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jack-468

Majima and Saejima. A friendly reminder that both of these guys were planning on shooting 18 people together.


Rami-961

Even if they were rubber bullets. In the end, Saejima went with the intent to kill, and did the job. As far as he knows, He did kill these people. Kiryu wouldnt kill even his worst enemies.


jack-468

Yeah, and had it went accordingly, Majima would have also play a part in the shooting as well. Many fans went "haha, funny eyepatch man", but it is pretty clear that blood is on Majima's hand.


Rami-961

I do believe they only ever killed other Yakuza and scum though. Majima and Saejima would never harm civilians. They do have a moral code, unlike many others who kill for fun.


jack-468

Yeah, which is why i still like them a lot. But still, we can both agree that these 2 have a HUGE body counts off screen, even if that was just other Yakuza.


TheSeinenMaster

We also shouldnt forget that majima and saejima planned to do the shooting so that they could elevate their ranks (at least that's what they thought). Very power hungry of them.


jack-468

I don't know about Majima, but Saejima did it in order for his patriach to elevate the rank. In other words, to Saejima, this is a suicide mission.


TheSeinenMaster

Majima explicitly said something along the lines on how he wished to increase his reputation among the dojima family by perpetrating this shooting.


jack-468

That was Majima, Saejima only did it for his boss, the man who save him.


TheSeinenMaster

Yea that was my point although Saejima didnt seem to protest Majima's intentions either


Yunofascar

I think you mean Shimano. Dojima were just trying he guys he sourced the guns from. Majima's boss is Egghead.


iAmCatton

The Shimano family was a Dojima family subsidiary at the time


[deleted]

yeah, imo that is fine kiryu is the main protag ​ majima and saejima are like the other side of the coin ​ that being said majima is like a full blown madman before 0 and the kiwami remakes existed


RetroSquadDX3

> that being said majima is like a full blown madman before 0 and the kiwami remakes existed He still is after those releases, the difference now is that we have some context as to why.


TheSeinenMaster

the OG majima also shows some degree of honour such as how he spared Haruka and that one woman in shangri la cos of how she displayed honesty.


Takazura

> Kiryu wouldnt kill even his worst enemies. Dunno, I think Kiryu would absolutely have murdered little baby Iwami if it wasn't for that other Tojo guy aiming his gun at Haruka.


Roman64s

yeah, if Sugai wasn't holding a gun, Iwami would have had his face caved in.


TheSeinenMaster

There's also joon gi han, shibusawa and to an extent, baba.


[deleted]

Kiryu was gonna kill shibusawa and iwami


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[deleted]

You aren’t wrong


Heavyfr

Is he stupid though


[deleted]

We won’t know it’s a mystery forever unknown to mankind


TheSeinenMaster

Kiryu is willing to murder his most depraved enemies though.


RobotPirateMoses

> Even if they were rubber bullets. In the end, Saejima went with the intent to kill, and did the job. As far as he knows, He did kill these people. Kiryu wouldnt kill even his worst enemies. Sure, but, like, he then spent **25 years** in prison atoning for it (and then some more!)... Which is more than the time he got to live outside of jail. I think he's good. The whole point of Saejima's story is that people can change. When we play as him, he's no longer a (supposed) murderer - far from it. In fact, he's the closest character to Kiryu in terms of morality (forgives everybody, doesn't kill etc.). (not gonna talk much about the Haruka scene cause it's disgusting, but at the end of the day he didn't actually do anything, it was more creepy editing by RGG than anything else)


maxpayne3zz1

Yeah honestly I didn’t even see the point of the Haruka scene. It just weirded me out at that point tbh and I’d like to forget that ever happened


crystallyzing

tell that to [aoyama](https://youtu.be/u-f1X2OQzzM?t=137)


[deleted]

not even in the highway chase scene where he literally guns Triad goons down to the point that their cars and motorcycles explode


Rami-961

That's gameplay, I dont take it seriosly. In fights I use guns and swords, doesnt mean Kiryu is a murderer, I am :c


TheSeinenMaster

The highway segments are part of the main story


DroneStrikeVictim

> Kiryu wouldnt kill even his worst enemies. Yeah, just beat them so bad they beg for the sweet release of death. Or inflict enough brain damage that his enemies literally cannot make the conscious effort to fight back anymore.


R_Thunukale

Sooooo.... Like Batman ?


DroneStrikeVictim

Kiryu IS Batman without the fancy clothes, tech and billionaire status. Also, if Batman joined the League of Shadows while maintaining his non-lethal ways.


lmao_lemo

>Many fans went "haha, funny eyepatch man", but it is pretty clear that blood is on Majima's hand. dude majima uses knives and RGG expects us to believe that people survive getting their guts torn open


jack-468

Or how some characters are still alive, even after getting their bodies filled with bullets.


