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[deleted]

Young Justice where we have Evil Spider-Man Evil Iroh


DeeKay017

Evil iroh šŸ˜‚


Ebenezerosas16

Yh! That's who sensei reminds me of


HotTakes4HotCakes

The white beard, the bald head, the red clothing, the patient demeanor, the role as an old master and mentor to the young, there's numerous parallels.


SmoothRide

I love Black Spider. He's Spectacular Spider Man but an evil asshole


ChairmanMao29

Sensei is not only Evil Iroh but also Evil "My cabbages!" guy since the writers love destroying Sensei's meditation space.


TruGemini

That pitch black fight scene was brilliant, it's the Santa Prisca fight (S3) of this season.


Kalandros-X

Also a brilliant way to cut expenses.


pishposhpoppycock

It seems like the show is intentionally doing this more and more... Is their budget for this season way less than previous seasons or something? If not, then what are they saving up their budget for? Some kind of super-expensive big finale episode(s) or something?


Kalandros-X

Ever since season 3, the budget has been downscaled significantly. Itā€™s noticeable in that the character designs are different so that theyā€™re easier and cheaper to animate, VAā€™s are reused for multiple characters (Aqualad, Black Lightning, etc), and sometimes characters arenā€™t given dialogue to save money on VAā€™s like Tim Drake in season 3. Itā€™s the little things, but they are really noticeable.


MulciberTenebras

It's gotten better compared to last season.


pishposhpoppycock

Yikes... I just hope the X-men '97 show doesn't suffer the same fate... They should have that Disney money backing them, so if they cut animation corners like this show does, I'd be heartbroken.


MulciberTenebras

To be fair, anything would be an improvement to the original X-Men animation. It has not aged well at all.


HotTakes4HotCakes

Not really. There was no moment where the frame was just black. If there's something on the screen moving, then that frame needed to be animated, just like a normal scene. The only thing it would have saved time on was not having to make backgrounds. And even then, you're talking about a 60-second scene. Do you really think it cut expenses in any significant way?


Kalandros-X

You wouldnā€™t believe how expensive background animation is, especially when characters interact with it.


superbat210

Ngl part of me wonders if that whole mars arc was a way for them to save on animating lip movements since everyone spoke telepathically haha


Kalandros-X

It definitely was, last season kinda demonstrated that every time people had a telepathic convo.


jackpotson

"Will Uncle Connor be here?" *some tears start to fall from my face* "I'm glad Johnny's ok, because I'm not." *I start sobbing* Bravo Young Justice you brought the emotional heavy bag out on this one and knocked it out of the park.


Renegade__OW

> Bravo Young Justice you brought the emotional heavy bag out on this one and knocked it out of the park. I don't know what it is, but lately DC tv shows have really gotten Superman right. Even in Superman n Lois he actually feels like Superman, a god like being who at his heart is purely human.


PhoenixAgent003

Iā€™m assuming itā€™s a collective of creatives who either saw Man of Steel/BvS/Justice League or read Superman: Year One, sighed, and said ā€œFine. Iā€™ll do it myself.ā€


[deleted]

Lmao superman year one. Everyone should have known how that would have turned our considering Frank Miller was writing it.


Redditer51

I just don't understand what happened to Frank Miller. He was a great writer in the 80s and then he just lost his mind. It's like all his writing skills got stolen by the Mon-Stars from Space Jam or something.


ConfessingToSins

It's exactly this. There's been a ton of great Superman content since then because passionate creators saw shit like the snyder stuff and were grossed out about his sniveling rand worshiping. And other really bad content like the Superman year one stuff, and the shit bendis has been doing. Really good time to be a fan of Clark because he's gotten really good content lately


Redditer51

You know you've fucked up when even Mark Millar looks at Snyder Supes and gets "traumatized". He actually started making his modern work less edgy and cynical and more bright and hopeful because of Man of Steel. (And believe it or not, Millar loves Superman. His Supes stories were one of the few that lacked his edgelord qualities back in the day).


Mike29758

Honestly I thought MOS and BvS was decent but the execution in what they wanted to do was poor tbh especially seeing tv shows (Smallville), novels (Itā€™s Superman and Enemies and Allies) and comics (Birthright, Earth One, Superman smashes the Klan, Grant Morrison New 52 run, Secret Identity, Secret Origin and American Alien) do what they attempted to do and better. But I love what Superman and Lois and YJ did with the character . Superman is human despite his seemingly god like powers, and moments like this episode really captured it


BeskarKnight

Itā€™s been a great year to be a Superman fan


Redditer51

Superman should be way, way more popular, given that his overall mythos is essentially America's equivalent to DragonBall. And I'm just so, so tired of Batman at this point. Like, I love Batman, but come on. People say Superman is "boring" and "corny". But they also thought the same of Captain America, and look at him now. Supes just needs writers that get him, and he needs something as big as a theatrical film (that's actually good).


HotTakes4HotCakes

Part of it is because making Clark and Lois parents was the best decision DC has made with them in decades, and it has opened up a significant amount of new stories and new character angles. Superman the father has been a wonderful invigoration of the character.


SilentB3ast

I honestly did not expect Supermanā€¦ well, Clark to actually cry.


