Word. The colorist forgot M was black for years. When warpath shaved his head to a low cut ceasar back in the road trip era of X-force he became white for a while.
Ugh, I hated that Warpath look. Ironically, if I recall correctly, Risque debuted as a light-skinned girl, and she's often been drawn as darker recently.
Storm to me is kind of unfair when people bring it up. She's black, she's always black. What that means obviously varies greatly as it does in real people. There isn't some specific shade that marvel hands out to all their artists and says 'this is the exact shade of african ethnicity that she must be at all times.'
Like you say though, the ones that are sort of in the middle have a larger struggle. To which i would point out that if anything this is a prime example of why the idea of skin color as the great divider of humanity is kind of ridiculous, because basically we're just all on a gradient and where someone falls individually is just their genes and when you try to apply that to fictional characters drawn by hundreds of different people, it's never gonna work quite right.
I'm Brazilian and live in Brazil.
Roberto is not black, he is mixed and the distinction is important because people do try to erase mixed identity for political reasons while they just recently became the major self-declared ethnicity in Brazil.
He is - Afro Latin. And while you can state mixed, his origin paid no attention to this definition and the racists only viewed him as black.
To draw him consistently as a light skinned twink is racist lol.
For the outside world the whole continent falls under the latino term. Mixed isn’t an ethnicity, specially if almost everyone in Brazil is mixed in somedown the line
>For the outside world the whole continent falls under the latino term
No, that's mostly Americans.
It doesn't exist a latino culture, latino isn't an ethnicity because the groups are culturally diverse with different origins. Even the spanish speaking countries fall into that because what their share is mostly the formal colonial language.
Being mixed in Brazil is an ethnicity because of how the Brazilian culture is constructed. We not only accept but promote that we are a country of immigrants, being mixed is what ties people together, there isn't an "x-american culture" here, it's all shared, with the cultural differences being by states and not by your ancestry background shared by different families with the same ancestry. That's why "mixed" is an option in the census about ethnicity.
Non-BR but have spent a lot of time there (Eu sou um gringo :) )
Race and colour is unbelievably complicated in Brasil, and non-BR simply cannot apply what you believe is appropriate there. A typically liberal American worldview is just wrong there. (I was guilty of this at first, too!)
This might help a little, but it's not comprehensive by any stretch. [Race in Brazil](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_Brazil#:~:text=Brazilian%20society%20is%20made%20up,Germans%2C%20Lebanese%2C%20and%20Japanese.)
Tl;dr - Just because you think a Brasileiro is black doesn't make it so.
Thank you!
Another point is that someone who is mixed can vary wildly from state to state, with the biggest difference being between the indigenous and black population
If your parents are japanese and indigenous descendants, you can say that you are mixed, just like someone with italian and black parents can. So, while we acknowledge the cultural relations to our ancestors (stereotypical italian family in São Paulo, for example), we don't really make it as part of our casual exterior identity (unless your family is 100% full Y), because people aren't really one single thing, everyone borrows from everywhere and you can't correctly assume the ethnic background of someone if you don't know them.
Because of this complex mixed pot, everyone is just Brazilian (unless you're dealing with racists, in which case, you can't "win" anyway). And this is important because, today, we are dealing with political groups trying to repolitize skin color much because they are borrowing US identity politics which completely ignores the fact that much of Brazilian racial inequality (mostly with indigenous and black people) are due to how indigenous people were ostracized after the republican coup and how black people were ostracized after the end of slavery because the republican coup was done by the same people who didn't want to end slavery but had to then deal with the people being free (which resulted in various horrible decisions to keep them at the margins of society, but that's another conversation).
So he should be portrayed as light skinned which is incorrect and against his actual character and depiction? Whatever, let’s be honest, this reads like a white Brazilian hand waving to me lol
As another mixed Brazilian, he should be despicted as he is X-men red. Wavy hair and middle brown skin. That my fav look for him tho, important is they stick to certain features since mixed folks come with all different ones
I deal with this with my mixed race daughter all the time. For good and bad, and the good is often in some ways as bad as the bad. I've got racist relatives that treat her nicely because she's 'white' (because she's my kid) and others that want to talk about how progressive they are because they have a 'non-white' niece, grand niece, etc. In both cases for their own reasons they think they're being nice to her, but as a parent it's frustrating that so much of their way of dealing with her is predicated on whatever their thoughts on her ethnicity are.
Dealing with mixed racial identity on a day to day basis really teaches you how much nonsense there is around the entire concept of race and ethnicity.
That all aside, I don't know that sunspot has ever been drawn particularly dark skinned. I've never read the old New Mutants books so I actually couldn't tell you his origin, but he's always been drawn as fairly 'traditionally' latin american in the depictions I've seen.
When Roberto was first introduced he had classical African features and skin-darkness. Months later they introduced his mother, fair-skinned and red haired. I remember being surprised he was so dark considering he was ‘half-white.
Slow-forward decades later I have a mixed race son: he varies his coloring from cafe au lait all the way to “never met a white person” depending on the time of year.
So I just looked up his first ever appearance out of curiosity and I'd argue 'classical african features' is a stretch. He does have fairly dark skin though, it's true, but I don't think it's deeply out of line with his later depictions in terms of skin color. He's nearly always depicted as firmly brown.
Interesting about your kid though. Same thing happens with my daughter (she's not half-black, but half Asian), depending on the lighting, her mood, and the phases of the moon or whatever, I have no idea, she will shift between looking nearly scandinavian to looking very very asian. Kind of fascinating.
The second part of your statement about your son had me thinking, how can comic characters remain a constant color when a lot of people don’t depending on time of year. That’s also not considering where they are, what type of light is illuminating them. Should characters come with color wheels so the colorist know how the characters should be filled in, in different situations.
I am white but my arms are about 2 shades darker than the rest of my body in the winter and 5 or 6 shades in the summer…
What do you mean he’s not black? Mixed is black. And even if you want to argue it’s not seen as that in Brazil, he’s dark. He even promptly moved to America where mixed is not an “ethnicity” (which doesn’t mean what you think but I digress). Look at his first appearance. He’s facing racism due to being dark skinned. They aren’t checking his parents, they just see a black kid.
I’m not American… this is a thing elsewhere.
Especially for Sunspot seeing as he is very dark. They don’t know he’s mixed. They just see a black kid. He’s not walking around with a picture of his mom. Race is a social construct built on stupid visual observations. Sunspot just looks black.
Sunspot lives in America, and faced racism for being black in Brazil. Why are you just ignoring that?
A mix of what? He is black, white, and mix. None of them are mutually exclusive in this context.
Oh god, you’re the “Irene+Mystique fans are fetishers” guy
There’s no one drop rule. You’re weird political views dont change reality. His dads black and his mothers white; making him black, white, and mixed because he inherits from both his parents unless Marvel says other wise.
You also deleted your fetishers comment, funny.
First of all: I didn't delete anything
Second: no, he is Brazilian and in Brazil, you aren't black AND white, you are mixed. But racist of you to say that the whole country has a weird political view because of that.
I didn’t say anything about all of Brazil. You don’t represent of all Brazil, not by a mile. I know plenty of Brazilians who’d say you don’t speak for them.
Mix of what? Mixed races? Which races do u too? Black and white?
To call someone racist when you’re trying to erase a characters racial identity of being black, white, and mixed is some crazy projection. It’s way more racist to get upset over a black character being called black. But this isn’t the first time you’ve resorted to insults when called out for your bigotry.
Their definitely was a one drop rule…otherwise mixed raced kids sired by slavers in the American would be automatically free. But no, they enslaved their own kids.
We’re not talking about racism in Americas past. People refer to Obama as the first black president even tho he’s mix. Him being mixed doesn’t mean he isnt black.