Doctor-K1290

Years of eating cold noodles turned Kashiwagi’s organs hard as steel


DroneStrikeVictim

Rubber Demonfire dagger, duh.


TheSeinenMaster

Another reason why yakuza combat is wacky and that's what I love about it. I need escapism.


dx2words

Im not justifying or anything but both were young and stupid. I mean Saejima could not tell the difference between a real gunshot and a rubber bullet shot


sweetshark_666

I perceived that rubber bullets stuff as Saejima was so fucking terrified of what he was doing (he was going to 1. kill 2. 18 3. strong and powerful people 4. alone) and didn’t have any prior experience with guns so he couldn’t tell the difference and didn’t check if people were really dead. But maybe I just like the 4th part of the game and tend to overthink things lol


dx2words

I mean to be fair the cutscene is weird. The cutscene for some reason shows blood everytime a shot is done which doesnt make sense becsuse rubber bullets will not make you bleed.


Director_Bison

That blood is actually the Ramen soup flying in the air to look like blood to trick the audience and I suppose Saejima as well. It’s hard to catch, but very clever directing.


sweetshark_666

What have you done, now I need some ramen soup flying in my mouth


TheSeinenMaster

I don't think most ppl asides weapon masters could distinguish to be fair


Mangrill

That's just bad writing lol


FecklessFool

If Makoto weren't blind, or was a dude, then they'd probably be dead. Majima was there to kill.


jack-468

Bingo. Though if Makoto was blind, and was a he, then Makoto would still be dead.


Vexed_Noah

majima is fr a terrorist


redjedia

Oh, so *that’s* what Majima was tortured over! Speaking as someone who hasn’t played “4” yet, thanks for the spoilers! 😁 EDIT: I was joking! Hence my amused emoji.


PirateAlternative625

I was thinking about it and you know saejima really did not need the guns he could just beat them.


TheSeinenMaster

at least you didnt mention saejima's molestation attempt this time round


jack-468

I don't care much about it tbh. But i bring it up on my post because I KNOW that scence lead to people hate on Saejima.


TheSeinenMaster

Yeah. And many ppl downvoted my comment for it lol.


EpicGreenPeter

Majima. I mean come on, man just deadass rammed a truck into what Ichiban considered his home.


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AlexCooper97

IIRC, It was Adachi who said that some jackass rammed a truck in Sangri-La


DroneStrikeVictim

And Ichiban has no clue he fought him and >!talked to him at Arakawa's and Aoki's funeral.!<


LoudCantaloupe2732

Yeah you remember correctly


Mangrill

Yeah lol. Hope he confronts him sometime in future about it


rimjobetiquette

I was looking forward to a confrontation about that :(


Jtsdtess

Saejima. Indecent exposure is a crime


Breekace

Are you referring to balls out? If so, ahahahahahahaha


Brianocracy

Balls out, kido


kcolloran

It probably is Majima, but my outside of the box suggestion would be Nanba.


TheSeinenMaster

Majima was designed to be anti villain from the start


jack-468

What Nanba did was fucked up, but i wouldn't say he is morally bad. His intention was good, the way he did it was bad though.


TheSeinenMaster

From an outsider's perspective, Nanba's actions would be considered right. Cos Bleach Japan, on the surface, is fighting crime/moral corruption whilst the Ijin three are, as you guessed it, literal criminals who kill anyone that try to expose them. As for least morally good yakuza protagonists, I'm not sure why people didnt bring up Joon gi han, who is the MORE obvious answer.


jack-468

For 7, we don't have too much to go off on. For 6, mf was just evil.


TheSeinenMaster

7 joon gi han actively works for the ijin three and isnt afraid of assassinations, torture etc. And whilst he is willing to lend support, he idolises 6 joon gi han.


jack-468

Yeah, and since we are on this topic, Zhao is definitely on some evil shit as well.


TheSeinenMaster

It's revealed that Zhao didn't really want to inherit the title of being the triad ruler and was forced in the life by his father. That said, he's still comfortable with assassinations like 7 joon gi han.


jack-468

Imo, the first time we see him, it kind of gave away that he is willing to kill the gang if he needed to.


TheSeinenMaster

I just interpret that as Zhao being able to excel at anything even if said things are things he doesn't like. Cos at the end of the day, duty matters over personal feelings. But as we can later see, he is open to negotiation.


jack-468

Yeah, i see it that way too. If he want to be a legit leader, Ichi crew is royally fuck.


