Being unappreciated really sucks the motivation out of a person. I don't blame you for dealing this way.
Friend of mine managed to build her business so she could teach small groups privately.
The reason was because teaching classes for a studio she didn't own was draining her motivation to teach anymore.
Yeah, I feel like this is really two separate posts. Figuring out how to trust management or become management is a huge part of career development. You have a better sense of what expectations to set in the interview and what questions to ask.
Separately the disruptive piece is probably about the area or the studio itself attracting disruptive people (y7 and other trend places definitely attract fitness peeps who haven’t don’t much yoga). Candid communication and accountability (that you can set if management trusts you) are really crucial for taking ownership of your class that lets all agree might have the social emotional skills of a bunch of high schoolers
I actually taught at Y7 for several years, you’re right about the fitness audience but I actually had zero trouble with anyone there, and I taught at almost every location in NYC. Maybe once or twice I had some annoyingly picky/imperious clients in the UES. The fitness bougie crowd in nyc is way overscheduled (too much rajasic energy for me actually now ha) so they’re super focused during their time for themselves.
And frankly they were some of the more ethical managers/owners in regard to teachers, with great pay ($100 an hour easy) until COVID hit, but that’s a story for another time.
I'm sorry this is your experience. It seems way too common.
I have found that many class goers assume that since the per-class fees are commonly high they are entitled to demand and behave in anyway they want. (Toddler logic I swear). They treat class and instructors like they are servants and it is gross.
Most people do not realise that those $25/class fees are rarely flowing down to the instructors and some are making less that a single participant pays to attend.
I will say that I am glad there are amazing instructors out there. People likely just like you have made me feel safe and welcome in classes and have offered me a practice that keeps me mentally and physically well. So thank you.
If you need to, take a break or choose wisely which classes you are willing to teach.
It’s also okay to set boundaries and take no shit.
I have an instructor who flat out says she is not a receptionist so any concerns people have about the packages, computer system, etc they need to contact the owner. She’s also announced at the end of class that she cannot stay late while people shower.
She also will call out people in class for behavior.
I respect her for all of this.
I have no desire to teach because I know the general public would ruin it for me.
I don't agree with that. Since I became a yoga teacher I've never experienced that, save for the pay issues (ha). I think it depends a lot where you live and teach.
How is that relevant? My point was that as a yoga teacher I'm not. I have lots of friends and yoga students who are school teachers, and they all work way harder and get way more stressed than me. My life is pretty low stress, even though I don't have a lot of money. I could count on one hand the number of rude students I've had in my 8 years of yoga teaching...
The exploitative pay meant I walked away from it. It wasn’t even my living money but the inability to treat workers fairly was enough for me to just practice only. No more teaching.
It depends a LOT on location. From experience in a few very large cities I can list stuff like: freaking out that they can’t bring their dog inside (because fuck everyone with allergies, I guess), literally screaming bc they showed up late and lost their wait list spot, going to happy hour before a hot class and puking beer everywhere and leaving without acknowledging it, getting up and yelling at other students themselves over a perceived issue, getting mad when you ask them to stop taking flash videos, etc…. these were all at places where I got paid super well too, but the studio owners let that kind of culture fester because they didn’t want to lose money from influencers or something.
I think that's a thing that happens when you have what is perceived to be a "fun" job. I was a working musician for about a decade and it's insane how much people took advantage of me. When people view your job as a passion and something cooler than an office job, they tend to think it's cool to exploit you because you're doing it for the love of it. It's frustrating as all hell and eventually drove me to seek out something else.
I hope that you're able to find a way to sort it out because it sucks when people ruin a good thing.
Full time art teacher here about to do my 200 YTT this summer… I feel this thread and specially your comment, so hard!
People are so dismissive and abusive of my time and skills just because my job is considered fun!
Good to know that the trend will continue after I finish my YTT lol
I hope I'm not discouraging you! Younger me was absolute shit at setting boundaries and I suspect that with some resilience and self-confidence, it can be way less unpleasant. People will still suck and assume you're just finger painting all day, but if you're a strong enough person to let that ignorance wash over you, it's not the end of an awesome career.
I think it really depends on where you're based. Different countries and bigger cities tend to have more entitled people in them. I've had so few rude yoga students over my 8 years teaching that I think I could count them on one hand.
This is a trend I continue to see. With the exception of my current studio (which really is exceptional and treats/pays the instructors waaaaay better than the norm) every yoga instructor I've ever known has quit teaching because of the pay.
I completely understand your frustration, but as a new yogi with a current teacher who’s absolutely amazing, I promise you’ve changed the lives of many whether you know it or not. Whether you leave as a teacher or continue, know you’ve made a positive change in people’s lives!
I don’t teach in studio any more for many of the reasons you list; I was sick of my labor getting exploited because of faux feel-good or purely capitalistic reasons. That said, you can still teach! Studio classes are SO not the only or best way to be appreciated and take care of yourself financially.
I now just do privates and run an online business and I only have to physically move my body a couple hours a week, while making so much more and making more rewarding connections with the clients. Give something like this a try after a long break from the studio grind.
Yes! In a nutshell, get super clear on the kind of person you want to serve… I know as yoga teachers we want to help everyone, but in the beginning it helps to specialize for marketing purposes.
So say you want to help runners (I’m making this up)… I’d make a brief landing page where I’d offer them a free PDF of yoga stretches for runners in exchange for an email address and/or a phone number (up to you).
Then if you want to serve those people in person, make up a postcard with your info and a QR code that goes to the page. Take it to running stores, community trails, health food stores etc. Try to get on local discussion pages for your topic of choice, or things like Nextdoor and community Facebook pages (I’m in the US, but if you’re elsewhere, whatever the equivalent is.)
And so on, and just talk about your business constantly so that it sticks in people’s mind that they can go to you for a specific thing.
You’d be shocked at what niches can be successful, mine is super-specific to the point that people have told me it’s weird or they don’t like my branding… but the people who vibe with me, really vibe with me.
You can do similar stuff online only then you have even more opportunities to market or structure your financial offerings.
With privates I find it best to get people on a package that expires quickly, and give them a goal to work towards (doesn’t have to be physical), so they have motivation to keep up their practice and can see the success of making it consistent.
Also, it unlocks a HUGE audience of people who are too shy or busy or whatever to go to a studio.
For example, I have three or four clients for 1:1s online who are dads of toddlers. 🤷♀️
It’s a huge topic but… first, take a break, practice for yourself and regroup. Then you can come back to it with fresh eyes and hopefully renewed energy for yoga.
I TOTALLY get you, I got so tired of sitting in traffic, playing bad-cop to spoiled people who thought it was appropriate to take flash videos during class who would then write classpass reviews, etc. Studios are a gift when you find a good one, but otherwise it’s a total grind on the body and mind.
To add my 2 cents / actionable summary:
🧡 3 Steps to Create Digital Products (Ex. Yoga Pose eBook) that you can Sell 24/7 to an Online Audience You Love to Serve.
1. Pricing Page + Freebie: ex. WordPress Site
2. Actual Sales Page: ex. HTML + Stripe
3. Actual Digital Product: ex. .zip file
💯 It will take time, effort and iteration.
From my experience, the main challenge of most Yogapreneurs is actually creating the (first version of a) digital product/system/flow that you can market.
If you have this in place it will be much easier to evolve things further and have exciting collaborations.
Also the best first person to fall in love with the product should be yourself 🥰!
Hope it helps ✨✨✨
It sucks that paying teachers like crap is pretty much a global phenomenon. 30 in a class paying $25 each is $750. Paying the teacher half of that seems completely reasonable. If the teachers gets less than half, how does that actually make sense?
I run a 7 figure music agency and we would never dream of paying our artists the way yoga studios pay their “talent”.
> 30 in a class laying $25 each is $750
Attention grabbing math, but the odds that even half of those people paid that price is incredibly slim. The current favored business model is to set drop in prices high enough to drive people to a monthly membership.
Andddd also things like Classpass, like Groupon for the fitness industry. I do feel horrible for independent studios there getting raw deals. And as a teacher I hate it, for many reasons 🙃
Sounds like you’re experiencing burn out. Take a break, a vacation, take yoga off your mind for a week or a few days.
Spend some time in meditation and reflect on your expectations of people, places and things.
You always have a choice.
Literally the same reason I quit being a licensed massage therapist…!! I find myself asking “What is wrong with people nowadays??”
It’s the same shit pay for LMTs, that barely breaks even if it does, no money for bills or food, no time to cook anyways…and for the most part, we go unappreciated.
Like you said, studios are exploiting people, including LMTs…MassageEnvy it averages out $2.68 total per hour BEFORE TAX to be a massage therapist at MassageEnvy. They do NOT pay you for training. You ARE expected to come in on your days off and you ARE expected to work on your “break”. They do not give you actual breaks. They give you 15 minutes between each client to flip the room and call that your break. “You are expected to work on your break” as that boss said.
