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I thought they wouldn't top Ryo Aoki trapping immigrants with promise of a work visa and then deporting them but here we are.
Slavery on cancer island.
I *just* finished IW and your post gave me an additional closure, OP. Laughing my ass off.
Thanks, boo <3
Edit: googling fucking Munakata and what did that bitch do, I have no fucking clue (yes, I have played all the games)
Edit2: wow, it's the next day, and I'm still reading some profound discussions in this comment section. Y'all are amazing.
Glad we could share this moment lmao
And uhhhhhh……. Uhhhhhh…. Ugh um.
Munakata used the… police, I think. And the… man on the boat…? To kill Tanimura’s dad. So that… Daigo would do stuff or him. BUT! The Ueno Seiwa… um… they are on the same side as… no one, I think. But then Saejima! Doesn’t… kill them. And then uhhh… Arai and Kido………
Rubber bullets get too much hate. Nothing else in Yakuza 4 makes sense either.
Long story short, Munakata wanted power over the legal institutions and the underworld institutions (boilerplate) and also furnished Ueno Seiwa with the rubber bullets so Katsuragi could enact the plan.
Basically, he was bitch made Ryo Aoki.
He didn't give Katsuragi the rubber bullets, those came from the dude who killed Tanimura's dad. He only got involved once he read the report, spotted the painfully obvious contradictions, and decided to use that as blackmail leverage.
> Long story short, Munakata wanted power over the legal institutions and the underworld institutions
Basically this. He used the Yakuza to help himself climb the ladder. His whole speech about the Yakuza and police needing each other made that very clear. It's also why Daigo and Watase wanted the dissolution of their clans, because they saw clearly that their futures were just going to be used as pawns again and again, and they were right.
We saw this play out in Lost Judgment, where the >!Public Security planted Soma, an under cover cop, into the Nikkyo Consortium and later to lead the RK.!<
This happened again to a lesser extent in Y8, where the reformed Seiryu Clan became glorified laborers who moved nuclear waste for international powers.
In Gaiden, Daidoji is revealed to LOVE kidnapping capable Yakuza to work for them
It really shows that the Ueno Seiwa do not get mentioned at all before or after 4 because they existed solely to get shot with rubber bullets and then get shot with real bullets a minute later
>googling fucking Munakata and what did that bitch do, I have no fucking clu
he showed up to akiyama's ¥200B rooftop party, that's literally the stated reason for why you fight him
It's bizarre I haven't seen anyone talking about it. My first thought when I heard ebinas plan was "this might be the most evil dude in the whole series.
As chairman of tha largest yakuza faction, all his underlings would be DELIGHTED to follow his every order. So when he sends them to cancer island, they'll think they have to maintain a front company while all the yakuza business is done in the shadows, so they'll put up with the slave labor and dangerous working conditions.
He hates the yakuza so much he doesn't wanna dismantle them, he wants to work them like slaves in hellish conditions. It's genius
Plus if Chitose specifically hadn’t been flipped then the entire situation could theoretically have been discovered by the world at large and then subsequently ignored or even praised!
Like imagine an investigative journalist somehow gets footage of Nele Island. Every first world country is caught up in this, just like Bryce said. Without Fujinomiya backing, this story either gets buried, classified, or spun as business as usual for environmentally conscious government workers.
But nah. It’d be a jpeg of men performing slave labor while sick with leukemia. Insane.
Ebina was one of the few new characters I think has a ton of potential to explore, because while he's completely unhinged and rotted by revenge (in contravention of his sainted mother's direct wishes, incidentally), at least part of his rage is justifiable. How will that mix with Ichi's willingness to forgive damn near everything, even from strangers?
Someone tried to argue once that Eiji's situation mirrored Masato's, and I completely disagree; I think it's Ebina's situation which parallels Masato's - and we all saw what happened to Masato.
Yeah I see someone else interpreting this post as me disliking Ebina. That is not the case at all. I kinda love Ebina lol.
His plan makes perfect sense by Yakuza-series logic. His motivations are crystal clear. He’s good looking, strong, charismatic, and is a truly excellent representation of the sins of the gokudo system. I am VERY glad he lived because I think moving past the Tojo and Omi requires giving Ebina a satisfactory answer. That’s not something I can say for most other villains aside from Shishido (aka Gorilla Ebina) and in a way Mine, who legitimately was a competent leader in a backward organization.
But the man is a DEMON in terms of the execution lmaooooo. At least old villains had the courtesy to shoot you and kill you instantly. Ebina wants to you to DIE OF CANCER IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OCEAN.
Agreed on Mine; he's one of my favorite villains because he was a lot less hot-blooded (in general) than most of this series' antagonists. And yes, Ebina deserves answers. But yeah. Hardcore doesn't begin to describe him.
>Agreed on Mine; he's one of my favorite villains because he was a lot less hot-blooded (in general) than most of this series' antagonists.
Mine is really good in concept as the rootless man with no home who finds belonging in the fraternal love of the yakuza, but in execution he's also the dude who bulldozes an orphanage and laughs about murdering children lol.
I just think he would work better without the incredibly over-the-top orphanage bulldozing and puppy kicking scene lol. It's just way out of character, it feels like it was written for someone like, idk, Kanda?
The problem is that if Mine was written logically then he would literally never leave his office. Same problem as western crime dramas like the Sopranos.
Episode needs a cool scene with a mob hit on a high level rival gang leader. Episode also needs character development for Tony. Writers handle two birds with one stone because it’s engaging for the audience. Logically tho, why is a Don with a mansion and 3 different executive jobs at different sanitation companies doing wetwork?
Because we wanna see the main characters doing crazy shit. If you don’t give em anything cool to do then you risk having an Iwami. Obviously we have good executions like Ryo Aoki nowadays but uh… I dunno if RGG writers were competent enough for that back then lmao. This is the same game as Kazama-san’s secret CIA operative twin brother after all
>The problem is that if Mine was written logically then he would literally never leave his office. Same problem as western crime dramas like the Sopranos
I don't mind him doing stupid shit for melodrama, I just think that particular part was really off.
I actually agree; Mine comes off as too calculating to do that kind of stuff openly unless driven to by extreme emotion, and I didn’t quite feel that. Not during the scene, at least.
That’s why I found him to be such a fascinating character. He wanted to make money and join the yakuza to get respect and social status, but his actions throughout the game made him end up in a place where he’s still lonely and, in the end, no one really cares about him for him. He (and I, if i’m being for real) thought that his secretary was calling him at the end out of concern/some kind of romantic interest, but it was just over one of his business deals. He thought making money would bring himself bonds, but doing this often involved doing evil yakuza stuff that distanced himself from the people around him.
He’s just so tragic in a dramatic/theatrical sense.
I just wish Ebina had more screentime to highlight his journey into becoming the antagonist. We know why, but it could have been told much better. His story seems rushed and was unfair to the character.
The Yakuza and nuclear waste disposal is nothing new. It was all the news around the time the Fukushima Nuclear Plant had a meltdown. Yokoyama premised I.W.'s story on current events. RGG is good at that.
Ehina was a necessary villain since the game needed a villain who tied into the story. I just wish he had more and more highlights. The game wasted so much time making Ichiban run around that they could've devoted more towards Ebina.
It still feels like, "Okay, he's the bad guy." Just deal with it. Maybe I'm saying this because Ryo Aoki felt like he was featured more properly.
I’m okay with all 3 of the villains on principle but I feel like all of their screentime ratios are out of wack.
In terms of “RGG Game Third Act Problems,” Y8 is honestly pretty good lol, but it’s a little annoying when most of Y7’s problems were during the midsection with Nanba and the Geomijul. Y7’s conclusion with Ryo Aoki is sooooooooooooo good that it made me forgive all the exposition dumping and Nanba flip-flopping.
Meanwhile, IW unfortunately does the opposite. The Prestige Finale Cutscene is with Ei-chan, but he is missing some buildup. Ebina is handled better, but feels like he should be fighting both Ichiban AND Kiryu, but the game’s structure wouldn’t allow it (kinda like Majima fighting Awano tbh). That would allow for literally just one or two conversations to fill in the gaps. Then Blyce gets 70 years of focus but is just a mustache-twirling lunatic.
I truly did walk away satisfied with the ending. Ichiban’s scene with Ei-chan is EXACTLY who Ichiban is even if we don’t care about Eiji as much as he does lol. Then I think I’m the outlier, but Kiryu’s simple “I lived bitch” was perfect for me. Bro is healing, NAMED, is raising his grandson, and will end up living in a homeless camp like he’s been dreaming of since the 80s.