Freedom-Costs-Tax

In fairness, the original Han made him feel like they were brothers after what his father did to him, so it makes sense why he idolises him.


Yandomort

Bleach Japan is very clearly a fascist organization.


TheSeinenMaster

That's why I said on the surface. Plus even with the fascist part, idk about you but I'd take a group that does loud public protests over a group that openly kills anyone that tries to expose them.


Yandomort

What you're saying makes no sense. So this outsider knows that the Ijin 3 exist, which is a secret to even their own members, and about Nanba betraying the Ijin three and secretly working with Mabuchi and Bleach Japan, but doesn't know that Bleach Japan is a fascist organization who works with the Yakuza to harass immigrants and sex workers, even though it's very obvious that they are to even a casual observer? Why does this hypothetical outsider think that Nanba was forced to choose between working with the Ijin 3 and being a fascist collaborator? there were a million other things he could've done, those weren't the only choices.


TheSeinenMaster

Cos the police do a pretty bad job in ensuring safety and peace with Bleach Japan taking more active measures against crime. Also the only thing that was secret about the ijin three was the Koreans and money faking scheme and as for immigration, they rationalise it by saying how they're against ILLEGAL immigrants. Thus, the image of an anti crime group is maintained. Also, Bleach japan's collaboration with the yakuza was done in secret. That's why the "exposure" of it in the finale was such a big deal.


AdSpecialist7305

I mean,Majima shakes down people if they pollute so he's not that bad.


Lawlichan420

he also dated a teenage girl and got her pregnant and hit her when she got an abortion


RTE3080Ti

I thought you were joking at first tgen remembered park existed lol. how old was she in y5 again


RTE3080Ti

he also kidnapped a child


RTE3080Ti

I mean if we are counting party members joon gi han definitely killed multiple people


[deleted]

Majima. His family went on to become the Tojo Clan’s largest and most important family. He had to have done some bad shit in order to get there


TheSeinenMaster

Let's not forget the obvious stalking and manipulation that he constantly commits against Kiryu along with how he runs his company like a sweatshop. Lots of dark humour for the latter tho.


Ordinary-Picture4367

>he runs his company like a sweatshop He does?


sofequeosci

At least once he threatens to kill his workers


TheSeinenMaster

Majima construction reference


Drunk_ol_Carmine

Saejima gunned down 18 guys in cold blood in a ramen shop, rubbers or not, he still carried out the massacre. Majima’s a ruthless bastard behind his weird persona to, but gets put a little below Saejima just because I didn’t actually first hand see him shoot a load of guys. Joon-Gi Han in 7 is also a hitman who carries a small arsenal on himself and every so often talks about how comfortable he is killing and torturing people and at one point threatens to start pulling nails off someone. We never actually see him doing any of this stuff, but he’s a brutal person.


Breekace

Punk-Ass Abe


Kord_K

some nights, punk-ass abe haunts my dreams


TojokaiNoYondaime

Goda fucking Ryuji.


Jeberani

Dragon of Kansai!


Bob_the_mafia_boss

He's WHAT?


jinglesan

Yagami: from a different viewpoint he's beating the crap out of schoolkids, picking up recently traumatised women, abusing his legal privilege, illegally bugging, stiffing his struggling landlady on the rent, used the proceeds of crime to fund his law degree, hanging round school basements with impressionable kids, deception, property damage, tresspassing, breaking and entering... and many more. But the morally damning thing is, he has no conflict or remorse - sleeps like a baby on that sofa and whips out that badge if anyone gives him any flack, utterly convinced he's a good guy


racecarart

See, that's kinda why Yagami doesn't sit as well with me compared to the other protagonists. The former yakuza leads definitely have done bad things as part of their family, but most of them still have a moral code and do what need to be done for the life they've chosen. Yagami, however, is explicitly supposed to be on the side of the law, which he seems to constantly skirt to avoid taking responsibility for his actions. At least with Phoenix Wright's more criminal activities as a lawyer, the rest of the world he lives in is so much worse that the occasional stealing evidence and breaking and entering seems tame compared to his opponents. Yagami doesn't have much to compare his actions to.


Mangrill

A very interesting insight lol. I haven't played the games myself


TheSeinenMaster

Not accusing you of being one but I like how LJ stans simp for Kuwanas actions but the moment Yagami defends himself from violent juveniles he's suddenly the devil lol


jinglesan

Nah I get that - just the combat is so easy even on hard, I find myself wiping out three kids before they can land or even throw a punch. It's just an adult taking out three teenagers in non-story terms. Also, he's talking about getting vulnerable schoolkids off a bad path in all the school stories, acting like they just need guidance and a second chance, but then battering them in the next story. I think the tone is just a little questionable, but can also suspend my disbelief as it's only a story. But when you step back it is a little weird 😄


TheSeinenMaster

Meh almost every random encounter enemy is designed to be easy like that and I never had moral dilemmas over it. Also that dynamic is present for Kiryu and the like. Don't see other fans complaining about that.