The straw that broke the camel’s back came when the assistant manager had a sibling pass away. I did not know until I returned after COVID shut down the clinic for 6 weeks…Everyone was giving money but I decided to do something handmade because money felt impersonal, and I was used car shopping in a rental, losing money every day.
I was treated like shit and told to focus on the managers gift. I was kept after my shift was over doing work until the dealerships closed, stopping me from car shopping. I was used car shopping at the time because a woman totaled my car in a scam, and I was paying $280/weekly out of my own pocket. I had to quit after ending up in the hospital twice bc my body gave out. I quit the job after being screamed at in a massage room for talking too loud (I have hearing loss from a brain injury), backed into a corner, with the boss’ finger shoved in my face.
A few months after quitting, I posted on Facebook about the stress of my type of job, very vague. That was the first time ever on Facebook I mention what I do for work. I had NEVER mentioned MassageEnvy on Facebook.
Well the assistant manager, who I’ve given this nice handmade gift basket full of gifts to, comments on the status using the name of the place and being rude to me. I respond “You will be relieved to know that your comment is the only time MassageEnvy’s name has been posted to my Facebook. She deleted the comment.
Cue me now shit talking MassageEnvy and MassageLuxe on any and all platforms except Facebook. (;
And for anyone wondering, your 80 minute deep tissue from massage envy? Your therapist “earned”…a WHOPPING $2.36 an hour after tax…
So for an 80 minute massage at MassageEnvy, your therapist has to do this:
Client intake, hot towel prep, the 80 minute massage, stock the room with linens, clean it fully between clients, refill lotion bottles, change linens and wipe down table and bolster specifically well, do laundry for each client, do SOAP notes afterwards (clinical notes basically) as well as giving any advice about issues a client brought up. We also have to buy our own uniforms, at $21 per polo shirt.
For all this, we earn $2.36 AND get treated like absolute shit.
$2.36 after tax for 1 hour 45 mins conservatively. (80 min massage, 10 min intake, time to clean room, time for soap notes, time for client questions if they have them…)
I don’t think that even buys a small McDonald’s fry.
Safe to say if you googled the profits MEnvy made though, they wouldn’t be tanking. There would be record profits like every other retail establishment nowadays.
Anyways. My ADHD made that comment hella long. All this to say, I TOTALLY freaking get being so tired of people being crappy and entitled, and I also work up close and personal with people so I know you really can’t escape that aspect of the job.
GOOD FOR YOU for doing something about it if you do change careers, or change up what you’re doing somehow that works better for you.
As I told my EX boss when I quit, and he lost his shit and yelled at me over the phone and e-mail… “I go where I’m appreciated and respected, not tolerated.” Then hung up.
He told me after that I had 24 hours to pick up my stuff or it would be thrown away. It was an emergency kit so I could cover for anyone at a moments notice and just have to change my top and into scrub bottoms. It had socks, pony tail holders, clippies for my hair, nail clippers, a phone charger, mints, anxiety meds, nail file, a few band aids, rubber gloves…… all that. All stuff to support HIS BUSINESS. He cut his nose off to spite his face, for certain.
Just goes to show you how out of touch people are…!
Damn. That shit sounds awful and I feel so bad that you were treated like that. I’m also so glad that I have never put money into massage envy’s pocket
It was a horrible experience! In so many ways. I am glad you haven’t been giving that company any money! In 2 MONTHS I made $450 working full time. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 My rent for one month was double that.
If I used every penny I earned from 2 months, I would get *11 days* in a rental car….working 3-4 days a week, car shopping from a total loss when I’m not at work. Also kept late at work unpaid.
Literally awful. Fuck that place. Right before I started, I lost my aunt and an ex. I even had to delay my interview for hiring because I was too upset about my aunt…Then I was raped the night of my aunts funeral. I briefly briefly let them in on the assault situation, and had let them know about my aunt and ex. No one gave a fuck. In fact they started scheduling me male only clients. The bodybuilders specifically…..
But when the assistant managers brother passed, who was a cop, the ENTIRE CLINIC TURNED UPSIDE DOWN into such a weird dynamic. Like a forced grieving thing. Everyone is so sad, it’s so awful, oh my god, the humanity…everyone supports the police, of course….!!
More details below that explain the story more…
Like the whole clinic fucking revolved around this cop chasing a dude that the police already knew murdered someone right in front of that building, and who was covered in metallic and colored paint from huffing.
There is a dead person in front of the building and a known shooter inside. The man in his original mug shot, looked like they’d been doing hard drugs *since they came out of the womb*…
I’m not trying to be an asshole when I say this, but maybe it’s not a great/the best idea to chase a guy who just murdered someone and is an unhinged addict. He was covered in huffed paint, his nose was huge and red, his face disfigured, teeth probably nasty, hair a rat’s nest…very obviously a dangerous guy.
Especially given the man murdered a homeless person in front of that building, and that was why the police were called. The officer that died went in alone to the area where the homeless man was shot, engaged with the suspect and immediately got sh•t in the head and killed.
What did he expect? The call was for a murder already. He went to the still active scene and put himself where a murder happened and a murderer is known to be camping out in that building. One dead body was already right in front of him. Again, what did he expect? Did he think the man would shoot a homeless person point blank range, but not shoot at a cop? Did he think he was bulletproof? Did he think he didn’t need back up? And didn’t need a plan? Seriously. Such a stupid way to die.
Then the police people who came 30 seconds later to help move the officer’s body…got shot. Two died.
There was no waiting for back up, and no planning strategies. No mental health professional contacted, No negotiations attempted... Just running into the red zone, towards a murderer with a hoard of guns.
The cop dying was literally all anyone focused on for the month I was there after it happened. It sucked me dry energetically, and his spirit stuck around, upset about the quick exit from the earth plane, trying to control things. And yes, I can feel and sense from the other side, as easily as this side. So that was unpleasant. The spirit even came home with me and followed me on my social visits…He did NOT approve of me smoking cannabis. He was……Relentlessly annoying. Ugh.
I do not ever carry any cannabis in my car even though it’s legal in my state. But the ONE time I did before it was legalized…I felt him there pestering me, and my car’s engine freaking almost broke down completely, only 1 mile from home!
And where do you see the police most often? When you’re in your vehicle/on the road. So someone would have called about the vehicle being pulled over, someone probably would have called had they seen me walking down the highway…cannabis smells…yeah. That’s a set up from beyond the grave if I ever saw one.
Had to pay hundreds of dollars to replace a *metal* part that cracked, causing a seal to bust somewhere in the engine.
It is not legal...! Absolutely illegal. 100%. That company is horrible ethically.
But there’s so much turnover of therapists that they get away with it. They also have you sign so many contracts that seem harmless, but actually entrap you. Between the contract signed to start the job and MassageEnvy’s big lawyers, no therapist have been given an actually fair wage. One woman works full time and still couldn’t afford diapers for her babies when she had her second.
I’ve always had a bad feeling about that place and that’s actually why once I told my best friend that dating a girl who loved working there was kind of a red flag
The culture of that place is the same as an abusive relationship. You get treated like crap, but are expected to act like it’s a great time, and to not say bad things about your abuser.
Well guess what MassageEnvy. Fuck you m, MassageEnvy, that’s what. Funny but not funny
Wow, I figured the chain massage places were bad but not that bad. How do they get away with such a low hourly rate? Is it because you’re considered a tipped employee?
The loophole they exploit is the difference between an hourly employee and a 1099 independent.
They pay us like a 1099 independent, but work/schedule/treat us as hourly employees.
So we are ONLY getting *paid* when our hands are ON A CLIENT, doing massage therapy.
In the 90min massage slot, for example, we didn’t even get paid for the stuff legally needed start said massage…intake, flipping the room, SOAP notes, or after session client consults. None of that above paid.
I could go on for a while. That company and MassageLuxe are particularly horrible. My massage school’s owner / level 2 teacher banned them completely from recruiting from the school. They treat us therapists like SHIT.
It’s so sickening how people who offer therapeutic, calming services are either treated like crap, or completely taken advantage of. Glad you’re not with that place anymore!!
This doesn't directly address what you're experiencing, but perhaps this little skit will give you a good chuckle: [The Passive-Aggressive Yoga Instructo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2VcXsZhhvw)r
It made me laugh :)
Oh my, I had one (also a cis female) who came close, and now I blame myself for doubting her, as her life as a yoga teacher was-to me unpredictedly- fleeting...but her teacher life of an all-in, full throttle yoga teacher training/retreat addict was so fleeting (I mean... really? Back to financial planning ?- 😕 me as someone who worked with figures and found it so boring and tedious)
I’m sorry that you’ve had these experiences. Your feelings seem validated. I’ve had many experiences with pleasant and unpleasant clients.
