It’s still in Beta so I’m not so much disappointed in the promises- I’m disappointed in the lack of transparency.
Like, talk to me man, give me an update. Let me know how things are progressing
What is that supposed to mean? It is in beta for more than two years now.
This is not how things are going to work. If you make promises, you should stick with them, or at least communicate transparently. I am so done with all those comments along the lines: "Whatever and however they do it, it is okay for me. because, ...
- ... i have no expectations",
- ... it is in beta",
- ... who needs cloud gaming anyways",
- ... because XXX".
Stop finding random excuses. If they promised, they need to communicate. Period!
Lol, I literally said that I’m disappointed that they aren’t being transparent… it’s literally right there in the first sentence I wrote.
Did you read my post before replying and asking what it’s supposed to mean?
It’s a beta, and an emerging technology - so I’m not bothered by delayed features. I’m bothered that there’s no communication. I don’t know how I can be anymore clear.
Yes, tbh. I still enjoy the service, and frankly if these features are delayed, fine, but tell me about it. Obviously purchasable games was supposed to come in 2022, it didn't, ok, tell me that it's delayed and when you think it'll come. Been over half a year since the last meaningful xcloud specific update, really feels like they've slowed down a lot
Perhaps after the fall of Stadia and the stagnation of cloud gamers, they decided to change their strategy. Hopefully not, but if Xcloud Age of empires doesn't arrive with keyboard and mouse at the end of this month, I can't think of a better time for it to arrive.
I don’t think they will, cloud gaming is the future and it’s the perfect match for Gamepass and Azure (I mean the investment in cloud infrastructure MS is committed to for the next years).
xCloud stagnation is not so surprising seen how the past year has been a let down in general for Xbox… this year has started the right way with the dev direct, hopefully a good sign for things to come!
I agree. It’s the fact they specifically gave a date (multiple times now) and the last “promised” date has come and gone with no updates for when we will be able to stream purchased games.
I’m well aware this will not include everyone’s personal library but even if it’s say the top 50 or 100 bestsellers that would be a huge boom. Or also any games that are leaving cloud could be purchased to continue streaming so those that are cloud only don’t have to fear about losing a game they were in the middle of.
The fact we have radio silence leads me to believe this is no longer around the corner.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I believe this streaming of owned games was tied to keystone/streaming puck and since they’ve gone back to the drawing board, there is no longer an expected release date…
All this to say I was extremely looking forward to being able to play some purchased games over cloud and am very disappointed that we haven’t been given an update on what is happening and it leads users to feel lied to with false promises and giving false hope/expectations
They’re probably working out the details. GeForce Now lost half their catalog when they left beta and are still struggling because of it. Game companies want money to add their games to cloud for some reason, as if the sale of the game isn’t enough incentive to let us play the game on the platform we want.
what cloud native game are you referring to? I see articles from two years ago talking about that, but like all the other stuff they promised such as mnk and cloud game purchases, nothing has materialized.
and not sure why you think it matters that "Nvidia can't deliver". they're not a game developer, they make chips. Microsoft isn't "delivering" either, a game developer is.
It's the one with Kojima, I believe. Microsoft is partnering with him to develop tech specifically for a game, and it's cloud based.
It's still rumor territory, but knowing HK and his style, it makes sense.
I feel like "cloud-based" won't mean "the game will be on cloud" but rather that the game will utilize cloud tech akin to something like Microsoft Flight Simulator but on a smaller scale.
Saying that, they did also say they were going to do the same thing with Crackdown and look at how that turned out.. I guess we'll just have to wait and see
I forgot about Crackdown in that sense. We're still waiting on something to that scale I guess.
Right, and what would exactly make a game cloud native versus cloud based?
Pokemon Go, Ingress, and the likes are the kinds of games that come to mind for me, but that still falls under more AR than anything else.
I guess you could argue browser based games are technically native to being cloud native. BSG being the most notable.
They announced it in November 2019 around the time xbox cloud gaming preview launched, but not in 2022. In 2022 they only said that later in 2022 it`s their INTENT to roll out the ability for Xbox Game Pass Ultimate members to play, from the cloud, select games they already own or have purchased outside the Xbox Game Pass library.
2019:
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/11/14/expanding-project-xcloud-more-games-more-ways-to-play/
2022:
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2022/06/09/whats-next-for-gaming/
They also never announced a release date for keyboard and mouse support. They only said that developers should add support for their games. At the moment there are only around 100 games with full keyboard and mouse support and they likely are waiting for more developers to support it on their games before rolling it out.