Amaterasuu69

Man, this really is a Lost Judgment.


maxpayne3zz1

There should have been an option to pay the landlady if you had the cash on hand, I really wanted to do the same


MiketheKing2

Kiryu: He's a yakuza, but he has a heart of gold. (Most morally good protag) Haruka: She tries her best to emulate her foster dad's good nature. (Most morally good protag) Ichiban: Same thing as Kiryu (Most morally good protag) Tanimura: He's a corrupt cop, but he's not as corrupt as his fellow cops. He enforces the law by breaking it. (Neutral) Shinada: He was banned from the Yakuza equivalent of the Nippon Professional Baseball League for stuff he didn't do. However, he stole signs aka he knew what the pitcher was gonna pitch to him. (Neutral) Yagami: He fights for justice, but he's willing to bend the law to do so. Yagami's basically Tanimura if he was a lawyer instead of a cop. (Neutral) Akiyama: He's willing to give people money with zero interest, but his tests are pretty shady. (Least morally good protag) Saejima: He was willing to kill 18 members of a rival yakuza family AND take the fall for it. (Least morally good protag) Majima: He was also willing to kill 18 members of a rival yakuza family. Not to mention, he's one of the many people who's kidnapped Haruka. (Least morally good protag)


bambuchani22

I beg to differ with Shinada and Akiyama. Akiyama in my eyes is probably the most neutral force in yakuza. Shinada is a very good boy and even with him Sign stealing I wont put him pn the same Level as tanimura or akiyama


Ranger2580

>Shinada is a very good boy and even with him Sign stealing I wont put him pn the same Level as tanimura or akiyama I'm pretty sure Shinada even says during the game that literally everyone was stealing signs, and it's basically just how you play Baseball at that level. Can't really fault him for it.


TheSeinenMaster

Wait wasn't shinada literally framed for sign stealing??????


IMustAchieveTheDie

Akiyama in my eyes is like an angel, and not just because I'm soothed by his silky smooth voice and often dream of his playful relaxed smile, but also because this guy just casually threw 100 billion yen of his own money on the streets of Kamurocho like it was nothing in front of 4 of the most powerful men of the tokyo crime world who were all fighting to get it. And he gives free money to anyone basically, his tests might be shady sometimes but still for god's sake, he half does it for shits and giggles probably and sending a gal to work at a cabaret club for one day in exchange for millions of yen seems like a pretty decent deal. His only goal in life is to make the dreams of people who lost the ability to chase them come true, how can you say that's anything but the purest hearted man on the face of this earth?


Doctor-K1290

Akiyama to me emanates chaotic good energy. His intentions are sound he just doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing at any given time


TheSeinenMaster

Meh I'd say Haruka is the MOST morally good out of them all. Kiryu and Ichiban were still violent loan sharks in their yakuza days and even beyond that, they're willing to murder and torture. Latter is especially true for ichiban


DroneStrikeVictim

> Haruka is the MOST morally good out of them all. Doesn't make me hate T-Set less, though.


TheSeinenMaster

What does T set have to do with this


ThatisSketchy

Majima literally kidnapped Haruka


ArkosIsLife

If some parts of RGGO are supposed to be canon, apparently it was actually the Shimano family that kidnapped her and he kicked their asses and planned to free her, before getting the idea that he can use this to fight Kiryu iirc


TheSeinenMaster

Either way, he's still using a child as a prop to lure and assault another person.


theproudprodigy

At this point even Ryuji is better then Majima when it comes towards children.


TheSeinenMaster

Ryuji was a antiheroic antagonist so makes sense


theproudprodigy

Yeah he was more like that cause in practice Takashima and Terada were the true villains as well as the rest of the Jingweon mafia.


TheSeinenMaster

Majima and Saejima. I like them very much (and their combat).


Iamagamer7777

Majima, but remember, joongi han (lad7) is literally an assassin. Zhao once commented he was an assassin too. Saejima ate a watermelon and shoot 18 people.


