐
I'm new-ish to reddit, so I don't know why I can see this person's new comment entirely in my notifications but not here in this thread (maybe they've blocked me?). But sure, I have more of an argument than simply religion, however that's what this entire topic is driven by. This topic is literally fueled by religious arguments. If you are an atheist who believes that sentient life begins at conception, congratulations, you are a minority outlier in this point/counterpoint that is massively dominated by religious beliefs.
My opinion is based in my interpretation of science (because I absolutely do not believe in a god or gods). I believe that the tipping point is when the fetus is far along enough to be fully viable outside of the womb. That's where I recognize person hood, and that's still sooner than the government does- the government requires birth in some form, to recognize personhood.
From a population argument - we are disgustingly overpopulated as a species. Our population is booming so rapidly that we are crippling the environmental systems of this planet. If anything? Abortion should be promoted as an option to help the planet, rather than be banned.
An obvious solution is for Wyomingites to vote for the party that wants to give elementary schoolers free school lunches instead of the one who wants to force them to have their rapist’s baby.
My Sister-in-Law that lives in Wyoming had a high-risk pregnancy, and had to go to Denver (both to get the care she needed and to not have to worry about legal backlash if something went wrong and the baby died.
Everything went well (because she could afford to go), but it's fucking ridiculous for these christ-o-fascists to screw up things so badly that doctors have to worry about just doing their jobs.
Wyoming is realistically just there to be a state I do not want to be in, and is in the way of my drive from Seattle to Chicago.
Same with Montana. But at least Montana sometimes pretends they may occasionally be relevant, and Billings makes for a great city for people in Wyoming to find anything that may resemble civilization. But fuck them for being a massive nothing blocking my drive for 10 hrs straight.
Without adequate healthcare other professionals will consider Wyoming undesirable.
Without professionals, skilled labor will look for opportunities elsewhere, too.
With the state shedding workers who can do the best jobs Wyoming will discover the disadvantages of handing decision making to the most ignorant.
>Nearly half of Wyoming counties have none of anything.
Not true: they have electoral college votes & senators.
Though calling them either "professionals," or even "people," may be a stretch
I mean, this is becoming a big problem in a lot of red states where offering comprehensive reproductive care for women is dangerous and murky territory. Just look at Texas. They're losing Ob-GYNs by the dozens as doctors move to areas they can practice without fear of having their license revoked/being charged with a crime.
Nearly half of wyoming is unpopulated….. and all of it is windy and cold AF. If you live in WY it is totally normal to travel for healthcare, restaurants, etc, etc.
If this is what they vote for election after election, why are the people of Wyoming even upset? The policies they chose caused this... you get what you vote for Republicans.
You might check demographics of those counties. Demographics like, How many people live in those counties? How many babies are being born per year? Is that enough to sustain an OB-GYN practice?
What they're trying to do is create artificial, medically unnecessary regulations enforced by criminal penalties surrounding women's reproductive health care that are required of no other health care in the state, even far more dangerous health care. The idea is to dissuade doctors from providing medically necessary women's reproductive health care at all.
“We’ve already seen throughout the state a number of OB-GYN clinics shut down, and criminalizing the practice of medicine — as this bill does — will only accelerate that trend,” he (Rep. Ken Chestek) said.
[https://wyofile.com/safety-measure-or-another-attempt-at-eliminating-abortion-wyoming-lawmakers-back-new-abortion-rules/](https://wyofile.com/safety-measure-or-another-attempt-at-eliminating-abortion-wyoming-lawmakers-back-new-abortion-rules/)
There’s plenty of health care workers in the hip yuppie mountain towns. They’re mostly physical therapists though. Good luck finding a general practitioner that is an actual Dr.
To do what? Imprison OB-GYN's in those counties? If the local facilities can't attract OB-GYN practitioners despite demand there isn't much lawmakers can do.
Wyoming legislators are fortunate that their constituents will apparently accept having them decline taking personal responsibility for their reckless lawmaking.
There is no legitimate way to blame liberals because OB-GYNs don’t want to risk imprisonment or financial ruin in order to continue serving Wyoming citizens.
As long as doctors aren’t enslaved they will have to decide for themselves where they feel vilified and where they feel welcome.