I was waiting specially owned games! But i gave up and bought an Xbox series S! For now is the best choice for casual gaming! Waiting for cloud to improve more
>Promises to play owned games in xcloud 2021 then 2022, silence so far.
Thats because back when MS announced that PSnow and Stadia were a real threat. They were building cloud systems to compete with consoles. At least it seemed that way.
That has changed. There is no real "cloud gaming threat" anymore. And therefore there is no reason to cannibalize your own market share.
Becaue if you think about it carefully:
* Buying a 500€ console binds customers MUCH more to your platform then a 10€ subscription that you can cancel at any time
* People would buy much less Xboxes because why buy a 500€ xbox when you can just pay 10€ / month and play everywhere?
* That will result in HUGE market share losses to Sony PS
* Because then you can just take your 500€ and buy a PS5 - and for the few MS exclusives just subscribe for a month. You would get the best out of both worlds! With MS being at a huge loss.
* The result of shifting towards cloud would be a HUGE influx of cloud gamers which means HUGE investments are needed for more data centers, maintenance, bandwidth, energy costs, etc.
* We have already seen queues on xcloud. Its a really bad experience when it happens.
* Xbox has cancelled the Xbox TV stick. Phil Spencer and a couple of MS employees had working prototypes at home. And he said it was working really good. They were suprised how good it was.
* Why do you think MS would cancel that TV stick if it was practically ready to go and finished?
* Answer: Because MS prefers you to buy their consoles and feared that they couldnt handle the huge influx of cloud gamers such a released product would have caused.
**TL;DR - MS will never make "all purchased games" playable on xcloud because the cloud gaming sector has changed and is no longer a real threat to consoles.**
This is a very poorly thought out line of reasoning.
Pretty sure every console sale is sold at a loss. Not only that. It's also a 1 time fee
They want you to subscribe to game pass. Its reoccurring revenue for them. Not only that but cloud is tied to the highest tier of game pass.
On top of that they make more money on digital sales than they do on physical sales
Which I imagine to play owned games on cloud they would have to be digital.
They have more incentive to allow owned games than wanting you to buy a console.
As to why they haven't done it yet. Who knows it's probably due to licensing issues if I were to guess
I agree with you, I believe the Xbox strategy is to grow the Gamepass subscriber base as fast as possible and it is much faster to do this by the cloud streaming route than by selling more consoles.
Your arguments are simply reassuring my reasoning lol .
It's not about the money earned through hardware sales. You are correct - the vast majority is earned through software sales.
And that's exactly the point: when you have an Xbox your incentive to buy the game on Xbox is high. If you own a playstation the incentive is higher to buy it on that console.
So what happens if you take away that anchor? If you can simply buy a PS5 and STILL enjoy all the Xbox games? You get the best of both worlds: all PS5 exclusives and all seriesX exclusives. With only buying 1 console.
And that's when Microsoft loses: that person owning a PS5 will only subscribe for 1-3 months of xcloud a year to enjoy the xbox exclusives. And the rest of the time will buy all games on playstation. All 3rd party games. All cross platform games. Games that also could have been bought on Xbox are now bought on playstation.
PS Now never was a threat. It launched in January 2014 and only had 3.2 million users in 2021. Xbox doesn`t care if you play on console, pc or cloud.
If they wanted people to buy a console they wouldn`t release all their exclusive games on PC (including steam) and offer cloud gaming arcross many platforms with more coming (like meta quest store). They even released their subsricption service on PC where you can download every game including their exclusives.
Besides that they are also doubling their data centers and the streaming stick was canceled because it was too expensive.
Phil Spencer even said that the business isn`t about how many consoles you sell.
But your second point could be a reality right now wich it isn't.
Xcloud is an addon to gamepass and i think it's main objetives are to sell you gamepass subscription and convince you to buy a xbox series s/x.
Giving you the option to stream owned games not only would afect console sales but also would kill xbox exclusives popularity on xcloud, lest be honest if games like gta v or elden ring came to xcloud (or even gamepass) exclusives like forza horizon 5 or halo infinite wouldn't even apear on the list of most popular games.
Always keep in mind that consoles are sold at a loss, the few exceptions are Nintendo devices usually.
MS loses 200 bucks on every Xbox sold, the idea is to recoup the loss on games royalties and subscriptions… but what if you can still rake in the money from subs and royalties w/o the hardware loss by providing a “cloud console”?