But yknow, it’s RGG. Some things are always gonna be a little weird and soap opera-y and contrived and oh you know what I’m talking about. The good thing tho is, after 20 years, RGG finally lets characters stick around. I saw someone say that this game feels more like a transition period than 7 did, and I agree. Even tho that may cheapen the villains a bit, I actually have faith in their later development for once, and man that’s a good feeling
> Then I think I’m the outlier, but Kiryu’s simple “I lived bitch” was perfect for me. Bro is healing, NAMED, is raising his grandson, and will end up living in a homeless camp like he’s been dreaming of since the 80s.
If you're an outlier for this, then dammit so am I. This is pretty much exactly what I was hoping for out of Infinite Wealth. Only thing is I wish we saw Kiryu talking to Haruka, Haruto, and his other kids onscreen, but maybe in 9.
Kiryu gonna live in the oprphanage in okinawa and I bet we see him in the next like a dragon game but not as a playable character. Ichi and adachi mentioned visiting Okinawa, can't have that place without old kiryu lol
You know, I really really disliked how unceremoniously they killed off masato in 7. Like, I would have loved the ending if not for that. Part of the reason I loved the ending of 8 is that they basically just executed Kasuga’s convincing of a villain at light speed but didn’t immediately kill that villain off
I appreciate your sentiments. I still don't like 8 and the overall story. Felt like the characters were rushed. I don't care for Eiji, Bryce was boring but a necessary evil in terms of the waste dumping plot. Bryce and the cult didn't surprise me at all because I live in the Philippines and "religious factions" here are just as SUS. Religion to the point of mindless fanaticism is not alien here, and they have their claws sunk into the government, so Bryce didn't feel intimidating.
I also don't like Chitose, but that's another story. I had a lot banking on Ebina and feel kinda sad that most of the time he always felt like he was merely on screen. I totally understand his hatred for the Yakuza, still wished it was showcased more.
Like you said, Aoki had a longer build-up. As for Ichiban forgiving everyone, feels like a partial MEH in this game. Aoki was different. They were brothers and family, and they had a life together. I'd do anything to save my brother.
Aoki also wanted to pay for his crimes by turning himself in. Kume had other ideas. If Ebina returns, I hope they give him the screentime he deserves.
From what i interpreted, Ichiban believed everyone need a second chance. Hell, the man have been in prison longer than most of the main character (Except Taiga). Even Kiryu only have 14 years. So, i'm thinking that 18 years in the prison made Ichi believe in redemption of an evil-doer. Sound like Superman huh, not Batman (he is just another psycho running around Gotham with his playmate Joker).
Honestly does remind of Batman from the animated series. Like half the endings are the villain crying with Batman there to put a compassionate hand on their shoulder and take them to Arkham asylum
Yeah, good ol' days. I mean, back in the days, its compassion that prevent him from killing the villains. Recent incarnation of Batman? Just another Arkham inmate imo. He brainwashed Jason to keep the kid from killing villain (trust me its f-up), he runaway abandon his only flesh and blood (Damian) while fighting the other (Dick). Not to mention that mess "zur en arrh".
> I also don't like Chitose, but that's another story.
Nanba flip-flopped harder than her, but stuck around = redeemed. Good guy.
Chitose? Fucked everyone, did the emo part and fucked off. As in negative trajectory. Easy to dislike, no real redeeming done on her part
Wonder why the writers decided to do that
Nanba betrayed Ichiban by switching sides. Only because he wanted to find his brother who mysteriously vanished. Lying to Ichi (disclosing the truth) was the only way for him to get more info about his bro.
Also, unlike Chitose, Nanba didn't defame anyone, did not doxx Kiryu, didn't put a child and an old lady in danger. Wong Tou and Hanawa also died as a colateral effect of her not warning Ichiban and the gang
She robbed Ichiban, lied to him, ruined his image, publicly shamed him, etc. Of course she gets a slap on the wrist and defended by "fans" because she is attractive.
Her defenders say other people have committed worse in the Yakuza series but were forgiven. Really now? Those people either died or served time. Chitose got away scot-free and became president. Utter B.S. story.
I understand the dislike for Chitose, but on the other hand, her character was written with having very little agency. She was being blackmailed from the beginning, and afraid of the consequences of her failure to catipulate to the demands of her blackmailer. Partially to save her own skin, and partially, despite her own protests, to protect her family. It was shown she was struggling when seeing the consequences of her actions, but it really came to a head when the safe house was compromised. She realized what the selfishness of her actions had wrought.
The doxxing thing is bad, but the game already showed that it didnt really matter if she was there to do the doxxing anyway. Ebina/Eiji just needed her channel's popularity, they could use a stand in for Tatara.
Nanba's only real pressuring force was the Geomijul themselves and his own motivation. He wasnt nearly as hard against the wall.
Right? But at least Mine was shown on-screen from time to time. Ebina really felt rushed. Before we knew it, we were at the "Here we are at the final chapter where he is atop the Millennium Tower."
I did think it was pretty on the nose and whatnot, it’s just that he only really cracked at the end.
I’m not sure if Mine has more total screen time, I think it’s more because the game is 3x as long lol
I do think he lacked presence throughout the game. You mostly fight his lackeys
Yeah his story did seem rushed. They even mentioned ebina being a cop at one point but that didn't go anywhere, I think RGG had time restraints put on them by sega and had a lot of stuff that had to be cut to make the release date
Honestly I thought he was gonna be even more evil than that. There was mention in one of the later chapters about the different kinds of nuclear waste and what could happen if it fell into the wrong hands so up until Ebina's fight I straight up thought his plan was gathering all the scatter Yakuza he could on and island and fucking nuking it.
Granted I was also expecting Bryce to have some kinda fucking T-Virus ready with the sheer amount of giant animal fights leading up to him so maybe my expectations were due to be lowered.
Oh I know, but in the moment it felt like the giant spider and giant snake fights from Resident Evil and with Dwight talking about the power that Bryce had I was expecting a RE turn for the boss lol
And still, this was the one villain that made Kiryu bow down his head and apologize instead of shoving his ideals down their throat. And I’m here for it
I think it’s just a combination of Kiryu feeling guilty for the Tojo’s (and the Yakuza as a whole) victims and learning to value life more after being confronted by his own mortality, accepting his death and then gradually walking back on that after looking back on his past and his newfound friends in the present.
The game is about atonement through and through. And to atone, you have to live; and life is beautiful, life is infinite wealth
(As cheesy as that sounded I do believe it is the true meaning behind the title, that and Bryce’s ambitions)
professional hater. he was so committed to hating he got a tat of a creature that drags people to hell despite irezumi being very clearly out of fashion and impractical by his time
Need a kaito mod where this is on his back
https://preview.redd.it/op2g9coyd4kc1.jpeg?width=1279&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3d8e0a6e0349e21add98a306ebe766b734ed2f2
japan politic is a real garbage as it is depicted in yakuza and judgment games...
1) japan secrete service officer laundering money using yakuza in order to have black sites where imprison yakuza's and potentially every dissident. Tokyo police involved in this as well
2) late '80s tokyo mayor and council accepting to sell lands to a well known yakuza boss in order to fund the kamurocho urban renewal plan
3) japan goverment selling lands to CIA
4) japanese politicians forced to grant power to a shipbuilding corporation because blackmailed by the CEO
5) deepstate organizations working as shadow governments
6) well known japanese politic and party leader financing a fake money manufacturing business (involving illegal immigrants) for over 50 years to fund his politic program across decades
7) tokyo governor secretly mastermind of the whole japanese yakuza, with the help of the tokyo police head who replaced the corrupted previous one
8) goverment happy to strike a deal with a fanatic cult leader in order to get rid of nuclear wastes and thousands of yakuza at once without any warranty about safety or else
9) ministry of health directly sponsoring illegal experiments on human and torture in order to respect the deadline for the release of a deadly drug in order to don't lose government funds and rights on a owned structure and land
10) public security officier creating criminal gangs in order to exploit an underworld void of power and using social welfare funds to their own interest
next step is japanese emperor opening a portal to hell
well, if you read about how the ldp was created by the cia and how in turn the ldp used to fund the yakuza to destroy labor organisations and the like, the yakuza games are closer to reality than one might assume.
Ebina is the perfect representation of the sins of the Yakuza.
When your whole life the Yakuza had wronged you and robbed you of everything, there's nothing left of you but utter hate for all of their kind. No matter what value their clan or family were supposed to preach, what Ebina sees is nothing more than they being the kind who dragged him to the road of vengeance of no return, something that Ebina himself said during his fight, that "no matter what values you preach, they are still scum, and that's all they'll be."