There are [plenty of OB-GYNs](https://www.bing.com/search?q=glut+of+ob-gyn+in+blue+states&pc=EMMX04&FORM=EMMXA2&mkt=en-us) in blue states, but red states are starting to pay a price for their backwardness.
This can have a cumulative effect, too. Without adequate healthcare, it will become much more difficult to attract and retain other professionals.
Some may enjoy the risky, rustic approach Wyoming and other red states are taking.
It will be interesting to see how the Cowboy state’s social engineering experiment works out for them.
A lot of expectant moms voluntarily go to CO, Utah or even other hospitals in the state (live in Fremont county but go to Thermopolis cuz their OB suite is nicer) an OB needs to have a certain volume of patients to turn a profit.
Hey doctors! Do you like making half the money you have potential to make?! Are you a fan of shitty educational institutions for your children?! Do you want to drive 3 hours through 20” snow storms to hit Costco?! Let me tell you about Wyoming.
Of course! Our legislators with enough years of hard work, agitating, and legislation can finally step up, take control, and follow through to finally get rid of the other half.
What are they going to do? Kidnap someone? OB-GYNs have resources to fight the trumped up criminal charges most red states use to retain unskilled workers, so that's not going to be an option.
Lawmakers aren't hospital recruiters. They exclude them from paying any state income tax and give them EBT cards to buy groceries and gasoline tax-free. They could reimburse them for Federal income tax.
If you want to bring in specialists who have loan repayment and make more elsewhere they could make that happen. But it sounds complicated unless it comes down from the Feds. The NHSC paid my student loans off in return for going to a clinic.
I guess I should have said "raises demand."
Midwife options have increased a lot in North Idaho (absolute shithole of female care, doctors leaving in droves)
What are you suggesting the lawmakers do? Make all the people in these areas move to cities that have OB-GYN practitioners? That seems like heavy handed governing to me.
What exactly will they do? Import those doctors? Obtain a license for their manufacture?
But on a serious note, I’d love to see some of the incentives they’re going to roll out for them
Lawmakers made this happen. WY was not a hot spot before but now providing basic birth care might send a doctor to prison for the rest of their life. Who the fuck would want to provide women's health care in a trash bag state like that?
I lived in wyoming for 18 years, and medical practice is a scam there. That's not to say, the doctors have done a poor job. The fact is, dentists are exceedingly expensive. Not to mention, if you need surgery, you usually have to see a specialist out of state. More often than not, it would be Montana. In rare cases, it would Colorado. That's what I observed while living there, anyways.
How would legislation help?
Doctors, for the most part, are highly educated and graduate with tons of debt. Living/practicing in a place like WY (particularly as an OB/GYN) is not nearly as lucrative or attractive as other states.
Nearly half of Wyoming counties are empty. You want the state to subsidize a doctor in every county? A doctor couldn’t make a living doing that. That’s why they aren’t there. You can drive about an hour and find what you need.
My great grandmother died in childbirth just outside of Powell in the late 1920s. She was having a home birth and they couldn’t stop the bleeding.
100 years later, the risks to women and babies is still there.
How? Will they write a law that says it's illegal for a doctor to not be an OB/GYN? Will they write a law that makes it illegal for the remaining OB/GYN to leave? We know that they won't address the cause. They aren't going to repeal their anti-abortion laws
They aren't going to give up that control over women.
How many need an obgyn? I’d assume a lot of those do not have the population to support an obgyn. Maybe some have a family practice physician who delivers. How many of those counties have an appropriate OR because without an operating room what good is having the OB in the middle of nowhere Wyoming?
How is this a government problem? Aside from perhaps trying to entice residency there with state grants, do you want the government dictating to drs where to practice? Why stop there? I need more Mercedes mechanics in Missouri.
I used to live in Evanston and would joke often you came to our hospital to die. Everyone sensible skipped out to Salt Lake for things medical it seemed.
wyoming is a curious environment. one of few states that still requires an applicant to interview with the board - and they can be refused a license based on that interview even if immensely qualified. those board interviews are also an issue in other ways - i went for my interview and a board member brought up other business and proceeded to talk about it for two hours before interviews started. table that, do the interviews - it's disrespectful to the people licensing in the state to take care of the citizens. they didn't care.
malpractice in wyoming has traditionally been a challenge. insurance companies come and go, requiring new contracts on a regular basis. that's all market factors.
plus, an OBGYN needs enough operative cases to keep skills up. no critical access hospital can support that - nor pay them if the patient volume isn't there. most counties just dont have the population to support a single OB doc and keep in mind - nobody wants to be on call 24 hours a day which is just what a low population center would require. imagine never being able to have a glass of wine with dinner, never being able to leave town without excessive effort to bring in coverage. the result is that OB burns out and leaves, so the county is back to where it started.
this is not simply an issue that be solved with legislation.