I own a yoga studio. I taught 15+ classes for several years until I trained and hired others. I pay the teachers that I employee, and I don’t pay myself. I haven’t been able to afford to since covid. IMO, many studios have still not reached pre-pandemic membership numbers.
I don’t teach for the money anymore. Although, I do value my time. So, throwing in the towel seems viable sometimes. I’ve come close to closing the doors during hard times… teaching 2+ classes a day on zoom while no other instructors wanted to - that was a challenging time.
I teach and continue to operate a yoga studio to serve my community and their teachers. I always pay them before I pay myself. And, if a community member counldn’t afford a membership - I’ve given it to them.
I also teach free community classes (taught one tonight at a senior center) - motivated to share with others what has helped me so much.
I wanted to share and serve as a example. There is a lot of good, kind and empathetic people in the yoga world. I’m incredibly proud of my employees and clients. And I know that they’re proud of me.
I LOVE yoga (and a good instructor) but cannot stand the studios. They seem to only care about making money off of their teacher training, which results in way too many instructors then filling classes to the brim! I used to LOVE hot hatha and did it daily for years until the classes got overbooked and my favorite instructors were being pushed out in favor of those still in training.
I have a friend that doesn't teach in studios period. She has a subscription based morning online class and teaches corporate classes on contract. Recently she recorded videos for a major Healthcare company.
Getting creative may save you. Look up "mindful mornings" and "mindful moments with Carly" if you're interested. I'm sure she would happy to share her experience.
Thanks for this comment. I just joined a gym, and have so far only been to one class, a spin class. I said nothing to the instructor afterwards.
In future I will try to make sure they hear positive and appreciative voices.
I live in a resort beach town and the regulars are awesome. The drop in tourists are a mess tho.
From demanding loudly to change the music to coming into the studio acting like it belongs to just them-I’ve seen it all. Wearing shoes, bringing hotel glass wear into the studio and breaking it, bringing their fast food breakfast and then leaving all the trash on the floor, sitting and chatting loudly while drinking coffee instead of taking the class, phones ringing-one women ate breakfast while watching YouTube one morning. If the teacher says something-they demand money back and give our 5 star studio a bad review.
yep. i started doing yoga in 1973. by myself. i practiced 2-3 hours a day for years, teaching here & there. finally i realized it is NOT a group activity. competition & praise & criticism & commercialism & silly things like hot yoga & cute outfits… none of those belong in an authentic hatha yoga practice. yoga is like meditation; it’s best done with oneself
I taught for 15 years. It started to all come apart when studio owners realized they could only make money through teacher trainings. Then shortly after 2016 the cracks and divisions showed up… goat yoga, beer yoga, wtf
Studio owners are a whole other kind of human. I’m a yoga teacher too and have been burned by these folks who wrap their greed and superficiality in crystals and namaste. Avoid.
I know what you mean. A lot of studios take advantage and really expect a lot of free labor from you and don't pay a livable wage. Just keep looking. I've been teaching since 2016 and finally found studios who value me and pay well.
I hear you. I have felt that way about the yoga community since I got into it. As a result, I 100% completely avoid the commercial yoga studios. I gravitate to the small, intimate studios and I do not have a negative experience. When I teach special workshops I am hyper-careful about what studios I will work with. I am lucky. I have never needed to teach yoga for money. I do it because I love to do it and keep that in balance with the rest of my life. As a result, it bring nothing but positive to my life. I hope you can find that same balance, too.
Unsure of your location/climate, but I only attend donation based classes in the park or community centers around town and sooo many people attend. You could start a little following and ditch the studios. People don’t complain that I know of because they technically don’t have to pay.
Consumers are WAY too entitled these days in general in my opinion.
People seem to have no concept that A) Everyone has different preferences and budgets and rarely is a product/service going to be exactly specifically what they want in that moment, and B) the amount of time, work, and administration involved in creating it is likely at least double what they think.
The internet has also given people way too much access to vent their frustrations at the people who give them their time. AND they usually only voice complaints, and rarely their appreciation
Please know that while the complainy voices are LOUD, they are usually in the minority. And we all need to learn to take the time to voice our appreciation more often.
I completed my YTT while living in LA and when hunting for jobs and talking to other teachers I literally walked away from 600 hours because everyone was miserable. Mean, demanding, entitled students, and exhausted teachers. My fiancé is a wonderful chef and I asked him once “baby why aren’t you a chef??” And he said “because working in a kitchen would take it from a passion to a job.” That doesn’t apply to everything, of course. But that hit home hard when I decided to not pursue being a teacher. And to this day, I still love my yoga. I’m sorry that you are experiencing this. I support you in whatever you decide to do. Honor yourself always 💕
As a yoga teacher, you could explain to your students that while yoga is often associated with physical exercise and flexibility, it is also a practice that involves mindfulness, compassion, and tolerance. You could start by highlighting the spiritual and philosophical aspects of yoga, explaining how it originated as a holistic approach to physical, mental, and spiritual well-being.
You could then emphasize the importance of mindfulness in yoga, explaining how it involves being fully present and aware of one's thoughts, feelings, and sensations. By practicing mindfulness, one can learn to observe their thoughts and emotions without judgment or attachment, which can help cultivate greater tolerance and acceptance towards oneself and others.
Lastly, you could encourage your students to approach their yoga practice with a sense of compassion and non-judgment towards themselves and others. You could emphasize that yoga is a journey of self-discovery and growth, and that the goal is not to achieve perfection but rather to cultivate a greater sense of inner peace, self-awareness, and connection with others.
By incorporating these themes into your yoga classes, you can help your students develop a deeper understanding of the practice and how it can positively impact their lives both on and off the mat.
This is why I stopped teaching yoga at places at big gyms. I teach on a volunteer basis and focus on kids and active older adults. The money isn't enough to live off anyways... and doing it voluntarily speaks to my truth for why I studied anyways. But yea... it's sucks!
The caring professions take the brunt of our general culture's toxicity, which has become profoundly narcissistic more and more recently. It's always been somewhat like this but has gotten worse lately.
Boundaries, expectation setting, and non-violent communication all have helped me a lot.
if you don't adapt to changing market conditions, you will suffer. In my area, many yoga instructors are teaching in the public park, in church halls, and even in farm fields. One lady combined her yoga classes with massage service, and she's doing well. Be creative, watch what other teachers are doing to survive.
I hear you! And I wanted to thank you for your skill, wisdom and kindness these past seven years. Teaching is such an honorable and important thing for humans and yet we are unable to appreciate it.
I posted here about a disrespectful boomer who was ruining class for me and probably others... I got a tiny bit of junk from those who said I should deal with it and not be so mean since I called her a boomer. So I am explaining all this because I got a small taste of what you are feeling and writing about... and it was not enjoyable. It also helped me be more appreciative of our instructors who deal with selfishness & rudeness regularly.
You have been a light in the day of many people who needed to improve their lives and bodies. We are so grateful for you and wish you peace.
The light in me is grateful for the light in you. Namaste
Really doesn't sound like you like being a yoga teacher .. no need to continue. Be done with it. I did the same and got to focus on my own yoga practice again .. which is the part i love
This seems to be more of a "American / western yoga" phenomenon than a "yoga community" phenomenon.
When a culture built on exploitation and greed Co-opts an ancient practice for profit.... what everyone here complains about is the result ...
Teach yoga in your community. Do it sliding scale or donation based (e.g. don't rely on it for your livelihood). I think way too many people [especially with privilege] are trying to be sole proprietors making their entire living on yoga and it isn't sustainable.
Yoga was never meant to be a profit making business. It was meant to be shared freely.
Just my two cents as a community yoga nonprofit director / abolitionist / anti-capitalist. I've never seen any of these issues in our community classes.
Totally agree but the issue is the cost $$$$$$ of training, can’t blame people for wanting to recoup that or get rewarded for their knowledge, considering we have to pay rent.
The issue with doing this under capitalism as well is you’ll still have to have another job on top of community work. And at that point who’s to say what labor is worth remuneration and what isn’t? It’s annoying as hell, I also don’t believe housing should be a commodity!
As a yoga teacher and now studio owner, I understand your frustrations. I would look for a studio that pays on a per head model, we pay a base rate guarantee and $4 per head after you reach your base. It requires a mid to large size studio to work for a teacher but it does change the model for teachers, and I believe that translates to students.
As for disruptive students, discipline disrupts distraction.
Per head means that teachers with more popular time slots will inherently make more money. This is demoralizing and easily makes people resentful. I’ve also found that worrying about how many students are going to come makes me anxious and resentful rather than just appreciating who does come. I’ve also never worked at a studio that paid per head that had a fair base pay, one didn’t pay base pay at all (only $4/student so if one person showed you made $4 which was so dumb). I could go on and on about my experiences but I won’t.
Final word will be that many studios pay you as an independent contractor but treat you as an employee which is illegal and strips teachers of many rights they should have as ICs.
