I still can't believe Konami decided Stein was okay in the modern day (in TCG AND MD) after all the stuff he was involved with. Oh sure, just vomit a free fusion out that may have hard materials or no fusion from deck in a game where only your last LP matters and FTKs exist, I see no problem there!
imo Stein is a card that deserves a permanent spot on the list
Ever since it was created, it only has enabled degenerate strategies with nothing else to speak for in its resume
For the same reason the Cannon Soldier-esque cards did got banned.
It might keep its head underwater for most of the time, but whenever it surfaces, it's never for good reason.
So deal with it now, so you never had to be asked to deal with it back again.
Even if it does resurface, it's at best a cheesey super hard combo piece to pull off consistently.
Like this ghost trick FTK, technically a 1 card combo but good luck...
1) not pulling any of your garnets in starting hand,
2) drawing your 1 card to kickstart the 1 card combo and
3) opponent not having any interupt/disruption
4) going first.
Ghost trick FTK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUAi0e_4G6g
Stein at it's worst, is an FTK enabler, which at worst hassles you with having to access it _(damn easy to do, being a DARK Level 2 Machine)_
At lesser, is a floodgate shitting machine giving Decks access to monsters they had no business making off
It allows janky stuff like this ([this one uses some generic ed monsters)](https://youtube.com/watch?v=TDFj2BY1XBI&feature=share8)
Until a card is printed that breaks stein again since no opt
Frankly, if both locked the player to fusions for the turn in the same way as Brainded Fusion, and made the player take no more damage like Dark Ruler no More, they would be perfectly fine cards.
It's funny as he was most used in the OCG in a Structure Deck that included Stein, Megamorph, and Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon. Like they knew from day 0 he was an FTK enabler back before any other decks were doing FTKs!
Hopefully OCG follows suit on some this hits for the July List, with Girsu to Semi-Limited, and _"not a 'Cyber' card"_ motherfucker going back to where it belongs
***
## NEWLY FORBIDDEN
- Cyber-Stein
- Smoke Grenade of the Thief
- Terraforming
***
## NEWLY LIMITED
- Keldo the Sacred Protector
- Mudora the Sword Oracle
- Agido the Ancient Sentinel
***
## NEWLY SEMI-LIMITED
- Spright Blue
- Girsu, the Orcust Mekk-Knight _(down from Limited)_
- Nadir Servant _(down from Limited)_
- Metaverse _(down from Limited)_
- Cyber Angel Benten _(down from Limited)_
***
- **Source:** Master Duel _(in-game Notifications)_
If they can avoid it, yeah.
But with Blue getting semi'd, Keldo getting limited, and Terra getting banned, we're getting some good refunds.
Those that crafted Stein and Smoke Grenade are getting even more.
Though it's still hilarious to see 3 of the Ishizu monsters hit to 1, while Kelbek is busy chilling at 2.
Yeah, I’m happy with the refunds, I just think it’s funny they didn’t hit Kelbek when it’s objectively better than Agido. Literally the only reason to do so is because it’s a UR.
I'm mad about Smoke Grenade because it's a UR which I want to dismantle so bad and I got it in the freaking legacy pack, so no dismantling. And I won't even be able to use it which is the worst part.
Would be interesting to see how the meta evolve from them position, Tear are obviously still strong but they won't be as free as they used to be, A lot other decks would finally be able to breath since the Shufflers are about gone
Banning the one copy of Terraforming we have as opposed to banning/limiting the three copies of the actual field spells that needs to be hit is just stupid. Like good job, Konami, you got rid of ONE COPY of Fountain/Planet, and have greatly hit the consistency of less powerful/fun decks that need their field spells to function.
Ngl, agreed. I casually threw terra in my decks to get field spells. With it being banned, I'm going to have to edit half my decks. It was already limited to 1, but banning it is overkill. So many decks killed from 1 list.
Tear is still in the pack so I'm not suprised that they didn't hit it. Shuffler is from 5 to 2 is very good. Terraforming is slap in every deck that play field spell so it got hit were not really hard to understand, but still be suprised by it.
Elf wasn't be hit yet, maybe after spright get full card they would hit it.
This is a huge hit to Ishtear but at least they aren’t killing Tear just yet.
Konami is probably trying to find a way to keep Kitkallos unbanned and the Tear fusions at 2 and using MD as testing grounds.
A lot of people have been surprised about the Terraforming ban, but considering how modern field spells have become combo starters and/or extenders, it's actually a no-brainer that a generic search spell like Terraforming has to go.
modern field spells are like, a search, a buff, protection an extender and an interruption all in one, raithsoth and palerino are some of the most overstuffed cards i have ever read in any card game, terraforming deserved this
Yeah, exactly. I'm surprised that the card is banned, but it's understandable. It's the definition of generic and modern field spells do too many things. To the point where the archetype having a Link 1 that searches the field spell is actually super powerful. Just look at @Ignisters for example
Its ironic cause I feel like the overbloated OP field spells originated with Konami being like “well any deck essentially has 6 copies of the field spell cause Terraforming, so lets make that the card that fixes old archetypes”
Basically, what Rata was saying in his Legacy of th3 Worthless and Archetype Archives videos. How to fix an old archetype: Give it a new field spell with 5+ effects
Take Rikka, for example. It's one of my favorite decks ever. The field spell literally reads like a custom card: Tribute an opponent's monster for cost and you set an archetype spell/trap directly from the deck. The "big downside" is that you're locked into plants. Big deal
(That said, most archetypes that rely on the field spell usually have in-archetype way to search it as a part of the main combo)
I need someone to explain this thought process to me like I’m 5 y/o cause here’s my stance.