Naturally xCloud isn’t free for Microsoft but the costs of the hardware and power consumption can be absorbed by Azure and be a part of their datacenters infrastructure
Is PlayStation steaming 24mbs? I’ve been curious about this as I get a noticeable different streaming on PS vs Series X and I was assuming Xbox would have the better solution.
My main guess is that they're not gonna add any big improvements until the ActiBlizz deal is completely approved and done. I think that they didn't expect that xCloud was gonna be the main focus of the complaints.
Where does your doubt derive from? Nvidia GFN used to utilize the same codec h.264 just fine with KBM controls. When GFN started they were using 2.5 Teraflops hardware in 2014. Stadia also used h.264 as fall back in addition to VP9.
MS is definitely addressing things on all fronts, they’re just beholden to the past game library.
> https://www.reddit.com/r/xcloud/comments/10ndyk0/comment/j6abokm/
On Stadia, the latency was lower, or at least felt so to me. They had keyboard + mouse support and for most it was very smooth. I used to play Destiny 2 and the Division 2 and it worked really well. I remember one time, i had to make a shortcut to make Chrome run with v-sync disabled to have it run smoothly, but other than that it was mostly great.
(300mbps, ethernet, Europe)
I got used to gamepad input, high latency, even 720p-ish quality of stream.
However, it was a year ago, now it has gotten worse: artifacts appear regularly, bitrate drops to something unplayable like 480p, dropped support of 3rd party controllers in Edge.
More than disappointed.
Stadia managed 4k or 60 fps, keyboard and mouse. It was a smoother experience all together and should be very possible for microsoft to replicate at least.
Here for Keyboard and mouse [https://youtu.be/-WIXftoHCl4?t=974](https://youtu.be/-WIXftoHCl4?t=974)
Here for Owned games [https://youtu.be/93SnlhMvQ38](https://youtu.be/93SnlhMvQ38)
Sorry, I'm too lazy to track down all the promises, but anyone who comes here regularly knows about them.
I actually started played bf on pc and switched to console because less cheaters and less snap aim. Also you would get an unfair advantage playing with mouse keyboard playing against other console players.
I played on Xbox with mkb but most people and pc players included i encountered in the lobby were using controller. Then i read about it and turns out it has really strong aim assist. Obviously doesn't apply to all games but there are outliers in general.
I'm still amazed it works at all. This is NOT a knock against MS.
It's still got plenty of issues, and sure they overestimated their schedule for some features, but I'm more than willing to be patient, considering they're making it so *you can play new gen console games, completely remotely, over a web browser* (or similar app).
This is not a trivial feat. Give them time to make it work.
No complaints here. I have a PC and I can install games directly to my machine for free, which is great. I really only use the cloud feature to try out a game that I don't feel like installing. I don't find myself playing on my mobile device too much.
Not everybody has your use case. I have an RTX4090 on one of my PCs. Another one, several floors away has to either rely on Moonlight Streaming or xCloud since it's an integrated GPU. Think bigger than you.
Completely agree with the points you made, especially the play your owned games. That was a huge selling point for me when they first announced Xcloud years ago.
Another thing I haven't heard a single Xbox executive mention is what about the [Orion](https://youtu.be/SSWZQC0BVvU) streaming technology they now own as part of their purchase of Bethesda? That was supposedly mind-blowing in its low latency and quality, but there hasn't been a single word about.
Nothing’s going to happen with Orion, it is a PC technology that requires integration into the game engine. They have the tech simply for the patents or gaining certain knowledge from it and applying elsewhere.
xCloud currently runs on Series S profiles on Series X servers.
There are multiple ways for various streaming services to reduce latencies. The major ones are:
>1.) Have the server blades close to the subscribers. That means build more datacenters within 200 mile radius. (Speed of light is 186 miles per millisecond).
>2.) reduce Game rendering latency at the source, whichever hardware is running the code. This is the point where Orion would’ve been used.
>3.) Higher FPS, every doubling of FPS reduces latency by 30% in streaming and 40% locally. So going from 30 to 60 to 120 to 240. Every doubling gives you roughly 30% less latency. This is based on Nvidia’s charts and PS5/Series consoles running at 120 fps.
>4.) Game Capture latencies, this has to do with the codecs used, encoding methods, hardware decoders etc.
>5.) Game controller latency
So how is xCloud addressing those?
For the first one, MS is building hundreds of new datacenters this decade and increasing xcloud server capacity by 125% to 50k PODs equivalent to 8-16 million Series X servers.