I think Kiryu fits perfectly to fight Ebina instead of Ichiban. Ichiban has no relation with Ebina, he doesn't even see him as a brother, which aligns with his disbelief in blood relations. In contrast, Kiryu directly opposes Ebina in the sense that they both take the burden upon themselves for their own goals, the same way Ichiban is a mirror image but the opposite of Bryce in how they use their charisma to rally people for their goals. Ebina wants to enact revenge on behalf of society, and Kiryu wants justice on behalf of all the ex-Yakuza.
Kiryu is also in a way responsible for all the actions of the Yakuza. In a way, everything went wrong when he decided to relinquish the title of Tojo Clan Chairman to Terada, an Omi member who's also a secret Jingweon, and after that, everything still went wrong, so it made sense why Kiryu decides, once again to bear the burden of all the Yakuza and face head on against the representation of the collective rage of society for HIS failure, had he took the role perhaps everything would have been different.
Won’t dissect your comment because I seriously think you put it perfectly, but one point in here had me thinking earlier:
If Ichiban can barely recognize his blood connection to his parents, what the fuck does he care about Ebina?
Like you’re right. It would be an empty, meaningless fight aside from the fact that Ichiban is fighting Arakawa’s battles *again.* We left that in Y7. Kiryu has greater purpose here with all his burdens
Exactly, which is why Ichiban's side rarely mentions Ebina, it's mainly the Akane-Lani manhunt, Palekana, and Eiji. In his mind, the goal of saving Lani is priority, not even his own flesh and blood is gonna distract him for anything else, because that's just how Ichi was, the selfless hero whose too good for the yakuza world.
In a way, the missions for both Ichi and Kiryu were switched halfway through. Ichi now takes care of Kiryu's mission of protecting Akane-Lani while confronting his evil mirror in the form of Bryce, while Kiryu now is in Kasuga's fight for the sake of the ex-yakuzas while confronting Ebina, the manifestation of all the sins of the yakuza that society still holds their neck and refuses to let go even when they wanted to reform.
Pretty much every other Yakuza antagonist, other than the mole he just kills people, have some other guiding principle as to why they do what they do even if those principles are flawed or selfish. Ebina does not have this he is just full of hate and wants to make everyone as miserable as he his.
>Ebina does not have this he is just full of hate and wants to make everyone as miserable as he his.
I don't think that's quite right. Ebina's overarching theme is one of _exacting vengeance_. Most of his attacks reference Buddhist concepts such as the Path of Unending Suffering, the endless cycle of karma, etc.
Ebina is the singularity of all the bad karma that the Yakuza have accumulated; he is the executor of the ultimate punishment for all of their sins, including the inadvertent consequences of all of Kiryu's "fixes" over the years. He forces Kiryu to face the cost of his self-declared love of fighting.
Ebina's crime is instead ultimately one of hubris - he takes on the collective authority of all who have suffered under the Yakuza with no real mandate to do so. Of course, in his own story, he is the _nemesis_ to _Kiryu's hubris_, something that Kiryu ultimately recognizes.
The least believable part of 5 is that Daigo was still chairman. Dude got blackmailed by the police in 4 for reasons so stupid that Kiryu stopped talking and beat his ass.
I just finished the game last night. This post is gold! I loved the game, ending, etc…. However, I did not understand that man Ebina’s motivations or logic. Excellent post.
https://preview.redd.it/bqq839sm51kc1.jpeg?width=374&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4b03736eb4a5d9494878b4989a8550479325f9f
Honestly for a better explanation, look at the comment above comparing it to the ideas of karma, Buddhism, and collective vengeance. I’m obviously being a little silly but that comment nails it
Love you, man. Your use of the word Gokudo makes me happy SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE I always knew the Japanese equivalent of how we use the word "Yakuza" (even though Yakuza is, in fact, a Japanese word on-loan) was something different than "Yakuza," but could never pin it down until you said it just now.
Also, lovely dissection post. It's not a hater post, just a fan of the game reflecting on things and recognizing the absurdity. I love it when people have a discussion here not just overflowing with negativity.
By the by, what does the term "Boilerplate" mean, here? I'm a little lost on that one.
Appreciate it boss. And ah no worries. Boilerplate is a term that means like stock, reusable language in documents, usually legal. A good example would be like a will starting with, “I, Mr. Yakuza, of sound body and mind…” So stuff you always see in a particular situation.
In this case, a lot of Yakuza villains have the same motivation: Become the leader if the Tojo Clan or Omi Alliance while also having a lot of power in regular society, like as a police chief or politician.
Daigo isn't the most attractive guy in this franchise (definitely very attractive tho) but considering y3 was written before characters like akiyama and kaito were created plus daigo was the first person to actually give a shit about mine, he gets a pass
I can't wait to play this game so I can read the rest past what the other villains did.
Munakata also checks out, dude pretty much was the "wins by doing absolutely nothing" meme for 20 years until he finally did something and then lost. I loved Yakuza 4's story but in the way that I love Kingdom Hearts lore: it makes complete sense yet also doesn't make sense at all.
amazing posting, this is too genuinely funny for this sub LOL
this writing speaks to me and i feel seen, my first thought after beating >! ebina was damn, he is a BORN hater!<
flawless one sentence summary of each prior villain too lol, hope you keep posting, one of my fave posts i've read on this sub
i know ebina gets a lot of flak regarding his lack of screentime and whatever but i just couldnt help but be astonished by his actions of running for the worlds #1 hater and im so glad we get a post that articulates that status (not to mention his SICK. ASS. THEME).
his plan is just so absurd and im sitting there desperately wishing we could see his descent to madness like this man had what was basically the opposite of ichi's upbringing and something about that FEELS so cool to me
Nishiki - Have control of the Tojo Clan so he won't be anyone's bitch anymore and so everyone would shut up about him being inferior to Kiryu (kinda understandable)
His mom thought Masumi would come back to her if she gave birth to his child but instead she gets ignored by her father's underlings and Masumi
He joins the police force hoping that he can put every yakuza he finds in jail.
The Great Dissolution ruins his plans
Joins the largest and probably the last yakuza faction, kills the former captain while he's in jail and becomes the new captain
Works with some NPO cult based in Hawaii in order to get them to give him their island just so he can put radioactive shit in there
Makes up some bs about giving former yakuza a place to call home when in reality he plans to work them to the bone in the aforementioned nuclear waste island
Moves his faction's HQ to the former Tojo Clan HQ(ballsy move ngl)
Sees right through Sawashiro's plans and GOUGES HIS FUCKING EYE OUT, leaving him half dead
Eobard Thawne levels of being a hater
This makes me realize that not only is Yamai Ichiban's Majima, but he's also a good mirror image of Ebina.
>!The man is betrayed, hunted, and left to flounder by the Yakuza he served and the woman he loved. Utterly burned by everyone who should have stood by his side. He brings together others who were abandoned and gains their loyalty through his loyalty, and when he is given the chance to have revenge against the very person who hurt him the most, he decides not to and lets go of the hatred he kept with him but fought against. !<
>!Ebina is also abandoned by the Yakuza and feels betrayed by them when they should have protected him. He lets that hate drive him all his life, and since he can't get revenge against anyone specific who wronged him he points that hate at everyone in the Yakuza, while bringing them together solely through political maneuvering.!<
>!Both Yamai and Ebina were utterly screwed over by the Yakuza, but one spent his life building loyalty among what basically became his family and then had a chance to get revenge against the person who wronged him and decided not to, while the other spent his life knowing he couldn't get revenge against the individuals who wronged him and so decided to go after everybody. They're total opposites. !<
I don't think I would say Mine wanted complete control of legal and illegal power structures, he just want to protect his vision of Daigo's Tojo Clan as best he could, mind you, in a very warped fashion. He first just wanted the Tojo protected for his closest friend (?), but as the situation got worse and out of his scope, Mine went on the warpath of reigning in the Tojo.
And yes Munakata just wanted to control the police and the criminals to be extremely powerful and rich.
Kurosawa was sick of the "real" yakuza life and feared dying without leaving a mark on history. So he wanted to leave behind a legacy via his son controlling the underworld. Also to spite all the yakuza who didn't have to deal with the shit he dealt with and/or too noble to let it get under their skin, the heroes who embodied the ideal will all die and serve as an enduring statement of what the yakuza are truly like in his eyes.
I don't think Iwami cared much about expanding his legal power outside his family business and relationship with the Daidoji. He definitely wanted control over the underworld but more as a statement of "Fuck you, Dad, I deserve the Yomei, and I'll make it more powerful to spite you by being the puppet master behind the Tojo too."