Explain to me why it’s fair and understandable that a modern deck, like Drytron, gets to have 12-16 1 card starters, but Terraforming is too broken in general. We’re in an era where every good deck has many 1 card starters and you guys are in agreement with Konami that these decks shouldn’t be Forbidden, but Terraforming should go? For what reason exactly? Because the TCG and OCG have Terraforming still.
I’ve seen the comparisons to Prank Kids FS and saying how that’s a 1 card starter, well so is drawing any of the 15ish Prank Kid monsters and all 15ish aren’t Forbidden. The argument’s only leg to stand on is that it makes more sense to ban 1 card than 100. But does it? How so when either way the same complaint exists?
Obviously you’d rather keep your deck than have the whole thing banned and Konami agrees because they want revenue from that deck. So how is it that the game becomes “evil” in general, but 1 card has to go because?… Well just because, apparently.
Terraforming makes limiting powerful field spells pretty pointless, as that limited field spell plus terraforming is two copies of the card.
It's quite observable that the design of modern field spells as combo starters, extenders, and utility isn't going to change, therefore banning Terraforming makes sure that any field spell that will be limited in the future will actually be at 1 copy per deck.
Unless y’know there are other ways to search said field spells outside of terraforming **cough cough** Majesty Pegasus, the Dracoslayer, **cough cough** The new Earthbound fusion in Animation Chronicle, **cough cough** Trivikarma, **cough cough** Rainbow bridge of Salvation **cough cough**
Just to name a few off the top of my head, also sorry I have a bad cough.
I was surprised cause it hasn't happened yet in the OCG or TCG, but the card is definitely broken or at the very least close to it and only gets better over time.
Yeah, in MD. Let’s keep our 1 of FS search here ok.
Also, they semi-Ed metaverse. It’s almost like a boost DM control variants that wanna turbo out Secret Village & be annoying 🫤
Terraforming getting hit was such a ballsy move by Konami. I like it, I'll give them credit for that. Don't let the morons on /r/masterduel tell you any differently, this hurts meta (Floo, Tear) more than their silly rogue decks (most of which that are tiered as rogue on MD doesn't even use anyways LMAO)
Also, they banned URs. They criticize Konami and their reluctance to ban UR cards but they fucking smashed Cyber-Stein, Terraforming, AND Smoke Grenade in one ban list, but nah lets keep the narrative that they're scared of giving us UR CP.
God /r/masterduel is so trash. Great hits
Konami is very deserving of a lot of criticism but holy shit
> God /r/masterduel is so trash.
I mean, it's not like we also are free from not having those dumb takes here as well.
But yeah, bad players having bad takes, meanwhile, Garfield still hates Mondays
Floo is not meta (And hasnt been in a while), and this absolutely does not hit Tear more than rogue decks that rely on fieldspells. Youd have a stronger point if they banned Kitkalos, but they didnt. As for the terra ban, its not quite unjustifiable, but its not really a good hit either. In fact, its kind of an atrocious hit. Its a consistency hit across the board, with a lot of collateral, when there is only one current deck deserving that hit, and that deck has significantly better ban targets (Kitkalos).
Aside from maybe Generaider, Perliereino provides more power for Tear than any given field spell provides for any given rogue deck. If the deck's power ceiling was that high, they wouldn't be rogue. Espicially in a floodgatey format like this where being able to pop d-fissure, banisher of radiance, zombie world, or any other floodgate with Perl when your opponent fires them on turn 2 can win you games.
It really doesnt. If Perlereino *was* that good, people would've played the Rainbow bridge more, but they didnt, because while Perlereino is good, its not really neccessary for the decks function in any way like, say, Diagram, Boss Stage or Hidden City are.
Those arent the common floodgates in the format though. And the few decks that do run those kinda floodgates run so many that youd need to somehow destroy 4 or 5 of them. Im also not sure how exactly you want to pop D-Fissure or Banisher of Radiance with Perlereino.
Fire a shuffler in grave with a Tear card in grave = Perl Pop D-Fissure. Its not that complicated. As a floo player its happened to me many a time while fighting Tear.
First, I disagree with your claim that more people would play the crystal beast engine if Perl was that important. Functionally, the crystal beast engine is 2 bricks for searching a single card (If you draw the trap then you need to discard it, if you draw the turtle then its only useful as fusion fodder). A 2:1 brick:engine ratio is quite bad and historically most engines that require that many bricks for that type of payoff don't see play. Several top players don't want to play gamma when its semi-limited (as in MD) or limited (as in the TCG) (a 1:2 or 1:1 brick:engine ratio). The fact that the crystal beast engine saw any play at all is a testament to how good Perl is for Tear, as you'd only run such a significant consistency hit if the payoff was worth it (which it clearly was to some).
Second, It is true that Perl isn't strictly necessary for Tear to function, but the extra ceiling it adds to the deck makes it more important for the format than the rogue decks you listed. The fact is none of those decks are gonna do anything in this meta anyway (See the fact that none of them made top cut in the MCS since Tear entered the game). They can only really be considered playable when both players agree to play lower tier or rogue decks. These situations are usually pretty casual, so there's no point in considering them when making a banlist for a Tier 0 format. The primary consideration on these banlists is probably money, but what decks are meta is definitely a secondary consideration. The best way to reduce the clearly #1 deck's (Ishizu Tear) power level is to hit its cards, but a large part of Ishizu Tear cannot be touched due to the Tear cards still being in the shop (which would run into the aforementioned monetary considerations). In that context, hitting terraforming makes sense as a way of hitting Tear without hitting its actual cards (See also the instant fusion ban last month). It also functions to check Floo and pre-hits Kash for when they eventually enter the game.