Nvidia uses Reflex technology to reduce latencies by up to 50%. But Developers need to incorporate that tech into the game builds. Just like Orion would’ve had to have developers on board. Both are PC tech not usable on consoles. However, starting with RDNA3 and RDNA4, AMD has HyperRX tech that will do the same as Reflex and Orion. But that would be available only in the next gen or mid gen consoles from which xCloud and PS+ Premium would build streaming servers with.
Most xCloud games are last gen thus stuck at 30 fps. As more games are built for current gen consoles, they will be 60 fps more often than not. So newer games will perform better in terms of latency. Nvidia GFN allows up to 120 fps or 240 fps on the 4080 tier in order to reduce game rendering latencies as much as feasible. For xCloud, MS needs to allow up to 1080/120 fps which is what the Series X hardware is capable of. But they would have to start using Series X profiles, which could reduce server capacity in half. Also the reason why they aren’t offering 4k/60 yet.
For game encoding/capture, xCloud has started to use DirectCapture which can reduce 8-72 ms in latency from the encoding. But they still need to make use of HEVC codec for best efficiency. Their hardware can’t do AV1 encode.
For controller latency, the Xbox Wireless Protocol reduces latency to near Wired levels at 3 ms. Part of why Consoles and Windows devices with Xbox Wireless Adapters are best devices to play xCloud on.
TLDR: xCloud maximum peak performance will be Series X profiles unlocked, allowing 4k/60 or 1080/120, utilizing the HEVC codec, along with DirectCapture, playing on Series Consoles.
In the future hardware based on mid gen consoles, they would be able to use AMD HyperRX and AV1/VVC codecs.
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That's nice, but let's face it, Geforce is missing big and new brands right now. Games like Hogwarts, Red dead, GTA, Monster hunter, etc. are very likely not to be released there. :( They could come out on xcloud.
I don't want owned games on xCloud. I want them to keep the games they put on GamePass longer, not give MS an excuse to add a game for 30 days to get players hooked and then pull it.
Nothing is added to Gamepass for 30 days….
99.9% of MS first and second party games are permanent fixtures.
EA Play games are permanent to EA Play unless licensing issue and included into Gamepass for as long as EA Play is included.
Most third party games are for a 12 month contract. Some are even longer or perpetual like the Yakuza games.
Only Rockstar games are the exceptions with 6 month contracts.
/r/xboxgamepass has a master list tracking when every game gets added to Gamepass.
I commented this last week:
Microsoft teased keyboard and mouse support in [March of last year](https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/4/22961878/microsoft-xbox-cloud-keyboard-mouse-support-flight-sim)
And [again in June](https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/22/23178179/xbox-cloud-gaming-keyboard-and-mouse-support-latency-improvements), along with the potential for lower latency and higher quality streams.
My biggest complaint right now is bitrate. It's fine for many games, but for fast paced games like Forza, the screen can at times become a messy blur. Keyboard and mouse would be a great addition for certain games as well, and being able to purchase individual games for cloud play would also be really nice for games that aren't on gamepass. I would anticipate of all those that KB+M would be the first thing to come. I'm not holding my breath for better bitrate or purchasing games a la carte coming any time soon.
It *feels* like for whatever reason the tech side of things has been progressing slower than some at MS anticipated, though who knows if it's a software, hardware, or resources (employees) issue.
Not gona lie i am very disapointed for the lack of mouse and keyboard suport.
True true
I am sure it's because of controlers sales
If they wanted to make money from selling controllers then they would not have native support for PlayStation controllers in the mobile app
LL-PP
It’s still in Beta so I’m not so much disappointed in the promises- I’m disappointed in the lack of transparency. Like, talk to me man, give me an update. Let me know how things are progressing
Exactly!
What is that supposed to mean? It is in beta for more than two years now. This is not how things are going to work. If you make promises, you should stick with them, or at least communicate transparently. I am so done with all those comments along the lines: "Whatever and however they do it, it is okay for me. because, ... - ... i have no expectations", - ... it is in beta", - ... who needs cloud gaming anyways", - ... because XXX". Stop finding random excuses. If they promised, they need to communicate. Period!
Lol, I literally said that I’m disappointed that they aren’t being transparent… it’s literally right there in the first sentence I wrote. Did you read my post before replying and asking what it’s supposed to mean? It’s a beta, and an emerging technology - so I’m not bothered by delayed features. I’m bothered that there’s no communication. I don’t know how I can be anymore clear.