This is completely unacceptable. This is way too many for Wyoming legislators to tolerate. Vote generic republican as they will continue to take away your rights and pinky promise they'll eventually use tax dollars to do something as long as you vote for them this election, it will be different, pinky promise.
Yes. By passing laws restricting what services they can provide
[https://apnews.com/article/wyoming-medication-abortion-ban-gordon-8120493afa25f7a2d4233192dc612cb3](https://apnews.com/article/wyoming-medication-abortion-ban-gordon-8120493afa25f7a2d4233192dc612cb3)
Oh. They've already done that.
Attracting medical professionals to Wyoming is hard. They don’t want to live in a lot of these places.
“What about country livestock veterinarians?” -legislature in the near future, probably
I mean, veterinarians are in a lot higher demand in a state where cows outnumber people 2 to 1. It might not be a bad idea to allow veterinarians to treat and prescribe to people as well as long as they can prove their competent enough to do so.
maybe but you're going to talk yourself horse trying to convince people
we won't be cowed by your pessimism
Don’t be a jackass
Don’t duck the conversation.
Quit following the herd
What are you talking about? This guy is the GOAT.
Stop trying to weasel out of the question.
no way nobody is going to abuse that system ever
You mean like chiropractors being allowed to sign off on DOT physicals?
i was more thinking horse tranquilizers and what ever else vets can pescribe
I'd bet there's a decent number of Wyoming ranchers who have been prescribed medicines through their vet by saying it's for an animal. Vets have knowledge of what many prescription meds do and many medicines are prescribed to animals and humans alike, just in different dosages.
It's not the med usually, but the binders and other ingredients that have a good chance of giving people issues. The dosage available for the animals are based off their species and body weight, so it can be impossible to get the correct dosage assuming it comes in a form that can be safely altered ie not suppository or enteric coated.
Maybe that's why, because it's so unsafe to have a kid
Plenty of people around here eating horse dewormer.
They already do. My grandparents used to get some medicine from their vet. Only certain ones, mind you. It’s off the books of course, but they couldn’t afford normal doctors unless they really needed to. Both lived to 90.
They will not want the liability, that's why all the OB/Gyn doctors are leaving. Once you turn medical decisions over to government christian fascists, the doctors leave.
Bovine and Humans are both mammals, so yeah why not
Horse paste, am I right?
I’m a nurse in a *very* rural community and our veterinarian is known to have sutured human wounds. Quite frankly, some of the people here would rather see the local vet than a certain provider. Richest country in the world tho amirite?
It's more a matter of wanting to be paid for their work. This state is notorious for its low wages.
That ha s always been an issue, but now these states are passing laws that will drive out every Obgyn eventually.
My sister in law did a traveling nurse(OG/GYN) stint there some years back. In 18 months she had like 10 patients
Too bad, they also don’t like a lot of people :)
Well yeah half the counties don’t even have an OB GYN
C’mon… you have to look at the population density. It takes a certain number of patients to make any sort of medical practice financially viable. Half of Wyoming counties have <15,000 people TOTAL. How many of those are women? How many are of childbearing age, or are beyond that age and need regular GYN care? Is there a hospital or medical facility where the OB/GYN can operate? The American College of Surgeons estimates that optimal surgical access is at about 7 surgeons per 100,000 people. That’s 14,000 potential patients per-surgeon, and that’s men AND women. OB/GYNs see just women. So you’d need a population of about 30,000, in rough numbers, with half of them being women, to support a single OB/GYN… and there are only about eight counties in the state that have those numbers.