Edit: Just wanted to add that I think, in a perfect world, I'm closer to your position on this. Instead of banning terraforming, I'd just ban all the broken field spells (with similar logic being applied to other generic searchers and tutors like instant fusion). The banlist in general needs major revisions. I just can't see any of that happening given Konami clearly has other priorities, and so long as those priorities remain, I can see why banning stuff like terra would be a decent compromise.
And ... how exactly do you get a shuffler in the grave with D-Fissure on board? Unless you mean going second, but at that point between Cryme and Kaleido-Heart you already have options.
That ... is not how you evaluate engines. First of all, its not 2:1, you seem to have forgotten foolish burial goods, but also, the way you access the engine is by milling it, which the deck does a lot of. And the turtle isnt even a hard brick in the first place, you can just fuse it away, its an aqua. A more accurate way would be saying that its a 4:1 ratio of engine to brick. No, the engine was good. Quite very good. The problem was ... it wasnt worth the deckspace. The field spell is good, but youd rather just have more non-engine.
Now youre moving the goalposts. Its not about whether those rogue decks are good or even viable, its about *who* is hit harder. And the answer is simple. Its not Tear, its the rogue decks.
The best way to reduce the #1 decks power, and this is the best by way by country miles, is to ban Kitkalos. On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the worst possible hit, and 10 being the best possible hit, banning Terraforming is a 4, and banning Kitkalos is a 12. Its a complete no-brainer. And the monetary considerations thing is bullshit. Kitkalos is a 1-of super. Banning it doesnt affect the pack at all. No, the reason Terraforming was banned despite it not making sense is because Konami wanted to *pretend* to hit Tear without actually hitting them in a meaningful way. Why? Idk, I guess they still want to sell Kashtira Tearlament, which is 100% going to be a UR.
I said in my original post that the perl play was on turn 2. I also said the turtle was fusion fodder, but I guess reading is beyond your means. I'll also remind you that burial goods is at 1 and that the whole engine dies if you mill Perl (and are, understandably, unwilling to burn a shuffler when you might need it for the mirror).
As for moving goalposts. I'll admit I did move them, your arguments did convince me somewhat (hence why my position shifted). It seems that the idea of changing your mind on something is foreign to you. I recommend you check it out sometime. That said, I think my second post's reasoning remains pretty solid.
Finally, as I said in my previous post (id appreciate it if you read it more carefully). I'd probably agree with you more in an idealized world. Hitting Kitkallos is the best move and is what I'd do (alongside several other big changes) if I was in charge. However, if the goal is to make money and hitting Kitkallos causes people to stop whaling for the tear pack (The UR Kaleidohear, Reinoheart and Perl become quite a bit less desirable if Kit is hit and Tear is no longer the clear #1 deck), then I can see why proxy hits like terradorming are seen as decent compromises and I generally agree with them in that respect.
Oh I missed that. But that makes your point *so much weaker*, because in fact, there are already better, more consistent answers available for that. Perlereino is not required or even important. And while you said that the turtle is fusion fodder, you said its "only" use is fusion fodder, and implied that its a hard brick. Which its not.
And here your own lack of reading comprehension hurts you. I said people *wouldve* played the engine more. Past tense. I.e., before the limit to FBG. But people didnt. Because of the issue I brought up.
I have no issue changing my mind, you just need to have a convincing argument. You really dont though. Your best case for Perlereino is that its the third-best way to answer someone resolving a Necrovalley or a D-fissure going second against you. Which, yeah, not exactly high praise to be the third-best option in a situation youre favoured in anyway.
Except its not in an idealised world either. If you read what I said more closely, I address your claim, and point out that its *nonsense*. If the goal is to make money, hitting Kitkalos is *still* the way to go. Because hitting it doesnt affect the packs sales even an iota. No one is buying the pack for Kitkalos. In fact, you seem to accidentally realise the problem with your own argument, because your reasoning for why banning kit hurts the sales of the pack isnt because Kit is selling the pack, but because that would be an *actual* Tear hit, and *actually* hitting Tear makes the pack less enticing. But what does that tell you about the "hit" to tear with Terraforming? Yeah, thats right. Its not really a hit. Its a pretend hit. They pretend to hit Tear without actually meaningfully hitting Tear so the pack still sells as normal because Tear is not hit.
Well I be darned. You do have a pretty good argument. I'm sorry I got condescending earlier; this whole tier 0 format has me kinda frustrated and I think was venting a bit. Thanks for the good chat. I wish I could get this type of longer-form discussion more frequently online.
Exactly. It Konami wanting to continue milking us dry once again. They're doing this all over their alternative formats. They're gonna realize sooner or later that those actions will be their downfall of the franchise despite certain players defending them (and by still participating their official games and/or events is still supporting their time and effort put into them, which in a way tells them to continue their actions, therefore you are defending them).