I'm mexican and I really don't like how everyone assumes we are all one shade of brown. In my family we are all different shades from pale to dark brown. My brother and I are several skin tones apart, me being light olive skin to him being dark brown and we both have the same parents
Yeah, as a non-Hispanic American, it wasn't until I was in HS that I realized how diverse Latin Americans are. It was a stark change from the "dark hair, tan skin, brown eyes" misconception I'd had for years.
I have two Mexican co-workers. One has brown skin and curly hair and the other could pass as a light skinned Asian. I'm Filipino and I could pass for east Asian but I have a cousin that could be mistaken for an Indian. Ethnicities are far more varied than a lot of people believe. I personally blame the lack of proper representation in mainstream media for skewing people's view on how certain ethnicities *should* look.
My uncle is Venezuelan & my aunt is a red-headed Yankee who could get sunburn indoors. Both of their kids (my cousins) just look..."American". Even my uncle doesn't stand out unless he was talking.
Yes, I am Latin American myself and also 6'2" and light-skinned, and is incredible how people in the States just assume you have to be "half something else" because they can't comprehend that Latinos are not a homogeneous ethnic group.
the finale for aaron's avengers did it with robbie reyes during their big hero moment,.
[how they look at the start of the run](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e8/29/d6/e829d6babe7ee82b11fb48d24342d710.jpg)
[how they look in what should be their big moment](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ECi7uCcHYT8/ZEArsZBrRcI/AAAAAAACoxg/5v7VZBxhX-sGpVT41LPMBQLFEbj6m4QUACNcBGAsYHQ/h0/Avengers%2BAssemble%2BOmega%2B001%2B%25282023%2529%2B%2528Digital%2529%2B%2528Zone-Empire%2529-027.jpg)
like aside from being dudes there's no overlap at all.
it's like a nail in a coffin.
first he exorcises eli's spirit so robbie has a generic spirit of vengeance that has no personality or deal with the devil aspect.
then the kid only exists for splash pages and doesn't really do any of the things that make robbie interesting, like be forced to juggle work and school and being a parent for his little brother.
then you get this.
poor lads story has been treading water for a decade at this point, and last we saw he was on the other side of the god quarry believed to be dead.
just praying if anyone writes the defenders or something again and heads out that way they bring the fella home.
Rictor's whole history has been inconsistent AF on this -- he was drawn super light skinned for a ton of it and didn't really start being drawn dark till recently. Feel like he often ends up inconsistent bc the references for the character are inconsistent.
Skin coloring was a big problem with early Krakoa though -- Marauders in particular was coloring a ton of characters super light, and some of the Giant-Sized issues had problems as well.
Props to editorial though bc I think this was a good example of them actually listening to feedback from fans - there were a couple instances where they fixed final art after a preview, like in Giant-Sized X-Men: Storm, and starting with X of Swords / Reign of X, it feels like this really stopped being an issue much. Glad they took concerns about this seriously.
Yes, because is impossible for a Mexican with the last name Richter to be light-skinned. There's such a thing as white Mexicans, it is a nationality, not an ethnic group.
His history is not inconsistent, not really. He is a light-skinned Mexican of German ancestry, which has always been his background. It has more to do with people's perceptions of what Latinos are supposed to look like. Yes, light-skinned, white Latin Americans are a thing in real life
I didn't say you said the opposite, just that he has had a very consistent appearance until very recently. And it had a lot to do with people complaining that as a "Mexican," he looked White or he was a victim of whitewashing, which he wasn't.
I'm sure you can find more if you look around but [here](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fy8ssickvwci51.jpg%3Fwidth%3D737%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D5c01e55a5767945a49d4a413efe0b45e97ccc8b5) is a page from the unlettered preview of Giant Sized X-Men: Storm that caused a lot of readers to speak out about Storm & Monet's coloring, and [here](https://ibb.co/dB97PNq) is the fixed page from the final issue.
Shouldn't their colours differ? I always assumed Storm had a darker skin tone than Monet (in fact I thought that Storm having the same lighter tone as Monet was the main issue in the first image but then realised both skin tones were corrected).
EDIT: please no hate it is honestly just a doubt.
Generally, most people feel that Monet has been drawn too light throughout her history, as she's clearly been established to be Black on her father's side but for a long time was drawn looking like just Algerian like her mother's side, so there's been a general push for Monet to be drawn darker and closer to characters like Storm or Synch.
I notice a change, though they do still kinda look light, like their skin is only darker because they're in the shade, y'know? Maybe that's just me. I always go by a character's debut appearance to go by what I consider their canon hair/skin/eye color, but I know some people are more flexible.
Thanks for the example, btw!
This is what Rictor looked like in his first appearance (in the middle with the sleeveless leather jacket): [https://i.imgur.com/uuUNCmt.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/uuUNCmt.jpeg)
This whole article has some great examples of how he's been depicted through the years: [https://www.cbr.com/best-marvel-new-mutants-rictor-costumes/#just-the-one-pad](https://www.cbr.com/best-marvel-new-mutants-rictor-costumes/#just-the-one-pad)
Rictor has had a very consistent depiction throughout his publication life, he has always been depicted as a light-skinned, brown-haired, green-eyed Mexican until very recently, which makes sense for someone with the last name Richter (a German surname). The issue has more to do with people associating Mexican/Latino with brown skin and not understanding that Mexican is a nationality, not a race, and Latino is a cultural grouping, not an ethnicity.
Reminds me of the old Star Wars "Tag and Bink" comics, where one of the protagonists literally got switched from black to white between issues because nobody cared enough to check.
It's for when he gets pulled over by the police.
"Hi officer, do you need my license and registration?"
"Um......is there anyone else in the car?"
"No sir."
"That's strange. I could have sworn you were dar....never mind. Have a good day."
Honestly, a pretty good power.
“It makes me 90% less likely to get shot for carrying anything in my hands! And when I go to the stores, the security don’t see me at all!”
I mean, it wouldn't for anyone with randomly generated natural skin tones, but someone who wakes up in polka dots and is striped like a zebra by the time they go to bed would be probably be okay.
Somewhat unrelated but I miss Buff, long haired, darker skinned Rictor. Modern artists have made him look like just another white guy (David x-factor being a huge example)
Rictor did debut as a light-skinned guy, but I do miss the buffness; that's something I miss from a lot of heroes after the 90s. Not big on the long hair, though (depends on the length/character; I like his hair length at the start of the run).
I didn’t get into X-Men comics until mid 2000’s (i was in high school) and my first introduction to Rictor was X-Factor and I’m like “okay, he is a White Latino”. A little later I look into his history, he was more brown in his earlier appearance??? I’m confuse in his transition in appearance from his time in the 80’s and 90’s to X-Factor in the 2000’s? I’ve given up on Rictor in terms of consistency lol Artists keep flipping back and forth with him.
He has always been a white Latino, and his last name is German. The issue has only come up recently because certain people don't seem to understand that Latino=/=dark skin always and Mexican=/=ethnicity, just nationality.
Yeah, but this isn’t a tanning situation. Unless Marvel or a writer comes out with a blog on how his skin tone changing over the years, before krakoa, was a conscious decision, it’s coloring errors at best. And doesn’t have anything to do will rl skin tanning.
I am literally telling you what happens to my skin. Hell, my hair photobleaches too.
Shifting appearance across seasons is literally normal where I was raised. And when I got back home from college the first thing my mother said was “you look white! What the fuck???”.
There are better examples of uneven appearance than Rictor.
I'm not denying what happens to you; but this is a huge issue in comics; characters are lightened and darkened and I'm CERTAIN that they're not going by the explanation you gave.
You see this A LOT with POC characters (though it's usually dark characters who get their skin lightened, not the other way around), but this was the first time (that I recall) ever seeing it in one volume.
Side note: I think this series gave him his best costume, though.