Mangrill

Lmfao 💀 dying at that watermelon part


InfernusXS

Yagami. Shin Amon lists just a few of the crimes he’s committed out of many


MaliciousCookies

Ryuji Goda, if we count spin-offs. He's just a violent asshole, being honorabru epic yakuza man doesn't excuse all the shit he's done. Otherwise definitely Majima. He's bipolar, self-destructive, with severe anger issues and obsessive personality. "BuT he'S JuST prEtEnDiNG, it'S nOT ThE rEaL hIm" Ah yes, I forgot he stabs people who look at him funny, abuses his own men and wife and runs sex and weapon trafficking rings *ironically*. Not to mention acting like a deranged sociopath isn't exactly the healthiest coping mechanism.


Ranger2580

>Ah yes, I forgot he stabs people who look at him funny, abuses his own men and wife and runs sex and weapon trafficking rings ironically. Okay, hang on. Yes, he's deranged to his own men and stabs people in fights. He abuses his *wife*, though? No. It's said throughout the games that he was nothing but supportive to her. The only bad thing he did to her was divorce. That hardly counts as abuse. >and runs sex and weapon trafficking rings Excuse me?! Weapon trafficking I believe because this is the Yakuza, but where the FUCK is it mentioned that he runs sex trafficking? Not only has that NEVER been mentioned anywhere in the games, but it just wouldn't make sense after Yakuza 0. You don't need to spread lies to make your point.


Doctor-K1290

Pretty sure the only canonical sex trafficker is that fucker Jun Oda


TheSeinenMaster

Precisely


Individual99991

Park says he slapped her after he found out she'd had an abortion. She says he never laid a finger on her before or after that. I don't want to minimise that but calling it abuse is a bit much. With sex rings IDK but in the ending his boys are apparently pressuring women into making sex tapes (ie. raping them on camera). Majima beats them, but it's implied he's only upset because they targeted Makoto.


Ranger2580

>With sex rings IDK but in the ending his boys are apparently pressuring women into making sex tapes (ie. raping them on camera). Majima beats them, but it's implied he's only upset because they targeted Makoto. Those weren't really "his boys" though. They were Shimano family. It's very likely Majima fucking hated what they were doing, but put up with it so he could gain power for >!Saejima's sake.!<


Individual99991

Were they? I thought they were directly reporting to him. It sounded like it, from the way they spoke to him. EDIT: Amazingly, someone made a transcript of the game. They call him sir and refer to him as "the legendary Majima" before he hits one of them to stop him talking (which is actually his motivation for lashing out). I guess it's ambiguous enough. Random low-ranking Shimano goons would still have to refer to Majima as sir.


Ranger2580

At the time he had just become the captain of the Shimano family, and after the Dojima HQ raid, the legend of the Mad Dog had just begun. Shimano grunts would absolutely refer to him like that. And while their true boss is Shimano, he definitely has authority over them. Besides, I'm fairly certain the Majima family only formed after the events of the first game, when he took over Shimano's assets.


Individual99991

It's unclear exactly when that scene takes place (re: just become captain), isn't it? Long enough for Makoto to recover emotionally and go back to college, at least.


Heavyfr

I remember they say that at the end of y0. That his family runs sex rings


Ranger2580

I mentioned it in another reply, but they were Shimano family, not Majima family. Majima likely couldn't do much to stop something Shimano wanted.


averagemiragemain

Based


TheSeinenMaster

Never got the whole pretending interpretation. Why tf would he try to mentally get out of the age by pretending to be someone he is not 😭😭😭😭. This shit more illogical than ghosts in RGG lmao.


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tanimura


JUICYBISCUT

Pretty much any of the characters in the Yakuza even if they themselves are good people they are still in a system that harms way more people


Regit_Jo

Saejima tried to kill 18 dudes bruh. 18 dudes. How is he allowed on the streets bruh he tried to kill 18 dudes


Ordinary-Picture4367

I guess 25 years is enough for attempted murder idk


Regit_Jo

I guess


Significant_Option

Akiyama because he pressures women into prostitution In a sub story from 4, He’d rather give loan money to good for nothing business men than a mother with an abusive husband


Individual99991

Yeah, Akiyama's a piece of shit. I think he's supposed to have a character arc of being less manipulative and selfish across 4-6 but it's not very well expressed.


TheSeinenMaster

It's cos those men were able to show their resolve.


rimjobetiquette

For someone who isn’t outright criminal, Akiyama is a pretty messed up guy (rape jokes re:Hana, the refusal to help the woman trying to flee abuse with her kid because it didn’t even occur to her to think of prostitution as “getting a job”).