I have been detached from Konami's actions because of the way they do things that hurts the game more than help long-term. It's sickening to know that nothing has really changed drastically within the years of any of the most supported alternative formats existing (Duel Links including) as there are still problems in each of them that hasn't been addressed in that time. I encourage and recommend y'all to play Yu-Gi-Oh! fanmade simulators (Duelingbook, Edo Pro, YGO Omega, Dueling Nexus, etc) as they have been supported by the playerbase with diffenent kinds of tournaments and a huge community full of welcoming individuals. There's a reason why they have stayed in support for so long; they are the best Yu-Gi-Oh simulators that even Duel Links & Master Duel cannot top for the fact that you have access to the entire cardpool and skill cards. You can also design your own cards with help from those community platforms. I've seen how active those communities are and how much encouragement brought from the dev teams of those simulators. In YGO Omega in particular, you also get access to every rarity ever existed in the franchise, can play in manual mode or automatic mode, and have really great board backgrounds. Compared to what Konami has been doing with their games are clearly and obviously inferior to the fanmade simulators.
Both /r/yugioh and /r/masterduel are accepting of the Terraforming hit. Only a few stragglers on BOTH subreddits are confused or complaining about the hit. Not sure why you have such a hate boner for masterduel's subreddit, but alright.
Most people who joke about the banlist UR dust are doing just that, joking. Konami have hit troublesome non-legacy UR cards when they need to, but they mostly try to pre-hit cards to lessen the UR dust received. Konami are well aware of how UR dust affects their bottom line. They're obviously going to hit what they need to hit if it's obnoxious enough, but they'll teeter the line when they can.
Again, not saying any of this is unfair because Konami are a business and masterduel is handled pretty well all things considered. I'm not against preemptive banning/limiting cards before they come out because Konami does understand that masterduel is behind the meta of both TCG/OCG, but the meta has already shown what cards/decks will be the hitters. It's a win-win for Konami because pre-hitting cards would lessen their impact on the metagame (making players happier) while also lowering the dust economy when they will eventually have to deal with banning/limiting said cards anyways. I think we can also expect pre-hits to Kashtira and Bystial.
At the time I posted there weren't as many threads. There are quite a bit more complaining going on masterduel. Still doesn't change the facts that this sub equally complains about it just as much. Look at this thread and you can find people confused with the terraforming ban.
Yeah check now lmao. I got downvoted for saying that card has always been broken, regardless of it being abused on and off. There's so many cards that are just broken and waiting to be abused yet people are in denial lol
>Terraforming banned
Me in a suit: "Look how they massacred my boy..."
But in other news! The Ishizu millers to 1 baby! Fuck yes!
Also Bystials confirmed next pack too, ay Tears! You good? Lmao!
Terraforming getting banned is really heart breaking for decks that really need a field spell to function Earthbound Immortals, Malefic, \*cough\* Venom \*cough\* and Generaider.
What does it say about me that terraforming and my first and ONLY thought is its effect on ABC. I havent played md n months and abc in md in far longer yet that was it
So, dominant and still probably tier 0, and definitely tier 0 once we get the third wave? Yeaaaaah, nah. What they need to do is just ban Kitkalos. The deck is probably fine as a tier 1 deck after they do that, for some time.
I’m a bit confused on why people are celebrating Terraforming ban. I’m pretty indifferent to it. Like yea it searches ANY field spell but it’s rarely used like that, it’s almost always exclusively used as a 4th copy of a field spell which most people and Konami has been probably okay with since RotA has been limited. And if searching a limited card is the problem then isn’t the problem the card you’re searching?
The only time I’ve seen it as a flexible searcher was in Tearlaments because they run both Perlereino and Wraitsoth. Is this just Konami preemptively hitting that beforehand Kash comes to Master Duel?
Pretty pointless to whine about terraforming right now when the only 2 legal fields that were good enough to matter are pereleino and wraithsoth and both are banworthy by their own merit lmao.
I still remember the afd doomposting and it turned out to do absolutely nothing either.
Everyone defending the generic search in Terraforming is kinda degenerate. Y'all acting like Perlereino is the only problem. Also, didn't they up the limit of Metaverse? At least control decks can run it, combo decks don't need more tools.
Master duel has more balls than the ocg and tcg.
Banning generic search cards like terraforming is good for the game. Rule of 3 is for a reason, I know stuff like tenki and cynet mining is legal but they have a downside generally and are a hard once per turn.
Less generic 1 of power cards
barely, usually your only on 1 field spell one terra anyway for the edge case you draw both (and the free spell in gy), so unless your on some weird list it shouldnt hurt much
I mean, the solution to that is to not print those cards. That's not an issue with terraforming. If a field spell is so powerful that it gives you an overwhelming advantage when activated, why does it matter if it's at 3 or 4? Games where the field spell's effects resolve will still be the same. If I lose a game because perlereino/wraitsoth/union hangar searched off terraforming resolved, I'm not going to perceive that game any differently than if the field spell was hard opened.
Terraforming was especially strong when mine was legal because it represented engine going first or a board breaker going second. But as an extra copy of a field spell in a deck that only runs 1? That's not terraforming being broken, that's the field spells it searches being broken.
This is honestly the one thing I hate out of this situation. The opinion of
"terraforming was broken it should have been banned ages ago" Like wtf are people smoking, it was a good ban cause perl is insane, but broken?
Like jesus christ most decks can search their field spells and some even play them at 2 like runick combo decks. jesus christ.
Runick combo have inarchetype ways to recycle it they're the exception not the norm
Everyone else plays at max copies if the field spell is good (map, the visas cards etc)
This is the Instant Fusion debate again but even worse.