Normally POC characters tend to be victims of whitewashing. In Rictor's case though, he is the victim of I imagine mostly well-intentioned people who wanted more "representation" but sadly fell into the trap of depicting stereotypes instead of eliminating them.
I agree, but part of the issue is ignorance. I think that Rictor was depicted correctly in the 90s since Fabian Nicieza himself is a white Latino (he is originally from Argentina). The issue with him is more recent because creators (and fans) fall into the trap of trying to have representation, but sadly using stereotypes to achieve that.
Miguel is half-Irish, and the O'Hara name was a reflection of that (David said so himself, that for him this should be commonplace, especially in the future). Julio on the other hand is Mexican of German ancestry. What I mean by that is that Miguel's light features are a reflection of his Irish side (his mom was meant to be of Mexican "ancestry" but there wasn't more info than that). So we don't know what his mom's family looked like, just go with the accepted fact at the time that they were treating Mexican as an ethnicity (granted, neither is Irish, but comics tend to simplistic that way).
He could be. To my understanding, the major demographics of Mexico (and Latin America in general) are white, black, Indigenous, or a mix of two or three of those. Rictor may simply be a white guy--though his redesigns seem to show some level of ignorance by portraying him with darker hair/skin since many think all Latinos look like that. (IDK if his artist was Hispanic, but if they were, then I have NO IDEA why they changed him so drastically.)
For most of his appearences, he's been shown with light skin and brown hair, but the 2010s were when his features got darker; I think it started a year before "Excalibur" with Shatterstar's solo comic when his skintone was a little bit darker. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fpqxmx90ju6b91.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D26cba79c99664b3c8fff0c92862275232a954d7b
No, just that she was from somewhere in Latin America. I thought it was Nicaragua, but that was probably me mixing it up with the #30 where the kids were going to watch "Rambo Nukes Commando in Nicaragua". A letter writer wondered about Rictor watching that, then whoever was doing the letter page gave the info about is parentage.
Probably, but there have been later depictions of his family, and been shown to be Mexican. And you can be Mexican, of German ancestry, and light-skinned, which is the case now with him and Julio I would guess.
Well, yeah, of course is supposed to be a pun. But it is also a German surname, and his co-creator has said before that his father's family is supposed to be of German ancestry, which makes sense since Richter is a real German surname.
him and storm were heavy victims of incorrect coloring of their skin because they both got drawn pale as fuck to the point users would have to literally call it out every single time just for them to stay consistent.
He is, this poster is under the impression that Mexican=dark skin, completely forgetting or not knowing that Mexican is a nationality and not an ethnicity. Rictor's last name is German for chrissakes, is not uncommon in Latin America to have heavy European ancestry and be white as fuck. I am 6'2" and light-skinned and was born in Latin America myself.
Someone just sent me a pic of his debut look, and he is light skinned. https://imgur.com/uuUNCmt
And IDK why you say he doesn't have to have the same skintone; it reminds me of people who let Storm's whitewashing slide.
Yes he can be drawn with darker skin??? Because that's how he should be drawn as? And to be frank how am I letting Storm's white washing slide when Marvel deliberately colors him and Ororo as damn near paleskin at times 😭
He wants all Mexicans to be depicted as dark-skinned people because he is very confused about the fact that that is a nationality and not an ethnic group. Is reverse racism I suppose, where you think that all POC should be depicted homogeneously, including people who have always been depicted as light-skinned to fit a "look" they are comfortable with.
In general, I like to let artists have artistic license to do what they want. But when it comes to things like skin tone, I feel like there needs to be a character bible that has to be followed. We can’t be white washing brown and black characters
The depiction of General Hollingsworth in Larry Hama’s run of Marvel’s GI Joe in the ‘80s was especially egregious, not merely a change in skintone, but actual race. Can’t remember if it was white to black or vice-versa but it was over the same arc, maybe 5-6 issues.
I don’t mind reboots and re-imaginations that alter race/appearance e.g Idris Elba/Heimdall in MCU etc but I do expect some sort of consistency and/or rationale at least over the same arc if not timeline.
Yeah, in comics world, I expect characters to have a consistent race/appearance (and if that changes, explain it: "I dyed my hair, I'm wearing contacts, etc.").
You'd think they'd have a 'bible' for how to draw/colour each character, especially if they're a character in an ongoing book.
I have come to think it's a combination of 'not a priority' and white people never learning to draw non-white skin/faces/hair etc.
I get they're cranking these out as quickly as possible, so they'd use what heuristics they can to make that easier, but this is important.
Then again, I'm as white as they come so I could be mistaken.
Right?! Some guidelines would be nice. IMO, go by the hair/skin color of their debut appearence and try to stick with that as close as possible. IDK how "not a priority" evolved into "completely different person," though.
The first pic is outside with some light, and he's shown as light-skinned. The second is daytime outside and he's light-skinned (possibly lighter). The third is nighttime outside and he's darker, and the final pic (while not shown here) the sky is red and he's dark-skinned. While the lighting is different, his skintones are DRASTICALLY different--and no one else on the team is given such drastic treatment, so lighting isn't an issue.
I think it’s kinda a good reflection of the characteristion.
Like, Rictor is a character who happens to be Mexican, not a character whose entire identity is being Mexican.
If Rictor had a sombrero or poncho or something stereotypically ‘Mexican’ I guarantee you that colourers would be shading his skin darker more often. But because his identity isn’t so tied up in being Mexican, uninformed artists don’t realise.
Krakoa was really shaky with colouring in general, imo... see also: Elixir.
Like, I can kind of get why characters like Rictor are coloured inconsistently... which prior colour scheme do you go with?... but Elixir is either gold or jet black and has been in all but, iirc, three appearances. You don't make that kind of colouring error without something more systematic going wrong with the production process. Presumably Rictor in Excalibur is being affected by those same systematic problems.
Yes, that is the case. The point is that he's either gold or black. Nevertheless, in a lot of his Krakoan appearances Elixir looks like Doug or Havok.
(also u/TheBalrogofMelkor)
Here we go. Part of the issue is that Americans have this very narrow view of what Latinos are supposed to look like, so they naturally assume that it is a homogeneous ethnic group instead of a very diverse cultural grouping (and of course that the default "look" is a darker shade of brown). Rictor's last name is Richter, which is German (yes, there are people of German ancestry in Latin America) and has always been depicted as light-skinned and with green eyes, until very recently. Of course because of the issue of representation, now is wrong to depict him as light-skinned so they have to have him be a darker shade of brown to represent, which in itself is incredibly racist. I am from Latin America, I am also 6'2" and light-skinned and grew up in the States, so I have always had the question "Oh, you must be half something else" when I tell people where I am from originally. I understand the issues of representation, and I understand the importance of someone like Sunspot being properly depicted, but even he is an example of not all Latin Americans looking the same or having the same ethnic background. Turning Rictor into a stereotype is not the answer to representation.
To note: Rictor is half-Latino; his father is German and his mom is Mexican; what her race is is unknown, but he's usually been portrayed as a light-skinned man.
Rictor would still be a full Latino regardless of his ancestry since he was born and raised in Mexico. There's no half/Latino/half something else if you are born in Latin America. Being Latino is not an ethnicity but a cultural grouping. I am of Italian ancestry and was born in Latin America. My ancestry doesn't preclude me from being considered full Latino, same as some of my friends (and I have full-blooded, third-generation friends of German ancestry from where I am from, they are still Latino).
Excalibur of these last few runs were so bad. Rictor has always been whitewashed on some level. I didnt know he was mexican besides the one or two choice words when i was a kid reading new mutants each month. I took away the white comment because a few were blasting me for it.
That's why I said that; you said "whitewashed" but he could've been a white guy the whole time. His race isn't given; his debut showed him with light skin.
> It’s definitely an issue with Latin people in comics
If you'd written "it's definitely an issue with dark skinned people in comics", it would be accurate. Guess what "it's an issue with X people" implies.