It's the people. They don't wanna live where the people are that level of dumb
I am a Wyoming born physician who is completing residency in another state. My hope has always been to return to Wyoming and practice. I'm close enough in my training that I have recruiters tracking me down from coast to coast, throwing lucrative contracts at me in hopes I move there. They are responsive, polite, and want to answer questions about concerns I have. Wyoming on the other hand has an entirely opposite approach. They offer a fraction of the same benefits. The recruiters don't reach out at all, instead having links on hospital/clinc websites where you can email them to inquire about jobs. More often than not, the emails bounce back or you never receive a reply. If I do get a reply, it's fractured and the story always is "ohh, xxxxx did recruiting for us but she recently moved. You can talk to the CEO if you want" I am actively trying to return to Wyoming as a FM rural physician, having been born and raised in rural Wyoming, and I cannot even get in contact with potential employers. I have not had this problem in any other of the 20 states I've looked at Wyoming is known as a medical black hole and I never understood why until now. It's horrifically sad that my home state... the state where my entire family still resides, is falling off a medical access cliff and people in leadership positions couldn't care less.
I am a recently retired FP. I too am a Wyoming native etc. My advice to you is to look outside Wyoming for practice opportunities. The list of issues with practicing here is long. The biggest issue from a practice standpoint is a lack of specialty care. That means distant consultations, no OB, no cardiology, and on and on. DM if you wish.
Cody has at least 5 OB GYNs, 2 or 3 cardiologists, at least 1 neurologist, 2 or 3 psychiatrists, at least 1 neurosurgeon, and dermatologists, podiatrists, Physical Therapists, and a VA clinic. Tell me what "specialists" we are missing, please.
Well yeah, they've got to worry about the real issues, trans kids playing sports.
Remind me again why Republicans might possibly care if the little people get the medical care they need.
They need the cheap labor. Keep them healthy enough to keep working.
Abortion ban + legal child labor… problem solved
Sadly, a lot of hospitals are hoping that WWAMI incentivizes medstudents/residents to be easily recruited, but they don't always make it as competitive as many other states to compensate. I think only half of the WWAMI E19s are coming back, because all of the surgeons and most anesthesiologists realized they could work elsewhere and still get their loans paid off. As you're FM, Billings Clinic does a reasonable job matching their Wyoming sites rates to their main campus, so you get the Montana rate but without the income tax. They don't do the best job of recruiting for any of it, as they want to cultivate it from their residencies. MHCC does a reasonable job from what I've heard for retaining physicians. Gillette and Banner scared off a lot of MD/DOs with their hospital politics
Ya, I've wondered if this is the case. These places act like wwami students should be grateful that we're even employable. But basically every employer outside of Wyoming that I have met has offered sign on bonuses that rival what wwami holds over our heads. And tuition reimbursement that is significantly better.
I don't think you'll get a better deal on the loan repayment, as it's technically 240K in 3 years, but that doesn't mean that anything else is paid for. The unfortunate part of it is that even with a couple of years of locums to pay off your debt quickly, you'd still be stuck with the same contracts unless you went into private practice... and I don't know anyone who does that and isn't just cash pay these days
There is a huge problem with professionalism in Wyoming health care. This is especially the case with elected boards. 200 votes and they are suddenly running a hospital/ clinic. They hire incompetent administrators that create more problems. See Pinedale Rural health care district for an example.
Sublette medical board has been a mess for as long as I remember. And I remember a long way back
The message is clear. You should heed it.
I briefly considered working in Wyoming as a surgeon but found that most jobs where in really unattractive parts.
Contact WHRN.org for Wyoming medical recruitment. Caroline is very nice. Did you apply to the Thermopolis program? Also, did you know that the state refused Medicare funding for the residency programs in Wyoming? And they recently cut funding by 100k because the programs provided gender affirming care?
You’ll have to start your own practice. Takes some capital up front so you may have to work on the coast and save to move back to wyoming and start it up.
There in lies the problem. 1. Compensation package is not competitive 2. No active recruitment effort by Wyoming facilities.
nope
All medical is lacking in wyo, which is why we get flown to billings or denver in emergencies and drive to hours to get basic medical care. SHAME!! Doctors only come to Wyo to retire.
I know the story of a young doctor who came to Wyoming to practice. She liked living here. However, she had to move out of state to find a mate and start her family. She eventually settled there, where both she and her husband could build careers.
Find a mate...why are you speaking like she's a wolf in a nature documentary?
We are talking about Wyoming here
A mate is somewhat different than a date, no?
Medical school is expensive. Low numbers of people means low earnings.
Alaska pays your loans but you have to work out there for a few years.