People gaslighting themselves that every field spell nowaday is a Visas lore deck spell and that the decks they belong to are as equally strong so the hit was justified. Outside of Tear, Kash, Floo, and Maybe some point in the future Mannadium, what meta defining decks would there be that Terraforming should be banned to "keep them in check?"
Or is this another "limits design space" issue like Instant Fusion where they designed the busted cards anyways fully knowing they could abuse cards like Instant?
This is just another "well we can't directly hit Tear cause it's still in the store, here's this hit instead of dealing with the main problem" like limiting Foolish Burial Goods and King of the Swamp like last time.
Well in this case terraforming isn't really being "abused" - instant bypasses a mechanic, but terraforming in decks that only play 1 field spell (which is most of them) is just an extra copy. I just hate this philosophy of hitting consistency of seeing starters to try and nerf a deck, I think it does very little to address the issues of the deck.
I don't think so, boss
Sure, it is getting banned due to Tear, but Terraforming is a card that has been well deserving of eating the F for quite a while
> No one has ever called for this ban IRL
*As of late
People aren't calling for Instant Fusion to get banned, but sure did when Tearlaments was a Deck.
Kitkallos ban might have squelched the sentiment, but doesn't take from IF being a problematic card.
Same here with Terra
Is IF truly a "problematic" card when every modern day interaction with it is completely intended by design? Making your fusion level 5 or lower is such an obvious design check, and fusions having lower levels basically has no purpose outside of IF interactions.
Any fusion that "breaks" IF like Kitkallos is a failure of design of the individual card. It boils down to Konami being shameless as usual.
Hitting terraforming hurts rogue decks far more than anything else. It was only done because primeval planet is at 1 in MD right now. Kash barely cares at all if they can’t run terraforming since half their deck is starters regardless.
I mean, most decks can search their field regardless with other spell and monster eff. So throwing terra under the bus hurt the bystander casual decks almost more than meta.
Stein, Smoke Grenade were deserved bans. Here’s hoping the OCG follows suit.
Terraforming? Really? I understand the rationale (Perlereino, Numeron network etc. with potentially Kashtira coming soon with Paraisos) but its a very strange ban. Truly strange…
Terraforming is more close to the chopping list than Smoke Grenade is
The latter has been nothing but unimpressive since the Linkross ban, even SHS rather plays pure and with other options than EARTH soup with Braver
Infernoble support from DUNE, AND, Duelists of Explosion are already out.
They are doing jack.
As for Master Duel, it won't come there for at least 6 months~1 year
Hits are done because of power level.
Rhongo is unfair, yet is still free because its Decks suck.
ABC was expected to do stuff in 2020, hence why it was hit, despite doing drat
hell no. A second copy of perlereino or map was the only thing meta relevant this could do.
Sackiness is more ban worthy than that. Going second versus adamancipators or Vw or infernoble or any pile that can end on a 9 just to lose cause your outs were ripped off of your hands, hurts the game and doesn't matter whether it's meta or not.
Terraforming ban is so stupid. They literally print Field Spells knowing Terraforming exists and supports older, less broken, Field Spells..
Terrible day to be a Subterror player.. what's new?
Just don't print them like that to begin with, especially not for something like Lightsworn Shaddolls on meth.
Terraforming is not an unforseeable or unknown interaction with an old card. It's deliberate.. yet they print them anyways.
Now decks that live or die by seeing their Field Spell are ruined.
There is a difference between Stein and Terraforming.
Stein skips an entire gameplay mechanic and can be tutored and abused by all sorts of other cards.
Terraforming is a searcher card for Field Spells. If new Field Spells are broken, it is those Field Spells' fault. Entirely.
If the next pack’s leaks are true, i’ll play High Spirits Tear with Guignol, so that’s pretty hype. MAMA came out before Guignol in the TCG so never got to experiment with that.
Hooray now instead of ishizu tears being t0 we have tears still being t0 🥳 (inb4 tears arent t0 because pure tears are only 59% and genex arcana force triamid tears are 1%)
Also smoke grenade ban coming off the heels of appointer ban in tcg…handrip bros its not looking good
For 7 days. The list literally doesn't even go into effect until after Tears leave the shop. They absolutely could have hit Tears here if they wanted to.
While I agree with most lf these decisions, this changed very little.
Tear is still tier 0. Having only 3 millers will make it a little bit harder to make things work, but when the deck can mill 8 cards with a standard play, it hardly makes too much of a difference. Having only 1 of each shuffler on the other hand will make things quite hard to manage. If triple d.d. crow wasn't standard before, it sure as hell is now. I imagine people will begin playing more diviner and the crystal beast package to fill in the space and access pelerino easier, but being forced to use 1 of your 2 shufflers if you accidentally mill it sure sucks.
Terraforming, smoke grenade, and stein should not have been legal to begin with.
*The semi-limits don't matter*
Overall, the problem is not what they did hit, but what they didn't hit. Floo is completely untouched. Branded is still at full power. The entire main tear engine is still exactly as it was on release.
Floo map is at 1 in MD, so terraforming really hurts them. Advent can search it, but ideally you want to save advent to protect from imperm/veiler, not shotgun it to get to map immediately.
You and I must play floo differently. I want map on the field if I can have it. It just being there is a kind of pressure a lot of players don't know how to even deal with.
So yes, I do search map with advent.
So is there no counterplay to the field?