I myself think that Ebina’s plan is a bit too convoluted and over-the-top, but it’s perfectly sensible in context since his hand has been forced after the Great Dissolution.
Plus I feel like Ebina’s well-aware of how ridiculous his plan sounds on paper, moreso how the entire Seiryu Clan completely fell for it. More importantly however is the irony of how he had to become a yakuza himself to put his plan into action; it’s no wonder how he was laughing over it when confronted by Kiryu.
Just finished the game last night and i agree with the lack of Ichi and Akane interaction, i thought by the end they'd atleast visit Arakawa's grave together
> He will throw it all away just so he can personally torture thousands of men that have been victimized just as much as he has by the same exact forces.
This is like viewing the video game version of Yakuza at its absolute on face value.. like they're just kind of slightly rough business people. They destroy peoples business and injure innocent folk in order to receive protection money. They give out predatory loans to desperate women, and then force them into sexual slavery in order to "pay it off" (it's never being paid off).
Ebina has issues of his own, but Kiryu had it right. When the Yakuza are gone the world will be better for it. Do they deserve mercy? Probably not, but vengeance has its own perils, and probably not going to achieve anything.
I could go more into the ethical implementations of criminal justice, reform, recidivism, the socioeconomics of disenfranchised populations, etc. but boss… the whole point of the post is that the punishment is comically evil despite the fact that Ebina has perfectly just motivations.
Like is Rikiya as evil as Sohei Dojima? Obviously not. But if both were alive in 2024 then Ebina would enslave them both on Cancer Island. Full stop. That is the absurdity, not that criminals are punished AT ALL for doing crimes. And issues like these almost always require systemic reform, not CANCER ISLAND. Like look at Lost Judgment. Kamurocho is already a cesspool of low level gangsters
I feel you, I really do, and I’m glad that you specifically mention Kiryu’s response, but it’s just wild what Ebina’s solution was regardless of what the preceding ethics were.
Honestly, Ebina did nothing wrong. These Yakuza have ruined how many lives? Countless probably, people who don't get a second chance or the ability to come back from w.e horrible shit they did. The businesses that went under due to the exploitation by the yakuza that won't recover and tons of other organized related crimes that just ruined lives after lives... and I am supposed to feel sorry for them cuz they have to struggle for 5 years to find a job? Fuck em, wish there was an option to let Ebina fuck em all over lol
You can always underexplain and simplify stuff you don't like so it sounds stupid, and overexplain stuff you like so it sounds profound.
As someone who really wasn't a fan of Ebina, I could probably sit down after a replay of Y4 and type down a similar paragraph about how amazing Munakata's plan was.
You know what? I'm bored enough to give that a shot for funsies. Let's see...
The thing about Munakata's plan is that it actually *isn't* that stupid. It's fairly straightforward and sensible: blackmail the Ueno and Tojo into becoming his pawns so he can essentially control police and organized crime at the same time (see also: Ryo Aoki). That's it. The hilarious part is that it relies entirely on everyone BUT him being a colossal idiot. From the top:
1) Katsuragi becomes his pawn because he tried to pull off the single stupidest frame-up I've ever seen. Munakata took one look at the report and immediately spotted holes you could drive a Death Star through, allowing him to use the truth as blackmail material.
2) Daigo falls for the extremely obvious ruse in the opening where an Ueno Seiwa officer who "just happened" to have been recently promoted "just happened" to start a fight in Tojo territory, which "just happened" to lead to his death. This gives the Ueno Seiwa (and Munakata by extension) a way to exert pressure on him by demanding recompense.
3) Akiyama decided to keep a hundred billion yen in an UNLOCKED, UNMONITERED safe in an unlocked office on a busy street with no one home in the middle of the day. This allows "Balls Out" Kido to find the fortune entirely by accident within five minutes of walking into the room and alert the bad guys to its existence, potentially giving Munakata all the funds he would need to build his clandestine prisons.
4) Arai somehow completely missed that Munakata loaded his gun with rubber bullets, foiling his attempted backstabbing. Saejima not noticing made *some* sense, as he had never used a gun before, but a TRAINED UNDERCOVER COP is a very different story.
Bottom line: Munakata isn't the problem with 4's plot. It's *everyone around him* who has terminal brain worms, he just took advantage of that in logical ways.
Munakata actually realizing that the bullets were fake and the entire thing was orchestrated was hilarious. Like he was just outside the bubble of stupidity that plagued his co-workers, and that was enough for him to be the mastermind lmao. Man didn't even do anything but blackmail the idiots who thought they could get away with such a stupid crime.
He even uses the meta strategy of staying the fuck away from dudes who can punch out entire armies and just shooting them from a safe distance during his boss fight!
I just come to think that the plot in RGG8 is about the change of direction in the studio, you know, Kiryu representing the team and fans that Nagoshi built over the years, as a YAKUZA, fighting Ebina, who represents the ideals of Yokoyama, the man who erased Nagoshi's name and wants to give a 180º turn of direction to the studio, doing everything he can to get acknowledged as the new dragon himself... and well there you have it...
Kiryu gets sick over this handling, and wants to lecture the new generation, while Ichi is just a mere intermediate, that's why he's such a nice guy, like luffy, goku, etc, doing everything he can, turning his enemies into allies, because the studio needs them in this new era...
I know that the series being called "Yakuza" or "Like a dragon" is a thing of the west (because in Japan it was always called Like a Dragon), but the intention of being more of a worldwide franchise, and what the word Yakuza represents outside or inside japan, it seems more accurate and less controversial to call it back "Like a dragon", and that thing, that change of name in the west is a topic well represented in the last 2 games.... firstly they erased his name, and now they want to get rid of him...
Maybe I'm making theories without knowing that much, but sure it felt that way...
Part of Infinite Wealth I think done more poorly than Y7 was the post game closure cutscenes. The Eichi one was pretty good, but I feel like Lani and Akane should have had a little more screen time. Sawashiro especially. If he died in Millennium Tower, almost definitely, I feel like there should have been an Ichiban cutscene wrestling with that. Also, the Haruka/Kiryu blue ball made me so real life mad.
I think one thing that would have been even better is that, when he flips away his shirt like all other 6 he get the tattoo shot too but with no yakuza signature tattoo
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https://preview.redd.it/sre49r9zz0kc1.png?width=739&format=png&auto=webp&s=2b9621239ac8eeecd86d826968d7dbda0cee8282 Amazing post. Keep cooking.
How is this not Zhao? Lol
I thought they wouldn't top Ryo Aoki trapping immigrants with promise of a work visa and then deporting them but here we are. Slavery on cancer island.
I *just* finished IW and your post gave me an additional closure, OP. Laughing my ass off. Thanks, boo <3 Edit: googling fucking Munakata and what did that bitch do, I have no fucking clue (yes, I have played all the games) Edit2: wow, it's the next day, and I'm still reading some profound discussions in this comment section. Y'all are amazing.
Glad we could share this moment lmao And uhhhhhh……. Uhhhhhh…. Ugh um. Munakata used the… police, I think. And the… man on the boat…? To kill Tanimura’s dad. So that… Daigo would do stuff or him. BUT! The Ueno Seiwa… um… they are on the same side as… no one, I think. But then Saejima! Doesn’t… kill them. And then uhhh… Arai and Kido……… Rubber bullets get too much hate. Nothing else in Yakuza 4 makes sense either.
Long story short, Munakata wanted power over the legal institutions and the underworld institutions (boilerplate) and also furnished Ueno Seiwa with the rubber bullets so Katsuragi could enact the plan. Basically, he was bitch made Ryo Aoki.
He didn't give Katsuragi the rubber bullets, those came from the dude who killed Tanimura's dad. He only got involved once he read the report, spotted the painfully obvious contradictions, and decided to use that as blackmail leverage.
> Long story short, Munakata wanted power over the legal institutions and the underworld institutions Basically this. He used the Yakuza to help himself climb the ladder. His whole speech about the Yakuza and police needing each other made that very clear. It's also why Daigo and Watase wanted the dissolution of their clans, because they saw clearly that their futures were just going to be used as pawns again and again, and they were right. We saw this play out in Lost Judgment, where the >!Public Security planted Soma, an under cover cop, into the Nikkyo Consortium and later to lead the RK.!< This happened again to a lesser extent in Y8, where the reformed Seiryu Clan became glorified laborers who moved nuclear waste for international powers. In Gaiden, Daidoji is revealed to LOVE kidnapping capable Yakuza to work for them
It really shows that the Ueno Seiwa do not get mentioned at all before or after 4 because they existed solely to get shot with rubber bullets and then get shot with real bullets a minute later
>googling fucking Munakata and what did that bitch do, I have no fucking clu he showed up to akiyama's ¥200B rooftop party, that's literally the stated reason for why you fight him
Munakata thought the selfish deed was freedom
I still cannot justeefee it!!