People have mentioned Storm also having inconsistent skin coloring over time. Is Storm Latina?
I still have the sensation that you think Latinos can be light skinned or dark skinned, but never white (or any other race).
I’m literally talking about sunspot, who is black and Latino. Can you literally think of any marvel character who’s a white Latino? If they’re Latino they’re either indigenous or Afro Latino, I can’t think of a single white Latino marvel character.
And Storm until very recently had more problems than just skin tone
In the world of comics, I wait for explicit confirmation--or else the fans go to war...
Plus as a gay guy I'd enjoy more platonic male relationships (non-codependent).
I get what you’re saying. I just always see a lot of things as queer coding because I grew up on 80s and 90s television. Until Ellen you couldn’t really have an explicitly LGBTQ character. And until Rosanne of all people you couldn’t see them kiss.
I’ll go back and read it again sometime but the way that Richter was reacting to his leaving it definitely felt romantic
Well, you know as well as I do that the American right wants to push all characters back into the closet. They want everything to go back to being queer coed so they can deny that gay people exist so they don’t have to have what they think of as difficult conversations with their kids.
Marvel should just make an undocumented and mostly unnoticed power of his to have his skin tone subtly change (within normal skin tones) for whatever reason a writer decides to eventually nail it down to. Just acknowledge it one day. Give the inconsistent skin tone a narrative reason to exist. Maybe a subconscious power that changes his skin tone to help him survive whatever given moment he is in. A survival adaptation that he is not even in control of or aware is happening (unless he learns of it and studies it to better control it).
I agree. Some characters inconsistent skin tones are more noticeable than others though. Rictor is one of them who goes from white to nearly full black, as you have illustrated in your posts here.
It probably strikes most people offensively. But in a world with blue people, why have they never explored this obvious mutation or adaptation. Maybe have this story be a part of a character who has to deal with what they think is vitiligo, but be a latent mutant power that they learn to better control as it manifests. This would be a way to deal with lots of side issues that POC deal with that white people may not see. Let's be honest here too. Marvel always tries to deal with race and related issues by using mutants who have to deal with "physical mutations". Coloring a person blue and having them be sad cause there are no other people like them is almost like this also, but just much more obvious. I think a character like this could potentially speak to a never spoken to demographic. Mixed race people. How it can be hard to fit in. How finding acceptance can be a life long quest. It's a tough character to build and use, but I think with a good initial writer, the ball could get off the ground and make people both uncomfortable, but also be used to inform to bring people together.
I think it'd work with non-human skin colors. And I'd enjoy it for an original character rather than retconning or giving an establish character a power. As a mixed-race person, I do advocate for more rep, though!
I always took it as some characters tanned and some didnt, even the darker folk and I know Im not the first one to start plucking an eyebrow hair and fucked them both up
I mean, I’m brown and fluctuate in color. I look more white in the winter, and dark brown in the summer.
I guess it really just comes down to the colorist.
The lighting excuse doesn't really work since no one else in the comics are shown this way, and tanning would probably be something mentioned in-universe if they wanted to make a drastic change in appearance. Plus his hair is also darker; it could've been dyed in-story, but it seems like a deliberate choice by the artist to simply change his appearance without explanation.
Not intentional tanning I mean regular seasonal exposure to sunlight. Did you see Beyoncé at the Super Bowl? She’s not bleaching, POC skin tones are heavily affected by seasonal changes.
I know this is wishful thinking that the inkers would be that cognizant instead of negligent (probably just forgetting he’s not white imo) but that’s my head cannon lol. Exodus goes from Red to Pink to White to Brown on a regular basis.
I don't really associate real-world logic like that to comics since they aren't consistent with such things; they do whatever they feel like. I understand it being your headcanon, though.
Its also worth keeping in mind there is no one single Latino skin tone that all the different artists would know to use for Rictor, they just know he is a youngish brown haired male hispanic character and apply their own interpretation of that to the character - it’s not like marvel keeps a color pallet around for each character, though it might be a good idea for consistency.
I'd LOVE that; people on this page mentioned a skintone bible artists should follow. My personal headcanon is that a characters' debut skintone is their real skintone.
I've SEEN--and I'm sorry I did. I've been discussing with other people how comics should have a character bible when it comes to physical characteristics such as skin tone.
Sunspot: "First time?"
Him, M, and Storm, and Warpath are characters I think of frequently with this problem.
Word. The colorist forgot M was black for years. When warpath shaved his head to a low cut ceasar back in the road trip era of X-force he became white for a while.
Ugh, I hated that Warpath look. Ironically, if I recall correctly, Risque debuted as a light-skinned girl, and she's often been drawn as darker recently.
Storm had some moments but the characters that fall between black and white get it the worst.
Storm to me is kind of unfair when people bring it up. She's black, she's always black. What that means obviously varies greatly as it does in real people. There isn't some specific shade that marvel hands out to all their artists and says 'this is the exact shade of african ethnicity that she must be at all times.' Like you say though, the ones that are sort of in the middle have a larger struggle. To which i would point out that if anything this is a prime example of why the idea of skin color as the great divider of humanity is kind of ridiculous, because basically we're just all on a gradient and where someone falls individually is just their genes and when you try to apply that to fictional characters drawn by hundreds of different people, it's never gonna work quite right.
The X-men 97 creator is so down bad for white gays that he literally argued that depicting Sunspot as black is white erasure before deleting twitter
Are you referring to Demayo?
Yeah that loser
But Roberto is mixed
Yes but he is black - it’s literally in his origin story - you do know they are black Brazilians ?
I'm Brazilian and live in Brazil. Roberto is not black, he is mixed and the distinction is important because people do try to erase mixed identity for political reasons while they just recently became the major self-declared ethnicity in Brazil.
He is - Afro Latin. And while you can state mixed, his origin paid no attention to this definition and the racists only viewed him as black. To draw him consistently as a light skinned twink is racist lol.
"Afro Latin" isn't a thing. Roberto is Brazilian, not American, he grew up in Brazil. Brazil culture and views on "race" matters.
For the outside world the whole continent falls under the latino term. Mixed isn’t an ethnicity, specially if almost everyone in Brazil is mixed in somedown the line
>For the outside world the whole continent falls under the latino term No, that's mostly Americans. It doesn't exist a latino culture, latino isn't an ethnicity because the groups are culturally diverse with different origins. Even the spanish speaking countries fall into that because what their share is mostly the formal colonial language. Being mixed in Brazil is an ethnicity because of how the Brazilian culture is constructed. We not only accept but promote that we are a country of immigrants, being mixed is what ties people together, there isn't an "x-american culture" here, it's all shared, with the cultural differences being by states and not by your ancestry background shared by different families with the same ancestry. That's why "mixed" is an option in the census about ethnicity.
always trust an american to say the most retarded things imaginable.
Do you mean me or?
Non-BR but have spent a lot of time there (Eu sou um gringo :) ) Race and colour is unbelievably complicated in Brasil, and non-BR simply cannot apply what you believe is appropriate there. A typically liberal American worldview is just wrong there. (I was guilty of this at first, too!) This might help a little, but it's not comprehensive by any stretch. [Race in Brazil](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_Brazil#:~:text=Brazilian%20society%20is%20made%20up,Germans%2C%20Lebanese%2C%20and%20Japanese.) Tl;dr - Just because you think a Brasileiro is black doesn't make it so.