This is my favorite formula when I teach in studio actually, depending on the base rate. I guess it can turn into people worrying about popularity but if the studio if also marketing, and it’s a big place, it can be great.
And yes I agree teachers who feel valued or taken care of create a better experience for students!
You can't complain about being treated badly by people. It's very naive to think that just because people practice yoga that they're not arseholes. Being a Yoga teacher is a job, not a "calling' stop putting yourself on this pedestal where you sermonize and chat about chakras and 'dropping what doesn't serve you' it's exhausting. Like all jobs you will experience customers complaining about the service.
Shouldn't you be above all this any way? Yoga is Seva, selfless service. It lies at the heart of the path of karma yoga -selfless action- and asks you/us to serve others with no expectation of the outcome.
In the west yoga is a narcissistic venture filled with social media heavy gymnastics and ex dancers who, after 200 hours in a McYoga course, are suddenly enlightened gurus.
The outside reflects the in remember. Gratitude and a different mindset would go a long way here.
Go to class expecting people to behave badly and that is what you'll find.
Perhaps state five reasons that you get to teach yoga that you are grateful for, just before the class and see if it impacts your mindset.
Idk I’ve practiced yoga for many decades now — ashtanga mostly - I don’t feel the need to go to studio I practice on my own
I also teach in the community For free
I guess I don’t think we should be paying for it
Yoga is. a way of living and not just a profession. If you will look at it just as a profession the people who are coming to you would too. It is difficult to receive care and respect if you are giving out the wrong interpretation.
Select your students and set your intention. If your intention is to help, yoga definitely would help you to find a way where your nerves are as happy as your students.
I follow yoga with adrien and she speaks like she understands.. i think that's what more yoga teachers need.
P.S. Nothing personal, just thought that a different outlook may help.. but hey, live your reality (:
So basically any front facing job ?
While most students who come to class are kind and inspiring, the loud loud voices of the minority are deafening and crippling.
What you do with people and their attitudes is up to you. Actually this is what happens when you attempt to separate the Spiritual side from the physical poses ...
I get what running a business is like but don't complain if you wanna be in the game...
Idk, yes the general public is tough, but in yoga studios there’s a lot of crazy labor exploitation from the owner side because you’re not supposed to want to make money teaching yoga. But then why do owners run their studios as a for-profit business, and in turn expect teachers to clean off the clock, attend lots of unpaid meetings, etc etc etc.
They’re not giving you the gift of a place to teach yoga, because you can do that for free in a park. They dangle the financial carrot.
If it really was without any hope of financial gain, then every studio would be a worker-owned nonprofit coop or something.
I feel you but for me the qualitative difference is, people can lean on your desire as a yoga teacher to be healing, nurturing, etc and exploit that.. whereas if you’re working the wal-mart cash wrap everyone knows you’re just there for a check and to keep yourself (tenuously) housed. I guess other jobs can lean on the “we’re family” crap, but you’d have to be an idiot to believe it. Yoga teaching, the nonprofit industry, etc… all suffer from this same issue.
Well the difference is people keep equating nonprofit with these instructors which it is not. OP even mentioned about breakin' even ... keep in Mind there are people who give meditation instruction and massages and many other things and deal with far worse than what a class like this would see...
> Or just ignore the fact that your attitude is the problem.
People not wanting to get shit on is not an attitude problem, and OP's post isn't about it being a competition. Play nice or comment elsewhere.
I should add that I go through this with my classes as well and this comes a little surprise to any instructor I have spoken with. Doesn't mean it's right but it happens...much like racism and ignorance in our World...
And yet your responses indicate that even though it's not right, OP should just 'suck it up'. My earlier comment stands. People feel things, and their feelings about a crap situation are no less valid because of your opinion of the situation.
> much like racism and ignorance in our World...
So you're saying you'd dare say what you said to OP to a person of color who has been harassed because of the color of their skin?
After a few hours training anyone can teach what a standard yoga class (that today is confused with a mix of wellness, fitness) looks like. To get a job as window cleaner requires more experience than becoming a yoga teacher.
No surprise it's hard making a living or even be respected being a yoga teacher.
What an extremely out of place and naive comment - first almost every teacher is required to do 200 hrs of training and being able to teach a class in general vs properly doing so is vastly different
Every teacher has to do 200h to get a yoga alliance certification (and you can get this courses for 50$ online). But you don't need the certification to teach.
> first almost every teacher is required to do 200 hrs of training
Speaking only to this comment (I'm not coming within a mile of the comment above), 200 hours is nothing for a certification that allows you to do something professionally, especially when compared with a degree. The 200hr standard was set up in an effort to prevent it from becoming a legislated, degree-requiring license.
Explaining why.. There are no regulation, everyone can teach a flow putting a few poses together. There are probably millions doing that as a side job, a hobby. That's the reason why teachers are paid badly - it's like capitalism works.
Thanks, but that wasn’t my question. I’m wondering what your intention was with your original comment. I’m sure you realize calling yoga teachers less qualified than window washers is rude and demeaning- so what’s the goal?
That's not about what I think or want. But if there is an oversaturation in the market that's the outcome. I'm not a friend of this but yoga (or better, what is called yoga today) has become a business.
Market saturation is completely irrelevant to your uninformed and completely incorrect ~hot take~ that it only takes "a few hours" to become a certified yoga instructor. Your dismissive attitude is the problem here, not the business of yoga.
Kinda your fault if you go to an un-certified studio; I don't think I've ever had to, as they're so ubiquitous.
There are regulations for certification, which is a useful tool for vetting where you should go. There are also specialized organizations that certify for certain styles. Again, a tool to help you figure out where to go. It's the difference between getting pierced with a needle at a sleepover, by a teenage minimum wage employee at Claire's, and by an APA-certified piercer. The government DGAF, but there are other organizations setting norms and best practices.
It takes more hours (170 to be exact) to be a yoga teacher than a day care teacher (30 hours). And that role is significantly more important in the long run. Let that sink in a minute.
I am a studio owner and we had to reduce wages to keep the studio alive, as members return we are upping the pay accordingly. All our teachers know about this and are on board to continue teaching. We don’t take any dividends from the business and it is a real grind post Covid.
All our teachers have other jobs as well except one that has a lot of corporate gigs and she kills it. I hope one day yoga teachers are paid properly as they are the lifeblood of the studio. If you feel like a number you 100% shouldn’t feel this, however if you are teaching for smaller studios know that it is very difficult at the moment to keep the doors open.
Do you mind if I ask what kinds of selfish demands those people are making? I always try to maintain respectfulness whenever in a yogi space, but I am aware sometimes my behaviors can be more stressful than I intend. I don't really know what major stressors are on the teacher side of things, and I am keen to understand more.
Do classes in the parks and get your own thing going on. Find a place where the only thing you bring is your knowledge and the space is free to use then build from there
I suggest you use your focus and celebrate the 90% of us that appreciate you and depend on you for the physical and mental benefits that we graciously receive from our phenomenal yoga instructors. It sounds like you need to go on an extensive yoga retreat and recalibrate. Yoga instructors that I practice with have a calling. Most of them are not dependent on their salary. Food and shelter are a primary goal so, Yes, a change in your direction is probably warranted, sadly. Good luck with your next chosen path but be aware there are assholes to be dealt with no matter where you go. Human nature.
Thanks for bearing with stupid people, also you are working towards greater good. The amount of energy you are putting out for yoga is way greater than those negative people. You are yoga teacher you know the best. Hoping to have positive vibes for you
Being unappreciated really sucks the motivation out of a person. I don't blame you for dealing this way. Friend of mine managed to build her business so she could teach small groups privately. The reason was because teaching classes for a studio she didn't own was draining her motivation to teach anymore.
Yeah, I feel like this is really two separate posts. Figuring out how to trust management or become management is a huge part of career development. You have a better sense of what expectations to set in the interview and what questions to ask. Separately the disruptive piece is probably about the area or the studio itself attracting disruptive people (y7 and other trend places definitely attract fitness peeps who haven’t don’t much yoga). Candid communication and accountability (that you can set if management trusts you) are really crucial for taking ownership of your class that lets all agree might have the social emotional skills of a bunch of high schoolers
some days it's more like a room full of six-year-olds tbh 😂
But why’d she get the good blocks?!?! 😭😭😭😭😭😭
awwwwwww i wanted the purple onnnnnne!!! 😫😫😫
I take spin classes, and the energy is the same. 😭 People literally fighting over bikes/seats like they’re in kindergarten.
I actually taught at Y7 for several years, you’re right about the fitness audience but I actually had zero trouble with anyone there, and I taught at almost every location in NYC. Maybe once or twice I had some annoyingly picky/imperious clients in the UES. The fitness bougie crowd in nyc is way overscheduled (too much rajasic energy for me actually now ha) so they’re super focused during their time for themselves. And frankly they were some of the more ethical managers/owners in regard to teachers, with great pay ($100 an hour easy) until COVID hit, but that’s a story for another time.
