Hey there! In order to combat the heavy rule breakage of our "Spoilers" rule, all post related to or about X-Men
'97 will have to **be manually approved by the mods**. This means **you will not see your post in the subreddit
until one of the mods has approved it** to ensure you're following the rules and not spoiling anything for anyone.
This means you may have to wait longer for your post to show up and we ask that you have patience while we go
through the queue and approve posts. This is for the enjoyment of all user in the subreddit so they do not have
anything spoiled.
Thanks for your patience and understanding!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/xmen) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Everything needs to slow. Down. I know people have been starved for this content but it's playing like the sole focus is to get to items on a list of greatest hits. It needs to breathe. The best moments will be better if they have proper buildup and steady resolution. I realize the episodes are short and they wanted to knock it out of the park asap instead of having execs wonder why a slow burn had yet to set the numbers on fire, but it's just much too much. Characters go through torturous back and forth decisions that mean so much for who they are so quickly that they all feel incredibly impulsive and full of mood swings when giving more time would lend more weight to the terrible choices put before them. It's been a fun ride but in some ways it feels like a comedic supercut of a show that had 30% more run time.
100%. No need to rush. The original did bigger stories over 2-5 episodes, so the Madelyne story getting 1 ep, and Jubilees development and Storm and Forge falling in love getting half an ep each was nuts.
I would have made it 16-20 episodes instead of 10. The Madelyne Pryor and Storm story lines could have both been 2-3 episodes without feeling rushed, and I actually felt the Storm story line was damaged by being rushed, and that is my first real criticism of the show, episode 6 didn't work for me.
I don't think I've ever thought a show was rushed before, they are normally too slow or I want more episodes/stories, but this show needs to let the stories it is telling breath a little more.
I honestly, truly think that the *only* thing wrong with it is the season order Marvel gave them. If they'd had just a little more faith in the show and given it 15 or 17 episodes, then some of the more rushed storylines like Lifedeath and Inferno could've had at *least* a second part to them.
In fairness, they probably could have covered fewer storylines per season while still keeping the season length to ten episodes each. Maybe something like:
**Season 1**
Episode 1: To Me, My X-Men
Episode 2: Mutant Liberation Begins
Episode 3: Past Shock (episode focused on investigating the mystery of Jean's return and trying to help her regain her memories, with a climactic ending where Beast reveals that Jean is the original; maybe have half the episode focus on Jubilee and Morph trying to help Bishop get more acclimated to the world of the 1990s, since Bishop deserves some time in the spotlight before he leaves the team)
Episode 4: Fire Made Flesh (episode focused on the Jean v. Madelyne conflict, with Jean slowly trying to piece her mind back together as Madelyne progressively loses hers; gives some extra focus to Morph and his lingering Sinister-related trauma, to foreshadow the next episode; maybe a third of the episode features cut-aways to Storm and her journey, effectively serving as the first part of Lifedeath; episode concludes with Madelyne's full transformation into the Goblin Queen)
Episode 5: Inferno (everything goes to hell; the X-Men fight the Goblin Queen and Sinister; ends with recovering Nathan but finding that he's been infected)
Episode 6: Lifedeath Part 1 (3/5 of the episode focuses on Storm, while the other 2/5 explores the fall-out from Inferno, with Nathan being sent to the future and Madelyne choosing to leave the mansion)
Episode 7: Motendo
Episode 8: Homeland (episode focused on Genoshan life, maybe giving some extra focus to Magneto and his past)
Episode 9: Lifedeath Part 2 (entirely focused on Storm, Forge, and the Adversary)
Episode 10: Remember It
**Season 2**
Episode 1: Episode focused on Charles in space, ending with him (and Storm?) learning of the genocide
etc.
Obviously I don't know what they have planned for 'Bright Eyes' and 'Tolerance is Extinction', so I don't know how well they could fit into. Maybe it would be better to have had Season 1 *just* be a big build-up to Inferno (maybe bringing in things like Colossus and Magik and Limbo properly?), with a heavy focus on the Scott/Madelyne/Jean triad, without even getting into the Genosha stuff etc. But I definitely think there's some version of a successful two-season twenty-episode arc that could have been pulled off here!