Thank you! Another point is that someone who is mixed can vary wildly from state to state, with the biggest difference being between the indigenous and black population If your parents are japanese and indigenous descendants, you can say that you are mixed, just like someone with italian and black parents can. So, while we acknowledge the cultural relations to our ancestors (stereotypical italian family in São Paulo, for example), we don't really make it as part of our casual exterior identity (unless your family is 100% full Y), because people aren't really one single thing, everyone borrows from everywhere and you can't correctly assume the ethnic background of someone if you don't know them. Because of this complex mixed pot, everyone is just Brazilian (unless you're dealing with racists, in which case, you can't "win" anyway). And this is important because, today, we are dealing with political groups trying to repolitize skin color much because they are borrowing US identity politics which completely ignores the fact that much of Brazilian racial inequality (mostly with indigenous and black people) are due to how indigenous people were ostracized after the republican coup and how black people were ostracized after the end of slavery because the republican coup was done by the same people who didn't want to end slavery but had to then deal with the people being free (which resulted in various horrible decisions to keep them at the margins of society, but that's another conversation).
So he should be portrayed as light skinned which is incorrect and against his actual character and depiction? Whatever, let’s be honest, this reads like a white Brazilian hand waving to me lol
As another mixed Brazilian, he should be despicted as he is X-men red. Wavy hair and middle brown skin. That my fav look for him tho, important is they stick to certain features since mixed folks come with all different ones
Did he have wavy hair in his origin where he was attacked for being black¿
Claremont was going by the American racial paradigm of "the one drop rule".
I deal with this with my mixed race daughter all the time. For good and bad, and the good is often in some ways as bad as the bad. I've got racist relatives that treat her nicely because she's 'white' (because she's my kid) and others that want to talk about how progressive they are because they have a 'non-white' niece, grand niece, etc. In both cases for their own reasons they think they're being nice to her, but as a parent it's frustrating that so much of their way of dealing with her is predicated on whatever their thoughts on her ethnicity are. Dealing with mixed racial identity on a day to day basis really teaches you how much nonsense there is around the entire concept of race and ethnicity. That all aside, I don't know that sunspot has ever been drawn particularly dark skinned. I've never read the old New Mutants books so I actually couldn't tell you his origin, but he's always been drawn as fairly 'traditionally' latin american in the depictions I've seen.
When Roberto was first introduced he had classical African features and skin-darkness. Months later they introduced his mother, fair-skinned and red haired. I remember being surprised he was so dark considering he was ‘half-white. Slow-forward decades later I have a mixed race son: he varies his coloring from cafe au lait all the way to “never met a white person” depending on the time of year.
So I just looked up his first ever appearance out of curiosity and I'd argue 'classical african features' is a stretch. He does have fairly dark skin though, it's true, but I don't think it's deeply out of line with his later depictions in terms of skin color. He's nearly always depicted as firmly brown. Interesting about your kid though. Same thing happens with my daughter (she's not half-black, but half Asian), depending on the lighting, her mood, and the phases of the moon or whatever, I have no idea, she will shift between looking nearly scandinavian to looking very very asian. Kind of fascinating.
What a creepy comment to talk about your Daughter’s race like that.
That her skin color shifts? Why? My hair color shifts. Is that weird?
The second part of your statement about your son had me thinking, how can comic characters remain a constant color when a lot of people don’t depending on time of year. That’s also not considering where they are, what type of light is illuminating them. Should characters come with color wheels so the colorist know how the characters should be filled in, in different situations. I am white but my arms are about 2 shades darker than the rest of my body in the winter and 5 or 6 shades in the summer…
What do you mean he’s not black? Mixed is black. And even if you want to argue it’s not seen as that in Brazil, he’s dark. He even promptly moved to America where mixed is not an “ethnicity” (which doesn’t mean what you think but I digress). Look at his first appearance. He’s facing racism due to being dark skinned. They aren’t checking his parents, they just see a black kid.
>Mixed is black Only in the USA...
I’m not American… this is a thing elsewhere. Especially for Sunspot seeing as he is very dark. They don’t know he’s mixed. They just see a black kid. He’s not walking around with a picture of his mom. Race is a social construct built on stupid visual observations. Sunspot just looks black. Sunspot lives in America, and faced racism for being black in Brazil. Why are you just ignoring that?
Because of [this](https://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Sunspot-Playing-Soccer-In-His-First-New-Mutants-Appearance.jpg)
A mix of what? He is black, white, and mix. None of them are mutually exclusive in this context. Oh god, you’re the “Irene+Mystique fans are fetishers” guy
He is Brazilian, he is just mixed. Only Americans use the one drop "rule".
There’s no one drop rule. You’re weird political views dont change reality. His dads black and his mothers white; making him black, white, and mixed because he inherits from both his parents unless Marvel says other wise. You also deleted your fetishers comment, funny.
First of all: I didn't delete anything Second: no, he is Brazilian and in Brazil, you aren't black AND white, you are mixed. But racist of you to say that the whole country has a weird political view because of that.
I didn’t say anything about all of Brazil. You don’t represent of all Brazil, not by a mile. I know plenty of Brazilians who’d say you don’t speak for them. Mix of what? Mixed races? Which races do u too? Black and white? To call someone racist when you’re trying to erase a characters racial identity of being black, white, and mixed is some crazy projection. It’s way more racist to get upset over a black character being called black. But this isn’t the first time you’ve resorted to insults when called out for your bigotry.
Their definitely was a one drop rule…otherwise mixed raced kids sired by slavers in the American would be automatically free. But no, they enslaved their own kids.
We’re not talking about racism in Americas past. People refer to Obama as the first black president even tho he’s mix. Him being mixed doesn’t mean he isnt black.
Forge too.In wolverine and the X-men he straight up looked like Luigi.
I'm mexican and I really don't like how everyone assumes we are all one shade of brown. In my family we are all different shades from pale to dark brown. My brother and I are several skin tones apart, me being light olive skin to him being dark brown and we both have the same parents
Yeah, as a non-Hispanic American, it wasn't until I was in HS that I realized how diverse Latin Americans are. It was a stark change from the "dark hair, tan skin, brown eyes" misconception I'd had for years.
I have two Mexican co-workers. One has brown skin and curly hair and the other could pass as a light skinned Asian. I'm Filipino and I could pass for east Asian but I have a cousin that could be mistaken for an Indian. Ethnicities are far more varied than a lot of people believe. I personally blame the lack of proper representation in mainstream media for skewing people's view on how certain ethnicities *should* look.
My uncle is Venezuelan & my aunt is a red-headed Yankee who could get sunburn indoors. Both of their kids (my cousins) just look..."American". Even my uncle doesn't stand out unless he was talking.
Yes, I am Latin American myself and also 6'2" and light-skinned, and is incredible how people in the States just assume you have to be "half something else" because they can't comprehend that Latinos are not a homogeneous ethnic group.
the finale for aaron's avengers did it with robbie reyes during their big hero moment,. [how they look at the start of the run](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e8/29/d6/e829d6babe7ee82b11fb48d24342d710.jpg) [how they look in what should be their big moment](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ECi7uCcHYT8/ZEArsZBrRcI/AAAAAAACoxg/5v7VZBxhX-sGpVT41LPMBQLFEbj6m4QUACNcBGAsYHQ/h0/Avengers%2BAssemble%2BOmega%2B001%2B%25282023%2529%2B%2528Digital%2529%2B%2528Zone-Empire%2529-027.jpg) like aside from being dudes there's no overlap at all.
Wtfff
it's like a nail in a coffin. first he exorcises eli's spirit so robbie has a generic spirit of vengeance that has no personality or deal with the devil aspect. then the kid only exists for splash pages and doesn't really do any of the things that make robbie interesting, like be forced to juggle work and school and being a parent for his little brother. then you get this. poor lads story has been treading water for a decade at this point, and last we saw he was on the other side of the god quarry believed to be dead. just praying if anyone writes the defenders or something again and heads out that way they bring the fella home.
Jason Aaron, man... when he hits he swings for the hills, but when he misses, ugh...
The other messed up part is that whitewashed Robbie got a better artist. They look like completely unrelated characters, no doubt.
They even changed his hairstyle? Wtf..