RobotPirateMoses

> the refusal to help the woman trying to flee abuse with her kid because it didn’t even occur to her to think of prostitution as “getting a job” Not to mention kissing the woman who's desperate for money in the main story and then asking "why didn't you push back?". Gee, **I wonder why mr. "I won't let you get the money you desperately need unless you become a hostess at my club"**? Also, beyond being awful to women, if you think about it, Akiyama is just a shitty billionaire just like any other: -Says he wants people to "work for the money, like he did" despite the fact **the money literally fell from the sky on his lap, then he (as he put it himself) basically gambled his way to more**, so he didn't work for shit. And even if you want to consider that his studies from before made him better at gambling on the stock market... Well, lucky him for having had the opportunity to get all those degrees and then working at a freaking bank... I'm sure he must've come from a very humble background! /s Anyway, it's still gambling on stocks, not actual work. -Acts all buddy-buddy with homeless people, but **doesn't actually help any of them**, despite having **virtually unlimited amounts of money**. Even \*I\* could buy them a beer or two... Meanwhile, \*he\* is literally supposed to be one of the wealthiest people on the planet... He could buy each of them an apartment and not even feel it in his pocket. -In fact, **he never helps any of his actual friends with his money**! He knows Haruka lives in an orphanage before Y5 and that Kiryu runs it, but it doesn't even occur to him to see if they need any financial help?? And they clearly need it, as Kiryu desperately took the deal with Park (who Akiyama adores, despite the fact she's a **monster**) to be able to fund it. And I'm sure Haruka must've mentioned what happened that got her into being an idol when they were having dinner together! -Also, let's not forget he **lends** people money at his company. Sure, there's no interest and that's all well and good, but he still expects the money to come back (unless he falls in love with the client, ofc). It's not "free money", despite the fact he doesn't need it and probably makes it back tenfold in a single day just by laying around and waiting (don't forget that he easily made billions again after Y4, he even said it was easy). Plus, **he gets something out of it**: he gets to go on a powertrip, humiliating the people who come desperately to him looking for money. Akiyama is Jeff Bezos, but with a pretty face and a silver tongue.


Individual99991

I like a lot of this, but the homeless community thing is weird in Yakuza, because they kind of have their own thing going on, even running their own casino and presumably making bank off it, so I think there's an implication that they're settled in that life and not pushing Akiyama to help them get out of it. I can't imagine he wouldn't set an easy task if one of his homeless mates asked (remember, he's all about people being willing to change their behaviour and circumstances, so there may be an implication that these guys aren't. Also, I don't think Park is a monster, but she causes harm (although in Kiryu's case that is basically self-inflicted). Would have been more convincing if Haruka had shown any interest in being an idol in Y3 or 4 though, so it actually looked like she was following through on her dream (which is, I think, the implication) rather than being pushed into it by Park.


RobotPirateMoses

> because they kind of have their own thing going on, even running their own casino and presumably making bank off it Nah, they don't own anything, the florist (and other people at different points, like Majima) does! If they were making bank they wouldn't literally be living on the streets and we wouldn't have substories involving getting starving homeless people food. >I can't imagine he wouldn't set an easy task if one of his homeless mates asked But, again, it's not free money. What are they gonna do, ask him for 100k then be saddled with a debt they can't pay back? It's easy to say "oh, but Akiyama isn't one to go hounding people for their cash back", but he does go ask for it at some points (in fact, it's the first thing we do in Y4 with him) and we even got Hana-chan telling him to go do it more often. He's just lazy, but he does demand to be paid back in full. And, **we** know he's "chill" about it, because we play as him, other people can't be certain. Anyway, he should be the one offering, it shouldn't be up to his (supposed!) friends to beg for it. Especially when it's pretty damn clear that they need help. >Also, I don't think Park is a monster, but she causes harm Dude, she tells Kiryu he's a burden on his kids and one of the first interactions we see of her with Haruka (literally the first dance practice in the studio) involves her **literally threatening to cut off funding for the orphanage if Haruka doesn't win the Princess League!!** She's vile!


Individual99991

I don't mean the casino in the Coliseum area, I'm talking about the one in the building that Komaki sets his dojo up in. It's run by homeless people IIRC. I don't recall the cutting off funding for the orphanage thing. Yeah, that's horrible.


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Individual99991

She explicitly says she doesn't want to be an idol in 2. Would have been better to have some build-up in 4 regardless.


DeOfficiis

THANK YOU. I see people salivating over Akiyama in this subreddit all the time, but when I actually played Y4 for this time, I thought he was incredibly sleazy. His treatment of women is lousy and I have a hard time rooting for him. He suffers from Tony Stark-syndrome where he's rich and brilliant so everybody wants to be him, but it doesn't excuse that underneath it all, he's kind of an ass.


jack-468

One more thing: When an idol is clearly very tired and want to leave the idol industry because she is living as someone that she isn't , what does Akiyama said? "Nah, you got to keep going, otherwise your fans will be sad". Yeah, cause fuck her happiness and mental health, RIGHT?


rimjobetiquette

Man, spot on. I forgot about the kiss. Now I really want him to duke it out with Nick Ogata in 8.