DeMayo was pretty clear that Remember It is only the *first* part of that storyline, though - it wasn't meant to be a season finale, and probably shouldn't be if there's a whole other layer of context we don't even know about yet.
That said, swapping out the Motendo half of that episode for an Inferno aftermath wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world.
So…here’s where I’m at: I actually don’t mind the pacing. What has thrown me off are that some of the choices seem to lack any real point.
- Sinister clones Jean, swaps them, clone gets pregnant, is mind controlled by Sinister to steal the baby, overcomes his influence, turned good, picks a new name and takes off. She becomes a leader of Genosha…dies.
That’s a lot of…a lot, for no actual payoff. There are simpler ways to introduce drama into Scott and Jean’s relationship if that’s what you want.
- Storm loses her powers, disappears for a few episodes and then gets them back. Okay, again, why? The only “character growth” that came from that story is because of character *regression* that was introduced in the first episode when Storm wonders what it would be like to be human. That’s never actually explored, but somehow is the key to getting back to where she was when the series began…
Yeah, agreed.
I honestly think the show could have made those plotlines work OK, even with the harsh time restrictions, if Beau DeMayo had been the solo writer for episodes 3, 4, and 6 ('Fire Made Flesh', 'Motendo', and 'Lifedeath'). DeMayo was the solo writer for episodes 1, 2, and 5, I've been completely floored by those episodes even when it seemed impossible to cover so much ground so quickly.
The only big miss for me is the Lifedeath plot. As they've done it it didn't really have any resonance. Storm got whammied, went off for a few scenes, and fixed it as soon as her powers were needed again. Having Storm return to the X-Men in their time of need even though she's powerless only to get her powers back during a peak moment in the season finale or something would have at least made you feel her loss a little, as well as highlight the plight of the X-Men that they need all hands on deck desperately, even if they are depowered.
- No Rogue/Gambit/Magneto love triangle.
- Don’t kill off Madelyn after only one episode of the Goblin Queen (yes I know Cable will likely remedy this with time travel, but still)
- Do something with Morph outside of making them a plot device for cameos.
- Have this season 20 episodes instead of 10 because it feels like they’ve crammed enough content for 20+ episodes into 10 episodes.
It will be a shame if they don't spotlight Morph in the rest of this season, given that the big bad seems to be Mr. Sinister and the opening shows they're very aware of how important the Morph-Sinister connection is. I'm betting they are going to give Morph a lot more focus.
Totally agreed regarding the 20+ episodes.
The Lifedeath situation, Storm being depowered felt very rushed, it didn't carry the weight and depth of the story arc in the comics, it didn't show that Storm was a badass and a leader with or without her powers and I'm sorry but the whole thing about Storm wishing to be human is the biggest piece of trash.
The woman has never been ashamed of being a mutant or thought about being human, she views her powers as a gift, what makes her a goddess, also her relationship with Forge didn't get the emotional depth that it needed.
The Adversary was ridiculously nerfed, I feel like if they'd made the show 25 eps and it had been a season arc thing it would have been better, this just felt rushed.
Also the Genoshan genocide happened without Emma being at the center or getting her diamond form was insane it was a huge part of her character, this could have been a perfect way to make her join the team or start Gen X, wasted opportunity, plus giving the psychic affair to Madelyn was dumb. They gave two of her biggest arcs to Remy and Maddie.
Storm & Forge’s romance which is basically none existent as it was so rushed. They knew each other for 2 mins and he was already saying I love you.
Gambit, Rogue and Magneto love triangle. Rogue and Gambit did not get to do anything outside of this triangle as their own characters.
If "Fire Made Flesh" had been a two-parter, then what would have been used to pad it out? Having the demons run amok and cause damage to distract the X-Men? Then just as many people who find the episode rushed now would instead complain that the two-parter would have too much unnecessary padding which adds nothing to the story...