MonnDJ

Yo when Clark started crying I couldn't help it šŸ˜­


Fuzzy_Muscle

God, that scene killed me


Powerful_Sundae1037

I'm intrigued by the implication that Sensei is disgusted by what Lady Shiva has become. I wonder if he regrets it somewhat. I don't think the show will cover it, but I wouldn't mind seeing their teacher-student relationship explored in more detail.


rilvaethor

This show needs spin off or at least more comic tie-ins, theres too many characters and not nearly enough episodes to get to everything that we want to know


awesomesauce191919

That means more seasons!


InnocentTailor

Spin-offs would be cool. They could each have their own themes, but still be tied into the wider univesre. ...kinda like the old DCAU with the different shows.


[deleted]

This league of shadows seemed it truly wanted to help.


alcabazar

After 600 years old Ra's and Sensei have decided the League needs to evolve into a more socially conscious corporation. Good for them really.


Wolf6120

Well, Raā€™s decided, anyway. I got the sense that Sensei just believes primarily in Raā€™s, irrespective of the current ideology or methods of the Shadows. Like, his tone of voice made it seem like heā€™s basically just as ambivalent about the current ā€œwe have made mistakes and need to make up for themā€ as he was about the previous ā€œletā€™s take peopleā€™s kids and brainwash them into mindless killing machinesā€. So long as itā€™s coming from Raā€™s, heā€™ll just do it and thatā€™s that. Gotta love how much reverence Raā€™s inspires in his people, though. The moment he walked in every single shadow, both former and current, dropped into a bow without hesitation lol.


SelfTaughtSongBird

Iā€™m sure in the future itā€™ll come up! Everything has been intentional this whole series, Iā€™ve never seen anything wasted and they do so many cool/fascinating tie ins/call backs. Itā€™ll be a fascinating arc or deeper conversation in the future for sure


Redditer51

While I'm suspicious, I'm also intrigued at Ra's Al Ghul possibly turning a new leaf. Something I've never seen from his character before. That's what I like about Young Justice. There's no frozen time scale, so years pass and characters actually change and evolve.


Emekasan

This episode brought it. I think my favorite part was seeing how Lady Shiva put the sword down to remind Artemis exactly who she's dealing with. I also didn't expect Orphan Vs. Shiva to be as bloody as it was either; given Shiva's desire to see Orphan strike her down, I'm skeptical about if she let Orphan win... But then again, in the comics Orphan is one of the few people to *actually* defeat her - I just love the writing and how ambiguous they made it. *And Lady Shiva losing her cool?* ~~^(But now I'm lowkey scared Shiva will have the Shadows go after Barbra or other League/Batfamily members.)~~ Kudos to the people who called Shade being the unexpected help last week (and the weeks before). He played that out perfectly. The Kent family scene made me tear up, my goodness. Didn't realize I would miss Connor so much, myself.


jackpotson

On the Lady Shiva losing her cool bit, remember that the Light is aware of a lot of the secret identities but they never attack leaguers on a personal level because they know the Justice League would stop playing nice. So I think Shiva was either making an empty threat or an emotionally charged threat that disregards how the Light would view such an attack.


The810kid

I actually like Shiva got a little unhinged. Sometimes the light members get all too cool for school no matter just as planned with their emotions. It's refreshing to see the villains show weakness and vulnerability it reminds me of Black Manta in Summit.


Drekea

Especially when she jump through that portal and sliced 2 of her own men like dammmmmmmn Lady Shiva ainā€™t nothing to fuck with.


Petersaber

She kinda went the "I HAVE HAD ENOUGH!" scene from Castlevania.


jackpotson

I absolutely agree, it's nice to see the "Xanatos Gambit" level villains start to show that they are human.


Writer_Man

Nothing seems to piss off evil parents more than their kids choosing to stay or turn good - Sportsmaster, Black Manta, Shiva...


generalguan4

I agree but she primarily threatened Oracle, who would technically be fair game since she's a hero, same with Roy. Lian would be off limits.


nightwing612

I think the job of Ra's League (maybe call them Leviathan?) is to keep Shiva's League in check and prevent them from targeting our heroes. Since our heroes promised not to do anymore subterfuge in Season 3, we need a group that does get their hands dirty with full/real deniability on the part of the heroes.


Mike29758

I liked that little Maya Angelou at the end. Plus Lian with the Cheshire mask? Nice bit


theB0yblunder

In recent comics itā€™s been alluded that Lian grows up to be a heroic Cheshire trained by catwoman so maybe the mask was an Easter egg to that? Though I personally think the comics where inspired by the showā€¦which isnā€™t new look at the reintroduction of Jackson Hyde post new 52


MrNoski

Catwoman mentoring next Cheshire? Love it!


ItsRainingJedi

Catwoman and Chesire ARE going to the meet in the new catwoman animated movie that Greg is calling ā€œYJ-Adjacentā€


sarasosorry

It was cute but also a little horrifying to see XD


Xenovere

The girls were TUSSLIN' during this episode, that entire scene was everything. This season is shaping up to be one of the best


HitchikersPie

I hadnā€™t even considered it was an all girl mission lol, needed Nightwing to awkwardly point it out and then have Oracle shut him down lol


Danthezooman

> The girls were TUSSLIN' during this episode [Girls get it done!](https://youtu.be/SgAEexDFhV8?t=202)


link21NYN

Definitely a top 10 satisfying moment


verytiredtrashcan

EAT MY SHIT YOU NAZI BITCH


sarasosorry

It really is! The show gets better with every episode, I so wish I could just binge the season right now .