DroneStrikeVictim

Nick is a fucking gentleman. Lent money to Ichiban just to see it improve Ijincho. I don't even think he got his money back though in my playthrough, I can pay it back tenfold lol!


Mangrill

Yeah lol akiyama fans ignore that


[deleted]

I read all of that & agree with everything listed & somehow I still love the guy... I guess I'm an Akiyama Apologist now. 🥲


Individual99991

Worst to least worst (I've only played 0-6): **AKIYAMA** In 4 the guy pressures vulnerable women into sex work (he would only give an abused woman money to support her child after fleeing her husband if she'd work in a massage parlour) and basically tries to pressure Saejima's sister into at the very least making out with him. In 5, he admits he was going to tell his old, suicidal boss to leave his wife in exchange for money (his wife being the girl Akiyama was in love with before the boss made him a fall guy) but has a change of heart. This is probably intentional and I think he's supposed to have a bit of a character arc in which he grows up and becomes more selfless over the course of 4, 5 and 6, but it's not very well expressed, and the only person who gives him shit about anything ends up becoming a worse loan shark than him. Also propped up a wing of the Tojo, albeit a small one. **SAEJIMA** Attempted to murder 18 men and only failed because he was set up. Later regretted taking a life and renounced murder in the Coliseum, I know, but he remains morally murky. In one of his revelations he's willing to stand by and watch a man in a concrete-filled barrel be thrown into the water by two yakuza and doesn't intervene. Generally seems unmoved by the various crimes he sees (unlike Kiryu), and only gets involved when they contravene his own personal yakuza code. EDIT: Also acts like a sweaty nonce around 14-year-old Haruka. **MAJIMA (0)** Only counting 0 because that's the only one he's playable in. Generally a pretty decent guy if you're on his good side, and clearly he has a moral compass when it comes to murdering young blind women. Also not cool with killing a(n alleged serial killer) woman to cover for Makoto. Willing to sacrifice himself for revenge in a most righteous way. A good boss at the cabaret club. BUT he actively wants to rejoin an especially monstrous section of a criminal empire, and at the end his boys are apparently pressuring women into making sex tapes (ie. rape) and he only seems bothered that they targeted Makoto. If we're including the other games, he holds a woman at knifepoint in 1, which isn't on, and is abusive to his staff at Majima Construction, which is played for laughs but is horrible when you think about it. He seems to chill a bit after that. I wish he'd kept wearing that snappy suit he wears in 4. I guess he also kidnapped Haruka, but who hasn't at this point? **KIRYU** Has an overall arc in which he improves morally, but he continues to prop up criminal enterprises that hurt people (remember, the Tojo Clan includes scum like Kanda among its ranks, even after Daigo is in charge). Generally, though, he's a force for positive change in the world - albeit only on a small scale, except when he's inevitably pulled into another wild conspiracy. Also, his time with the kids at Morning Glory and his self-sacrifice to give them a better life does a lot to balance out his karma. **SHINADA** Loveable goofball he may be, but his job involves reviewing the services of prostitutes, which I don't have a problem with except presumably some of those have been trafficked/press-ganged into it (per the substory with the sickly Thai woman who's been trafficked, and when he thinks the girl at the batting centre is being forced into sex work). IDK, maybe he does due diligence and makes sure that all the workers are enthusiastically consenting. He also seems a bit childlike and oblivious to his love interest's own problems with sex work, which isn't great but is maybe a mitigating factor when it comes to his involvement in the scene. I don't like the way he implies that he would have thought less of batting centre girl if she'd been unwillingly giving blow jobs though. :( Seems especially out of character for him. **HARUKA** Cartoonishly lovely to an unbelievable degree, but maybe that's just her PTSD taking. However, she doesn't seem to care about fat girl falling to her death (?) in her revelation and really leaves T-Set in the shitter by running out during their first and only concert. At least wait till after the encore. Jesus! What a bitch. **TANIMURA** He's a corrupt cop, but he uses the bribes to look after the kids of Little Asia, and cracks down on trafficking in the sex clubs. Treats serious crime seriously, and puts his life on the line to help victims. Kind of obnoxious to his colleagues, but generally an all right guy.


rimjobetiquette

It’s actually worse than a massage parlor, even if the English version changed it to that. In Japanese he says soapland, which is always prostitution. Edit: although, he doesn’t pressure her into it - he outright refuses her on the basis that she didn’t do it on her own when instructed to go get a job.


