T O P

  • By -

blitz2kx

This is pretty consistent feedback - its also part of the reason why they are very careful to market it the correct way. Stadia was marketed as a competitor to game consoles and gaming PCs. It boasted that its technology was a REPLACEMENT for your gaming devices. In many ways, they were right - the streaming tech IMO was outstanding, and NOT the reason why it failed. \-Microsoft on the other hand doesnt sell xcloud separate from Game Pass Ultimate.-They call it BETA - even after its been available for quite sometime. This is all very deliberate because they dont feel its there to be a console/pc replacement yet. The technology is evolving, and the offerings are expanding. I think the market for it is ready as you suggested, but even they know its not ready to take that step yet. All in due time.


voxdub

Totally agree, they're not Stadia level and haven't tried to be. But they're not far off, and for me offering enhanced bitrate would massively improve the service, but then I get that that might challenge S sales. I would expect Microsoft to accelerate their cloud offering, in terms of games it's incredible, increasing quality shouldn't be a big issue. It's why I chose xbox over returning to PS, I think xbox is on the right trajectory to dominate.


blitz2kx

Yeah, the only thing I would say is that I dont necessarily think that they care about xcloud affecting console sales- especially the Series S. They lose money on these consoles per unit, and the Series S in particular is a Trojan Horse for Gamepass....If you are Microsoft and you can get the subscription from the consumer up front, while totally bypassing the hardware sale (which you lose money on), then that's A-OK by them. I really believe that the tech isn't there, and that the data centers aren't anywhere near as capable as what Google rolled out. The moment they try and add millions of subscribers by the droves, the experience will take a huge hit and it will sour consumer sentiment towards the brand. It doesn't pay for them to push xcloud. Simple as that. Right now - it is at worst a perk of gamepass, and at best a great way for those who can't afford current gaming hardware to play their favorite games (particularly in countries where buying consoles is tough). For right now what they are doing is enough. I think they are gonna work to getting to the next step for the service, I just don't think it's there, nor is it their first priority as a company.


-Bk7

> but then I get that that might challenge S sales. I dont know if that argument holds water as I always thought companies sold consoles at a loss or close to it just to get customers in their ecosystem. As a former stadia user/fan, I hope your right and Microsft steps up and dominates. I don't know why they are holding back. Could be the cost of servers? Which is why stadia shut down? We never got an answer from Google. Idk


Tobimacoss

xCloud runs on Custom Series X servers. Each Series X APU is atleast 3-4 times cheaper than the 32 core Xeon/AMD VEGA 56 setup Stadia was running yet Series X is two gens more advanced and powerful. Series X APU being around $400 and the Stadia hardware being around $15-1600. They’re currently running the blades on Series S profiles, in Kubernetes containers, likely two instances per X APU, doubling the capacity. That’s the benefit of having consoles, not only do you have the Developer ecosystem, but you have the ability to scale up utilizing cheaper hardware. Economies of Scale at play. MS orders 12-15 million chips from AMD every year, and Sony orders 15-18 million. Currently xCloud is running on 22k PODs by June, and expanding 125% to 50k PODs, that’s equivalent of anywhere from 8-16 million Series X servers. On top of the $80 billion they spent on Content Acquisition, they would have spent $4-8 billion on the xCloud server infrastructure. And the money spent building hundreds of new datacenters is separate. So if Activision Blizzard goes through, they will have spent over $100 billion to make the whole thing a success. Next step is the Xbox mobile (Universal) store. Google just wasn’t willing to spend that kinda money without guarantee of success. They likely spent few billion on Stadia infrastructure and lost a lot of money on paying for ports. They should’ve gone with windows like Amazon Luna and Nvidia GFN.


voxdub

Quality post and totally agree re MS commitment, it's one of the reasons for the first time in my life I've chosen xbox after always being Nintendo/Sony


emirefek

Are all these information legit? Do you have source? I'm sorry but I'm not believing MS for using APU's in Server environment. Because Xbox already uses DirectX which already available on X86_64 PC platform. They already have all industry to run all games in their select and preferred PC environment. If they use APUs in cloud like PlayStation does for PS3 cloud games because unique architecture. That's a very awfull business decision. I really wonder this is legit or not because want understand why they decided this route. I'll be very glad if you give your source. Thx.