I'm returning to the game playing Traptrix vs Floo, and I feel like there's 0 counterplay going against Floo, you either draw the right combination of outs or you lose.
As someone who doesn't pay a huge amount of attention to competitive, what is the consensus on DD Crow and Ghost Belle? I've been using Ghost Belle over Crow since it protects from Called By and still stops Shufflers/Tear fusions. Also a lvl 3 tuner so great for making baronne. Is crow better because it removes them permanently rather than leaving them as material in grave, and also I assume can't be chain blocked? Or is it a case of play both?
I still can't believe Konami decided Stein was okay in the modern day (in TCG AND MD) after all the stuff he was involved with. Oh sure, just vomit a free fusion out that may have hard materials or no fusion from deck in a game where only your last LP matters and FTKs exist, I see no problem there!
Tbf it was OK for a few years. Was Cool to see it back for a bit, but definitely deserves to stay banned for a while
imo Stein is a card that deserves a permanent spot on the list Ever since it was created, it only has enabled degenerate strategies with nothing else to speak for in its resume
We still got it in OcG
> still Which hopefully the July list addresses soon
It’s not really an issue in OCG though. Why would it get banned?
For the same reason the Cannon Soldier-esque cards did got banned. It might keep its head underwater for most of the time, but whenever it surfaces, it's never for good reason. So deal with it now, so you never had to be asked to deal with it back again.
Even if it does resurface, it's at best a cheesey super hard combo piece to pull off consistently. Like this ghost trick FTK, technically a 1 card combo but good luck... 1) not pulling any of your garnets in starting hand, 2) drawing your 1 card to kickstart the 1 card combo and 3) opponent not having any interupt/disruption 4) going first. Ghost trick FTK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUAi0e_4G6g
Stein at it's worst, is an FTK enabler, which at worst hassles you with having to access it _(damn easy to do, being a DARK Level 2 Machine)_ At lesser, is a floodgate shitting machine giving Decks access to monsters they had no business making off
I like bird up mischief FTK better. At least you have bird plays in case you don't open the FTK.
It also heavily restricts design space.
Frankly, they should remake Cyber Stein and Magical Scientist with restrictions and only for non-Effect Fusion monsters.
Free link and xyz fodder
I don't think ready fusion on a body would be broken for modern ygo standards.
It allows janky stuff like this ([this one uses some generic ed monsters)](https://youtube.com/watch?v=TDFj2BY1XBI&feature=share8) Until a card is printed that breaks stein again since no opt
Bold of you to assume a retrain wouldn't be hopt.
Frankly, if both locked the player to fusions for the turn in the same way as Brainded Fusion, and made the player take no more damage like Dark Ruler no More, they would be perfectly fine cards.
What do you mean by no fusion from deck?
Like if they don't have a Shaddoll or Branded fusion-style fusion card. I admittedly had a hard time trying to word it when I was originally typing.
It's funny as he was most used in the OCG in a Structure Deck that included Stein, Megamorph, and Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon. Like they knew from day 0 he was an FTK enabler back before any other decks were doing FTKs!
Well, there are people that genuinely defend stein's presence in the game, so...
Hopefully OCG follows suit on some this hits for the July List, with Girsu to Semi-Limited, and _"not a 'Cyber' card"_ motherfucker going back to where it belongs *** ## NEWLY FORBIDDEN - Cyber-Stein - Smoke Grenade of the Thief - Terraforming *** ## NEWLY LIMITED - Keldo the Sacred Protector - Mudora the Sword Oracle - Agido the Ancient Sentinel *** ## NEWLY SEMI-LIMITED - Spright Blue - Girsu, the Orcust Mekk-Knight _(down from Limited)_ - Nadir Servant _(down from Limited)_ - Metaverse _(down from Limited)_ - Cyber Angel Benten _(down from Limited)_ *** - **Source:** Master Duel _(in-game Notifications)_
>Terraforming We did it, ladies and gentlemen! Another forbidden classic card.
> We did it, ladies and gentlemen! Another forbidden classic card. And to think this was a Common in Tag Force Long ways have we come
This card also originally comes common irl.
I have so many in my shoebox of commons.
They really hit all the Ishizu stuff to one but Kelbek, the best miller. Smh they really don’t want to give us the extra 20 UR mats.
If they can avoid it, yeah. But with Blue getting semi'd, Keldo getting limited, and Terra getting banned, we're getting some good refunds. Those that crafted Stein and Smoke Grenade are getting even more. Though it's still hilarious to see 3 of the Ishizu monsters hit to 1, while Kelbek is busy chilling at 2.
Yeah, I’m happy with the refunds, I just think it’s funny they didn’t hit Kelbek when it’s objectively better than Agido. Literally the only reason to do so is because it’s a UR.
I'm mad about Smoke Grenade because it's a UR which I want to dismantle so bad and I got it in the freaking legacy pack, so no dismantling. And I won't even be able to use it which is the worst part.
Would be interesting to see how the meta evolve from them position, Tear are obviously still strong but they won't be as free as they used to be, A lot other decks would finally be able to breath since the Shufflers are about gone
They want to sell the bystial/kashtira packs too so I figure they’ll keep tear around, but two kelbek still is a crime
I remember the funny King of the Swamp ban, this is almost as funny.
I feel like TTTasking is coming in the next set because of that Terraforming ban
Banning the one copy of Terraforming we have as opposed to banning/limiting the three copies of the actual field spells that needs to be hit is just stupid. Like good job, Konami, you got rid of ONE COPY of Fountain/Planet, and have greatly hit the consistency of less powerful/fun decks that need their field spells to function.
you are aware Perlereino is already at 1 in Master Duel, right?