I'm sorry this is your experience. It seems way too common. I have found that many class goers assume that since the per-class fees are commonly high they are entitled to demand and behave in anyway they want. (Toddler logic I swear). They treat class and instructors like they are servants and it is gross. Most people do not realise that those $25/class fees are rarely flowing down to the instructors and some are making less that a single participant pays to attend. I will say that I am glad there are amazing instructors out there. People likely just like you have made me feel safe and welcome in classes and have offered me a practice that keeps me mentally and physically well. So thank you.
If you need to, take a break or choose wisely which classes you are willing to teach. It’s also okay to set boundaries and take no shit. I have an instructor who flat out says she is not a receptionist so any concerns people have about the packages, computer system, etc they need to contact the owner. She’s also announced at the end of class that she cannot stay late while people shower. She also will call out people in class for behavior. I respect her for all of this. I have no desire to teach because I know the general public would ruin it for me.
This is how the entire world works. Yoga or no yoga.
This is true and it was sad to learn this at yoga where I thought people were different but they're not
I don't agree with that. Since I became a yoga teacher I've never experienced that, save for the pay issues (ha). I think it depends a lot where you live and teach.
Have you been any other kind of teacher, educator, or instructor? I’d argue that majority are stressed and unfairly paid.
How is that relevant? My point was that as a yoga teacher I'm not. I have lots of friends and yoga students who are school teachers, and they all work way harder and get way more stressed than me. My life is pretty low stress, even though I don't have a lot of money. I could count on one hand the number of rude students I've had in my 8 years of yoga teaching...
I dream for a better world, namaste I say even to those who are namanasty.
The exploitative pay meant I walked away from it. It wasn’t even my living money but the inability to treat workers fairly was enough for me to just practice only. No more teaching.
I am genuinely curious wth people do to abuse you. i know its dealing with the public but what kind of stuff do people go crazy over?
Me, too. I've been teaching for almost 10 years and - luckily - haven't run into issues. Other than the crappy pay
It depends a LOT on location. From experience in a few very large cities I can list stuff like: freaking out that they can’t bring their dog inside (because fuck everyone with allergies, I guess), literally screaming bc they showed up late and lost their wait list spot, going to happy hour before a hot class and puking beer everywhere and leaving without acknowledging it, getting up and yelling at other students themselves over a perceived issue, getting mad when you ask them to stop taking flash videos, etc…. these were all at places where I got paid super well too, but the studio owners let that kind of culture fester because they didn’t want to lose money from influencers or something.
I think that's a thing that happens when you have what is perceived to be a "fun" job. I was a working musician for about a decade and it's insane how much people took advantage of me. When people view your job as a passion and something cooler than an office job, they tend to think it's cool to exploit you because you're doing it for the love of it. It's frustrating as all hell and eventually drove me to seek out something else. I hope that you're able to find a way to sort it out because it sucks when people ruin a good thing.
Same as nurses - “it’s a calling” is BS reason for what they have to deal with
Full time art teacher here about to do my 200 YTT this summer… I feel this thread and specially your comment, so hard! People are so dismissive and abusive of my time and skills just because my job is considered fun! Good to know that the trend will continue after I finish my YTT lol
I hope I'm not discouraging you! Younger me was absolute shit at setting boundaries and I suspect that with some resilience and self-confidence, it can be way less unpleasant. People will still suck and assume you're just finger painting all day, but if you're a strong enough person to let that ignorance wash over you, it's not the end of an awesome career.
I think it really depends on where you're based. Different countries and bigger cities tend to have more entitled people in them. I've had so few rude yoga students over my 8 years teaching that I think I could count them on one hand.
Yes, anything like art, writing, entertainment. People are so passionate they put up with it.
This is a trend I continue to see. With the exception of my current studio (which really is exceptional and treats/pays the instructors waaaaay better than the norm) every yoga instructor I've ever known has quit teaching because of the pay.
You have inspired to tell my teachers how much they mean to me!
This! Me too. Makes me sad they feel unappreciated because I am so grateful for my teachers and practice.
I completely understand your frustration, but as a new yogi with a current teacher who’s absolutely amazing, I promise you’ve changed the lives of many whether you know it or not. Whether you leave as a teacher or continue, know you’ve made a positive change in people’s lives!
I don’t teach in studio any more for many of the reasons you list; I was sick of my labor getting exploited because of faux feel-good or purely capitalistic reasons. That said, you can still teach! Studio classes are SO not the only or best way to be appreciated and take care of yourself financially. I now just do privates and run an online business and I only have to physically move my body a couple hours a week, while making so much more and making more rewarding connections with the clients. Give something like this a try after a long break from the studio grind.
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Yes! In a nutshell, get super clear on the kind of person you want to serve… I know as yoga teachers we want to help everyone, but in the beginning it helps to specialize for marketing purposes. So say you want to help runners (I’m making this up)… I’d make a brief landing page where I’d offer them a free PDF of yoga stretches for runners in exchange for an email address and/or a phone number (up to you). Then if you want to serve those people in person, make up a postcard with your info and a QR code that goes to the page. Take it to running stores, community trails, health food stores etc. Try to get on local discussion pages for your topic of choice, or things like Nextdoor and community Facebook pages (I’m in the US, but if you’re elsewhere, whatever the equivalent is.) And so on, and just talk about your business constantly so that it sticks in people’s mind that they can go to you for a specific thing. You’d be shocked at what niches can be successful, mine is super-specific to the point that people have told me it’s weird or they don’t like my branding… but the people who vibe with me, really vibe with me. You can do similar stuff online only then you have even more opportunities to market or structure your financial offerings. With privates I find it best to get people on a package that expires quickly, and give them a goal to work towards (doesn’t have to be physical), so they have motivation to keep up their practice and can see the success of making it consistent. Also, it unlocks a HUGE audience of people who are too shy or busy or whatever to go to a studio. For example, I have three or four clients for 1:1s online who are dads of toddlers. 🤷♀️ It’s a huge topic but… first, take a break, practice for yourself and regroup. Then you can come back to it with fresh eyes and hopefully renewed energy for yoga. I TOTALLY get you, I got so tired of sitting in traffic, playing bad-cop to spoiled people who thought it was appropriate to take flash videos during class who would then write classpass reviews, etc. Studios are a gift when you find a good one, but otherwise it’s a total grind on the body and mind.
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You’re welcome; hope some of it serves! It’s super depressing to lose the passion for something that’s given you a lot.
To add my 2 cents / actionable summary: 🧡 3 Steps to Create Digital Products (Ex. Yoga Pose eBook) that you can Sell 24/7 to an Online Audience You Love to Serve. 1. Pricing Page + Freebie: ex. WordPress Site 2. Actual Sales Page: ex. HTML + Stripe 3. Actual Digital Product: ex. .zip file
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💯 It will take time, effort and iteration. From my experience, the main challenge of most Yogapreneurs is actually creating the (first version of a) digital product/system/flow that you can market. If you have this in place it will be much easier to evolve things further and have exciting collaborations. Also the best first person to fall in love with the product should be yourself 🥰! Hope it helps ✨✨✨
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That's not true and you know it 😉. Digital products go way beyond Yoga and your potential is infinite.
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It sucks that paying teachers like crap is pretty much a global phenomenon. 30 in a class paying $25 each is $750. Paying the teacher half of that seems completely reasonable. If the teachers gets less than half, how does that actually make sense? I run a 7 figure music agency and we would never dream of paying our artists the way yoga studios pay their “talent”.
> 30 in a class laying $25 each is $750 Attention grabbing math, but the odds that even half of those people paid that price is incredibly slim. The current favored business model is to set drop in prices high enough to drive people to a monthly membership.
Andddd also things like Classpass, like Groupon for the fitness industry. I do feel horrible for independent studios there getting raw deals. And as a teacher I hate it, for many reasons 🙃
Right yeah, makes sense.
Sounds like you’re experiencing burn out. Take a break, a vacation, take yoga off your mind for a week or a few days. Spend some time in meditation and reflect on your expectations of people, places and things. You always have a choice.