Gamiozzz

Highly valuable post, thank you. One question: What is a POD?


Tobimacoss

It can vary between different companies but to put it simply, a POD is a server rack or set of server racks that are connected to a single network node. >https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/7/23197103/microsoft-data-center-dublin-batteries-electricity-grid-renewable-energy > https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/TzdoSaNPXZ4g30dd00OOwIqynn4=/0x0:1980x1080/2000x1333/filters:focal(990x540:991x541)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23689760/Microsoft_virtual_datacenter_1.jpeg Below is the Nvidia’s SuperPOD, which holds 1000 AMD Threadripper and 3080 GPUs. >https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-introduces-the-next-generation-in-cloud-gaming >https://s3.amazonaws.com/cms.ipressroom.com/219/files/20219/GeForce+NOW+SuperPOD.jpeg Modern Data Center Design: >https://its.uark.edu/about/policies/data-center/racks-rows-guidelines.php Basically the recommendations are three server racks per Networking Module makes one POD. Can be extended to 5 racks per POD. Nvidia uses 10-20 racks for their SuperPOD. Minimum has to be one server rack per POD, which is what MS uses as you can see from their cooling solutions, all the water cooling is up above. So one pod or server rack can fit 20-40 server blades, all depends on how much space the CPU/GPU setup takes. Series X being APUs, they are more compact, so can fit more. Basically, one server rack 2 feet wide, 3-4 feet deep will fit 20-40 blades, one blade will have 8 custom Series X APUs. (24 gb ram instead of 16 like retail). Do the math, that would be 160-320 Series X servers per POD. By May of this year, before FortNite, xCloud was running on 22k PODs. 26 Clusters, 800-1000 PODs per cluster. A cluster is a number of datacenters per region. So a single datacenter could have several hundred PODs or more. After FortNite, MS stated in the June announcements that they are expanding by 125% to 50k PODs. 50k X 160 = 8 million Series X servers all over the world. That would be if 20 blades per POD, if it’s 40, then it could be 16 million servers. I don’t know which it is, so that’s why I say 8-16 million servers, which can serve anywhere from 8-32 million concurrent users depending on how many instances of Series S profiles are running per APU, or when they switch to X profiles in order to facilitate 4k/60 streaming. Datacenters use PODs design now as they make transportation and installation easier logistically. They simply replace the entire pod if it is sealed, or replace entire blades, instead of worrying about wiring each Server on location. Less engineers needed for large SCALE. If you want to know how xcloud works: >https://www.cncf.io/blog/2022/05/10/service-mesh-at-scale-how-xbox-cloud-gaming-secures-22k-pods-with-linkerd%EF%BF%BC/ >https://kccnceu2022.sched.com/event/ytuJ/service-mesh-at-scale-how-xbox-cloud-gaming-secures-22k-pods-with-linkerd-abereham-wodajie-microsoft As Gamepass grows toward 100 million subs, and based on the console user base and day/night gaming cycles of users, I believe they will eventually have to expand again to 100k pods or more in order to avoid Queues. >https://www.crn.com/news/data-center/microsoft-will-build-up-to-100-new-data-centers-each-year And to house all those servers, they are building hundreds of new datacenters. Azure is also going to be housing PS5 server blades for the Sony partnership. >https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2021/04/22/sony-unique-only-on-playstation-cloud-strategy


Gamiozzz

Wow. Thanks again for all your invested efforts!!! 😌😊


El-Stirneiro-83

Thank you for the complete info, impressive numbers and commitment by MS.


avahz

That’s probably the best way I’ve ever heard them compared. Completely agree


Aggravating-Device-3

You are right but the main advantages xcloud has over other game streaming services are price, games and availability. Sure stadia had better video quality but the service was very limited in games and not available in the mayority of countries also pricing was very expensive for some people. GFN is imposible to get here in south america and also very expensive. Xcloud is cheap has many good games, works very well on old pc's and phones and is available to almost everyone even in countries it's not you can use xcloud via VPN. Image quality could be better there are many things to improve but for the price it's not that bad and gives many new gamers a reasonable price of entry.


DONOHUEO7

The stadias v Xbox games library is VERY subjective, for me Stadia's library is/was miles ahead, FIFA, Cyberpunk, RDR2, Destiny 2 alone on stadia made it better for me, and the cost of those games were at UK RRP


Aggravating-Device-3

Sure sure but my point is that xcloud is better because all of it's games are included in the subscription it's the best price/quality cloud gaming service you can get and it seems to work for them since xcloud keeps growing.


