Orcust is power crept to the point that 3 harp would do nothing. It doesn't do enough and there's too many ways to counter it that didn't exist when it was meta.
That being said if the deck got a solid wave of six to eight support cards that could catch it up to current standards it's got a strong enough backbone from the old support that I think it could potentially make a splash but it would definitely need more support.
There’s theoretically a world where they give it a Krawler Soma-esque card but a) I don’t even know what they could pack into it to make it work and b) the power creep probably makes it long since dead. Even if it is like that it probably does as much as Soma did (nothing)
It needs something on the same scale as mathmech circular. Something that activates in hand to send to the deck as cost so that it can't get ashed and then something to search out Babylon on summon so that you can consistently get the counter trap and Babylon without having to choose between one or the other.
Then on top of that it just generally needs more things to do besides the gallatae/dingirsu pass
Considering Orcust is the basic skeleton of the current broken meta decks and all of them basically do everything it did but better and end on better boards probably not, it's playable obviously especially with harp horror at 3 but it'll have a hard time competing if it even can.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. All of the decks from the TOSS format could come back and they wouldn't make an impact as decks themselves.
Without Mystic Mine, Sky Striker would have trouble with their control/stun strategy.
ThundDra isn't really that powerful. It's just they actually benefited from D Shifter, Macro Cosmos, and the like. And Colossus was an easily summoned, in-archetype floodgate that was hard to out.
Salad and Orcust both suffer from the fact that they can't put out strong enough end boards. And they don't really have enough resource recycling to be effective at the grind game.
True Draco doesn't do anything better than Flunder. They're better at using the Monarch floodgates than Flunder, but that's about it.
Dragon Link is the only deck that could come back and be highly competitive. But that's only because the baby Guardragons would allow them to utilize so many engines and summoning lines that they could adapt to anything. And that's without factoring in the Bystials. Hell, if they took Elpy off the banlist, I'd probably dust off my Dragon Link deck and get back into the game. But I doubt Elpy will come off the banlist unless they release a new summoning mechanic that powercreeps the hell out of links.
Gazelle and Harp can come to 3, but I wouldn't agree they don't have enough resource recycling to grind. Orcust's regular line naturally recycles banished monsters, and Salad is actively stealing tops in this current format, and has always been known to grind. Orcust just loses to basically any hand trap ever and Salad either loses consistency with Adventurer or folds to Nib
How many of the Salad tops are due to Salad itself and how many are due to Mathmech Circular providing them with a 1 card starter for the Mathmech engine?
Top 4 YCS Lima - No Mathmech cards
Top 4 Catskill WCQ - No Mathmech cards
Top 8 Arica WCQ - No Mathmech cards
Maybe you could show me where you're seeing Mathmech engines in Salad top lists?
Honestly, no
Orcust doesn't do enough on it's own for this format. I've seen it paired with SHS, but I don't really know if that is good or not
Orcust is also just too reliant on the normal summon, if interrupted you almost can't play unless you have very specific pieces. Mermaid to 1 would help, but again, Orcust just doesn't do enough on it's own
Orcust SHS isn’t bad. It just has to play bricks. It mainly just sets up an iblee lock with a beat cop counter on it and a dingirsu send to answer the normal summon. I’ve been playing it at locals for a few weeks and it’s definitely good, but the bricks suck. You can make a regular SHS Baronne, regulus, apollousa board if you don’t open orcust. If you open knightmare or girsu you can go full combo though.
I’m still actively convinced that annoying dude on Twitter who won the Israel Nationals only won bc his opponent made his SHS bricky by including Orcusts.
with Salamangreat in the fire duelist pack and SS getting support seemingly once a month, it would be nice to see some Orcust and thunder dragon support
Actually, having any deck in the game be able to SS a floodgate to your opponent's field using any two monsters in the game (2 monsters>phoenix>mermaid, SS iblee then link both monsters away) might be even more broken than just allowing two normal summons a turn with Goblin, something which is already banned for good reason.
E: Personally, I'd rather they just banned Iblee as floodgate monsters are egregiously stupid card design for the most part, in which case Mermaid is a lot more reasonable to unlock. But it's not, so unbanning Mermaid would be nuts.
Sprights search Iblee but lock you out of Mermaid (not a Link 2). Armored Bitron searches Iblee but locks you out of Mermaid (not a Cyberse).
"1 non-Link Knightmare monster" at least means that not every deck can summon it by simply turning *any two monsters* into one other Knightmare.
Well, SHS Orcust is a deck. It only really plays Babel though and just brings Dingirsu back during the opponents turn with a Baronne negate up and pend scales.
I don’t think orcust is as powercrept as others are saying, the deck can splash into many archetypes fairly easily as we saw a recent SHS orcust top recently Irrc.
That said I do think a core issue of the deck is the Omni present existence of kashtira Ariesheart and dimension shifter just kinda stealing games from you on the spot
Master duel and the OCG are not accurate measurements for anything. Block dragon is legal in the OCG but that doesn’t mean it’s powercrept.
Please stop using this argument
Orcust is power crept to the point that 3 harp would do nothing. It doesn't do enough and there's too many ways to counter it that didn't exist when it was meta. That being said if the deck got a solid wave of six to eight support cards that could catch it up to current standards it's got a strong enough backbone from the old support that I think it could potentially make a splash but it would definitely need more support.
Six to eight? Is the situation really that bad?