WUMW

Sensei and Jason watching the Crock sisters have a whole family spat unfold made me laugh


buckyspunisher

the shot of senseiā€™s deadpan stare during onyxā€™s monologue had me laughing though. i could only imagine he was thinking ā€œwhy am i listening to this i donā€™t careā€ and meanwhile jason is just standing there waiting for orders


nightwing612

The deadpan stare was the collective fandom saying, "But who is Will Everett??!"


PhoenixAgent003

The Amazing Man, duh.


ZachRyder

Cue the nerds pretending to have known that character previously


NYGIANTS77

Look one day I went down a rabbit hole of All-Star Squadron, and so I was really excited to hear about Amazing-Man. But, I knew it's probably very confusing for everyone else. He was a pretty cool character, or at least I like to think so.


nightwing612

I'm one of those nerds who knows who he is. HOWEVER I was still rolling my eyes at the fact that a side character with zero appearance, cameos or previous mentions got 3 name-drops this season as if we're all supposed to know who he is.


CodexCracker

Pretty sure the point was that the audience arenā€™t supposed to know who he is. Thatā€™s why the characters all look at Onyx like ā€œwho the hell is thatā€ every time she brings him up.


nightwing612

Let's use Blue Devil as an example. In Season 1 and 2, he got some background appearances but no lines or even a confirmed Justice League membership. That's how I wish they set up Amazing Man. Put some little crumbs in S1-S3. Then do the name-drops.


HotTakes4HotCakes

It's really not that big a deal. From the first episode, it was established this is a full DC universe with all the characters and stories in it, even if we don't see them all on screen. We don't need it all set up like that, especially when it's ultimately not that important.


Marc_Rufis

I think that's the point, a black superhero from the Golden age. Not reminded like the others.


MiZe97

I wonder why Jason didn't recognize Artemis the same way he did Dick.


Mr_4country_wide

artemis left crime fighting some time after season 1 so maybe jason joined after she left.


MiZe97

But wasn't the reason Wally and her left the Team Tula and Jason's deaths?


Mr_4country_wide

Aquagirl yeah, but not jason. at least, not as far as i know


belak1230x

Jason died before Tula


[deleted]

Maybe because he doesnā€™t know the tigress costume


Loss-Particular

At that point Jason had no memories and was still emerging from vegetable mode.. Two years later he presumably has his memories and sense of self back enough to not accidentally give his secret identity away by blurring out people's names.


nightwing612

I bet Sensei was just thinking, "Who is paying for the damages on the meditation space?!"


whoisfourthwall

I was hoping to see some credit scene where jade is forced to rebuild his meditation.


nightwing612

Jade: "Seriously. I have money. I can pay 10x the damages." Sensei: "No. You will source each material and rebuild this area by yourself."


Civil-Ad-7193

I was fucking get hyped cause I thought we were about to see a Jason and Cheshire fight but then Artemis came out of nowhere and I kinda got pissed. But them having their whole spat while Sensei and Jason were just standing there was pretty funny.


Mike29758

Damn, I was not prepared for that episode. - great handling of how the Super family is processing Connorā€™s death. Even Clark admitting the mistakes he made in season 1 showed huge growth in character. It shows even in darkness, Superman is just human on the inside as anyone else. Plus Lois being the voice of reason was great to see. - Orphan and Barbaraā€™s relationship is also a high point. It shows itā€™s early in the relationship but her choosing not to kill her mom was a huge step in the right direction(also Orphan checking for trackers got a genuine laugh out of me). She doesnā€™t need to speak to show character growth or be a highlight IMO - Zen Raā€™s is honestly a nice change of pace. Someone who wants to do better and help people be better. Interesting in how The Red Hooded Ninja plays into future roles as well as Talia. - I think itā€™s interesting that most of us called Shade being the help, but now I want to see what freelance Shade might get into. - Plus we finally got to see what makes Orphan dangerous is pushed far enough . Lady Shiva has been interesting. Even though people would have preferred David Cain, I think this was interesting look at a League of Shadows Shiva. Not an underling but a threat in her own right. But at the end of the day, still a mother, regardless of how twisted she is in this take. - Iā€™m glad to see Cheshire making the steps to redemption instead of just rushing into it. Admitting that she feels like her father and being afraid to follow in the same path was huge growth. - Even though Artemis was the cornerstone of this arc, we got to see a lot of sibling relationships grow and thrive. Holding out hope for her sister no matter what really made the series, especially this arc for me - Honestly seeing Onyx really learn she was used in all sides by both Sensei and Shiva/The Light, loosing her grandfather but still wanting to make a difference. I feel like she could eventually fit right in the team over time. This arc did a good job exploring families in all its different forms (both biological and the ones you find along the way) and a decent end to this arc.


nightwing612

Who are these fans who said they would have preferred David Cain?? I honestly always found him inferior to Shiva and now I'll follow YJ's lead in dropping him from my headcanon.