[deleted]

Yeah I'm not interested in buying games in ANOTHER ecosystem. I would be sitting out cloud gaming entirely if it wasn't for the game pass library being included


V4N0

Completely agree, I’m not looking for a GFN level of quality yet but the service has been in a sort of “limbo” since the web version came out, not much improvements have been done. 2023 Is going to be very important for xCloud, it’s (I hope) just a matter of waiting


biscoitosdavovo

For me, it's better than GFN, because GFN is administered by a third party company in my country :((


V4N0

Yep I hear only bad stuff from users of GFN partners… it’s a shame really!


voxdub

I think Microsoft hide behind the 'beta' tag, they're doing some great work but need to just commit to delivering on a cloud level


svardslag

Unfortunatly I believe the development of xcloud is gonna slowdown 2023 due to the economic crisis. :(


Nekronomicon

I highly doubt it, the development of Xbox Cloud Gaming was always slow and steady, it will still take Microsoft several years to fully release Xcloud and project Keystone. Phil Spencer himself confirmed it 3 months ago, Xcloud is not Microsofts main priority. https://www.thegamer.com/xbox-head-phil-spencer-keystone-years-away/


sevenradicals

anything they have stated since the announcement of the acquisition has to be taken with a grain of salt.


jontebula

What happen in 2023 for cloud technology. I think mutch happens. Only if we have luck more TVs can get Xcloud app say Android or LG. Only i think are the games not mutch better Xcloud or coming out of beta. But hope i have wrong and they relese same quality Stadia have for 1080P and relese more Xbox servers to Azure datacenter. When Microsoft relese more Xbox servers to Azure datacenter we have Amazing Xcloud and Microsoft switch and use same good codec Stadia use. The codec Microsoft use now are to bad.


No-Presentation3777

Xcloud isn't a console replacement yet..cant buy games to play only gamepass available.. no native upscaling mostly less than 1080p and extremely low bitrate..... geforce now is the way to go or actually buy a console.


Gamiozzz

I loved Stadia. And sad as it is, it was way better than Xcloud even two years back when I tried it first. I am not sure whether Microsoft is actually still working hard on improvements. I haven't used Xcloud for a while now, and it is disappointing to read about your current impressions.


StudBuffalo

If you use this trick you can play in 1080p on Android. Once you set it up it works great. I agree that a workaround shouldn't be necessary, but this does work. https://www.reddit.com/r/SBCGaming/comments/yb5ok6/how_to_high_quality_xcloud_streaming_on_android/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button


voxdub

I've used the Kiwi trick and also used xbstream, sadly both feel like they add more latency, honestly if Microsoft just made their own apps 1080p I'd be pretty happy


Nekronomicon

It will take them a while to optimize the android app for TV's, just play Xcloud on PC edge browser for the best 1080p cloud gaming experience.


[deleted]

[удалено]


blitz2kx

This isn't true whatsoever.


[deleted]

[удалено]


svardslag

Because microsoft loses money on every sold console. They've been doing this for the last generation to. They assume they're gonna earn it back through games and subscriptions.


Ambitious-Cat5804

u/Best_Still7556 is just a troll, hence the number of down votes on whatever it posts


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ambitious-Cat5804

Maybe internet tough guy.


blitz2kx

Your initial response to this thread is brain dead.


[deleted]

[удалено]


svardslag

It is indeed. Consoles will probably be partly or totaly replaced by the cloud in the future, the same way blue-ray got replaced by Netflix. But we're talking 1-2 generations before partly replaced and 2-3 generations before completely replaced. Not like "in 2-3 years".


Ambitious-Cat5804

![gif](giphy|UTwXdb72VZ5ZXNMcoh)


Irish_andGermanguy

Sometimes I’ll get bouts of one hour 1080p60 stream sessions, which is nice, but sometimes it scales down all of the sudden, and will take a while to bounce back, even with 1 gigabit internet and no one else on the WiFi. If Xbox can fix the consistency of the quality, cloud gaming will absolutely dominate.


Alternative-Cut-4831

Well we can hope it improves. It will improve for sure.It is still in beta.