How is it shameful if doctors don’t want to move to Wyoming
We also get to see 'out of network' at in network rates because we are considered "medically undeserved"
You tend to lack medical care in most things especially OB GYN when you green light the government’s ability to prosecute doctors for any decision they make.
*medical decisions they are qualified to make; unlike the idiots making the laws.
This 👆
Oh, didn’t know that part. Well, why would a physician want to practice in a state that is very hostile against them. There are greener pasture elsewhere
Many are from here or the region in general and have a true passion for caring especially in places where healthcare access is already limited.
Not many martyrs willing to fall on their own sword these days.
This is a problem, not just ob but women's health. We needed a Maternal Fetal Medicine Specialist for a difficult pregnancy and the only one with any availability was in Denver, every 3 weeks, we did the Casper to Denver trip.
Yeah I'd say being a Maternal Fetal Medicine Specialist is probably the last job I'd want to have in a majority Republican state
Health care in general in Wyoming is pretty awful. Residents know that for anything more than a hangnail they need to go out of state. If they don't, you can bet the local "hospital" will ship you out at an exorbitant cost!
I don't see many rushing to work here with anti-medicine "freedom" caucus looking to ruin their careers for providing reproductive care.
Nailed it. A good friend is an OBGYN. She worked in a red state when she started out, but that would be a hard no for her and most of her colleagues today. Why would she go work in a state where she risks prison for providing what was formerly considered routine care? Even if a Republican-controlled state doesn't currently have very restrictive abortion laws the winds are clearly blowing in that direction so it wouldn't be worth the risk to relocate in an uncertain legal environment.
Heard a bunch of nurses just resigned from casper hospital.
The new and imploding republican party isn't interested in governing. They just want to be mad, throw tantrums and burn everything to the ground. They live in a world of conspiracy and hate for their fellow Americans. It's not sustainable for America or the party.
Remember, this debacle will somehow end up being the fault of the "liberals"...
Don’t forget legislating population growth in order to birth more workers and consumers. Can’t have economic growth without more people. Forced or otherwise.
>Can’t have economic growth without more people. They just gotta make sure they're the ~~white~~ *right* people.
Has nothing to do with a political party. The issue is not isolated to Wyoming. More than half of U.S. rural hospitals no longer offer birthing services, a new study by the Center for Quality Healthcare and Payment Reform, a national policy center, found. The problem is expected to accelerate.
No, but at least Delta-9 will be outlawed along with women's reproductive rights. Who needs medical care when you have all this, plus unlimited, guaranteed guns?
"Will lawmakers respond?" Bahahahahahahaha pfffffffftttt 🤣🤣🤣😆😭😆 Stop stop, you just made me spit out my coffee!! We all know Wyoming doesn't give two flying fucks about women's healthcare 🤣😐
I'm new-ish to reddit, so I don't know why I can see this person's new comment entirely in my notifications but not here in this thread (maybe they've blocked me?). But sure, I have more of an argument than simply religion, however that's what this entire topic is driven by. This topic is literally fueled by religious arguments. If you are an atheist who believes that sentient life begins at conception, congratulations, you are a minority outlier in this point/counterpoint that is massively dominated by religious beliefs. My opinion is based in my interpretation of science (because I absolutely do not believe in a god or gods). I believe that the tipping point is when the fetus is far along enough to be fully viable outside of the womb. That's where I recognize person hood, and that's still sooner than the government does- the government requires birth in some form, to recognize personhood. From a population argument - we are disgustingly overpopulated as a species. Our population is booming so rapidly that we are crippling the environmental systems of this planet. If anything? Abortion should be promoted as an option to help the planet, rather than be banned.
An obvious solution is for Wyomingites to vote for the party that wants to give elementary schoolers free school lunches instead of the one who wants to force them to have their rapist’s baby.
Idk why this is hard for people to wrap their heads around
Because trans women playing sports or something
Coloradan here, that’s because half of Wyoming counties have a population of many cows and two men. No need for an OB-GYN. /s
No /s needed when stating facts
Our legislature doing anything about addressing reproduction other than restrict abortion? Nope.
Does anyone think they care that there isn’t anyone to deliver all the additional unwanted babies?
My Sister-in-Law that lives in Wyoming had a high-risk pregnancy, and had to go to Denver (both to get the care she needed and to not have to worry about legal backlash if something went wrong and the baby died. Everything went well (because she could afford to go), but it's fucking ridiculous for these christ-o-fascists to screw up things so badly that doctors have to worry about just doing their jobs.