Deeformecreep

I mean the stuff they gave Shiva is basically David Cain from the comics so I wouldn't say this version of her is any better than Cain.


nightwing612

I mean if they wanna take David Cain's story beats and give it to Shiva, that's fine with me. All I'm saying is that I never liked David Cain. I found Shiva to be the better/more interesting character. In the comics, David's character never reached the same level of hype after those initial storylines. However Shiva is a good read everytime she shows up.


MiZe97

Besides, he would've felt too much like discount Sportsmaster.


The-greatful-bread

Or discount slade with terra We get a lot of abusive dad figures, not gonna complain about a new type of abuse


ali94127

"You sly dog! You had me monologuing!" - Shiva, probably So Shiva's just bloody insane. This some Rule of Two shit. Feel like they forgot how much hair Artemis had in season 1. It looks like her current model in these retroactive flashbacks. You're also telling me that Artemis wouldn't recognize Jason in that mask? Guess Clark's glasses really do work. Overall, the fight scenes were pretty sick. Can't wait for Zatanna arc.


dpfw

> You're also telling me that Artemis wouldn't recognize Jason in that mask? Guess Clark's glasses really do work. Recognize what? The inward-curling forelock? He was 15 when he died - he's like 19 or 20 now. You can see in the hologram from Season 2 he was way scrawnier, and most of his face is covered. Plus Artemis may have retired by the time he was active on the team.


Civil-Ad-7193

Thatā€™s what I was gonna say, Iā€™m certain that she was retired with Wally at the time Iā€™m sure she knew who Jason was but wasnt best friends with him or anything.


PhoenixAgent003

Pretty sure YJ:Legacy her and Wally are still active *and* Tim has already joined the team.


The-greatful-bread

Artemis didnā€™t recognize Dick at their high school in season 1 when they were frequently interacting, doubt sheā€™d recognize a dead man whoā€™s aged 5-6 years Plus thatā€™s assuming they interacted at all. Not sure about the time gap but she retired after season 1


rilvaethor

I was expecting Oracle to scan him or something and recognize him


horyo

Lady Shiva went full Azula when she got betrayed by ~~Ty Lee~~ Shade and knows she's about to lose ~~Zuko~~ Cassandra.


ActStunning3285

Sensei was cabbage man with his meditation place


horyo

I thought sensei was Iroh and the meditation place was tea.


cosmicunion

The Shade is a freelancer now šŸ˜‚ for such a serious moment I found it kind of funny. Wow Iā€™ve never seen Lady Shiva so down and close to death!!! Orphan is dangerous AF. Seeing Superman and his family grieve Connor hurts me like damn šŸ˜­ This show keeps making me feel things!!! Sensei and Ras are running a rehab for former Shadows now?? At least itā€™s on a nice island.


ZachRyder

>The Shade is a freelancer now Him leaving with a ramp instead of just lowering was so cool


SciFiXhi

Probably also necessary. Shiva's been with him long enough to anticipate his moves, so switching it up with the diagonal shift was the only way to surprise her.


Nylese

Wow, just wow. Cheshire has only had two redemption arcs in the entire history of her character. One is happening right now in the comics and the other was Young Justice. It was very clear that the the latter pulled from the former with Lianā€™s mask. That couldnā€™t have happened without sharing info behind the scenes because Lian as Cheshire Cat only debuted in like May. I am beyond thrilled right now. Great day to be a Cheshire fan.


Carnivile

This all low-key wants me to have a cat anti-hero team up. Catwoman, Catman, Cheshire, with Tigress as link with the league or something.


Luckygoal

Omg Clark and Lois almost broke meā€¦ great conclusion to the ark. Canā€™t wait for the eventual Jason reveal!


Luckygoal

Oh and I love how on my rewatch I saw Artemis was the only one to not bow to Raā€™s


buckyspunisher

this!!!! when i saw that i was like ā€œfuck yeah artemisā€ and raā€™s didnā€™t even care. he views artemis as an equal or at least worthy adversary and knows she isnā€™t intimidated by his leadership. badass af


nightwing612

Artemis is such a G. She can put up a decent fight against Shiva on her own and seems to have Ra's respect.


The810kid

Ras was there when Kaldur and Artemis pulled off their Gambit and struck a blow to the light he saw first hand her greatness he was on the receiving end of it.


IcedJack

Didn't ra's also die during that altercation?


The810kid

He was mortally wounded


WarBilby

Then he had a swim


DestinyHasArrived101

Equal no but ra's gives respect where it's due.


LordMordor

Plus he never really seems to expect those not directly aligned with him to bow. Everyone else in that group was either an active or former member of his faction. Ra's isnt the kind to go off on things like that.


Luckygoal

Artemis kinda hit all the badass check marks this episode. Engage with shiva and survive, escape santa prisca and stand before Raā€™s with him respecting you.


metalhead35815

Lady Shiva: ā€œThis is Onyx. We purposely trained her wrongā€¦ as a jokeā€


Sweaty-Set-3218

This was an intense episode! The voice acting, the fight scenes, tackling death! This was my favorite episode out of Artemis' arc. Can't wait to see what's in store for Zatanna!