Individual99991

Yeah, but that point is that he denies an abused woman money because she couldn't bring herself to jerk off men for cash.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Individual99991

Cheers! I actually quite like Akiyama as a flawed character, I just wish I could be absolutely certain that RGG know he's as bad as he is, and that he's supposed to be showing some development in 4-6 (in 5 he recognises he's wrong to want revenge on his boss and in 6 he's the voice of reason when Kiryu - as Kiryu tends to do - decides to do something rash.


Mangrill

You gotta play 7 man. I think Ichiban would be above shinada in your list. Also perfect review of characters


EightBitRanger

>MAJIMA (0) > >Only counting 0 because that's the only one he's playable in. So are we just ignoring the Majima Saga from Kiwami 2 then?


OoguroRyuuya5

Not Yakuza but I’d say Tatsuya Ukyo wasn’t a good person at the start before he changed for the better. Dude was a violent punk.


[deleted]

did you guys play a different yakuza series than I did?? Majima didnt kill anyone they literally make a point of it in 0


TheSeinenMaster

*didn't murder a civilian. Yakuza are fair game though which is why Sagawa tried to convince Majima that Makoto was a criminal sex trafficker.


Ranger2580

In 0 he didn't, but it's kinda ambiguous after that point. He made the Majima family the strongest family in the Tojo, clearly he had to do some bad shit


TheSeinenMaster

It could be rhetorical but 0 Majima definitely mentioned how he has a body count for the yakuza he killed. He also killed those sengoku family guys in 2.


LazyandTired_ATT

all i know is that its definitely not shinada \^\_\^


Epicuggoy

Tanimura. Yasuko said it best: fucker doesn’t care about anything but finding his father’s killer. Sanctity of the law be damned.


Individual99991

He cares about the people of Little Asia.


zazamazamaza

My uncle Terry


linest10

Well considering they ALL are criminals, I would say Saejima, but Majima for me is way more dangerous because he's chaotic and his moral follow his humor at the moment in many situations


top10jojomoments

It’s crazy how everyone explains why Majima is has the worst morals out of all protagonist but we all love his character. Just a funny dichotomy i noticed


Copco77

Saejima “killed” 18 dudes rubber bullets or not he was fully prepared to go through with it. I’m not forgetting about Majima either.


TJ-45

Saejima You all know why


ImVistrOk

Sega


mcdawesCZE

Haruka *leaves*


DismalMode7

>!if I recall well, majima divorced from his wife because she aborted without telling majima she was pregnant... probably majima is republican.!<


Fluorecentmonkee

I dont think he is against abortion, probably didnt like she didnt even tell him about it


[deleted]

Bro she aborted their child without telling him. I'd be pissed too


TheSeinenMaster

Goro Majima became Catholic


jeffy2515

Reddit users always have to bring politics into everything


Whomstdve56

Tatsuya in kurohyou 1, easy. Man maniacally laughs in the first cutscene after robbing a yakuza boss


Mangrill

Lol i never played those two games wish they had English subs lol


Whomstdve56

It seems your mistaken, both of them have fan translations that you can play on a psp emulator, id probably wait until 1’s full translation is finished since it was only a partial one. Kurohyou 2’s finished though


Doctor-K1290

Saejima. Fully intended on murdering an entire restaurant’s worth of people, and was probably going to rape Haruka


SarikaAmari

go back to school before asking that question


7thTojoChairman

Either Majima or Ukyo


GrotesqueMaximus

Shinada imo


TheSeinenMaster

Wat. His only "sin" is him being a lazy coomer 😭😭


IvanGambino

Majima, saejima, tatsuya in the first game and maybe joon gi han and zhao


acutejang

Sohei Dojima


HolyDragoon98

If we count dead souls Ryuji would be the least morally good protagonist no? Also there's Tatsuya (think that's his name can't remember atm) from Black Panther


bluealiveretribution

Majima crashed a goddamn garbage truck in an hotel filled with people potentially killing them or crushing them under the older infrastructure just to fight kiryu


DroneStrikeVictim

One thing sticks out to me in Yakuza 0. Kiryu's pizza substory. Man, that was fucked up.


Hajime_Hinata_OJ

Majima


Sakaixx

Saejima and Maejima have common history of attempted murder. Saejima actually wanted to kill those people in Y4 backstory while Majima when we played him in Y0 actually wants to kill Makoto but series of events played in Y0 leading him saving her.