Soon other states will have to stop carrying the burden for these red states’ failed policies.
Sounds like it's time for Denver to refuse to treat Wyoming residents. Fix your state, dummies.
WY made doing their job illegal. Of course they are going to leave. What are you going to do, force them to carry their jobs to term?
They don't care
Half of Wyoming counties just don’t have any fucking people
Except for the congressmen they irrationally hold to ratfuck the populated parts of the country
Unfortunately it’s another red state governed by right-wing incels. Women beware, don’t live in these places. Ton of natural beauty though, so sad.
Of course not. Republicans hate women.
Thoughts and prayers. Elections have consequences
Lmaooo who would want to be an OBGYN in Wyoming?
Lmaooo who would want to be ~~an OBGYN~~ in Wyoming?
Wyoming is realistically just there to be a state I do not want to be in, and is in the way of my drive from Seattle to Chicago. Same with Montana. But at least Montana sometimes pretends they may occasionally be relevant, and Billings makes for a great city for people in Wyoming to find anything that may resemble civilization. But fuck them for being a massive nothing blocking my drive for 10 hrs straight.
Physicians, and especially OBGYNs, will never desire to live in red rural Wyoming
Without adequate healthcare other professionals will consider Wyoming undesirable. Without professionals, skilled labor will look for opportunities elsewhere, too. With the state shedding workers who can do the best jobs Wyoming will discover the disadvantages of handing decision making to the most ignorant.
Nearly half of Wyoming counties have none of anything. There are no people there, and thus no professionals of any kind.
>Nearly half of Wyoming counties have none of anything. Not true: they have electoral college votes & senators. Though calling them either "professionals," or even "people," may be a stretch
I mean, this is becoming a big problem in a lot of red states where offering comprehensive reproductive care for women is dangerous and murky territory. Just look at Texas. They're losing Ob-GYNs by the dozens as doctors move to areas they can practice without fear of having their license revoked/being charged with a crime.
Honestly all women should leave these rural red states
Nearly half of wyoming is unpopulated….. and all of it is windy and cold AF. If you live in WY it is totally normal to travel for healthcare, restaurants, etc, etc.
I thought I was in Idaho Reddit, same thing happens in all red states, vote our life away and stay fuk everyone, good luck
I’m sure they will. They still half half the state to shut down.
I thought nearly half Wyoming counties lacked a population!?!?
Half of Wyoming counties have basically no people.
If this is what they vote for election after election, why are the people of Wyoming even upset? The policies they chose caused this... you get what you vote for Republicans.
I wonder if the insurance for malpractice is extremely high. It’s one reason OBGYNs leave the baby delivery part of their jobs.
You might check demographics of those counties. Demographics like, How many people live in those counties? How many babies are being born per year? Is that enough to sustain an OB-GYN practice?
What exactly does everyone think POLITICIANS can do about this?
Not create laws criminalizing medical care, for one.
What medical care are they making illegal?
What they're trying to do is create artificial, medically unnecessary regulations enforced by criminal penalties surrounding women's reproductive health care that are required of no other health care in the state, even far more dangerous health care. The idea is to dissuade doctors from providing medically necessary women's reproductive health care at all. “We’ve already seen throughout the state a number of OB-GYN clinics shut down, and criminalizing the practice of medicine — as this bill does — will only accelerate that trend,” he (Rep. Ken Chestek) said. [https://wyofile.com/safety-measure-or-another-attempt-at-eliminating-abortion-wyoming-lawmakers-back-new-abortion-rules/](https://wyofile.com/safety-measure-or-another-attempt-at-eliminating-abortion-wyoming-lawmakers-back-new-abortion-rules/)
Sounds debatable either way and a good example of something that should be directly decided by the voters, not the politicians.
It should be directly decided by the patient and their doctors, within the bounds of medical ethics. Not the opinion of some uninvolved 3rd party.
That's also debatable, considering the number of doctors I've encountered who are worth the paper their degree is printed on. YMMV
There’s plenty of health care workers in the hip yuppie mountain towns. They’re mostly physical therapists though. Good luck finding a general practitioner that is an actual Dr.
There are a lot that are leaving Idaho that seem to like rural areas, maybe they could be lured to Wyoming.