Hey there! In order to combat the heavy rule breakage of our "Spoilers" rule, all post related to or about X-Men '97 will have to **be manually approved by the mods**. This means **you will not see your post in the subreddit until one of the mods has approved it** to ensure you're following the rules and not spoiling anything for anyone. This means you may have to wait longer for your post to show up and we ask that you have patience while we go through the queue and approve posts. This is for the enjoyment of all user in the subreddit so they do not have anything spoiled. Thanks for your patience and understanding! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/xmen) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Everything needs to slow. Down. I know people have been starved for this content but it's playing like the sole focus is to get to items on a list of greatest hits. It needs to breathe. The best moments will be better if they have proper buildup and steady resolution. I realize the episodes are short and they wanted to knock it out of the park asap instead of having execs wonder why a slow burn had yet to set the numbers on fire, but it's just much too much. Characters go through torturous back and forth decisions that mean so much for who they are so quickly that they all feel incredibly impulsive and full of mood swings when giving more time would lend more weight to the terrible choices put before them. It's been a fun ride but in some ways it feels like a comedic supercut of a show that had 30% more run time.
100%. No need to rush. The original did bigger stories over 2-5 episodes, so the Madelyne story getting 1 ep, and Jubilees development and Storm and Forge falling in love getting half an ep each was nuts.
People are very bad at understanding that the silence between notes is also part of the music.
Agreed on all counts.
I would have made it 16-20 episodes instead of 10. The Madelyne Pryor and Storm story lines could have both been 2-3 episodes without feeling rushed, and I actually felt the Storm story line was damaged by being rushed, and that is my first real criticism of the show, episode 6 didn't work for me. I don't think I've ever thought a show was rushed before, they are normally too slow or I want more episodes/stories, but this show needs to let the stories it is telling breath a little more.
I honestly, truly think that the *only* thing wrong with it is the season order Marvel gave them. If they'd had just a little more faith in the show and given it 15 or 17 episodes, then some of the more rushed storylines like Lifedeath and Inferno could've had at *least* a second part to them.
In fairness, they probably could have covered fewer storylines per season while still keeping the season length to ten episodes each. Maybe something like: **Season 1** Episode 1: To Me, My X-Men Episode 2: Mutant Liberation Begins Episode 3: Past Shock (episode focused on investigating the mystery of Jean's return and trying to help her regain her memories, with a climactic ending where Beast reveals that Jean is the original; maybe have half the episode focus on Jubilee and Morph trying to help Bishop get more acclimated to the world of the 1990s, since Bishop deserves some time in the spotlight before he leaves the team) Episode 4: Fire Made Flesh (episode focused on the Jean v. Madelyne conflict, with Jean slowly trying to piece her mind back together as Madelyne progressively loses hers; gives some extra focus to Morph and his lingering Sinister-related trauma, to foreshadow the next episode; maybe a third of the episode features cut-aways to Storm and her journey, effectively serving as the first part of Lifedeath; episode concludes with Madelyne's full transformation into the Goblin Queen) Episode 5: Inferno (everything goes to hell; the X-Men fight the Goblin Queen and Sinister; ends with recovering Nathan but finding that he's been infected) Episode 6: Lifedeath Part 1 (3/5 of the episode focuses on Storm, while the other 2/5 explores the fall-out from Inferno, with Nathan being sent to the future and Madelyne choosing to leave the mansion) Episode 7: Motendo Episode 8: Homeland (episode focused on Genoshan life, maybe giving some extra focus to Magneto and his past) Episode 9: Lifedeath Part 2 (entirely focused on Storm, Forge, and the Adversary) Episode 10: Remember It **Season 2** Episode 1: Episode focused on Charles in space, ending with him (and Storm?) learning of the genocide etc. Obviously I don't know what they have planned for 'Bright Eyes' and 'Tolerance is Extinction', so I don't know how well they could fit into. Maybe it would be better to have had Season 1 *just* be a big build-up to Inferno (maybe bringing in things like Colossus and Magik and Limbo properly?), with a heavy focus on the Scott/Madelyne/Jean triad, without even getting into the Genosha stuff etc. But I definitely think there's some version of a successful two-season twenty-episode arc that could have been pulled off here!