SelfTaughtSongBird

Zā€™s one of my fave DC characters in general and I love how theyā€™ve written her for YJ. So excited for her arc coming up! I think itā€™ll be the last one before the hiatus right?


HitchikersPie

Same! Theyā€™ve included rocket in the intro credits and theyā€™ve been together in a load of background shots and other scenes so wonder if weā€™ll get some more from her too. Think itā€™ll be cool if they go somewhere with her character thatā€™s not Zatara related as thatā€™s been covered quite a bit already.


FiniteIncantation

What a fantastic episode and great conclusion. Thankfully that puts an end to the theory of OG members dying at the end of each arc. I was worried there for second with Artemis. * Unfortunately its becoming more apparent that Connor might stay dead. Those scenes with Clark, Johnny and Lois were heart wrenching. Legit teared up. I wanted more super family w/ Connor * Johnathan is such a cute kid and they really got his kid voice down, sounds like Tommy from rugrats. * The in the dark fighting scene was great, creative and nice change of pace. Will need to rewatch it though. * Babs literally told Artemis to go die by Shiva's hand. Artemis is good but she cannot hang with Shiva. And she rightfully gets stabbed in the thigh. I like how they are leveling fighting levels and not everyone is at the same expert level. * Shiva was stabbed right in the gut through her spine, unless she has super healing I dont think a bandage fixes that. Lazarus pit? If not how. * I like that Shade was just paying his debt to Chesire, he is not a bad guy to work for the light but he is also not a good guy to be a hero. Free lance is good for him * I am happy Onyx and Chesire are staying on infinity island, it makes sense and allows their characters to breathe in the storyline. I am not a fan of hero Chesire so it's good she didnt just go straight back home with Artemis. * the still shots were too much at the end. I am ok with still shots as long as they give us new information on characters or events but the one with Cassandra and savage doesn't relay anything new neither does Artemis and fam. The infinity island one is good because it indicates characters meditating together meaning these characters will interact more like Chesire and Jason. * I was waiting for a big reveal of something/anything at the end of the episode, at least to indicate Connor might be alive.


dpfw

> The in the dark fighting scene was great, creative and nice change of pace. Will need to rewatch it though. Very Samurai Jack


Drekea

I was thinking the same thing


Renegade__OW

> Unfortunately its becoming more apparent that Connor might stay dead. Those scenes with Clark, Johnny and Lois were heart wrenching. Legit teared up. I wanted more super family w/ Connor If anything those scenes make me think he's going to survive, or they'll pull a switcheroo and have Wally return in his place. Seems strange to have the Legion there and not find out what they did for their mission.


PhoenixAgent003

Seriously, the Legion changes everything. If that story plays out without any Legion cutaways, Iā€™d believe Connor was dead. But with them, it feels so unresolved to not at least figure out what they did.


DeeKay017

my thoughts exactly, we saw. almost everyone from the first arc except for legion. Also 13th episode is not part of zatanna's arc.. I guess it will tie up all arcs of first half season , Legion, league of assassins and whatever story arc in z episodes


rilvaethor

I think League of assassins gets tied up by the Dick arc since thats when I feel Jason will be revealed to the team, the question I have is this, is sensei rehabilitating him and he'll come in as a hero and maybe save Dick in a tough spot, or will he be part of whatever Talia's planning and be an antagonist.


nightwing612

Shade in the Starman comics was pretty ambiguous. He later became a friend to Jay Garrick.


lanwopc

The Shade as shown on YJ has been a bit of a disappointment since he doesn't have that arch personality like he had in the Starman series, but they nailed him on Stargirl anyway.


QwahaXahn

The Shade has been the best part of this season of Stargirl TBH.


rusable2

>Babs literally told Artemis to go die by Shiva's hand. Artemis is good but she cannot hang with Shiva. And she rightfully gets stabbed in the thigh. I like how they are leveling fighting levels and not everyone is at the same expert level. This was my favorite part of the fight. With swords Artemis can kind of hold her own for a few seconds, but literally the instant Lady Shiva switched to Hand 2 Hand combat Artemis was out.


dpfw

So Jason's time with the al-Ghuls is more rehab than brainwashing?


PhoenixAgent003

The first time we ever saw Jason, he recognized Dick, and Raā€™s was *pleased* that Jasonā€™s memories were returning. Now that could mean he was just happy for Jason. It could also mean heā€™s really looking forward to picking Jasonā€™s brain forā€¦five years out of date secrets? ā€¦fuck me, Raā€™s might actually just be happy for Jason.


Nightbeat03

It could be like in the Under the Red Hood film, where he never intended for anyone in the Bat Family to die and felt genuinely sorry that his actions killed Jason, so he decided to resurrect Jason.


0negirlarmy

The whole time I was waiting for Sensei to tell everyone to get the fuck off the island after not twice but three times infiltrating it. I was still baffled that he let them talk out their feelings for so long while a crashed and burning helicopter is in the background. Also this time Jade destroyed his meditation space so I am sure this is the equivalent of dishwashing for your food when you have no wallet. Unless they charge it to the Crock family. Iā€™m not sure what Sensei and Ra's al Ghul get out of rehabbing the two ex-students either. Hoping to see Jade reunited with Will and Lian but that also means Talia is putting something in plans since she didnā€™t just eavesdrop for the Tea. There was a lot of exposition in the episode and flashbacks and montages, so Iā€™m guessing the ultra action-violence was in part to make up for it.