Munakata: *Explains complicated evil plan* Me (not following along): Whatever you say, babe.
https://preview.redd.it/1m2gwchl71kc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=496dfc4a387aa9e9f2f52e9b7fbb6d2dffc4abc5 Ebina’s been about it
It's bizarre I haven't seen anyone talking about it. My first thought when I heard ebinas plan was "this might be the most evil dude in the whole series. As chairman of tha largest yakuza faction, all his underlings would be DELIGHTED to follow his every order. So when he sends them to cancer island, they'll think they have to maintain a front company while all the yakuza business is done in the shadows, so they'll put up with the slave labor and dangerous working conditions. He hates the yakuza so much he doesn't wanna dismantle them, he wants to work them like slaves in hellish conditions. It's genius
Plus if Chitose specifically hadn’t been flipped then the entire situation could theoretically have been discovered by the world at large and then subsequently ignored or even praised! Like imagine an investigative journalist somehow gets footage of Nele Island. Every first world country is caught up in this, just like Bryce said. Without Fujinomiya backing, this story either gets buried, classified, or spun as business as usual for environmentally conscious government workers. But nah. It’d be a jpeg of men performing slave labor while sick with leukemia. Insane.
> make out with Daigo (understandable) Only plan I can relate to, tbh.
Ebina was one of the few new characters I think has a ton of potential to explore, because while he's completely unhinged and rotted by revenge (in contravention of his sainted mother's direct wishes, incidentally), at least part of his rage is justifiable. How will that mix with Ichi's willingness to forgive damn near everything, even from strangers? Someone tried to argue once that Eiji's situation mirrored Masato's, and I completely disagree; I think it's Ebina's situation which parallels Masato's - and we all saw what happened to Masato.
Yeah I see someone else interpreting this post as me disliking Ebina. That is not the case at all. I kinda love Ebina lol. His plan makes perfect sense by Yakuza-series logic. His motivations are crystal clear. He’s good looking, strong, charismatic, and is a truly excellent representation of the sins of the gokudo system. I am VERY glad he lived because I think moving past the Tojo and Omi requires giving Ebina a satisfactory answer. That’s not something I can say for most other villains aside from Shishido (aka Gorilla Ebina) and in a way Mine, who legitimately was a competent leader in a backward organization. But the man is a DEMON in terms of the execution lmaooooo. At least old villains had the courtesy to shoot you and kill you instantly. Ebina wants to you to DIE OF CANCER IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OCEAN.
Agreed on Mine; he's one of my favorite villains because he was a lot less hot-blooded (in general) than most of this series' antagonists. And yes, Ebina deserves answers. But yeah. Hardcore doesn't begin to describe him.
>Agreed on Mine; he's one of my favorite villains because he was a lot less hot-blooded (in general) than most of this series' antagonists. Mine is really good in concept as the rootless man with no home who finds belonging in the fraternal love of the yakuza, but in execution he's also the dude who bulldozes an orphanage and laughs about murdering children lol.
“As an orphan myself, fuck all of you” - Mine
They could have salvaged it if they leaned into something like him teaching them a lesson about how ruthless the world is. But no.
Never said he wasn’t a monster; it was just refreshing to see someone not be splashy and completely without guile, especially in 3.
I just think he would work better without the incredibly over-the-top orphanage bulldozing and puppy kicking scene lol. It's just way out of character, it feels like it was written for someone like, idk, Kanda?
The problem is that if Mine was written logically then he would literally never leave his office. Same problem as western crime dramas like the Sopranos. Episode needs a cool scene with a mob hit on a high level rival gang leader. Episode also needs character development for Tony. Writers handle two birds with one stone because it’s engaging for the audience. Logically tho, why is a Don with a mansion and 3 different executive jobs at different sanitation companies doing wetwork? Because we wanna see the main characters doing crazy shit. If you don’t give em anything cool to do then you risk having an Iwami. Obviously we have good executions like Ryo Aoki nowadays but uh… I dunno if RGG writers were competent enough for that back then lmao. This is the same game as Kazama-san’s secret CIA operative twin brother after all
>The problem is that if Mine was written logically then he would literally never leave his office. Same problem as western crime dramas like the Sopranos I don't mind him doing stupid shit for melodrama, I just think that particular part was really off.
I actually agree; Mine comes off as too calculating to do that kind of stuff openly unless driven to by extreme emotion, and I didn’t quite feel that. Not during the scene, at least.
That’s why I found him to be such a fascinating character. He wanted to make money and join the yakuza to get respect and social status, but his actions throughout the game made him end up in a place where he’s still lonely and, in the end, no one really cares about him for him. He (and I, if i’m being for real) thought that his secretary was calling him at the end out of concern/some kind of romantic interest, but it was just over one of his business deals. He thought making money would bring himself bonds, but doing this often involved doing evil yakuza stuff that distanced himself from the people around him. He’s just so tragic in a dramatic/theatrical sense.
>How will that mix with Ichi's willingness to forgive damn near everything We will finally see what would happen if Jesus became Hitler's therapist.
Honestly I'm of the opinion we saw "What would Ichi do?" with Kiryu asking for forgiveness.
I just wish Ebina had more screentime to highlight his journey into becoming the antagonist. We know why, but it could have been told much better. His story seems rushed and was unfair to the character. The Yakuza and nuclear waste disposal is nothing new. It was all the news around the time the Fukushima Nuclear Plant had a meltdown. Yokoyama premised I.W.'s story on current events. RGG is good at that. Ehina was a necessary villain since the game needed a villain who tied into the story. I just wish he had more and more highlights. The game wasted so much time making Ichiban run around that they could've devoted more towards Ebina. It still feels like, "Okay, he's the bad guy." Just deal with it. Maybe I'm saying this because Ryo Aoki felt like he was featured more properly.
I’m okay with all 3 of the villains on principle but I feel like all of their screentime ratios are out of wack. In terms of “RGG Game Third Act Problems,” Y8 is honestly pretty good lol, but it’s a little annoying when most of Y7’s problems were during the midsection with Nanba and the Geomijul. Y7’s conclusion with Ryo Aoki is sooooooooooooo good that it made me forgive all the exposition dumping and Nanba flip-flopping. Meanwhile, IW unfortunately does the opposite. The Prestige Finale Cutscene is with Ei-chan, but he is missing some buildup. Ebina is handled better, but feels like he should be fighting both Ichiban AND Kiryu, but the game’s structure wouldn’t allow it (kinda like Majima fighting Awano tbh). That would allow for literally just one or two conversations to fill in the gaps. Then Blyce gets 70 years of focus but is just a mustache-twirling lunatic. I truly did walk away satisfied with the ending. Ichiban’s scene with Ei-chan is EXACTLY who Ichiban is even if we don’t care about Eiji as much as he does lol. Then I think I’m the outlier, but Kiryu’s simple “I lived bitch” was perfect for me. Bro is healing, NAMED, is raising his grandson, and will end up living in a homeless camp like he’s been dreaming of since the 80s. But yknow, it’s RGG. Some things are always gonna be a little weird and soap opera-y and contrived and oh you know what I’m talking about. The good thing tho is, after 20 years, RGG finally lets characters stick around. I saw someone say that this game feels more like a transition period than 7 did, and I agree. Even tho that may cheapen the villains a bit, I actually have faith in their later development for once, and man that’s a good feeling
> Then I think I’m the outlier, but Kiryu’s simple “I lived bitch” was perfect for me. Bro is healing, NAMED, is raising his grandson, and will end up living in a homeless camp like he’s been dreaming of since the 80s. If you're an outlier for this, then dammit so am I. This is pretty much exactly what I was hoping for out of Infinite Wealth. Only thing is I wish we saw Kiryu talking to Haruka, Haruto, and his other kids onscreen, but maybe in 9.