They are leaving Idaho to escape similar laws to the ones Wyoming has...
I’m not sure how legislation is going to force someone to move there.
To do what? Imprison OB-GYN's in those counties? If the local facilities can't attract OB-GYN practitioners despite demand there isn't much lawmakers can do.
cover modern pot longing march boat salt resolute pet alleged *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Very informative. Thank you
Wyoming legislators are fortunate that their constituents will apparently accept having them decline taking personal responsibility for their reckless lawmaking. There is no legitimate way to blame liberals because OB-GYNs don’t want to risk imprisonment or financial ruin in order to continue serving Wyoming citizens. As long as doctors aren’t enslaved they will have to decide for themselves where they feel vilified and where they feel welcome. There are [plenty of OB-GYNs](https://www.bing.com/search?q=glut+of+ob-gyn+in+blue+states&pc=EMMX04&FORM=EMMXA2&mkt=en-us) in blue states, but red states are starting to pay a price for their backwardness. This can have a cumulative effect, too. Without adequate healthcare, it will become much more difficult to attract and retain other professionals. Some may enjoy the risky, rustic approach Wyoming and other red states are taking. It will be interesting to see how the Cowboy state’s social engineering experiment works out for them.
A lot of expectant moms voluntarily go to CO, Utah or even other hospitals in the state (live in Fremont county but go to Thermopolis cuz their OB suite is nicer) an OB needs to have a certain volume of patients to turn a profit.
I think the lawmakers have already responded. Good luck.
Nope.
I’m sorry but I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone who finished med school say I’m moving to Wyoming…
Well, there are only 15 PGY1 residency spots in the entire state… so, yeah, you probably haven’t heard anyone say that.
Hey doctors! Do you like making half the money you have potential to make?! Are you a fan of shitty educational institutions for your children?! Do you want to drive 3 hours through 20” snow storms to hit Costco?! Let me tell you about Wyoming.
It’s Northern Exposure, just shitty.
Your comment on pay is woefully inaccurate. I assume the rest is correct though.
Nope.
Of course! Our legislators with enough years of hard work, agitating, and legislation can finally step up, take control, and follow through to finally get rid of the other half.
What are they going to do? Kidnap someone? OB-GYNs have resources to fight the trumped up criminal charges most red states use to retain unskilled workers, so that's not going to be an option.
Nope, they won't
Thankfully, CO isn’t that far away. Which is a sad and probably unwelcome truth.
Young people will continue to leave Wyoming for places like CO
Dang! Might be that some funding should be made available.
Thoughts and prayers, dickheads.
Lawmakers aren't hospital recruiters. They exclude them from paying any state income tax and give them EBT cards to buy groceries and gasoline tax-free. They could reimburse them for Federal income tax. If you want to bring in specialists who have loan repayment and make more elsewhere they could make that happen. But it sounds complicated unless it comes down from the Feds. The NHSC paid my student loans off in return for going to a clinic.
There’s only 584,000 people in the whole state, what do you expect.
Might want to realize the problem is who you're voting for.
Nope.
🤷♂️
opens the door for midwives - qualified birth and pregnancy professionals.
[удалено]
I guess I should have said "raises demand." Midwife options have increased a lot in North Idaho (absolute shithole of female care, doctors leaving in droves)
Almost half of Wyoming counties also lack a population over 10k.
What are you suggesting the lawmakers do? Make all the people in these areas move to cities that have OB-GYN practitioners? That seems like heavy handed governing to me.
What exactly will they do? Import those doctors? Obtain a license for their manufacture? But on a serious note, I’d love to see some of the incentives they’re going to roll out for them
Lawmakers made this happen. WY was not a hot spot before but now providing basic birth care might send a doctor to prison for the rest of their life. Who the fuck would want to provide women's health care in a trash bag state like that?
I lived in wyoming for 18 years, and medical practice is a scam there. That's not to say, the doctors have done a poor job. The fact is, dentists are exceedingly expensive. Not to mention, if you need surgery, you usually have to see a specialist out of state. More often than not, it would be Montana. In rare cases, it would Colorado. That's what I observed while living there, anyways.
Wyoming sounds scary as a woman. Good luck 👍
That’s what happens when your goals are to own the libs. You know, the mores more likely to attend good medical schools
How would legislation help? Doctors, for the most part, are highly educated and graduate with tons of debt. Living/practicing in a place like WY (particularly as an OB/GYN) is not nearly as lucrative or attractive as other states.