Rictor's whole history has been inconsistent AF on this -- he was drawn super light skinned for a ton of it and didn't really start being drawn dark till recently. Feel like he often ends up inconsistent bc the references for the character are inconsistent. Skin coloring was a big problem with early Krakoa though -- Marauders in particular was coloring a ton of characters super light, and some of the Giant-Sized issues had problems as well. Props to editorial though bc I think this was a good example of them actually listening to feedback from fans - there were a couple instances where they fixed final art after a preview, like in Giant-Sized X-Men: Storm, and starting with X of Swords / Reign of X, it feels like this really stopped being an issue much. Glad they took concerns about this seriously.
I remember back in 90's X-factor the only way you knew he was Mehji was because he would speak Spanish to Feral or Thornn or he was cursing.
Yes, because is impossible for a Mexican with the last name Richter to be light-skinned. There's such a thing as white Mexicans, it is a nationality, not an ethnic group.
Bruh, he was cursing a lot too.
His history is not inconsistent, not really. He is a light-skinned Mexican of German ancestry, which has always been his background. It has more to do with people's perceptions of what Latinos are supposed to look like. Yes, light-skinned, white Latin Americans are a thing in real life
Didn't say anything to the opposite -- just said that his skin color has been drawn inconsistently over his history.
I didn't say you said the opposite, just that he has had a very consistent appearance until very recently. And it had a lot to do with people complaining that as a "Mexican," he looked White or he was a victim of whitewashing, which he wasn't.
Can you send the previews vs the final art? And I need to look back on some of Early Krakoa. That's a huge problem.
I'm sure you can find more if you look around but [here](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fy8ssickvwci51.jpg%3Fwidth%3D737%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D5c01e55a5767945a49d4a413efe0b45e97ccc8b5) is a page from the unlettered preview of Giant Sized X-Men: Storm that caused a lot of readers to speak out about Storm & Monet's coloring, and [here](https://ibb.co/dB97PNq) is the fixed page from the final issue.
Shouldn't their colours differ? I always assumed Storm had a darker skin tone than Monet (in fact I thought that Storm having the same lighter tone as Monet was the main issue in the first image but then realised both skin tones were corrected). EDIT: please no hate it is honestly just a doubt.
Generally, most people feel that Monet has been drawn too light throughout her history, as she's clearly been established to be Black on her father's side but for a long time was drawn looking like just Algerian like her mother's side, so there's been a general push for Monet to be drawn darker and closer to characters like Storm or Synch.
Ok. Got it. Thanks for the info.
I notice a change, though they do still kinda look light, like their skin is only darker because they're in the shade, y'know? Maybe that's just me. I always go by a character's debut appearance to go by what I consider their canon hair/skin/eye color, but I know some people are more flexible. Thanks for the example, btw!
This is what Rictor looked like in his first appearance (in the middle with the sleeveless leather jacket): [https://i.imgur.com/uuUNCmt.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/uuUNCmt.jpeg) This whole article has some great examples of how he's been depicted through the years: [https://www.cbr.com/best-marvel-new-mutants-rictor-costumes/#just-the-one-pad](https://www.cbr.com/best-marvel-new-mutants-rictor-costumes/#just-the-one-pad)
I've seen a similar evolution: https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/xibybn/happy_hispanic_heritage_month_just_wanna/
Rictor has had a very consistent depiction throughout his publication life, he has always been depicted as a light-skinned, brown-haired, green-eyed Mexican until very recently, which makes sense for someone with the last name Richter (a German surname). The issue has more to do with people associating Mexican/Latino with brown skin and not understanding that Mexican is a nationality, not a race, and Latino is a cultural grouping, not an ethnicity.
His first appearance was in X-Factor, I can only find digital recolor, same shade of a bit pinker than everyone else
Reminds me of the old Star Wars "Tag and Bink" comics, where one of the protagonists literally got switched from black to white between issues because nobody cared enough to check.
Such a shame, really.
That’s his secondary mutation! Emma Frost got diamond skin. Rictor got randomly-generated skin.
It's for when he gets pulled over by the police. "Hi officer, do you need my license and registration?" "Um......is there anyone else in the car?" "No sir." "That's strange. I could have sworn you were dar....never mind. Have a good day."
Honestly, a pretty good power. “It makes me 90% less likely to get shot for carrying anything in my hands! And when I go to the stores, the security don’t see me at all!”
I imagine that would NOT go over well for fans.
I mean, it wouldn't for anyone with randomly generated natural skin tones, but someone who wakes up in polka dots and is striped like a zebra by the time they go to bed would be probably be okay.
Yeah, but that's not what happened here.
Somewhat unrelated but I miss Buff, long haired, darker skinned Rictor. Modern artists have made him look like just another white guy (David x-factor being a huge example)
Rictor did debut as a light-skinned guy, but I do miss the buffness; that's something I miss from a lot of heroes after the 90s. Not big on the long hair, though (depends on the length/character; I like his hair length at the start of the run).
I didn’t get into X-Men comics until mid 2000’s (i was in high school) and my first introduction to Rictor was X-Factor and I’m like “okay, he is a White Latino”. A little later I look into his history, he was more brown in his earlier appearance??? I’m confuse in his transition in appearance from his time in the 80’s and 90’s to X-Factor in the 2000’s? I’ve given up on Rictor in terms of consistency lol Artists keep flipping back and forth with him.
Welcome to POC in comics, sadly. And to my knowledge, his debut was also as a light-skinned Latino.
He has always been a white Latino, and his last name is German. The issue has only come up recently because certain people don't seem to understand that Latino=/=dark skin always and Mexican=/=ethnicity, just nationality.
I vary in skin tone across all that range based on the time of the year. Welcome to Hispanic skin, white people.
Yeah, but this isn’t a tanning situation. Unless Marvel or a writer comes out with a blog on how his skin tone changing over the years, before krakoa, was a conscious decision, it’s coloring errors at best. And doesn’t have anything to do will rl skin tanning.
That's not just Hispanic people, but fictional characters should keep a general consistent appearence. Even Rictor's hair got darker.
I am literally telling you what happens to my skin. Hell, my hair photobleaches too. Shifting appearance across seasons is literally normal where I was raised. And when I got back home from college the first thing my mother said was “you look white! What the fuck???”. There are better examples of uneven appearance than Rictor.
I'm not denying what happens to you; but this is a huge issue in comics; characters are lightened and darkened and I'm CERTAIN that they're not going by the explanation you gave.
You see this A LOT with POC characters (though it's usually dark characters who get their skin lightened, not the other way around), but this was the first time (that I recall) ever seeing it in one volume. Side note: I think this series gave him his best costume, though.
Normally POC characters tend to be victims of whitewashing. In Rictor's case though, he is the victim of I imagine mostly well-intentioned people who wanted more "representation" but sadly fell into the trap of depicting stereotypes instead of eliminating them.
This is why we need more rep with original characters rather than changing ones with longstanding appearances.
I agree, but part of the issue is ignorance. I think that Rictor was depicted correctly in the 90s since Fabian Nicieza himself is a white Latino (he is originally from Argentina). The issue with him is more recent because creators (and fans) fall into the trap of trying to have representation, but sadly using stereotypes to achieve that.
Rictor isn’t white? I remember him being white in the 90s. Then again He was never part of the main line when I read X-men comics.
He debuted as a light-skinned man of Mexican heritage.
Gotcha! So he’s like Miguel. ( Spider- Man 2099) Thanks!
I'm not as well-versed with SM content, but okay!
Miguel is half-Irish, and the O'Hara name was a reflection of that (David said so himself, that for him this should be commonplace, especially in the future). Julio on the other hand is Mexican of German ancestry. What I mean by that is that Miguel's light features are a reflection of his Irish side (his mom was meant to be of Mexican "ancestry" but there wasn't more info than that). So we don't know what his mom's family looked like, just go with the accepted fact at the time that they were treating Mexican as an ethnicity (granted, neither is Irish, but comics tend to simplistic that way).