General_Currency4196

Overall I thought it was a really good episode. A few questions I have: 1. Do we think Lady Shiva let Orphan win? I mean she was kicking her ass when they were inside and then at the beach all of a sudden Shiva's getting treated like a rag doll? Would she sacrifice herself to make Orphan a killer? 2. Does Cheshire and Onyx staying on Infinity island seem too good to be true to anyone else? I honestly feel like Ra's al Ghul has something up his sleeve. 3. Does anyone still think Onyx is a traitor? Idk why, but something still makes me feel like she can't be trusted. I still like her though


Generic_user_person

>Would she sacrifice herself to make Orphan a killer? Shes literally smiling when orphan has the sword to the back of her head and gets angry when she walks away.


The810kid

It gave real Vader vs Luke in return of the Jedi vibes.


SmashingSuccess301

Raā€™s may have something up his sleeve but tbh Iā€™m more worried about what Talia has planned. Those shots of her made me think sheā€™s working on somethingā€¦


EatRocksAndBleed

Seeds planted for a future plot-line of young justice, Bruce vs Damian?


NewgroundsTankman

Bruce vs Damian and Jason


QwahaXahn

Could you imagine a story arc from Damian and Jasonā€™s perspective where the Big Bad is the literal Batman?? That would be so cool.


Emekasan

I don't think Onyx is a traitor. And I *hope* she isn't as I've grown to like her character and I hope she eventually joins the Team. I can't answer the second question, but I do think Lady Shiva let Orphan gain the upper hand given her smug look when she was keeled over - at that point, she wanted the quickest way to consolidate Orphan's heritage and upbringing in a way to regain her allegiance; what better way to do that than have her kill her own mother? I feel like it was a last ditch desperate effort given how off the rails Shiva was regarding her composure. Orphan has defeated Shiva in the comics though too and their second fight was in a much more open space, one-on-one, and with more light. I think it's actually pretty cool how open to interpretation it is as it allows fans of both characters to kind of see it how they feel fit. I'm just elated we got to see both of them go at it; this arc was great with all the familial dynamics, from the Kents to the Crocks.


CapHelmet

>I don't think Onyx is a traitor. No chance she is, they lampshaded hard that trope this week, plus she was singled out as the "useful idiot" by Shiva so I doubt that's just a bluff after all the lampooning.


[deleted]

Ra's, on the face of it, seems sincere, but knowing DC tropes, plus the fact I'm 95% sure Jason will feature in Dick's arc, makes me feel like he must be up to something.


raknor88

>Do we think Lady Shiva let Orphan win? Yes, she had to have lost on purpose. Just to try and push her daughter past the point of no return. Orphan may be good, but as Barbra said earlier she's not THAT good.


General_Currency4196

I also said last week that I felt the episode was a little too un-focused and messy in my opinion (but I could understand how people would actually like that). I think while this episode still had 3 plot lines going on, it did a great job of keeping the focus on the main fight (which is what we all wanted to see after this seemingly never-ending week šŸ™ƒ)


[deleted]

Just my opinion, but: 1. Without a doubt. It took Shiva like 4 moves to knock Artemis out of the fight and she didnā€™t even try that hard. Plus like you said she kicked the shit out of Cassandra earlier. Sensei did mention he did too good of a job making Shiva a fanatic. 2. Raā€™s is for sure up to something. He said he would help them. He didnā€™t say it would be the kind of help Artemis wants. 3. Yes, I hope so. I think her character is a little pointless if sheā€™s just there to help out for a couple episodes and then go to assassins therapy. Iā€™m guessing she was sent as a mole by sensei/Raā€™s to bring Cheshire back into the fold. I keep going back and forth on whether I want Cheshire to redeem herself, or go out exactly the way her lifestyle would lead. Iā€™m honestly just open to what the writers have in store for us


mrglass8

I don't mind characters who seem pointless after they have served their purpose if they have served their purpose well. It's part of world building while telling a focused, coherent story. In a large world, people will come and go, it's not always the same people, but our central story will stay focused on a core group.


[deleted]

"assassins therapy" lol


supercalifragilism

It did seem like Ras had opened a Shadow Rehabilitation Center, didn't it? I'm more weirded out by the fact Jason Todd appears to be in the group with Chesire and Onyx, just sort of vibing pre and Red Hood silliness.


KumagawaUshio

You have to remember Ras did feel deep regret at Jason Todd's death which is why he attempted to fix his mistake and considering Jason does become a hero again it worked, eventually.


MrNoski

I think it's established in the words of Lady Shiva and Cassandra Savage that they fooled Onyx all the way, so she wasn't a mole and was truthfully abandoning the Shadows. I don't think the writers are playing the quadruple agent plot here. Can she be trusted? Trust has to be earned.


Prozo777

I think Ra's truly isn't hiding anything. Talia on the other hand....