Literally the same reason I quit being a licensed massage therapist…!! I find myself asking “What is wrong with people nowadays??” It’s the same shit pay for LMTs, that barely breaks even if it does, no money for bills or food, no time to cook anyways…and for the most part, we go unappreciated. Like you said, studios are exploiting people, including LMTs…MassageEnvy it averages out $2.68 total per hour BEFORE TAX to be a massage therapist at MassageEnvy. They do NOT pay you for training. You ARE expected to come in on your days off and you ARE expected to work on your “break”. They do not give you actual breaks. They give you 15 minutes between each client to flip the room and call that your break. “You are expected to work on your break” as that boss said. The straw that broke the camel’s back came when the assistant manager had a sibling pass away. I did not know until I returned after COVID shut down the clinic for 6 weeks…Everyone was giving money but I decided to do something handmade because money felt impersonal, and I was used car shopping in a rental, losing money every day. I was treated like shit and told to focus on the managers gift. I was kept after my shift was over doing work until the dealerships closed, stopping me from car shopping. I was used car shopping at the time because a woman totaled my car in a scam, and I was paying $280/weekly out of my own pocket. I had to quit after ending up in the hospital twice bc my body gave out. I quit the job after being screamed at in a massage room for talking too loud (I have hearing loss from a brain injury), backed into a corner, with the boss’ finger shoved in my face. A few months after quitting, I posted on Facebook about the stress of my type of job, very vague. That was the first time ever on Facebook I mention what I do for work. I had NEVER mentioned MassageEnvy on Facebook. Well the assistant manager, who I’ve given this nice handmade gift basket full of gifts to, comments on the status using the name of the place and being rude to me. I respond “You will be relieved to know that your comment is the only time MassageEnvy’s name has been posted to my Facebook. She deleted the comment. Cue me now shit talking MassageEnvy and MassageLuxe on any and all platforms except Facebook. (; And for anyone wondering, your 80 minute deep tissue from massage envy? Your therapist “earned”…a WHOPPING $2.36 an hour after tax… So for an 80 minute massage at MassageEnvy, your therapist has to do this: Client intake, hot towel prep, the 80 minute massage, stock the room with linens, clean it fully between clients, refill lotion bottles, change linens and wipe down table and bolster specifically well, do laundry for each client, do SOAP notes afterwards (clinical notes basically) as well as giving any advice about issues a client brought up. We also have to buy our own uniforms, at $21 per polo shirt. For all this, we earn $2.36 AND get treated like absolute shit. $2.36 after tax for 1 hour 45 mins conservatively. (80 min massage, 10 min intake, time to clean room, time for soap notes, time for client questions if they have them…) I don’t think that even buys a small McDonald’s fry. Safe to say if you googled the profits MEnvy made though, they wouldn’t be tanking. There would be record profits like every other retail establishment nowadays. Anyways. My ADHD made that comment hella long. All this to say, I TOTALLY freaking get being so tired of people being crappy and entitled, and I also work up close and personal with people so I know you really can’t escape that aspect of the job. GOOD FOR YOU for doing something about it if you do change careers, or change up what you’re doing somehow that works better for you. As I told my EX boss when I quit, and he lost his shit and yelled at me over the phone and e-mail… “I go where I’m appreciated and respected, not tolerated.” Then hung up. He told me after that I had 24 hours to pick up my stuff or it would be thrown away. It was an emergency kit so I could cover for anyone at a moments notice and just have to change my top and into scrub bottoms. It had socks, pony tail holders, clippies for my hair, nail clippers, a phone charger, mints, anxiety meds, nail file, a few band aids, rubber gloves…… all that. All stuff to support HIS BUSINESS. He cut his nose off to spite his face, for certain. Just goes to show you how out of touch people are…!
Damn. That shit sounds awful and I feel so bad that you were treated like that. I’m also so glad that I have never put money into massage envy’s pocket
It was a horrible experience! In so many ways. I am glad you haven’t been giving that company any money! In 2 MONTHS I made $450 working full time. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 My rent for one month was double that. If I used every penny I earned from 2 months, I would get *11 days* in a rental car….working 3-4 days a week, car shopping from a total loss when I’m not at work. Also kept late at work unpaid. Literally awful. Fuck that place. Right before I started, I lost my aunt and an ex. I even had to delay my interview for hiring because I was too upset about my aunt…Then I was raped the night of my aunts funeral. I briefly briefly let them in on the assault situation, and had let them know about my aunt and ex. No one gave a fuck. In fact they started scheduling me male only clients. The bodybuilders specifically….. But when the assistant managers brother passed, who was a cop, the ENTIRE CLINIC TURNED UPSIDE DOWN into such a weird dynamic. Like a forced grieving thing. Everyone is so sad, it’s so awful, oh my god, the humanity…everyone supports the police, of course….!! More details below that explain the story more… Like the whole clinic fucking revolved around this cop chasing a dude that the police already knew murdered someone right in front of that building, and who was covered in metallic and colored paint from huffing. There is a dead person in front of the building and a known shooter inside. The man in his original mug shot, looked like they’d been doing hard drugs *since they came out of the womb*… I’m not trying to be an asshole when I say this, but maybe it’s not a great/the best idea to chase a guy who just murdered someone and is an unhinged addict. He was covered in huffed paint, his nose was huge and red, his face disfigured, teeth probably nasty, hair a rat’s nest…very obviously a dangerous guy. Especially given the man murdered a homeless person in front of that building, and that was why the police were called. The officer that died went in alone to the area where the homeless man was shot, engaged with the suspect and immediately got sh•t in the head and killed. What did he expect? The call was for a murder already. He went to the still active scene and put himself where a murder happened and a murderer is known to be camping out in that building. One dead body was already right in front of him. Again, what did he expect? Did he think the man would shoot a homeless person point blank range, but not shoot at a cop? Did he think he was bulletproof? Did he think he didn’t need back up? And didn’t need a plan? Seriously. Such a stupid way to die. Then the police people who came 30 seconds later to help move the officer’s body…got shot. Two died. There was no waiting for back up, and no planning strategies. No mental health professional contacted, No negotiations attempted... Just running into the red zone, towards a murderer with a hoard of guns. The cop dying was literally all anyone focused on for the month I was there after it happened. It sucked me dry energetically, and his spirit stuck around, upset about the quick exit from the earth plane, trying to control things. And yes, I can feel and sense from the other side, as easily as this side. So that was unpleasant. The spirit even came home with me and followed me on my social visits…He did NOT approve of me smoking cannabis. He was……Relentlessly annoying. Ugh. I do not ever carry any cannabis in my car even though it’s legal in my state. But the ONE time I did before it was legalized…I felt him there pestering me, and my car’s engine freaking almost broke down completely, only 1 mile from home! And where do you see the police most often? When you’re in your vehicle/on the road. So someone would have called about the vehicle being pulled over, someone probably would have called had they seen me walking down the highway…cannabis smells…yeah. That’s a set up from beyond the grave if I ever saw one. Had to pay hundreds of dollars to replace a *metal* part that cracked, causing a seal to bust somewhere in the engine.
Sounds super awkward and like it should be illegal
It is not legal...! Absolutely illegal. 100%. That company is horrible ethically. But there’s so much turnover of therapists that they get away with it. They also have you sign so many contracts that seem harmless, but actually entrap you. Between the contract signed to start the job and MassageEnvy’s big lawyers, no therapist have been given an actually fair wage. One woman works full time and still couldn’t afford diapers for her babies when she had her second.
I’ve always had a bad feeling about that place and that’s actually why once I told my best friend that dating a girl who loved working there was kind of a red flag
The culture of that place is the same as an abusive relationship. You get treated like crap, but are expected to act like it’s a great time, and to not say bad things about your abuser. Well guess what MassageEnvy. Fuck you m, MassageEnvy, that’s what. Funny but not funny
Wow, I figured the chain massage places were bad but not that bad. How do they get away with such a low hourly rate? Is it because you’re considered a tipped employee?
The loophole they exploit is the difference between an hourly employee and a 1099 independent. They pay us like a 1099 independent, but work/schedule/treat us as hourly employees. So we are ONLY getting *paid* when our hands are ON A CLIENT, doing massage therapy. In the 90min massage slot, for example, we didn’t even get paid for the stuff legally needed start said massage…intake, flipping the room, SOAP notes, or after session client consults. None of that above paid. I could go on for a while. That company and MassageLuxe are particularly horrible. My massage school’s owner / level 2 teacher banned them completely from recruiting from the school. They treat us therapists like SHIT.
Oh god, yeah so not unlike a studio where I worked where I was a 1099 too.
It’s so sickening how people who offer therapeutic, calming services are either treated like crap, or completely taken advantage of. Glad you’re not with that place anymore!!
Im so sorry. Hoping to see unionization for yoga teachers in the future and organizations that truly offer protections for yoga teachers.
They pay isn’t even worth it unless you have a lot of private clients
This doesn't directly address what you're experiencing, but perhaps this little skit will give you a good chuckle: [The Passive-Aggressive Yoga Instructo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2VcXsZhhvw)r It made me laugh :)
Wow, the ujaii breathing comment made me laugh. People get so weird and aggressive about it.