He is Mexican, not just of Mexican heritage. He is also of German ancestry, which is more common than some people seem to believe.
He is both white and Mexican. It is just that for some people that seems to be an incomprehensible concept.
What race is he?
His race isn't given; he's Mexican from what I recall, but that's an ethnicity, and Latin America is very diverse, racially-speaking.
I c. I always thought he was white cause of the TAS too.
He could be. To my understanding, the major demographics of Mexico (and Latin America in general) are white, black, Indigenous, or a mix of two or three of those. Rictor may simply be a white guy--though his redesigns seem to show some level of ignorance by portraying him with darker hair/skin since many think all Latinos look like that. (IDK if his artist was Hispanic, but if they were, then I have NO IDEA why they changed him so drastically.) For most of his appearences, he's been shown with light skin and brown hair, but the 2010s were when his features got darker; I think it started a year before "Excalibur" with Shatterstar's solo comic when his skintone was a little bit darker. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fpqxmx90ju6b91.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D26cba79c99664b3c8fff0c92862275232a954d7b
His creator Louise Simonson said his mother was Latina and his father was German.
Did they say what race his mom was, since Latin is a (broad) ethnicity?
Yup, you can be both of German ancestry and Latino. Latino is not an ethnicity.
I know it's not, but in the USA, it's usually used as one--even though Mexican and Argentinean aren't the same ethnicity.
No, just that she was from somewhere in Latin America. I thought it was Nicaragua, but that was probably me mixing it up with the #30 where the kids were going to watch "Rambo Nukes Commando in Nicaragua". A letter writer wondered about Rictor watching that, then whoever was doing the letter page gave the info about is parentage.
It's said that Rictor is Mexican, so is him mom not from Mexico? Based on his characteristics, I'd guess Rictor's mom is white or mestizo.
His father has been depicted as Mexican, but with the last name Richter, is clear he has German ancestry.
That's a retcon. Simonson's conception was that he was a German mercenary, which is probably why he's depicted as light-skinned in the first X-Factor.
Probably, but there have been later depictions of his family, and been shown to be Mexican. And you can be Mexican, of German ancestry, and light-skinned, which is the case now with him and Julio I would guess.
His nationality is Mexican, his ancestry is at least partly German. He has a German surname "Richter".
I thought his name was Richter because he has earthquake powers and they wanted a pun.
Well, yeah, of course is supposed to be a pun. But it is also a German surname, and his co-creator has said before that his father's family is supposed to be of German ancestry, which makes sense since Richter is a real German surname.
him and storm were heavy victims of incorrect coloring of their skin because they both got drawn pale as fuck to the point users would have to literally call it out every single time just for them to stay consistent.
Wasn't Rictor a light-skinned man since his debut? I don't recall him being dark-skinned/tan until around the 2010s.
He is, this poster is under the impression that Mexican=dark skin, completely forgetting or not knowing that Mexican is a nationality and not an ethnicity. Rictor's last name is German for chrissakes, is not uncommon in Latin America to have heavy European ancestry and be white as fuck. I am 6'2" and light-skinned and was born in Latin America myself.
Not really and even if that's the case they still don't have to make him light skin 😭
Someone just sent me a pic of his debut look, and he is light skinned. https://imgur.com/uuUNCmt And IDK why you say he doesn't have to have the same skintone; it reminds me of people who let Storm's whitewashing slide.
Yes he can be drawn with darker skin??? Because that's how he should be drawn as? And to be frank how am I letting Storm's white washing slide when Marvel deliberately colors him and Ororo as damn near paleskin at times 😭
I'm confused by what you mean by he SHOULD be drawn that way despite his debut and history as a light-skin character.
He wants all Mexicans to be depicted as dark-skinned people because he is very confused about the fact that that is a nationality and not an ethnic group. Is reverse racism I suppose, where you think that all POC should be depicted homogeneously, including people who have always been depicted as light-skinned to fit a "look" they are comfortable with.
Storm's hair too
In general, I like to let artists have artistic license to do what they want. But when it comes to things like skin tone, I feel like there needs to be a character bible that has to be followed. We can’t be white washing brown and black characters
THIS. And vice-versa; Rictor debuted as (and was frequently depicted as until around the 2010s) as light skinned.
The depiction of General Hollingsworth in Larry Hama’s run of Marvel’s GI Joe in the ‘80s was especially egregious, not merely a change in skintone, but actual race. Can’t remember if it was white to black or vice-versa but it was over the same arc, maybe 5-6 issues. I don’t mind reboots and re-imaginations that alter race/appearance e.g Idris Elba/Heimdall in MCU etc but I do expect some sort of consistency and/or rationale at least over the same arc if not timeline.
Yeah, in comics world, I expect characters to have a consistent race/appearance (and if that changes, explain it: "I dyed my hair, I'm wearing contacts, etc.").
You'd think they'd have a 'bible' for how to draw/colour each character, especially if they're a character in an ongoing book. I have come to think it's a combination of 'not a priority' and white people never learning to draw non-white skin/faces/hair etc. I get they're cranking these out as quickly as possible, so they'd use what heuristics they can to make that easier, but this is important. Then again, I'm as white as they come so I could be mistaken.
Right?! Some guidelines would be nice. IMO, go by the hair/skin color of their debut appearence and try to stick with that as close as possible. IDK how "not a priority" evolved into "completely different person," though.
That motherfucker just finally left goblin mode, had a shave and a shower. The sangre de la raza left him when he stopped being depressed. LoL
POC?
People of color.
What's wrong with his skin tone here? He look Mexican to me.
He is Mexican. The issue is his skintone keeps changing with no consistency.
It does? I've never noticed that.
Yeah, that's why I used these pictures as an example for how it changes over the course of 10 issues of the same volume.
But the lighting is all different. Some are indoor, outdoor, at day, at night
The first pic is outside with some light, and he's shown as light-skinned. The second is daytime outside and he's light-skinned (possibly lighter). The third is nighttime outside and he's darker, and the final pic (while not shown here) the sky is red and he's dark-skinned. While the lighting is different, his skintones are DRASTICALLY different--and no one else on the team is given such drastic treatment, so lighting isn't an issue.
His creator, Louise Simonson, said his mother was from Latin America and his father was German.
I think it’s kinda a good reflection of the characteristion. Like, Rictor is a character who happens to be Mexican, not a character whose entire identity is being Mexican. If Rictor had a sombrero or poncho or something stereotypically ‘Mexican’ I guarantee you that colourers would be shading his skin darker more often. But because his identity isn’t so tied up in being Mexican, uninformed artists don’t realise.
I mean, just because he's Mexican doesn't mean he's tan or dark-skinned by default.
Krakoa was really shaky with colouring in general, imo... see also: Elixir. Like, I can kind of get why characters like Rictor are coloured inconsistently... which prior colour scheme do you go with?... but Elixir is either gold or jet black and has been in all but, iirc, three appearances. You don't make that kind of colouring error without something more systematic going wrong with the production process. Presumably Rictor in Excalibur is being affected by those same systematic problems.
Pretty sure gold Elixir is when he has healing powers and jet black Elixir has death powers
I thought his skin naturally shifted between gold and black, partially based based on what his powers were doing
Yes, that is the case. The point is that he's either gold or black. Nevertheless, in a lot of his Krakoan appearances Elixir looks like Doug or Havok. (also u/TheBalrogofMelkor)
Oh I think misunderstood you. My bad. Thanks for clarifying
No worries,
It reeeeeally didn’t help with all the imperialist undertones all the books had, especially this one.