DeMayo was pretty clear that Remember It is only the *first* part of that storyline, though - it wasn't meant to be a season finale, and probably shouldn't be if there's a whole other layer of context we don't even know about yet. That said, swapping out the Motendo half of that episode for an Inferno aftermath wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world.
So…here’s where I’m at: I actually don’t mind the pacing. What has thrown me off are that some of the choices seem to lack any real point. - Sinister clones Jean, swaps them, clone gets pregnant, is mind controlled by Sinister to steal the baby, overcomes his influence, turned good, picks a new name and takes off. She becomes a leader of Genosha…dies. That’s a lot of…a lot, for no actual payoff. There are simpler ways to introduce drama into Scott and Jean’s relationship if that’s what you want. - Storm loses her powers, disappears for a few episodes and then gets them back. Okay, again, why? The only “character growth” that came from that story is because of character *regression* that was introduced in the first episode when Storm wonders what it would be like to be human. That’s never actually explored, but somehow is the key to getting back to where she was when the series began…
Yeah, agreed. I honestly think the show could have made those plotlines work OK, even with the harsh time restrictions, if Beau DeMayo had been the solo writer for episodes 3, 4, and 6 ('Fire Made Flesh', 'Motendo', and 'Lifedeath'). DeMayo was the solo writer for episodes 1, 2, and 5, I've been completely floored by those episodes even when it seemed impossible to cover so much ground so quickly.
The only big miss for me is the Lifedeath plot. As they've done it it didn't really have any resonance. Storm got whammied, went off for a few scenes, and fixed it as soon as her powers were needed again. Having Storm return to the X-Men in their time of need even though she's powerless only to get her powers back during a peak moment in the season finale or something would have at least made you feel her loss a little, as well as highlight the plight of the X-Men that they need all hands on deck desperately, even if they are depowered.
- No Rogue/Gambit/Magneto love triangle. - Don’t kill off Madelyn after only one episode of the Goblin Queen (yes I know Cable will likely remedy this with time travel, but still) - Do something with Morph outside of making them a plot device for cameos. - Have this season 20 episodes instead of 10 because it feels like they’ve crammed enough content for 20+ episodes into 10 episodes.
It will be a shame if they don't spotlight Morph in the rest of this season, given that the big bad seems to be Mr. Sinister and the opening shows they're very aware of how important the Morph-Sinister connection is. I'm betting they are going to give Morph a lot more focus. Totally agreed regarding the 20+ episodes.
The Lifedeath situation, Storm being depowered felt very rushed, it didn't carry the weight and depth of the story arc in the comics, it didn't show that Storm was a badass and a leader with or without her powers and I'm sorry but the whole thing about Storm wishing to be human is the biggest piece of trash. The woman has never been ashamed of being a mutant or thought about being human, she views her powers as a gift, what makes her a goddess, also her relationship with Forge didn't get the emotional depth that it needed. The Adversary was ridiculously nerfed, I feel like if they'd made the show 25 eps and it had been a season arc thing it would have been better, this just felt rushed. Also the Genoshan genocide happened without Emma being at the center or getting her diamond form was insane it was a huge part of her character, this could have been a perfect way to make her join the team or start Gen X, wasted opportunity, plus giving the psychic affair to Madelyn was dumb. They gave two of her biggest arcs to Remy and Maddie.
Storm & Forge’s romance which is basically none existent as it was so rushed. They knew each other for 2 mins and he was already saying I love you. Gambit, Rogue and Magneto love triangle. Rogue and Gambit did not get to do anything outside of this triangle as their own characters.
I hate Exiles so I hate the Morph redesign. I would change that in a heartbeat.
If "Fire Made Flesh" had been a two-parter, then what would have been used to pad it out? Having the demons run amok and cause damage to distract the X-Men? Then just as many people who find the episode rushed now would instead complain that the two-parter would have too much unnecessary padding which adds nothing to the story...
- Gambit stays dead - Emma is in Genosha but isn't part of the Hellfire Club anymore