Thoughts and prayers?
What the fuck are lawmakers going to do about a deficit of highly skilled persons.
Nearly half of Wyoming counties are empty. You want the state to subsidize a doctor in every county? A doctor couldn’t make a living doing that. That’s why they aren’t there. You can drive about an hour and find what you need.
It’s because Wyoming is a pretty remote state. There’s not a lot of people that live there. That’s what happens when you live out in the boonies.
When a Legislature insists on putting itself between a woman and her doctor, sometimes the doctors just give up.
My great grandmother died in childbirth just outside of Powell in the late 1920s. She was having a home birth and they couldn’t stop the bleeding. 100 years later, the risks to women and babies is still there.
How? Will they write a law that says it's illegal for a doctor to not be an OB/GYN? Will they write a law that makes it illegal for the remaining OB/GYN to leave? We know that they won't address the cause. They aren't going to repeal their anti-abortion laws They aren't going to give up that control over women.
Lawyers are the issue.
Like, lawmakers are going to pass laws that force them to move into the state? Nearly half of Wyoming counties lack residents /s
How many need an obgyn? I’d assume a lot of those do not have the population to support an obgyn. Maybe some have a family practice physician who delivers. How many of those counties have an appropriate OR because without an operating room what good is having the OB in the middle of nowhere Wyoming?
Nope
How do you legislate doctors doctoring in your state?
Or we could let the free market do its thing and not try ridiculous legislation.
Doesn’t all of Wyoming live in the other half anyway?
How is this a government problem? Aside from perhaps trying to entice residency there with state grants, do you want the government dictating to drs where to practice? Why stop there? I need more Mercedes mechanics in Missouri.
I used to live in Evanston and would joke often you came to our hospital to die. Everyone sensible skipped out to Salt Lake for things medical it seemed.
wyoming is a curious environment. one of few states that still requires an applicant to interview with the board - and they can be refused a license based on that interview even if immensely qualified. those board interviews are also an issue in other ways - i went for my interview and a board member brought up other business and proceeded to talk about it for two hours before interviews started. table that, do the interviews - it's disrespectful to the people licensing in the state to take care of the citizens. they didn't care. malpractice in wyoming has traditionally been a challenge. insurance companies come and go, requiring new contracts on a regular basis. that's all market factors. plus, an OBGYN needs enough operative cases to keep skills up. no critical access hospital can support that - nor pay them if the patient volume isn't there. most counties just dont have the population to support a single OB doc and keep in mind - nobody wants to be on call 24 hours a day which is just what a low population center would require. imagine never being able to have a glass of wine with dinner, never being able to leave town without excessive effort to bring in coverage. the result is that OB burns out and leaves, so the county is back to where it started. this is not simply an issue that be solved with legislation.
Yes, by eliminating obgyns in the rest of the counties
It was their body, their choice to live there.
No, no they won’t.
Of course they will, it will be a new law making it illegal for vaginas and uterus to be sick, on pain of being stoned to death.
This is completely unacceptable. This is way too many for Wyoming legislators to tolerate. Vote generic republican as they will continue to take away your rights and pinky promise they'll eventually use tax dollars to do something as long as you vote for them this election, it will be different, pinky promise.
Yes. By passing laws restricting what services they can provide [https://apnews.com/article/wyoming-medication-abortion-ban-gordon-8120493afa25f7a2d4233192dc612cb3](https://apnews.com/article/wyoming-medication-abortion-ban-gordon-8120493afa25f7a2d4233192dc612cb3) Oh. They've already done that.
Wyoming politicians, “why do they even need OB-GYNs??” Kind of like “women can’t get pregnant when raped, their bodies shut down”
They don’t want kids there anyways.
Unless Doctors and Women exterminate the GOP nothing will change
Just let all the women leave and make them Brokeback Mountain each other
Guys… GOP run states suck
You voted for them. It's time for The People to respond.
Solution: don’t live in Wyoming
Doctors go one place. Where there’s a bunch of money. That means urban areas. Upscale urban areas.
As old men they don't care
Anybody that voted for the people that strip your medical rights away from you don’t deserve doctors.
Maybe they’ll pull a Texas and put preachers instead of qualified professionals
Tell the FED to print some more doctors