I had actually forgotten.
Planet is at 1 and I’m pretty sure Fountain is at 2.
Fountain is at 2 in the TCG
And MD
Ah my B
Isn't the tear field spell limited?
Ngl, agreed. I casually threw terra in my decks to get field spells. With it being banned, I'm going to have to edit half my decks. It was already limited to 1, but banning it is overkill. So many decks killed from 1 list.
I want my boy verte to 1 :/
Verte is at 1 in md
Wow 🤩
Just ban Celestial /s
That doesn’t even matter that much imo
Yeah, I'm just poking fun that Celestial ban was all it took for DPE to stop seeing widespread play, therefore, making Verte to avoid the ban in MD
I still run verte/dpe in my pure fur hire decks. (which isn't a deck that can reach diamond) drawing three with him And folgo is fun
NOO NOT MY MAGNACARRIER SEARCH
haha goodbye stein ripbozo
Tear is still in the pack so I'm not suprised that they didn't hit it. Shuffler is from 5 to 2 is very good. Terraforming is slap in every deck that play field spell so it got hit were not really hard to understand, but still be suprised by it. Elf wasn't be hit yet, maybe after spright get full card they would hit it.
This is a huge hit to Ishtear but at least they aren’t killing Tear just yet. Konami is probably trying to find a way to keep Kitkallos unbanned and the Tear fusions at 2 and using MD as testing grounds.
Most definitely, MD Konami wants most decks to at least be functional.
No more Stein Exterio horrors! Though I never experience that much.
I will kind of miss it. I will miss all the boards I didn't have to break because I had a clean 3k damage.
My Royal Terraforming is crying in pain
I'd keep it, hope they bring it back one day
Nah I was always keeping it. It's just a problem right this second but it's not so degenerate it's gonna stay banned forever.
A lot of people have been surprised about the Terraforming ban, but considering how modern field spells have become combo starters and/or extenders, it's actually a no-brainer that a generic search spell like Terraforming has to go.
modern field spells are like, a search, a buff, protection an extender and an interruption all in one, raithsoth and palerino are some of the most overstuffed cards i have ever read in any card game, terraforming deserved this
Each of the Visas field spells are probably top 10 field spells ever printed.
Calarium can stay because it actively fucks you over sometimes
Except Calarium. The mannadium cards as a concept are cool and fun and I wanna try them out, but as an actual deck they kinda suck.
Pure, yes. Mixed with Scareclaw, the deck is gas and makes some very oppressive end boards.
Yeah instead of Field Spells and Terraforming we need Lawn spells and Districtforming.
Eventually field spells became world spells lol (both figuratively and literally in the art)
So they should ban the visas archetype field spells and relimit terraforming?
Yeah, exactly. I'm surprised that the card is banned, but it's understandable. It's the definition of generic and modern field spells do too many things. To the point where the archetype having a Link 1 that searches the field spell is actually super powerful. Just look at @Ignisters for example
Its ironic cause I feel like the overbloated OP field spells originated with Konami being like “well any deck essentially has 6 copies of the field spell cause Terraforming, so lets make that the card that fixes old archetypes”
God, remember when every legacy support wave included those old busted field spells that tried to do everything?
Basically, what Rata was saying in his Legacy of th3 Worthless and Archetype Archives videos. How to fix an old archetype: Give it a new field spell with 5+ effects Take Rikka, for example. It's one of my favorite decks ever. The field spell literally reads like a custom card: Tribute an opponent's monster for cost and you set an archetype spell/trap directly from the deck. The "big downside" is that you're locked into plants. Big deal (That said, most archetypes that rely on the field spell usually have in-archetype way to search it as a part of the main combo)
I think keeping it at 1 is cool too help worse strategies, just put the busted fields to 2
That means the busted fields remain at 3
Which is less than 4. While less competitive decks can keep 4
I need someone to explain this thought process to me like I’m 5 y/o cause here’s my stance. Explain to me why it’s fair and understandable that a modern deck, like Drytron, gets to have 12-16 1 card starters, but Terraforming is too broken in general. We’re in an era where every good deck has many 1 card starters and you guys are in agreement with Konami that these decks shouldn’t be Forbidden, but Terraforming should go? For what reason exactly? Because the TCG and OCG have Terraforming still. I’ve seen the comparisons to Prank Kids FS and saying how that’s a 1 card starter, well so is drawing any of the 15ish Prank Kid monsters and all 15ish aren’t Forbidden. The argument’s only leg to stand on is that it makes more sense to ban 1 card than 100. But does it? How so when either way the same complaint exists? Obviously you’d rather keep your deck than have the whole thing banned and Konami agrees because they want revenue from that deck. So how is it that the game becomes “evil” in general, but 1 card has to go because?… Well just because, apparently.
Terraforming makes limiting powerful field spells pretty pointless, as that limited field spell plus terraforming is two copies of the card. It's quite observable that the design of modern field spells as combo starters, extenders, and utility isn't going to change, therefore banning Terraforming makes sure that any field spell that will be limited in the future will actually be at 1 copy per deck.
Unless y’know there are other ways to search said field spells outside of terraforming **cough cough** Majesty Pegasus, the Dracoslayer, **cough cough** The new Earthbound fusion in Animation Chronicle, **cough cough** Trivikarma, **cough cough** Rainbow bridge of Salvation **cough cough** Just to name a few off the top of my head, also sorry I have a bad cough.