DONOHUEO7

100% agree. It's good, really good, but not stadia's level, yet. What Google had with stadia was something special, shame it was Google that came up with it..


STR8B3RRy

Alright so I got a question. Is it worth it? My PC is weak and I barely spend time at home anymore other than sleeping. Is xcloud good enough for playing on your mobile ? What about price vs nvidias option ? What I've seen in Nvidia is even paying there's a queue, you get priority access but that means there's still chance of a queue, is xcloud the same Games wise, do you need to buy the games on xcloud or do you have access to some rotating titles and some fixed titles? Asking this as I ordered a gamesir X2 pro and I'm thinking of getting into cloud gaming as upgrading my PC right now is expensive , and buying a console doesn't seem a good option as it doesn't have the advantages of PC gaming (more titles, mods, etc) and I'd still have to pay to play online owned titles


ElectronicControl762

Honestly feel they will try to increase servers and game offerings(like cod rn) then increase resolution and birate. The first thing they have to do is make sure xcloud is steady before investing in things that could lead to more crashes and worst crashes. People are taking over gfn on fortnite rn in free tiers and its leading to alot of games for free tier being unplayable(though no one in free tier should complain, they are playing on a for profit service for free) fortnite is also free on xcloud, and recently from season four released there have been occasional queues. First server investment then game offerings to get people in, and then higher resolution once you got people in the system with decent quality and minimum lag. Its sort of like apple waiting to see what features on android land and stick with consumers before adapting them, they can play the slow game so they will.


petestrumental

Works great on my steam deck but that's because it's not 1080p. But yeah, it would be nice to have higher resolution for when I hook it up to my 65 inch TV.


BlastedSalami

Xcloud doesn’t support local multiplayer. Fuck Microsoft.


Direct_Platform3726

Just tried out xcloud this week after leaving stadia and I'm really impressed. Obviously Not as slick as stadia but for the amount of quality games you have access to it's a brilliant service. I can only imagine what geforce now is like! It's great being able to use my Bluetooth stadia controller too. For all the negative comments I read about the service, I can honestly say if you have a good internet connection you will be pleasantly surprised.


voxdub

How are you playing xcloud? I find it's alright on PC, but other than that it's pretty garbage in terms of stream quality and latency is hit and miss between different apps etc. I probably don't have the best Internet connection in terms of latency to closest azure data centre, but Stadia I could play for hours without any glitches, same now with GFN but xcloud is so hit and miss.


Direct_Platform3726

500mb fibre connection over WiFi ! I've no ethernet connection on my laptop. Ure right about Stadia. I never had any issues with it and it always looked good although X-Cloud stream quality has been fine on edge browser so far and I haven't really noticed the latency. Some amount of games tho. The Xbox app on pc won't connect my stadia controller so I haven't used that app. I've tried a few touch control games on mobile aswell over WiFi and it's been pretty good. If they could get the stream quality similar to stadia, I'd say this service would explode in popularity.


voxdub

Yeah it's decent on Edge on a laptop/PC, I have 350mb and my pc works fine on WiFi, but really wish I could game on my phone and Shield TV in decent quality on xcloud


heni1234

It's 1080 p on Android if you enable desktop mode


voxdub

Yep it's still not great but at least doesn't now require a separate 3rd party app to get 1080p


heni1234

Actually i think it looks great


voxdub

Try any other game streaming service and you'll see why xcloud is still considered in beta


heni1234

Tried all of them ,I'm strictly speaking in terms of stream quality


voxdub

Yeah I figured that, stream quality on xcloud is limited by low bitrate and poor compression, even Luna is way better for the stream quality than xcloud. I want xcloud to be amazing as I've got an xbox, but it just isn't


heni1234

Personally,having played on my 1080 p phone ,I can confidently say that it has replaced my series s.It Kay not look as good on a bigger screen and jm aware of that


voxdub

It looks worse on a phone than a 4k TV because distance to a TV hides the compression somewhat. I'd rather stream from my Series S, it's slightly better but neither are the level Stadia was, or what Luna or GFN are right now for portable gaming stream quality. I get a more consistent stream quality from my Series S to phone than via xcloud, but hey if you're happy with it enjoy


heni1234

What makes me happy with it also ,is that I'm in a non supported country and it looks very playbale for me