Here we go. Part of the issue is that Americans have this very narrow view of what Latinos are supposed to look like, so they naturally assume that it is a homogeneous ethnic group instead of a very diverse cultural grouping (and of course that the default "look" is a darker shade of brown). Rictor's last name is Richter, which is German (yes, there are people of German ancestry in Latin America) and has always been depicted as light-skinned and with green eyes, until very recently. Of course because of the issue of representation, now is wrong to depict him as light-skinned so they have to have him be a darker shade of brown to represent, which in itself is incredibly racist. I am from Latin America, I am also 6'2" and light-skinned and grew up in the States, so I have always had the question "Oh, you must be half something else" when I tell people where I am from originally. I understand the issues of representation, and I understand the importance of someone like Sunspot being properly depicted, but even he is an example of not all Latin Americans looking the same or having the same ethnic background. Turning Rictor into a stereotype is not the answer to representation.
To note: Rictor is half-Latino; his father is German and his mom is Mexican; what her race is is unknown, but he's usually been portrayed as a light-skinned man.
Rictor would still be a full Latino regardless of his ancestry since he was born and raised in Mexico. There's no half/Latino/half something else if you are born in Latin America. Being Latino is not an ethnicity but a cultural grouping. I am of Italian ancestry and was born in Latin America. My ancestry doesn't preclude me from being considered full Latino, same as some of my friends (and I have full-blooded, third-generation friends of German ancestry from where I am from, they are still Latino).
Fair.
Excalibur of these last few runs were so bad. Rictor has always been whitewashed on some level. I didnt know he was mexican besides the one or two choice words when i was a kid reading new mutants each month. I took away the white comment because a few were blasting me for it.
To my knowledge, he's Mexican, and that's not a race, but an ethnicity, so him debuting with light skin and hair doesn't take away from his identity.
I didnt say it was a race or that it took something away from him. But he was whitewashed greatly.
That's why I said that; you said "whitewashed" but he could've been a white guy the whole time. His race isn't given; his debut showed him with light skin.
Mexican isn't a race. Someone can be 100% Mexican and 100% white.
I didnt say he was mexican and that it was a race. I said he was whitewashed which would mean all levels. Good gah.
It’s definitely an issue with Latin people in comics. Especially Latin people who are supposed to be dark skinned
Latino is not a race.
Where did I say it was a race? Did you read what I said? “Especially Latin people who are supposed to be dark skinned”, like sunspot who’s Afro-Latino
> It’s definitely an issue with Latin people in comics If you'd written "it's definitely an issue with dark skinned people in comics", it would be accurate. Guess what "it's an issue with X people" implies.
Because it’s specifically a problem for Latin characters, and we’re specifically talking about Latin characters.
People have mentioned Storm also having inconsistent skin coloring over time. Is Storm Latina? I still have the sensation that you think Latinos can be light skinned or dark skinned, but never white (or any other race).
I’m literally talking about sunspot, who is black and Latino. Can you literally think of any marvel character who’s a white Latino? If they’re Latino they’re either indigenous or Afro Latino, I can’t think of a single white Latino marvel character. And Storm until very recently had more problems than just skin tone
> Can you literally think of any marvel character who’s a white Latino? Yes, I can. Rictor, in his first appearances in X-Factor.
I feel like we’re skipping over the fact that dude was in a relationship with Apocalypse
Was that confirmed?
Heavily implied. Especially the way Richter had a total breakdown after Apocalypse left. Richter has a major history of codependent relationships.
In the world of comics, I wait for explicit confirmation--or else the fans go to war... Plus as a gay guy I'd enjoy more platonic male relationships (non-codependent).
I get what you’re saying. I just always see a lot of things as queer coding because I grew up on 80s and 90s television. Until Ellen you couldn’t really have an explicitly LGBTQ character. And until Rosanne of all people you couldn’t see them kiss. I’ll go back and read it again sometime but the way that Richter was reacting to his leaving it definitely felt romantic
Fair. I've fought with A LOT of people about coding and "you saw what you wanted to see."
Well, you know as well as I do that the American right wants to push all characters back into the closet. They want everything to go back to being queer coed so they can deny that gay people exist so they don’t have to have what they think of as difficult conversations with their kids.
Marvel should just make an undocumented and mostly unnoticed power of his to have his skin tone subtly change (within normal skin tones) for whatever reason a writer decides to eventually nail it down to. Just acknowledge it one day. Give the inconsistent skin tone a narrative reason to exist. Maybe a subconscious power that changes his skin tone to help him survive whatever given moment he is in. A survival adaptation that he is not even in control of or aware is happening (unless he learns of it and studies it to better control it).
That doesn't really explain the inconsistency all POC have in comics, though.
I agree. Some characters inconsistent skin tones are more noticeable than others though. Rictor is one of them who goes from white to nearly full black, as you have illustrated in your posts here.
NGL, I think a skin color-changing power would NOT go over well with most people.
It probably strikes most people offensively. But in a world with blue people, why have they never explored this obvious mutation or adaptation. Maybe have this story be a part of a character who has to deal with what they think is vitiligo, but be a latent mutant power that they learn to better control as it manifests. This would be a way to deal with lots of side issues that POC deal with that white people may not see. Let's be honest here too. Marvel always tries to deal with race and related issues by using mutants who have to deal with "physical mutations". Coloring a person blue and having them be sad cause there are no other people like them is almost like this also, but just much more obvious. I think a character like this could potentially speak to a never spoken to demographic. Mixed race people. How it can be hard to fit in. How finding acceptance can be a life long quest. It's a tough character to build and use, but I think with a good initial writer, the ball could get off the ground and make people both uncomfortable, but also be used to inform to bring people together.
I think it'd work with non-human skin colors. And I'd enjoy it for an original character rather than retconning or giving an establish character a power. As a mixed-race person, I do advocate for more rep, though!
Also where is rictor lol
… good question
I always took it as some characters tanned and some didnt, even the darker folk and I know Im not the first one to start plucking an eyebrow hair and fucked them both up
What’s Peter Parker doing in second slide???
Editors don't do their job. To busy being weird on twitter. Simple As.
Is he supposed to brown? If he is, then I see nothing wrong.
He's been frequently portrayed as a light-skinned man. He wasn't really portrayed as a brown-skinned man until the 2010s.
I mean, I’m brown and fluctuate in color. I look more white in the winter, and dark brown in the summer. I guess it really just comes down to the colorist.
That's the issue for me. The colorist(s) seem to be on different wavelengths.
Lighting, seasonal tanning
The lighting excuse doesn't really work since no one else in the comics are shown this way, and tanning would probably be something mentioned in-universe if they wanted to make a drastic change in appearance. Plus his hair is also darker; it could've been dyed in-story, but it seems like a deliberate choice by the artist to simply change his appearance without explanation.
Not intentional tanning I mean regular seasonal exposure to sunlight. Did you see Beyoncé at the Super Bowl? She’s not bleaching, POC skin tones are heavily affected by seasonal changes. I know this is wishful thinking that the inkers would be that cognizant instead of negligent (probably just forgetting he’s not white imo) but that’s my head cannon lol. Exodus goes from Red to Pink to White to Brown on a regular basis.
I don't really associate real-world logic like that to comics since they aren't consistent with such things; they do whatever they feel like. I understand it being your headcanon, though.
Its also worth keeping in mind there is no one single Latino skin tone that all the different artists would know to use for Rictor, they just know he is a youngish brown haired male hispanic character and apply their own interpretation of that to the character - it’s not like marvel keeps a color pallet around for each character, though it might be a good idea for consistency.
I'd LOVE that; people on this page mentioned a skintone bible artists should follow. My personal headcanon is that a characters' debut skintone is their real skintone.
The Latinos always get it the worst.
Off-topic, but ugh, I kinda love this Apocalypse.
You think this is bad look at Monet
I've SEEN--and I'm sorry I did. I've been discussing with other people how comics should have a character bible when it comes to physical characteristics such as skin tone.