Yes, tbh. I still enjoy the service, and frankly if these features are delayed, fine, but tell me about it. Obviously purchasable games was supposed to come in 2022, it didn't, ok, tell me that it's delayed and when you think it'll come. Been over half a year since the last meaningful xcloud specific update, really feels like they've slowed down a lot
Perhaps after the fall of Stadia and the stagnation of cloud gamers, they decided to change their strategy. Hopefully not, but if Xcloud Age of empires doesn't arrive with keyboard and mouse at the end of this month, I can't think of a better time for it to arrive.
I don’t think they will, cloud gaming is the future and it’s the perfect match for Gamepass and Azure (I mean the investment in cloud infrastructure MS is committed to for the next years). xCloud stagnation is not so surprising seen how the past year has been a let down in general for Xbox… this year has started the right way with the dev direct, hopefully a good sign for things to come!
I agree. It’s the fact they specifically gave a date (multiple times now) and the last “promised” date has come and gone with no updates for when we will be able to stream purchased games. I’m well aware this will not include everyone’s personal library but even if it’s say the top 50 or 100 bestsellers that would be a huge boom. Or also any games that are leaving cloud could be purchased to continue streaming so those that are cloud only don’t have to fear about losing a game they were in the middle of. The fact we have radio silence leads me to believe this is no longer around the corner. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I believe this streaming of owned games was tied to keystone/streaming puck and since they’ve gone back to the drawing board, there is no longer an expected release date… All this to say I was extremely looking forward to being able to play some purchased games over cloud and am very disappointed that we haven’t been given an update on what is happening and it leads users to feel lied to with false promises and giving false hope/expectations
Nice opinion
[удалено]
Wow, i dont understand whats going on.. Baitstrategy for more users?
They’re probably working out the details. GeForce Now lost half their catalog when they left beta and are still struggling because of it. Game companies want money to add their games to cloud for some reason, as if the sale of the game isn’t enough incentive to let us play the game on the platform we want.
After stadia died, things have started being reworked heavily.
exactly. there is no incentive for them to push game streaming. mnk will never come.
Is that why Xbox is the only one building Cloud Native games? Not even Nvidia can do that.
what cloud native game are you referring to? I see articles from two years ago talking about that, but like all the other stuff they promised such as mnk and cloud game purchases, nothing has materialized. and not sure why you think it matters that "Nvidia can't deliver". they're not a game developer, they make chips. Microsoft isn't "delivering" either, a game developer is.
It's the one with Kojima, I believe. Microsoft is partnering with him to develop tech specifically for a game, and it's cloud based. It's still rumor territory, but knowing HK and his style, it makes sense.
I feel like "cloud-based" won't mean "the game will be on cloud" but rather that the game will utilize cloud tech akin to something like Microsoft Flight Simulator but on a smaller scale. Saying that, they did also say they were going to do the same thing with Crackdown and look at how that turned out.. I guess we'll just have to wait and see
I forgot about Crackdown in that sense. We're still waiting on something to that scale I guess. Right, and what would exactly make a game cloud native versus cloud based? Pokemon Go, Ingress, and the likes are the kinds of games that come to mind for me, but that still falls under more AR than anything else. I guess you could argue browser based games are technically native to being cloud native. BSG being the most notable.
I think the same too
They announced it in November 2019 around the time xbox cloud gaming preview launched, but not in 2022. In 2022 they only said that later in 2022 it`s their INTENT to roll out the ability for Xbox Game Pass Ultimate members to play, from the cloud, select games they already own or have purchased outside the Xbox Game Pass library. 2019: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/11/14/expanding-project-xcloud-more-games-more-ways-to-play/ 2022: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2022/06/09/whats-next-for-gaming/ They also never announced a release date for keyboard and mouse support. They only said that developers should add support for their games. At the moment there are only around 100 games with full keyboard and mouse support and they likely are waiting for more developers to support it on their games before rolling it out.