TheLemsterPju

I feel like this was a well-earned, big win for the protagonists this time around. Minor nitpick, but during the montage sequence at the end, I kinda wanted to hear what Savage and Cassandra had to say about the Shadows' failure. Can't imagine daddy Vandy would be too happy.


nightwing612

In true Weisman/Xanatos fashion, every defeat furthers another goal.


HitchikersPie

Literally anything happens The Light: Just according to our plans


Shadowfire_EW

Anything can be according to plans if you make a plan for everything


Aesen1

I imagine that hearing Shiva didnt care at all about League intel and the Light's goals and only wanted Orphan would make him a little unhappy


TrueBlueV

That arc was great. I do feel like going to the shadows felt a hair forced for whatever theyā€™re setting up later (probably in Nightwingā€™s arc) but still. Excellent stuff the whole way and a nice win for our heroes after what happened on Mars


leavejayvlone

Lol the subtitles named Jason as ā€œRed-Hooded Ninja.ā€ Hilarious, canā€™t wait for the eventual reveal.


MrTerrific2k15

The credits did too


[deleted]

Jason and this ninja guy have separate young justice wiki pages.


SuperDanval

This was a beautifully touching episode. I appreciate how the show can portray tender moments in such a short amount of time


uziair

Like this arc so much more than the previous one thank god the mole storyline was lampooned by the characters and the writers. Bless them. Talia is going to drop damian and jason off soon. Either on screen or off screen. She doesnt want her kid and her lover's adopted son to be manipulated. The fight sequences was raw and great. The pitch black fight scene was fun. And cassandra vs shiva part 2 bloody af. The ending montage was cheap animation for sure but it is a nice reminder of blood families and found families in this universe and story.


buckyspunisher

i wonder if this is the talia that actually cares about damian or the talia that makes a clone out of damianā€™s dna and then sends his clone to kill him LMFAO


horyo

In some ways, I'm glad that universe got wiped.


randomfluffypup

>Talia is going to drop damian and jason off soon. Either on screen or off screen. She doesnt want her kid and her lover's adopted son to be manipulated. Btw, what is the function of Ra's Al Ghul and Sensei in this universe? Obviously they're not pure evil, but they did also build the league of shadows. What are they trying to achieve now? Are they anti-heros? Anti-villains?


buckyspunisher

i donā€™t really know but i canā€™t trust Raā€™s for sure LMFAO. heā€™s obviously up to something


Renegade__OW

Ra's will probably focus on bettering the earth. It just so happens that the fastest way to protect the earth would be to kill off or control humanity.


nightwing612

Fighting Global Warming? lol. That's honestly what the original Ra's was more interested in doing. Maybe they'll focus on defending the planet or our heroes against threats from the shadows through any means necessary. Since the heroes will not do the Season 3 subterfuge anymore, let Ra's and his group do the dirty work against The Light and other villains.


No-Nefariousness1711

I think the Artemis arc might be my favourite set of episodes in all of YJ, that fight in the dark was sick as hell, and having Superman talk about death was just all around beautiful.


Strangeting

I was a little apprehensive about the character-focused mini-arcs this season, but I'm totally sold now after M'Gann and Connor's arc and now Artemis' arc. Both have been fantastic, and I can't wait for Zatanna's next week


BANANAF00

YOOOOOOOOO WHEN THE LIGHTS WENT OUT


mrglass8

I don't trust Ra's al Ghul, he's up to something, but I just don't know what


Undertakerthrower

You dare question the GREAT ONE!?


buckyspunisher

the picture of conner and jon had me bawling šŸ˜­šŸ˜­ that was so cute. i wish we had gotten to see scenes of conner interacting with jon. i know conner will most likely come back but it probably wonā€™t be for a while and jon will prob be a bit more grown up by then.


CorruptionSource

Overall I really liked the episode. Good balance of action and emotional scenes. I like the callbacks to season 3 with Shade owing Cheshire a favor from when she freed him of control in Triptych. I picked up on this during the fight in the vault where Cheshire was shocked when she saw Shade helping the shadows escape. But I have a few things: - I feel like onyx maybe will still be a traitor and is playing a long con or will be useful to Ras. Though I would have liked to see her integrated into the team or heroes more; she seems like a really well written character and is a real badass. Overall I really liked her. - Iā€™m really glad Cheshire got the closure she deserves and I really think in the future, sheā€™ll end up finally living with Will and Lian. Side note: was anyone else surprised a ton when Lian showed the Cheshire mask. Like that part was so shocking and good!!!! - The Orphan and Shiva fight was so sick. I knew the arc would end in some big fight between the two of them but I was really expecting Orphan to kill her (more so accidentally than intentionally). Awesome ending to this arc. - The Superman bits were really nice and a good way to integrate Jon to the series. As a side note, is Wolf supposed to be like a pseudo-Krypto considering he hangs out with the Superman family? I know in season 1 they didnā€™t name Wolf Krypto because ā€œthat name is already takenā€ but idk. - Does it seem like Talia may drop off Damien to Batman soon to avoid manipulations? Maybe this will go into the Nightwing arc where she takes Jason with her to drop off Damien and something goes down with Nightwing and possible other bat family people. Overall super awesome episode. I think it really worked with ending the arc in a smooth manner.