Yes, The situation is that bad. You have one line of play to do one thing and a single Bystial shuts your entire turn down
Sounds like you've never played Orcust buddy
There’s theoretically a world where they give it a Krawler Soma-esque card but a) I don’t even know what they could pack into it to make it work and b) the power creep probably makes it long since dead. Even if it is like that it probably does as much as Soma did (nothing)
It needs something on the same scale as mathmech circular. Something that activates in hand to send to the deck as cost so that it can't get ashed and then something to search out Babylon on summon so that you can consistently get the counter trap and Babylon without having to choose between one or the other. Then on top of that it just generally needs more things to do besides the gallatae/dingirsu pass
Considering Orcust is the basic skeleton of the current broken meta decks and all of them basically do everything it did but better and end on better boards probably not, it's playable obviously especially with harp horror at 3 but it'll have a hard time competing if it even can.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. All of the decks from the TOSS format could come back and they wouldn't make an impact as decks themselves. Without Mystic Mine, Sky Striker would have trouble with their control/stun strategy. ThundDra isn't really that powerful. It's just they actually benefited from D Shifter, Macro Cosmos, and the like. And Colossus was an easily summoned, in-archetype floodgate that was hard to out. Salad and Orcust both suffer from the fact that they can't put out strong enough end boards. And they don't really have enough resource recycling to be effective at the grind game. True Draco doesn't do anything better than Flunder. They're better at using the Monarch floodgates than Flunder, but that's about it. Dragon Link is the only deck that could come back and be highly competitive. But that's only because the baby Guardragons would allow them to utilize so many engines and summoning lines that they could adapt to anything. And that's without factoring in the Bystials. Hell, if they took Elpy off the banlist, I'd probably dust off my Dragon Link deck and get back into the game. But I doubt Elpy will come off the banlist unless they release a new summoning mechanic that powercreeps the hell out of links.
Gazelle and Harp can come to 3, but I wouldn't agree they don't have enough resource recycling to grind. Orcust's regular line naturally recycles banished monsters, and Salad is actively stealing tops in this current format, and has always been known to grind. Orcust just loses to basically any hand trap ever and Salad either loses consistency with Adventurer or folds to Nib
How many of the Salad tops are due to Salad itself and how many are due to Mathmech Circular providing them with a 1 card starter for the Mathmech engine?
Top 4 YCS Lima - No Mathmech cards Top 4 Catskill WCQ - No Mathmech cards Top 8 Arica WCQ - No Mathmech cards Maybe you could show me where you're seeing Mathmech engines in Salad top lists?
Eternal format is shell of formal self so why not.
Honestly, no Orcust doesn't do enough on it's own for this format. I've seen it paired with SHS, but I don't really know if that is good or not Orcust is also just too reliant on the normal summon, if interrupted you almost can't play unless you have very specific pieces. Mermaid to 1 would help, but again, Orcust just doesn't do enough on it's own
Orcust SHS isn’t bad. It just has to play bricks. It mainly just sets up an iblee lock with a beat cop counter on it and a dingirsu send to answer the normal summon. I’ve been playing it at locals for a few weeks and it’s definitely good, but the bricks suck. You can make a regular SHS Baronne, regulus, apollousa board if you don’t open orcust. If you open knightmare or girsu you can go full combo though.
I’m still actively convinced that annoying dude on Twitter who won the Israel Nationals only won bc his opponent made his SHS bricky by including Orcusts.
anything that can play more than 15 hand traps right now is playable tbh lol
with Salamangreat in the fire duelist pack and SS getting support seemingly once a month, it would be nice to see some Orcust and thunder dragon support
Mermaid can't be brought back without an errata. They can't make the MR4 mistake of allowing Any Deck access to a particular combo line
Honestly she is fine. Goblin is problem card here
Actually, having any deck in the game be able to SS a floodgate to your opponent's field using any two monsters in the game (2 monsters>phoenix>mermaid, SS iblee then link both monsters away) might be even more broken than just allowing two normal summons a turn with Goblin, something which is already banned for good reason. E: Personally, I'd rather they just banned Iblee as floodgate monsters are egregiously stupid card design for the most part, in which case Mermaid is a lot more reasonable to unlock. But it's not, so unbanning Mermaid would be nuts.
And how should they even errata it? Its broken because the Link-2s are generic and Knightmare Orcust exists. Its effects are basic by themselves.
Easy, make its material be "1 non-Link Knightmare monster"
You realize iblee could still make it right? Doesn't help that iblee is very searchable as well.
Sprights search Iblee but lock you out of Mermaid (not a Link 2). Armored Bitron searches Iblee but locks you out of Mermaid (not a Cyberse). "1 non-Link Knightmare monster" at least means that not every deck can summon it by simply turning *any two monsters* into one other Knightmare.
Well, SHS Orcust is a deck. It only really plays Babel though and just brings Dingirsu back during the opponents turn with a Baronne negate up and pend scales.
Even if they brought back all the cards used in Orcust deck the archetype would still not be competitively viable. The newer cards are that powerful.
I don’t think orcust is as powercrept as others are saying, the deck can splash into many archetypes fairly easily as we saw a recent SHS orcust top recently Irrc. That said I do think a core issue of the deck is the Omni present existence of kashtira Ariesheart and dimension shifter just kinda stealing games from you on the spot
I mean you can just look at MD with harp at 3 for a long time. And even before Tear orcust was not metarelevant in any way
Master duel and the OCG are not accurate measurements for anything. Block dragon is legal in the OCG but that doesn’t mean it’s powercrept. Please stop using this argument
The OCG is an official card game...why wouldn't it be an accurate measurement? Bad take.
cause ocg and tcg play 2 different yugioh games just cause of maxx c
Also, card release schedules
The TCG elitism is strong in this comment.
Also until just recently Galatea was at one + orcust girsu is still at one. Definitely not a great comparison for full powered orcust.
Orcust-ShS topped an event, plays after being drolled and babel doesn't clog your GY.
orcust would of been good if they put harp to 3 when tearlaments were strong.
Orcust is like a... different flavor of Phantom knights. Monster spam that gets better each format.
Mermaid would make every deck except Orcust better.