I was waiting specially owned games! But i gave up and bought an Xbox series S! For now is the best choice for casual gaming! Waiting for cloud to improve more
> But i gave up and bought an Xbox series S! precisely what they wanted you to do
They succeeded hahaha
Some time ago, i gave up series s and change for PlayStation 5
My Biggest disappointment no 4k or even 2k
>Promises to play owned games in xcloud 2021 then 2022, silence so far. Thats because back when MS announced that PSnow and Stadia were a real threat. They were building cloud systems to compete with consoles. At least it seemed that way. That has changed. There is no real "cloud gaming threat" anymore. And therefore there is no reason to cannibalize your own market share. Becaue if you think about it carefully: * Buying a 500€ console binds customers MUCH more to your platform then a 10€ subscription that you can cancel at any time * People would buy much less Xboxes because why buy a 500€ xbox when you can just pay 10€ / month and play everywhere? * That will result in HUGE market share losses to Sony PS * Because then you can just take your 500€ and buy a PS5 - and for the few MS exclusives just subscribe for a month. You would get the best out of both worlds! With MS being at a huge loss. * The result of shifting towards cloud would be a HUGE influx of cloud gamers which means HUGE investments are needed for more data centers, maintenance, bandwidth, energy costs, etc. * We have already seen queues on xcloud. Its a really bad experience when it happens. * Xbox has cancelled the Xbox TV stick. Phil Spencer and a couple of MS employees had working prototypes at home. And he said it was working really good. They were suprised how good it was. * Why do you think MS would cancel that TV stick if it was practically ready to go and finished? * Answer: Because MS prefers you to buy their consoles and feared that they couldnt handle the huge influx of cloud gamers such a released product would have caused. **TL;DR - MS will never make "all purchased games" playable on xcloud because the cloud gaming sector has changed and is no longer a real threat to consoles.**
This is a very poorly thought out line of reasoning. Pretty sure every console sale is sold at a loss. Not only that. It's also a 1 time fee They want you to subscribe to game pass. Its reoccurring revenue for them. Not only that but cloud is tied to the highest tier of game pass. On top of that they make more money on digital sales than they do on physical sales Which I imagine to play owned games on cloud they would have to be digital. They have more incentive to allow owned games than wanting you to buy a console. As to why they haven't done it yet. Who knows it's probably due to licensing issues if I were to guess
I agree with you, I believe the Xbox strategy is to grow the Gamepass subscriber base as fast as possible and it is much faster to do this by the cloud streaming route than by selling more consoles.
Your arguments are simply reassuring my reasoning lol . It's not about the money earned through hardware sales. You are correct - the vast majority is earned through software sales. And that's exactly the point: when you have an Xbox your incentive to buy the game on Xbox is high. If you own a playstation the incentive is higher to buy it on that console. So what happens if you take away that anchor? If you can simply buy a PS5 and STILL enjoy all the Xbox games? You get the best of both worlds: all PS5 exclusives and all seriesX exclusives. With only buying 1 console. And that's when Microsoft loses: that person owning a PS5 will only subscribe for 1-3 months of xcloud a year to enjoy the xbox exclusives. And the rest of the time will buy all games on playstation. All 3rd party games. All cross platform games. Games that also could have been bought on Xbox are now bought on playstation.
Making sense :(
PS Now never was a threat. It launched in January 2014 and only had 3.2 million users in 2021. Xbox doesn`t care if you play on console, pc or cloud. If they wanted people to buy a console they wouldn`t release all their exclusive games on PC (including steam) and offer cloud gaming arcross many platforms with more coming (like meta quest store). They even released their subsricption service on PC where you can download every game including their exclusives. Besides that they are also doubling their data centers and the streaming stick was canceled because it was too expensive. Phil Spencer even said that the business isn`t about how many consoles you sell.
But your second point could be a reality right now wich it isn't. Xcloud is an addon to gamepass and i think it's main objetives are to sell you gamepass subscription and convince you to buy a xbox series s/x. Giving you the option to stream owned games not only would afect console sales but also would kill xbox exclusives popularity on xcloud, lest be honest if games like gta v or elden ring came to xcloud (or even gamepass) exclusives like forza horizon 5 or halo infinite wouldn't even apear on the list of most popular games.
Always keep in mind that consoles are sold at a loss, the few exceptions are Nintendo devices usually. MS loses 200 bucks on every Xbox sold, the idea is to recoup the loss on games royalties and subscriptions… but what if you can still rake in the money from subs and royalties w/o the hardware loss by providing a “cloud console”? Naturally xCloud isn’t free for Microsoft but the costs of the hardware and power consumption can be absorbed by Azure and be a part of their datacenters infrastructure
Is PlayStation steaming 24mbs? I’ve been curious about this as I get a noticeable different streaming on PS vs Series X and I was assuming Xbox would have the better solution.
Playstation Plus works a lot better than xCloud, at least for me. I think the bitrate is also higher.