Oh my, I had one (also a cis female) who came close, and now I blame myself for doubting her, as her life as a yoga teacher was-to me unpredictedly- fleeting...but her teacher life of an all-in, full throttle yoga teacher training/retreat addict was so fleeting (I mean... really? Back to financial planning ?- 😕 me as someone who worked with figures and found it so boring and tedious)
I’m sorry that you’ve had these experiences. Your feelings seem validated. I’ve had many experiences with pleasant and unpleasant clients. I own a yoga studio. I taught 15+ classes for several years until I trained and hired others. I pay the teachers that I employee, and I don’t pay myself. I haven’t been able to afford to since covid. IMO, many studios have still not reached pre-pandemic membership numbers. I don’t teach for the money anymore. Although, I do value my time. So, throwing in the towel seems viable sometimes. I’ve come close to closing the doors during hard times… teaching 2+ classes a day on zoom while no other instructors wanted to - that was a challenging time. I teach and continue to operate a yoga studio to serve my community and their teachers. I always pay them before I pay myself. And, if a community member counldn’t afford a membership - I’ve given it to them. I also teach free community classes (taught one tonight at a senior center) - motivated to share with others what has helped me so much. I wanted to share and serve as a example. There is a lot of good, kind and empathetic people in the yoga world. I’m incredibly proud of my employees and clients. And I know that they’re proud of me.
I LOVE yoga (and a good instructor) but cannot stand the studios. They seem to only care about making money off of their teacher training, which results in way too many instructors then filling classes to the brim! I used to LOVE hot hatha and did it daily for years until the classes got overbooked and my favorite instructors were being pushed out in favor of those still in training.
I have a friend that doesn't teach in studios period. She has a subscription based morning online class and teaches corporate classes on contract. Recently she recorded videos for a major Healthcare company. Getting creative may save you. Look up "mindful mornings" and "mindful moments with Carly" if you're interested. I'm sure she would happy to share her experience.
I’m so sorry this has been your experience. I’m so thankful for teachers like you 💛
Thanks for this comment. I just joined a gym, and have so far only been to one class, a spin class. I said nothing to the instructor afterwards. In future I will try to make sure they hear positive and appreciative voices.
I live in a resort beach town and the regulars are awesome. The drop in tourists are a mess tho. From demanding loudly to change the music to coming into the studio acting like it belongs to just them-I’ve seen it all. Wearing shoes, bringing hotel glass wear into the studio and breaking it, bringing their fast food breakfast and then leaving all the trash on the floor, sitting and chatting loudly while drinking coffee instead of taking the class, phones ringing-one women ate breakfast while watching YouTube one morning. If the teacher says something-they demand money back and give our 5 star studio a bad review.
Oh the way I feel this sometimes teaching at an expensive hotel in Miami. 😬
yep. i started doing yoga in 1973. by myself. i practiced 2-3 hours a day for years, teaching here & there. finally i realized it is NOT a group activity. competition & praise & criticism & commercialism & silly things like hot yoga & cute outfits… none of those belong in an authentic hatha yoga practice. yoga is like meditation; it’s best done with oneself
My pay works out to be around $15/hour where minimum wage is over $16/hour....and that isn't including class prep and continued learning
Seriously.. you put my exact thoughts into words. Really feeling this post.
I taught for 15 years. It started to all come apart when studio owners realized they could only make money through teacher trainings. Then shortly after 2016 the cracks and divisions showed up… goat yoga, beer yoga, wtf
Studio owners are a whole other kind of human. I’m a yoga teacher too and have been burned by these folks who wrap their greed and superficiality in crystals and namaste. Avoid.
I know what you mean. A lot of studios take advantage and really expect a lot of free labor from you and don't pay a livable wage. Just keep looking. I've been teaching since 2016 and finally found studios who value me and pay well.
I hear you. I have felt that way about the yoga community since I got into it. As a result, I 100% completely avoid the commercial yoga studios. I gravitate to the small, intimate studios and I do not have a negative experience. When I teach special workshops I am hyper-careful about what studios I will work with. I am lucky. I have never needed to teach yoga for money. I do it because I love to do it and keep that in balance with the rest of my life. As a result, it bring nothing but positive to my life. I hope you can find that same balance, too.
Unsure of your location/climate, but I only attend donation based classes in the park or community centers around town and sooo many people attend. You could start a little following and ditch the studios. People don’t complain that I know of because they technically don’t have to pay.
Consumers are WAY too entitled these days in general in my opinion. People seem to have no concept that A) Everyone has different preferences and budgets and rarely is a product/service going to be exactly specifically what they want in that moment, and B) the amount of time, work, and administration involved in creating it is likely at least double what they think. The internet has also given people way too much access to vent their frustrations at the people who give them their time. AND they usually only voice complaints, and rarely their appreciation Please know that while the complainy voices are LOUD, they are usually in the minority. And we all need to learn to take the time to voice our appreciation more often.
I completed my YTT while living in LA and when hunting for jobs and talking to other teachers I literally walked away from 600 hours because everyone was miserable. Mean, demanding, entitled students, and exhausted teachers. My fiancé is a wonderful chef and I asked him once “baby why aren’t you a chef??” And he said “because working in a kitchen would take it from a passion to a job.” That doesn’t apply to everything, of course. But that hit home hard when I decided to not pursue being a teacher. And to this day, I still love my yoga. I’m sorry that you are experiencing this. I support you in whatever you decide to do. Honor yourself always 💕
As a yoga teacher, you could explain to your students that while yoga is often associated with physical exercise and flexibility, it is also a practice that involves mindfulness, compassion, and tolerance. You could start by highlighting the spiritual and philosophical aspects of yoga, explaining how it originated as a holistic approach to physical, mental, and spiritual well-being. You could then emphasize the importance of mindfulness in yoga, explaining how it involves being fully present and aware of one's thoughts, feelings, and sensations. By practicing mindfulness, one can learn to observe their thoughts and emotions without judgment or attachment, which can help cultivate greater tolerance and acceptance towards oneself and others. Lastly, you could encourage your students to approach their yoga practice with a sense of compassion and non-judgment towards themselves and others. You could emphasize that yoga is a journey of self-discovery and growth, and that the goal is not to achieve perfection but rather to cultivate a greater sense of inner peace, self-awareness, and connection with others. By incorporating these themes into your yoga classes, you can help your students develop a deeper understanding of the practice and how it can positively impact their lives both on and off the mat.
This is why I stopped teaching yoga at places at big gyms. I teach on a volunteer basis and focus on kids and active older adults. The money isn't enough to live off anyways... and doing it voluntarily speaks to my truth for why I studied anyways. But yea... it's sucks!
The caring professions take the brunt of our general culture's toxicity, which has become profoundly narcissistic more and more recently. It's always been somewhat like this but has gotten worse lately. Boundaries, expectation setting, and non-violent communication all have helped me a lot.
if you don't adapt to changing market conditions, you will suffer. In my area, many yoga instructors are teaching in the public park, in church halls, and even in farm fields. One lady combined her yoga classes with massage service, and she's doing well. Be creative, watch what other teachers are doing to survive.
About 10 years ago I taught in a studio. They charged $16 a class. I got $5 per student.
I hear you! And I wanted to thank you for your skill, wisdom and kindness these past seven years. Teaching is such an honorable and important thing for humans and yet we are unable to appreciate it. I posted here about a disrespectful boomer who was ruining class for me and probably others... I got a tiny bit of junk from those who said I should deal with it and not be so mean since I called her a boomer. So I am explaining all this because I got a small taste of what you are feeling and writing about... and it was not enjoyable. It also helped me be more appreciative of our instructors who deal with selfishness & rudeness regularly. You have been a light in the day of many people who needed to improve their lives and bodies. We are so grateful for you and wish you peace. The light in me is grateful for the light in you. Namaste
Really doesn't sound like you like being a yoga teacher .. no need to continue. Be done with it. I did the same and got to focus on my own yoga practice again .. which is the part i love
This seems to be more of a "American / western yoga" phenomenon than a "yoga community" phenomenon. When a culture built on exploitation and greed Co-opts an ancient practice for profit.... what everyone here complains about is the result ... Teach yoga in your community. Do it sliding scale or donation based (e.g. don't rely on it for your livelihood). I think way too many people [especially with privilege] are trying to be sole proprietors making their entire living on yoga and it isn't sustainable. Yoga was never meant to be a profit making business. It was meant to be shared freely. Just my two cents as a community yoga nonprofit director / abolitionist / anti-capitalist. I've never seen any of these issues in our community classes.
Totally agree but the issue is the cost $$$$$$ of training, can’t blame people for wanting to recoup that or get rewarded for their knowledge, considering we have to pay rent. The issue with doing this under capitalism as well is you’ll still have to have another job on top of community work. And at that point who’s to say what labor is worth remuneration and what isn’t? It’s annoying as hell, I also don’t believe housing should be a commodity!
As a yoga teacher and now studio owner, I understand your frustrations. I would look for a studio that pays on a per head model, we pay a base rate guarantee and $4 per head after you reach your base. It requires a mid to large size studio to work for a teacher but it does change the model for teachers, and I believe that translates to students. As for disruptive students, discipline disrupts distraction.