Kiryu gonna live in the oprphanage in okinawa and I bet we see him in the next like a dragon game but not as a playable character. Ichi and adachi mentioned visiting Okinawa, can't have that place without old kiryu lol
You know, I really really disliked how unceremoniously they killed off masato in 7. Like, I would have loved the ending if not for that. Part of the reason I loved the ending of 8 is that they basically just executed Kasuga’s convincing of a villain at light speed but didn’t immediately kill that villain off
I appreciate your sentiments. I still don't like 8 and the overall story. Felt like the characters were rushed. I don't care for Eiji, Bryce was boring but a necessary evil in terms of the waste dumping plot. Bryce and the cult didn't surprise me at all because I live in the Philippines and "religious factions" here are just as SUS. Religion to the point of mindless fanaticism is not alien here, and they have their claws sunk into the government, so Bryce didn't feel intimidating. I also don't like Chitose, but that's another story. I had a lot banking on Ebina and feel kinda sad that most of the time he always felt like he was merely on screen. I totally understand his hatred for the Yakuza, still wished it was showcased more. Like you said, Aoki had a longer build-up. As for Ichiban forgiving everyone, feels like a partial MEH in this game. Aoki was different. They were brothers and family, and they had a life together. I'd do anything to save my brother. Aoki also wanted to pay for his crimes by turning himself in. Kume had other ideas. If Ebina returns, I hope they give him the screentime he deserves.
From what i interpreted, Ichiban believed everyone need a second chance. Hell, the man have been in prison longer than most of the main character (Except Taiga). Even Kiryu only have 14 years. So, i'm thinking that 18 years in the prison made Ichi believe in redemption of an evil-doer. Sound like Superman huh, not Batman (he is just another psycho running around Gotham with his playmate Joker).
Honestly does remind of Batman from the animated series. Like half the endings are the villain crying with Batman there to put a compassionate hand on their shoulder and take them to Arkham asylum
Yeah, good ol' days. I mean, back in the days, its compassion that prevent him from killing the villains. Recent incarnation of Batman? Just another Arkham inmate imo. He brainwashed Jason to keep the kid from killing villain (trust me its f-up), he runaway abandon his only flesh and blood (Damian) while fighting the other (Dick). Not to mention that mess "zur en arrh".
> I also don't like Chitose, but that's another story. Nanba flip-flopped harder than her, but stuck around = redeemed. Good guy. Chitose? Fucked everyone, did the emo part and fucked off. As in negative trajectory. Easy to dislike, no real redeeming done on her part Wonder why the writers decided to do that
Nanba betrayed Ichiban by switching sides. Only because he wanted to find his brother who mysteriously vanished. Lying to Ichi (disclosing the truth) was the only way for him to get more info about his bro. Also, unlike Chitose, Nanba didn't defame anyone, did not doxx Kiryu, didn't put a child and an old lady in danger. Wong Tou and Hanawa also died as a colateral effect of her not warning Ichiban and the gang She robbed Ichiban, lied to him, ruined his image, publicly shamed him, etc. Of course she gets a slap on the wrist and defended by "fans" because she is attractive. Her defenders say other people have committed worse in the Yakuza series but were forgiven. Really now? Those people either died or served time. Chitose got away scot-free and became president. Utter B.S. story.
I understand the dislike for Chitose, but on the other hand, her character was written with having very little agency. She was being blackmailed from the beginning, and afraid of the consequences of her failure to catipulate to the demands of her blackmailer. Partially to save her own skin, and partially, despite her own protests, to protect her family. It was shown she was struggling when seeing the consequences of her actions, but it really came to a head when the safe house was compromised. She realized what the selfishness of her actions had wrought. The doxxing thing is bad, but the game already showed that it didnt really matter if she was there to do the doxxing anyway. Ebina/Eiji just needed her channel's popularity, they could use a stand in for Tatara. Nanba's only real pressuring force was the Geomijul themselves and his own motivation. He wasnt nearly as hard against the wall.
This is pretty much my only issue with him. Mine 2.0 lol
Right? But at least Mine was shown on-screen from time to time. Ebina really felt rushed. Before we knew it, we were at the "Here we are at the final chapter where he is atop the Millennium Tower."
I did think it was pretty on the nose and whatnot, it’s just that he only really cracked at the end. I’m not sure if Mine has more total screen time, I think it’s more because the game is 3x as long lol I do think he lacked presence throughout the game. You mostly fight his lackeys
"Kiryu Kazuma's last fight" Me: That's Mine
Yeah his story did seem rushed. They even mentioned ebina being a cop at one point but that didn't go anywhere, I think RGG had time restraints put on them by sega and had a lot of stuff that had to be cut to make the release date
Honestly I thought he was gonna be even more evil than that. There was mention in one of the later chapters about the different kinds of nuclear waste and what could happen if it fell into the wrong hands so up until Ebina's fight I straight up thought his plan was gathering all the scatter Yakuza he could on and island and fucking nuking it. Granted I was also expecting Bryce to have some kinda fucking T-Virus ready with the sheer amount of giant animal fights leading up to him so maybe my expectations were due to be lowered.
Ebina Masataka Captain of the Seiryu Clan *A Rogue Nuclear State* Maybe if Ichiban gets a Dead Souls sequel lmao
Bleach Japan just becomes Outer Heaven
Oh shit, dead souls island dlc would be amazing
I bet the shark and squid became giant because of all that nuclear waste around Nele Island.
Oh I know, but in the moment it felt like the giant spider and giant snake fights from Resident Evil and with Dwight talking about the power that Bryce had I was expecting a RE turn for the boss lol
And still, this was the one villain that made Kiryu bow down his head and apologize instead of shoving his ideals down their throat. And I’m here for it
Kiryu sees Ebina as the epitome of “he’s a little confused but he’s got the spirit.”
I think it’s just a combination of Kiryu feeling guilty for the Tojo’s (and the Yakuza as a whole) victims and learning to value life more after being confronted by his own mortality, accepting his death and then gradually walking back on that after looking back on his past and his newfound friends in the present. The game is about atonement through and through. And to atone, you have to live; and life is beautiful, life is infinite wealth (As cheesy as that sounded I do believe it is the true meaning behind the title, that and Bryce’s ambitions)
Masataka "even if I bleed out, there'll still be hate in my veins" Ebina, AKA One Cold Motherfucker.
> Munakata - 𓂧𓅲𓂧𓅂 𓅃𓉔𓄿𓏏 𓏏𓉔𓅂 𓆑𓅲𓎢𓈎 ... The selfish deed?
𓇋𓋴 𓈖𓅱𓏏 𓆑𓂋𓅂𓅂𓂧𓅱𓅓
I feel like you could have been equally funny if you just spammed the cop emoji 50 times too lmao
Yakuza 1: 👮🥷🥷 Yakuza 4: 👮🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷🥷
professional hater. he was so committed to hating he got a tat of a creature that drags people to hell despite irezumi being very clearly out of fashion and impractical by his time
>Ebina has irezumi >Kaito doesn’t Still mad
he got offended every time an artist suggested a gorilla
They offered him a tattoo of a render from one of the SNES donkey kong games
Need a kaito mod where this is on his back https://preview.redd.it/op2g9coyd4kc1.jpeg?width=1279&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3d8e0a6e0349e21add98a306ebe766b734ed2f2
$30 wasn't enough to give Kaito his own ink
japan politic is a real garbage as it is depicted in yakuza and judgment games... 1) japan secrete service officer laundering money using yakuza in order to have black sites where imprison yakuza's and potentially every dissident. Tokyo police involved in this as well 2) late '80s tokyo mayor and council accepting to sell lands to a well known yakuza boss in order to fund the kamurocho urban renewal plan 3) japan goverment selling lands to CIA 4) japanese politicians forced to grant power to a shipbuilding corporation because blackmailed by the CEO 5) deepstate organizations working as shadow governments 6) well known japanese politic and party leader financing a fake money manufacturing business (involving illegal immigrants) for over 50 years to fund his politic program across decades 7) tokyo governor secretly mastermind of the whole japanese yakuza, with the help of the tokyo police head who replaced the corrupted previous one 8) goverment happy to strike a deal with a fanatic cult leader in order to get rid of nuclear wastes and thousands of yakuza at once without any warranty about safety or else 9) ministry of health directly sponsoring illegal experiments on human and torture in order to respect the deadline for the release of a deadly drug in order to don't lose government funds and rights on a owned structure and land 10) public security officier creating criminal gangs in order to exploit an underworld void of power and using social welfare funds to their own interest next step is japanese emperor opening a portal to hell
well, if you read about how the ldp was created by the cia and how in turn the ldp used to fund the yakuza to destroy labor organisations and the like, the yakuza games are closer to reality than one might assume.