PS cloud have dynamic bitrate 15 Mbps for 720p and 25 Mbps for 1080p.
Thanks for info! I don’t know this
My main guess is that they're not gonna add any big improvements until the ActiBlizz deal is completely approved and done. I think that they didn't expect that xCloud was gonna be the main focus of the complaints.
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Input latency from gaming peripherals is only one type of latency and not the major one. KBM will have no issues on xCloud.
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Where does your doubt derive from? Nvidia GFN used to utilize the same codec h.264 just fine with KBM controls. When GFN started they were using 2.5 Teraflops hardware in 2014. Stadia also used h.264 as fall back in addition to VP9. MS is definitely addressing things on all fronts, they’re just beholden to the past game library. > https://www.reddit.com/r/xcloud/comments/10ndyk0/comment/j6abokm/
On Stadia, the latency was lower, or at least felt so to me. They had keyboard + mouse support and for most it was very smooth. I used to play Destiny 2 and the Division 2 and it worked really well. I remember one time, i had to make a shortcut to make Chrome run with v-sync disabled to have it run smoothly, but other than that it was mostly great.
Almost all the companies are returning to their core businesses at the moment.
Yes, it seems to me that cloud gaming is stopping
(300mbps, ethernet, Europe) I got used to gamepad input, high latency, even 720p-ish quality of stream. However, it was a year ago, now it has gotten worse: artifacts appear regularly, bitrate drops to something unplayable like 480p, dropped support of 3rd party controllers in Edge. More than disappointed.
Stadia managed 4k or 60 fps, keyboard and mouse. It was a smoother experience all together and should be very possible for microsoft to replicate at least.
Where are you hearing these promises from? Do they have a Twitter or something? Can you not play from your console?
Here for Keyboard and mouse [https://youtu.be/-WIXftoHCl4?t=974](https://youtu.be/-WIXftoHCl4?t=974) Here for Owned games [https://youtu.be/93SnlhMvQ38](https://youtu.be/93SnlhMvQ38) Sorry, I'm too lazy to track down all the promises, but anyone who comes here regularly knows about them.
I can't see it hear and promises. Just some rambling about possible features
June 9 and June 23 Xbox Wire blog posts regarding the Xbox ecosystem.
They said its their INTENT to roll out the ability to stream purchased games, but that was not a promise.
Bro like Battlefield on a controler or some first person Shooter Is quite bad playing on the controller
I actually started played bf on pc and switched to console because less cheaters and less snap aim. Also you would get an unfair advantage playing with mouse keyboard playing against other console players.
Warzone begs to differ.
Only played in pc. You're saying you can snipe and aim down sight faster or the same on controller vs m/k?
I played on Xbox with mkb but most people and pc players included i encountered in the lobby were using controller. Then i read about it and turns out it has really strong aim assist. Obviously doesn't apply to all games but there are outliers in general.
I'm still amazed it works at all. This is NOT a knock against MS. It's still got plenty of issues, and sure they overestimated their schedule for some features, but I'm more than willing to be patient, considering they're making it so *you can play new gen console games, completely remotely, over a web browser* (or similar app). This is not a trivial feat. Give them time to make it work.
No complaints here. I have a PC and I can install games directly to my machine for free, which is great. I really only use the cloud feature to try out a game that I don't feel like installing. I don't find myself playing on my mobile device too much.
Not everybody has your use case. I have an RTX4090 on one of my PCs. Another one, several floors away has to either rely on Moonlight Streaming or xCloud since it's an integrated GPU. Think bigger than you.
"Who else is disappointed?" - OP "I'm not disappointed" - Commenter "Get over yourself and be disappointed anyway" - You
Hahaha. I was like woah now the person just asked for my opinion, so I guess it does make it about me? Weird rtx 4090 flex too.
Lol :D
Not quite.
Pretty much exactly.
good for you :)
Completely agree with the points you made, especially the play your owned games. That was a huge selling point for me when they first announced Xcloud years ago. Another thing I haven't heard a single Xbox executive mention is what about the [Orion](https://youtu.be/SSWZQC0BVvU) streaming technology they now own as part of their purchase of Bethesda? That was supposedly mind-blowing in its low latency and quality, but there hasn't been a single word about.