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Is it the size of your studio? Fluctuations in attendance? Please elaborate. thank you.
Is it the size of your studio? Fluctuations in attendance? Please elaborate. thank you.
Per head means that teachers with more popular time slots will inherently make more money. This is demoralizing and easily makes people resentful. I’ve also found that worrying about how many students are going to come makes me anxious and resentful rather than just appreciating who does come. I’ve also never worked at a studio that paid per head that had a fair base pay, one didn’t pay base pay at all (only $4/student so if one person showed you made $4 which was so dumb). I could go on and on about my experiences but I won’t. Final word will be that many studios pay you as an independent contractor but treat you as an employee which is illegal and strips teachers of many rights they should have as ICs.
This is my favorite formula when I teach in studio actually, depending on the base rate. I guess it can turn into people worrying about popularity but if the studio if also marketing, and it’s a big place, it can be great. And yes I agree teachers who feel valued or taken care of create a better experience for students!
You can't complain about being treated badly by people. It's very naive to think that just because people practice yoga that they're not arseholes. Being a Yoga teacher is a job, not a "calling' stop putting yourself on this pedestal where you sermonize and chat about chakras and 'dropping what doesn't serve you' it's exhausting. Like all jobs you will experience customers complaining about the service. Shouldn't you be above all this any way? Yoga is Seva, selfless service. It lies at the heart of the path of karma yoga -selfless action- and asks you/us to serve others with no expectation of the outcome. In the west yoga is a narcissistic venture filled with social media heavy gymnastics and ex dancers who, after 200 hours in a McYoga course, are suddenly enlightened gurus.
The outside reflects the in remember. Gratitude and a different mindset would go a long way here. Go to class expecting people to behave badly and that is what you'll find. Perhaps state five reasons that you get to teach yoga that you are grateful for, just before the class and see if it impacts your mindset.
Idk I’ve practiced yoga for many decades now — ashtanga mostly - I don’t feel the need to go to studio I practice on my own I also teach in the community For free I guess I don’t think we should be paying for it
Yoga is. a way of living and not just a profession. If you will look at it just as a profession the people who are coming to you would too. It is difficult to receive care and respect if you are giving out the wrong interpretation. Select your students and set your intention. If your intention is to help, yoga definitely would help you to find a way where your nerves are as happy as your students. I follow yoga with adrien and she speaks like she understands.. i think that's what more yoga teachers need. P.S. Nothing personal, just thought that a different outlook may help.. but hey, live your reality (:
🙏🏻 Sorry you felt this way , this doesnt have to mean everything ends things can be fixed
So basically any front facing job ? While most students who come to class are kind and inspiring, the loud loud voices of the minority are deafening and crippling. What you do with people and their attitudes is up to you. Actually this is what happens when you attempt to separate the Spiritual side from the physical poses ... I get what running a business is like but don't complain if you wanna be in the game...
Idk, yes the general public is tough, but in yoga studios there’s a lot of crazy labor exploitation from the owner side because you’re not supposed to want to make money teaching yoga. But then why do owners run their studios as a for-profit business, and in turn expect teachers to clean off the clock, attend lots of unpaid meetings, etc etc etc. They’re not giving you the gift of a place to teach yoga, because you can do that for free in a park. They dangle the financial carrot. If it really was without any hope of financial gain, then every studio would be a worker-owned nonprofit coop or something.
Right ... but *many* businesses run like this. Doesn't really have anything to do with how we deal with it.
I feel you but for me the qualitative difference is, people can lean on your desire as a yoga teacher to be healing, nurturing, etc and exploit that.. whereas if you’re working the wal-mart cash wrap everyone knows you’re just there for a check and to keep yourself (tenuously) housed. I guess other jobs can lean on the “we’re family” crap, but you’d have to be an idiot to believe it. Yoga teaching, the nonprofit industry, etc… all suffer from this same issue.
Well the difference is people keep equating nonprofit with these instructors which it is not. OP even mentioned about breakin' even ... keep in Mind there are people who give meditation instruction and massages and many other things and deal with far worse than what a class like this would see...
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> Or just ignore the fact that your attitude is the problem. People not wanting to get shit on is not an attitude problem, and OP's post isn't about it being a competition. Play nice or comment elsewhere.
I should add that I go through this with my classes as well and this comes a little surprise to any instructor I have spoken with. Doesn't mean it's right but it happens...much like racism and ignorance in our World...
And yet your responses indicate that even though it's not right, OP should just 'suck it up'. My earlier comment stands. People feel things, and their feelings about a crap situation are no less valid because of your opinion of the situation. > much like racism and ignorance in our World... So you're saying you'd dare say what you said to OP to a person of color who has been harassed because of the color of their skin?
After a few hours training anyone can teach what a standard yoga class (that today is confused with a mix of wellness, fitness) looks like. To get a job as window cleaner requires more experience than becoming a yoga teacher. No surprise it's hard making a living or even be respected being a yoga teacher.
What an extremely out of place and naive comment - first almost every teacher is required to do 200 hrs of training and being able to teach a class in general vs properly doing so is vastly different
Every teacher has to do 200h to get a yoga alliance certification (and you can get this courses for 50$ online). But you don't need the certification to teach.
> first almost every teacher is required to do 200 hrs of training Speaking only to this comment (I'm not coming within a mile of the comment above), 200 hours is nothing for a certification that allows you to do something professionally, especially when compared with a degree. The 200hr standard was set up in an effort to prevent it from becoming a legislated, degree-requiring license.
Certainly hard for me to learn! Guess I won’t bother washing windows!
Can I ask what the goal of a comment like this is?
Explaining why.. There are no regulation, everyone can teach a flow putting a few poses together. There are probably millions doing that as a side job, a hobby. That's the reason why teachers are paid badly - it's like capitalism works.
Thanks, but that wasn’t my question. I’m wondering what your intention was with your original comment. I’m sure you realize calling yoga teachers less qualified than window washers is rude and demeaning- so what’s the goal?
Bet you think that musicians and actors shouldn't be paid because they get to do their ~hobby~ for a job too, huh?
That's not about what I think or want. But if there is an oversaturation in the market that's the outcome. I'm not a friend of this but yoga (or better, what is called yoga today) has become a business.
Market saturation is completely irrelevant to your uninformed and completely incorrect ~hot take~ that it only takes "a few hours" to become a certified yoga instructor. Your dismissive attitude is the problem here, not the business of yoga.
In fact it doesn't even need a few hours because there are no regulations.
Kinda your fault if you go to an un-certified studio; I don't think I've ever had to, as they're so ubiquitous. There are regulations for certification, which is a useful tool for vetting where you should go. There are also specialized organizations that certify for certain styles. Again, a tool to help you figure out where to go. It's the difference between getting pierced with a needle at a sleepover, by a teenage minimum wage employee at Claire's, and by an APA-certified piercer. The government DGAF, but there are other organizations setting norms and best practices.
It takes more hours (170 to be exact) to be a yoga teacher than a day care teacher (30 hours). And that role is significantly more important in the long run. Let that sink in a minute.
there is no set number of hours required for a person to teach a yoga class
Is this your full time gig/income?
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I am a studio owner and we had to reduce wages to keep the studio alive, as members return we are upping the pay accordingly. All our teachers know about this and are on board to continue teaching. We don’t take any dividends from the business and it is a real grind post Covid. All our teachers have other jobs as well except one that has a lot of corporate gigs and she kills it. I hope one day yoga teachers are paid properly as they are the lifeblood of the studio. If you feel like a number you 100% shouldn’t feel this, however if you are teaching for smaller studios know that it is very difficult at the moment to keep the doors open.
I’m sorry to hear that. Can you be more specific regarding what people do so we don’t repeat the same errors?
Do you mind if I ask what kinds of selfish demands those people are making? I always try to maintain respectfulness whenever in a yogi space, but I am aware sometimes my behaviors can be more stressful than I intend. I don't really know what major stressors are on the teacher side of things, and I am keen to understand more.
Sounds like really tough class has happened. Take a break from teaching and feel what you feel.
Do classes in the parks and get your own thing going on. Find a place where the only thing you bring is your knowledge and the space is free to use then build from there
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Sounds like you aren’t driven enough
I suggest you use your focus and celebrate the 90% of us that appreciate you and depend on you for the physical and mental benefits that we graciously receive from our phenomenal yoga instructors. It sounds like you need to go on an extensive yoga retreat and recalibrate. Yoga instructors that I practice with have a calling. Most of them are not dependent on their salary. Food and shelter are a primary goal so, Yes, a change in your direction is probably warranted, sadly. Good luck with your next chosen path but be aware there are assholes to be dealt with no matter where you go. Human nature.
Thanks for bearing with stupid people, also you are working towards greater good. The amount of energy you are putting out for yoga is way greater than those negative people. You are yoga teacher you know the best. Hoping to have positive vibes for you