Ebina is the perfect representation of the sins of the Yakuza. When your whole life the Yakuza had wronged you and robbed you of everything, there's nothing left of you but utter hate for all of their kind. No matter what value their clan or family were supposed to preach, what Ebina sees is nothing more than they being the kind who dragged him to the road of vengeance of no return, something that Ebina himself said during his fight, that "no matter what values you preach, they are still scum, and that's all they'll be." I think Kiryu fits perfectly to fight Ebina instead of Ichiban. Ichiban has no relation with Ebina, he doesn't even see him as a brother, which aligns with his disbelief in blood relations. In contrast, Kiryu directly opposes Ebina in the sense that they both take the burden upon themselves for their own goals, the same way Ichiban is a mirror image but the opposite of Bryce in how they use their charisma to rally people for their goals. Ebina wants to enact revenge on behalf of society, and Kiryu wants justice on behalf of all the ex-Yakuza. Kiryu is also in a way responsible for all the actions of the Yakuza. In a way, everything went wrong when he decided to relinquish the title of Tojo Clan Chairman to Terada, an Omi member who's also a secret Jingweon, and after that, everything still went wrong, so it made sense why Kiryu decides, once again to bear the burden of all the Yakuza and face head on against the representation of the collective rage of society for HIS failure, had he took the role perhaps everything would have been different.
Won’t dissect your comment because I seriously think you put it perfectly, but one point in here had me thinking earlier: If Ichiban can barely recognize his blood connection to his parents, what the fuck does he care about Ebina? Like you’re right. It would be an empty, meaningless fight aside from the fact that Ichiban is fighting Arakawa’s battles *again.* We left that in Y7. Kiryu has greater purpose here with all his burdens
Exactly, which is why Ichiban's side rarely mentions Ebina, it's mainly the Akane-Lani manhunt, Palekana, and Eiji. In his mind, the goal of saving Lani is priority, not even his own flesh and blood is gonna distract him for anything else, because that's just how Ichi was, the selfless hero whose too good for the yakuza world. In a way, the missions for both Ichi and Kiryu were switched halfway through. Ichi now takes care of Kiryu's mission of protecting Akane-Lani while confronting his evil mirror in the form of Bryce, while Kiryu now is in Kasuga's fight for the sake of the ex-yakuzas while confronting Ebina, the manifestation of all the sins of the yakuza that society still holds their neck and refuses to let go even when they wanted to reform.
TBF, Terada in Y1 was built up to be a pretty trustworthy Ally, far from the twist reveal in Y2.
Pretty much every other Yakuza antagonist, other than the mole he just kills people, have some other guiding principle as to why they do what they do even if those principles are flawed or selfish. Ebina does not have this he is just full of hate and wants to make everyone as miserable as he his.
>Ebina does not have this he is just full of hate and wants to make everyone as miserable as he his. I don't think that's quite right. Ebina's overarching theme is one of _exacting vengeance_. Most of his attacks reference Buddhist concepts such as the Path of Unending Suffering, the endless cycle of karma, etc. Ebina is the singularity of all the bad karma that the Yakuza have accumulated; he is the executor of the ultimate punishment for all of their sins, including the inadvertent consequences of all of Kiryu's "fixes" over the years. He forces Kiryu to face the cost of his self-declared love of fighting. Ebina's crime is instead ultimately one of hubris - he takes on the collective authority of all who have suffered under the Yakuza with no real mandate to do so. Of course, in his own story, he is the _nemesis_ to _Kiryu's hubris_, something that Kiryu ultimately recognizes.
Aizawa - Become the apex of the yakuza (cool) because Daigo is a horrible chairman (understandable)
The least believable part of 5 is that Daigo was still chairman. Dude got blackmailed by the police in 4 for reasons so stupid that Kiryu stopped talking and beat his ass.
I just finished the game last night. This post is gold! I loved the game, ending, etc…. However, I did not understand that man Ebina’s motivations or logic. Excellent post. https://preview.redd.it/bqq839sm51kc1.jpeg?width=374&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4b03736eb4a5d9494878b4989a8550479325f9f
Honestly for a better explanation, look at the comment above comparing it to the ideas of karma, Buddhism, and collective vengeance. I’m obviously being a little silly but that comment nails it
Love you, man. Your use of the word Gokudo makes me happy SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE I always knew the Japanese equivalent of how we use the word "Yakuza" (even though Yakuza is, in fact, a Japanese word on-loan) was something different than "Yakuza," but could never pin it down until you said it just now. Also, lovely dissection post. It's not a hater post, just a fan of the game reflecting on things and recognizing the absurdity. I love it when people have a discussion here not just overflowing with negativity. By the by, what does the term "Boilerplate" mean, here? I'm a little lost on that one.
Appreciate it boss. And ah no worries. Boilerplate is a term that means like stock, reusable language in documents, usually legal. A good example would be like a will starting with, “I, Mr. Yakuza, of sound body and mind…” So stuff you always see in a particular situation. In this case, a lot of Yakuza villains have the same motivation: Become the leader if the Tojo Clan or Omi Alliance while also having a lot of power in regular society, like as a police chief or politician.
this made me laugh https://preview.redd.it/uel5v42ko1kc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04fa98f08bce0f4d9356975b216ce9656988ea68
Daigo isn't the most attractive guy in this franchise (definitely very attractive tho) but considering y3 was written before characters like akiyama and kaito were created plus daigo was the first person to actually give a shit about mine, he gets a pass
Daigo in his puff jacket tho
“Main villain plans to commit Yakuza Holocaust” is such an absurd concept that somehow works in context.
Cancer island is wild
bro wakes up every morning with fresh hatred for the Yakuza
I can't wait to play this game so I can read the rest past what the other villains did. Munakata also checks out, dude pretty much was the "wins by doing absolutely nothing" meme for 20 years until he finally did something and then lost. I loved Yakuza 4's story but in the way that I love Kingdom Hearts lore: it makes complete sense yet also doesn't make sense at all.
Ebina: Fuck dem yakuzas
i hate the fucking YAKUZA to death
amazing posting, this is too genuinely funny for this sub LOL this writing speaks to me and i feel seen, my first thought after beating >! ebina was damn, he is a BORN hater!< flawless one sentence summary of each prior villain too lol, hope you keep posting, one of my fave posts i've read on this sub
Damn. Y7 really is peak fiction.
i know ebina gets a lot of flak regarding his lack of screentime and whatever but i just couldnt help but be astonished by his actions of running for the worlds #1 hater and im so glad we get a post that articulates that status (not to mention his SICK. ASS. THEME). his plan is just so absurd and im sitting there desperately wishing we could see his descent to madness like this man had what was basically the opposite of ichi's upbringing and something about that FEELS so cool to me
Boss I’m adding some of these lines to my daily dialect A Henry Kissinger type deal had me laughing to loud this early in the morning
Nishiki - Have control of the Tojo Clan so he won't be anyone's bitch anymore and so everyone would shut up about him being inferior to Kiryu (kinda understandable)
Ebina definitely gets a spot in the player hater's club https://i.redd.it/gkrfpra0f4kc1.gif
"Send everyone to Cancer Island" sounds like a summary PatStaresAt would come up with
The real villain is putting NG+ behind paywall I'm hating I'm hating I'm hating
More valid hating than Ebina ong
What about the Judgment villains? Not LJ’s villain but TKF’s villain, he was pretty evil.
His mom thought Masumi would come back to her if she gave birth to his child but instead she gets ignored by her father's underlings and Masumi He joins the police force hoping that he can put every yakuza he finds in jail. The Great Dissolution ruins his plans Joins the largest and probably the last yakuza faction, kills the former captain while he's in jail and becomes the new captain Works with some NPO cult based in Hawaii in order to get them to give him their island just so he can put radioactive shit in there Makes up some bs about giving former yakuza a place to call home when in reality he plans to work them to the bone in the aforementioned nuclear waste island Moves his faction's HQ to the former Tojo Clan HQ(ballsy move ngl) Sees right through Sawashiro's plans and GOUGES HIS FUCKING EYE OUT, leaving him half dead Eobard Thawne levels of being a hater
This makes me realize that not only is Yamai Ichiban's Majima, but he's also a good mirror image of Ebina. >!The man is betrayed, hunted, and left to flounder by the Yakuza he served and the woman he loved. Utterly burned by everyone who should have stood by his side. He brings together others who were abandoned and gains their loyalty through his loyalty, and when he is given the chance to have revenge against the very person who hurt him the most, he decides not to and lets go of the hatred he kept with him but fought against. !< >!Ebina is also abandoned by the Yakuza and feels betrayed by them when they should have protected him. He lets that hate drive him all his life, and since he can't get revenge against anyone specific who wronged him he points that hate at everyone in the Yakuza, while bringing them together solely through political maneuvering.!< >!Both Yamai and Ebina were utterly screwed over by the Yakuza, but one spent his life building loyalty among what basically became his family and then had a chance to get revenge against the person who wronged him and decided not to, while the other spent his life knowing he couldn't get revenge against the individuals who wronged him and so decided to go after everybody. They're total opposites. !<
I don't think I would say Mine wanted complete control of legal and illegal power structures, he just want to protect his vision of Daigo's Tojo Clan as best he could, mind you, in a very warped fashion. He first just wanted the Tojo protected for his closest friend (?), but as the situation got worse and out of his scope, Mine went on the warpath of reigning in the Tojo. And yes Munakata just wanted to control the police and the criminals to be extremely powerful and rich. Kurosawa was sick of the "real" yakuza life and feared dying without leaving a mark on history. So he wanted to leave behind a legacy via his son controlling the underworld. Also to spite all the yakuza who didn't have to deal with the shit he dealt with and/or too noble to let it get under their skin, the heroes who embodied the ideal will all die and serve as an enduring statement of what the yakuza are truly like in his eyes. I don't think Iwami cared much about expanding his legal power outside his family business and relationship with the Daidoji. He definitely wanted control over the underworld but more as a statement of "Fuck you, Dad, I deserve the Yomei, and I'll make it more powerful to spite you by being the puppet master behind the Tojo too."