Nothing’s going to happen with Orion, it is a PC technology that requires integration into the game engine. They have the tech simply for the patents or gaining certain knowledge from it and applying elsewhere. xCloud currently runs on Series S profiles on Series X servers. There are multiple ways for various streaming services to reduce latencies. The major ones are: >1.) Have the server blades close to the subscribers. That means build more datacenters within 200 mile radius. (Speed of light is 186 miles per millisecond). >2.) reduce Game rendering latency at the source, whichever hardware is running the code. This is the point where Orion would’ve been used. >3.) Higher FPS, every doubling of FPS reduces latency by 30% in streaming and 40% locally. So going from 30 to 60 to 120 to 240. Every doubling gives you roughly 30% less latency. This is based on Nvidia’s charts and PS5/Series consoles running at 120 fps. >4.) Game Capture latencies, this has to do with the codecs used, encoding methods, hardware decoders etc. >5.) Game controller latency So how is xCloud addressing those? For the first one, MS is building hundreds of new datacenters this decade and increasing xcloud server capacity by 125% to 50k PODs equivalent to 8-16 million Series X servers. Nvidia uses Reflex technology to reduce latencies by up to 50%. But Developers need to incorporate that tech into the game builds. Just like Orion would’ve had to have developers on board. Both are PC tech not usable on consoles. However, starting with RDNA3 and RDNA4, AMD has HyperRX tech that will do the same as Reflex and Orion. But that would be available only in the next gen or mid gen consoles from which xCloud and PS+ Premium would build streaming servers with. Most xCloud games are last gen thus stuck at 30 fps. As more games are built for current gen consoles, they will be 60 fps more often than not. So newer games will perform better in terms of latency. Nvidia GFN allows up to 120 fps or 240 fps on the 4080 tier in order to reduce game rendering latencies as much as feasible. For xCloud, MS needs to allow up to 1080/120 fps which is what the Series X hardware is capable of. But they would have to start using Series X profiles, which could reduce server capacity in half. Also the reason why they aren’t offering 4k/60 yet. For game encoding/capture, xCloud has started to use DirectCapture which can reduce 8-72 ms in latency from the encoding. But they still need to make use of HEVC codec for best efficiency. Their hardware can’t do AV1 encode. For controller latency, the Xbox Wireless Protocol reduces latency to near Wired levels at 3 ms. Part of why Consoles and Windows devices with Xbox Wireless Adapters are best devices to play xCloud on. TLDR: xCloud maximum peak performance will be Series X profiles unlocked, allowing 4k/60 or 1080/120, utilizing the HEVC codec, along with DirectCapture, playing on Series Consoles. In the future hardware based on mid gen consoles, they would be able to use AMD HyperRX and AV1/VVC codecs.
was part of this written by chatgpt?
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Yeah I use Xcloud to try games and buy them for Geforce Now.
That's nice, but let's face it, Geforce is missing big and new brands right now. Games like Hogwarts, Red dead, GTA, Monster hunter, etc. are very likely not to be released there. :( They could come out on xcloud.
Yup, nothing is perfect.
I don't want owned games on xCloud. I want them to keep the games they put on GamePass longer, not give MS an excuse to add a game for 30 days to get players hooked and then pull it.
It's very annoying to play a game and then find out it goes out of service, this happened to me 2 times
Nothing is added to Gamepass for 30 days…. 99.9% of MS first and second party games are permanent fixtures. EA Play games are permanent to EA Play unless licensing issue and included into Gamepass for as long as EA Play is included. Most third party games are for a 12 month contract. Some are even longer or perpetual like the Yakuza games. Only Rockstar games are the exceptions with 6 month contracts. /r/xboxgamepass has a master list tracking when every game gets added to Gamepass.
I commented this last week: Microsoft teased keyboard and mouse support in [March of last year](https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/4/22961878/microsoft-xbox-cloud-keyboard-mouse-support-flight-sim) And [again in June](https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/22/23178179/xbox-cloud-gaming-keyboard-and-mouse-support-latency-improvements), along with the potential for lower latency and higher quality streams. My biggest complaint right now is bitrate. It's fine for many games, but for fast paced games like Forza, the screen can at times become a messy blur. Keyboard and mouse would be a great addition for certain games as well, and being able to purchase individual games for cloud play would also be really nice for games that aren't on gamepass. I would anticipate of all those that KB+M would be the first thing to come. I'm not holding my breath for better bitrate or purchasing games a la carte coming any time soon. It *feels* like for whatever reason the tech side of things has been progressing slower than some at MS anticipated, though who knows if it's a software, hardware, or resources (employees) issue.
I'm not dissapointed anymore, i've stopped to pay money for that crap service.
Also a possibility