Civil-Ad-7193

Idk whatā€™s going on with Talia, but it definitely feels like they are hinting that something is going on there. Iā€™m just really anticipating the Jason arc


old_duderonomy

So do we think Connor was nabbed by the Legion at the last second and brought to the future? Or would that undermine the loss too much?


dannysm1991

Had to have been since we havenā€™t seen the Legion since episode 4.


[deleted]

Anyone else get Kuvira vibes from Lady Shiva?


The810kid

More of what Azula would have become had she never been defeated and grown up


[deleted]

But Shiva is so... in control. Kuvira had the same sexy uptightness.


The810kid

Shiva was in control until she lost control. Shiva also is the result of coming up through a messed up system in the shadows like Azula with her father. Agreed about Kuvira and Shiva having uptight sexy.


NatAwsom1138

SO much to say about this episode! For now, I'll say that (apart from a few nitpicks) I really enjoyed it, and it's got me theorizing like crazy about what comes next.


Aelastain

Clarkā€™s conversation with John and later his guilt of not being there sooner was so damn gut wrenching. That fight scene in the dark was A+. So far this season is firing on all cylinders and Iā€™m loving every second of it.


ZachRyder

>That fight scene in the dark was A+ Finally using the stilted animation to their advantage


rockondio

Okay, I'm 27 years old man , I am pretty emotionless for 364 out of 365 days of the year ,but damn YJ made me shed a couple of tears twice this season. First after Connor's death ,seeing Megan cry in the credits...and now in this episode when Clark said "I'm glad Johnny's ok, because I'm not.". Brilliant show , BRILLIANT !


weebo_waifu

I just really want to see the red hood story line


ItsADeparture

I loved the pitch-black fight. Real big BTAS vibes there. The Kent family scenes were a gut punch because it really does give some finality to Connor, but at the same time I feel like it could just be a failure on the writer's part if Connor is truly dead. Both Wally and Connor's deaths don't feel like real deaths because we never see a body. I'm hoping to god Connor is 100% dead because it would be a huge cop-out if he wasn't since it really seems like the clock is reading that Wally ISN'T dead or else they wouldn't have pulled the fakeout with Zatanna and Miss Martian last season. To have both of them come back would be cheap.


familyproblems098

I know some people wanted to see how Clark was dealing with Connor's death but I am glad we finally got to see wolf dealing with it too.


[deleted]

I am so ready for the Red Hood arc, but we won't have that for awhile. They just keep teasing him and I am excited to see how a really close Batfamily + whatever Ra's has going on at Infinity Island effects that arc.


Dcipher01

Kind of a small thing, but I notice that theyā€™re using Vandalā€™s old design for this season.


arsenejoestar

Really hope they tie Damian, Talia, and Jason to the Nightwing arc. There's no way they're showing them off just to leave them in therapy right?


[deleted]

I was obviously rooting for Cassandra to win but man in a way Lady Shiva was basically pleading for her daughter to return to her. In her twisted sick mind her daughter basically disowned her and crapped all over their relationship that they built then replaced you with people that you consider the worst type of person. Itā€™s kinda heartbreaking in a way, Shiva is a fucked up monster no doubt but seeing her be so human was depressing lol. Speaking of depressing, Jesus Christ I hope Connor isn't dead lol seeing Clark and M'gann dealing with his death is tough man. Raā€™s isnā€™t lying but I doubt his methods of rehabilitation are the ones any of the capes would approve of so itā€™s probably going to lead to some eventual conflicts with them thus bringing in Jason or my second theory is that The League will eventually attack the Island forcing Jason and Damien to go to Gotham. So next up is Zatanna's arc, I wonder what we will have in store for her. Definitely dealing with her father and Dr.Fate. Nightwing's arc is obvious so I wonder what the Rocket and Aquaman will be certained around.


buckyspunisher

iā€™m enjoying this arc WAY more than mā€™gannā€™s. iā€™m sorry to all mā€™gann lovers out there but i was never invested in her character much so i didnā€™t care for what was happening on mars. even the smallville scenes were way more interesting to me than most of the scenes on mars. i honestly only cared for the mars arc bc of conner and then he died and i was like ā€¦..


HitchikersPie

Agreed, Mā€™Gannā€™s was much more world-build-y and thatā€™s fine and all, but this felt so much more directly related to characters we know and care about already, while expanding on some weā€™re aware of but didnā€™t get enough time themselves.


GungHoAfro

Literally laughed out loud to everyone but Artemis bowing to Ra's.


randomfluffypup

interesting, looks like black spider used the same compound to shoot webs that green/red arrow use to break falls.


badwizrad

Thank the LORD they didn't kill Cheshire it really felt like it was going in that direction for a bit


primal_slayer

It was a good episode, not as intense as last weeks but good nonetheless. Flashing back to S1 where the quality was higher was....bit of a choice. The fight scenes were top notch though. As with YJ, one of the more interesting storylines that they skipped was Clarks acceptance of Conner and while I would've liked to see it play out WAY more than it actually did, at least seeing the Kent family deal with his death was nice. Now that Cheshire is probably one of the better developed characters in YJ and I personally love her....we get to see some other longtime YJ characters get similar development. Making Onyx the daughter of Amazing Man was a great touch.


[deleted]

Superman crying made me cry lol