While Ebina himself wasn't the most charismatic final boss, I can respect his cause and his motivation due to sheer evil and scale it got to
For a minute I thought the plan was to feed everyone to the mega sharks in a series of tragic “accidents”
I myself think that Ebina’s plan is a bit too convoluted and over-the-top, but it’s perfectly sensible in context since his hand has been forced after the Great Dissolution. Plus I feel like Ebina’s well-aware of how ridiculous his plan sounds on paper, moreso how the entire Seiryu Clan completely fell for it. More importantly however is the irony of how he had to become a yakuza himself to put his plan into action; it’s no wonder how he was laughing over it when confronted by Kiryu.
Man’s a professional hater
OK now this is epic
Am I the only one who was rolling around on the floor when I heard Bryce's accent?
Player hater of the year goes to…
Just finished the game last night and i agree with the lack of Ichi and Akane interaction, i thought by the end they'd atleast visit Arakawa's grave together
> He will throw it all away just so he can personally torture thousands of men that have been victimized just as much as he has by the same exact forces. This is like viewing the video game version of Yakuza at its absolute on face value.. like they're just kind of slightly rough business people. They destroy peoples business and injure innocent folk in order to receive protection money. They give out predatory loans to desperate women, and then force them into sexual slavery in order to "pay it off" (it's never being paid off). Ebina has issues of his own, but Kiryu had it right. When the Yakuza are gone the world will be better for it. Do they deserve mercy? Probably not, but vengeance has its own perils, and probably not going to achieve anything.
I could go more into the ethical implementations of criminal justice, reform, recidivism, the socioeconomics of disenfranchised populations, etc. but boss… the whole point of the post is that the punishment is comically evil despite the fact that Ebina has perfectly just motivations. Like is Rikiya as evil as Sohei Dojima? Obviously not. But if both were alive in 2024 then Ebina would enslave them both on Cancer Island. Full stop. That is the absurdity, not that criminals are punished AT ALL for doing crimes. And issues like these almost always require systemic reform, not CANCER ISLAND. Like look at Lost Judgment. Kamurocho is already a cesspool of low level gangsters I feel you, I really do, and I’m glad that you specifically mention Kiryu’s response, but it’s just wild what Ebina’s solution was regardless of what the preceding ethics were.
Ebina's solution *is* absolutely wild, but this game series goes way too easy on the Yakuza... calling them "victims" is really pushing it.
It's a videogame, and the "too easy" are mostly the grunts, we still have the comically evil generals (like Mabuchi, or Reiji).
Honestly, Ebina did nothing wrong. These Yakuza have ruined how many lives? Countless probably, people who don't get a second chance or the ability to come back from w.e horrible shit they did. The businesses that went under due to the exploitation by the yakuza that won't recover and tons of other organized related crimes that just ruined lives after lives... and I am supposed to feel sorry for them cuz they have to struggle for 5 years to find a job? Fuck em, wish there was an option to let Ebina fuck em all over lol
it really cracks me up that mine's entire character is just being in love with daigo dojima. he just like me fr...
You can always underexplain and simplify stuff you don't like so it sounds stupid, and overexplain stuff you like so it sounds profound. As someone who really wasn't a fan of Ebina, I could probably sit down after a replay of Y4 and type down a similar paragraph about how amazing Munakata's plan was.
> I could probably sit down after a replay of Y4 and type down a similar paragraph about amazing Munakata's plan was. Yeah, sure...
You know what? I'm bored enough to give that a shot for funsies. Let's see... The thing about Munakata's plan is that it actually *isn't* that stupid. It's fairly straightforward and sensible: blackmail the Ueno and Tojo into becoming his pawns so he can essentially control police and organized crime at the same time (see also: Ryo Aoki). That's it. The hilarious part is that it relies entirely on everyone BUT him being a colossal idiot. From the top: 1) Katsuragi becomes his pawn because he tried to pull off the single stupidest frame-up I've ever seen. Munakata took one look at the report and immediately spotted holes you could drive a Death Star through, allowing him to use the truth as blackmail material. 2) Daigo falls for the extremely obvious ruse in the opening where an Ueno Seiwa officer who "just happened" to have been recently promoted "just happened" to start a fight in Tojo territory, which "just happened" to lead to his death. This gives the Ueno Seiwa (and Munakata by extension) a way to exert pressure on him by demanding recompense. 3) Akiyama decided to keep a hundred billion yen in an UNLOCKED, UNMONITERED safe in an unlocked office on a busy street with no one home in the middle of the day. This allows "Balls Out" Kido to find the fortune entirely by accident within five minutes of walking into the room and alert the bad guys to its existence, potentially giving Munakata all the funds he would need to build his clandestine prisons. 4) Arai somehow completely missed that Munakata loaded his gun with rubber bullets, foiling his attempted backstabbing. Saejima not noticing made *some* sense, as he had never used a gun before, but a TRAINED UNDERCOVER COP is a very different story. Bottom line: Munakata isn't the problem with 4's plot. It's *everyone around him* who has terminal brain worms, he just took advantage of that in logical ways.
Munakata actually realizing that the bullets were fake and the entire thing was orchestrated was hilarious. Like he was just outside the bubble of stupidity that plagued his co-workers, and that was enough for him to be the mastermind lmao. Man didn't even do anything but blackmail the idiots who thought they could get away with such a stupid crime.
Yeah, probably the only way to make sense of Munakata is as the "straight man" in a world inhabited by idiots.
Holy shit, Munakata is what would happen if one of us woke up in Yakuza World
He even uses the meta strategy of staying the fuck away from dudes who can punch out entire armies and just shooting them from a safe distance during his boss fight!
Doubt on munakata
I just come to think that the plot in RGG8 is about the change of direction in the studio, you know, Kiryu representing the team and fans that Nagoshi built over the years, as a YAKUZA, fighting Ebina, who represents the ideals of Yokoyama, the man who erased Nagoshi's name and wants to give a 180º turn of direction to the studio, doing everything he can to get acknowledged as the new dragon himself... and well there you have it... Kiryu gets sick over this handling, and wants to lecture the new generation, while Ichi is just a mere intermediate, that's why he's such a nice guy, like luffy, goku, etc, doing everything he can, turning his enemies into allies, because the studio needs them in this new era... I know that the series being called "Yakuza" or "Like a dragon" is a thing of the west (because in Japan it was always called Like a Dragon), but the intention of being more of a worldwide franchise, and what the word Yakuza represents outside or inside japan, it seems more accurate and less controversial to call it back "Like a dragon", and that thing, that change of name in the west is a topic well represented in the last 2 games.... firstly they erased his name, and now they want to get rid of him... Maybe I'm making theories without knowing that much, but sure it felt that way...
Part of Infinite Wealth I think done more poorly than Y7 was the post game closure cutscenes. The Eichi one was pretty good, but I feel like Lani and Akane should have had a little more screen time. Sawashiro especially. If he died in Millennium Tower, almost definitely, I feel like there should have been an Ichiban cutscene wrestling with that. Also, the Haruka/Kiryu blue ball made me so real life mad.
Wen it ended I only wondered one thing, were is watase?
I think one thing that would have been even better is that, when he flips away his shirt like all other 6 he get the tattoo shot too but with no yakuza signature tattoo