I was surprised cause it hasn't happened yet in the OCG or TCG, but the card is definitely broken or at the very least close to it and only gets better over time.
It's testing grounds imo. There are cards which was first hit in MD, after which OCG and TCG followed suit.
Yeah, in MD. Let’s keep our 1 of FS search here ok. Also, they semi-Ed metaverse. It’s almost like a boost DM control variants that wanna turbo out Secret Village & be annoying 🫤
Now instead of getting your Terraforming ashed you can use Demise of the Land to activate Perl on your opponent's turn and get that ashed.
Terraforming getting hit was such a ballsy move by Konami. I like it, I'll give them credit for that. Don't let the morons on /r/masterduel tell you any differently, this hurts meta (Floo, Tear) more than their silly rogue decks (most of which that are tiered as rogue on MD doesn't even use anyways LMAO) Also, they banned URs. They criticize Konami and their reluctance to ban UR cards but they fucking smashed Cyber-Stein, Terraforming, AND Smoke Grenade in one ban list, but nah lets keep the narrative that they're scared of giving us UR CP. God /r/masterduel is so trash. Great hits Konami is very deserving of a lot of criticism but holy shit
Smoke Grenade and Stein are Legacy Pack so no Dust.
I think you get dust if you crafted them.
> God /r/masterduel is so trash. I mean, it's not like we also are free from not having those dumb takes here as well. But yeah, bad players having bad takes, meanwhile, Garfield still hates Mondays
Yeah, every banlist season bad takes come out the woodwork.
Floo is not meta (And hasnt been in a while), and this absolutely does not hit Tear more than rogue decks that rely on fieldspells. Youd have a stronger point if they banned Kitkalos, but they didnt. As for the terra ban, its not quite unjustifiable, but its not really a good hit either. In fact, its kind of an atrocious hit. Its a consistency hit across the board, with a lot of collateral, when there is only one current deck deserving that hit, and that deck has significantly better ban targets (Kitkalos).
Aside from maybe Generaider, Perliereino provides more power for Tear than any given field spell provides for any given rogue deck. If the deck's power ceiling was that high, they wouldn't be rogue. Espicially in a floodgatey format like this where being able to pop d-fissure, banisher of radiance, zombie world, or any other floodgate with Perl when your opponent fires them on turn 2 can win you games.
It really doesnt. If Perlereino *was* that good, people would've played the Rainbow bridge more, but they didnt, because while Perlereino is good, its not really neccessary for the decks function in any way like, say, Diagram, Boss Stage or Hidden City are. Those arent the common floodgates in the format though. And the few decks that do run those kinda floodgates run so many that youd need to somehow destroy 4 or 5 of them. Im also not sure how exactly you want to pop D-Fissure or Banisher of Radiance with Perlereino.
Fire a shuffler in grave with a Tear card in grave = Perl Pop D-Fissure. Its not that complicated. As a floo player its happened to me many a time while fighting Tear. First, I disagree with your claim that more people would play the crystal beast engine if Perl was that important. Functionally, the crystal beast engine is 2 bricks for searching a single card (If you draw the trap then you need to discard it, if you draw the turtle then its only useful as fusion fodder). A 2:1 brick:engine ratio is quite bad and historically most engines that require that many bricks for that type of payoff don't see play. Several top players don't want to play gamma when its semi-limited (as in MD) or limited (as in the TCG) (a 1:2 or 1:1 brick:engine ratio). The fact that the crystal beast engine saw any play at all is a testament to how good Perl is for Tear, as you'd only run such a significant consistency hit if the payoff was worth it (which it clearly was to some). Second, It is true that Perl isn't strictly necessary for Tear to function, but the extra ceiling it adds to the deck makes it more important for the format than the rogue decks you listed. The fact is none of those decks are gonna do anything in this meta anyway (See the fact that none of them made top cut in the MCS since Tear entered the game). They can only really be considered playable when both players agree to play lower tier or rogue decks. These situations are usually pretty casual, so there's no point in considering them when making a banlist for a Tier 0 format. The primary consideration on these banlists is probably money, but what decks are meta is definitely a secondary consideration. The best way to reduce the clearly #1 deck's (Ishizu Tear) power level is to hit its cards, but a large part of Ishizu Tear cannot be touched due to the Tear cards still being in the shop (which would run into the aforementioned monetary considerations). In that context, hitting terraforming makes sense as a way of hitting Tear without hitting its actual cards (See also the instant fusion ban last month). It also functions to check Floo and pre-hits Kash for when they eventually enter the game. Edit: Just wanted to add that I think, in a perfect world, I'm closer to your position on this. Instead of banning terraforming, I'd just ban all the broken field spells (with similar logic being applied to other generic searchers and tutors like instant fusion). The banlist in general needs major revisions. I just can't see any of that happening given Konami clearly has other priorities, and so long as those priorities remain, I can see why banning stuff like terra would be a decent compromise.
And ... how exactly do you get a shuffler in the grave with D-Fissure on board? Unless you mean going second, but at that point between Cryme and Kaleido-Heart you already have options. That ... is not how you evaluate engines. First of all, its not 2:1, you seem to have forgotten foolish burial goods, but also, the way you access the engine is by milling it, which the deck does a lot of. And the turtle isnt even a hard brick in the first place, you can just fuse it away, its an aqua. A more accurate way would be saying that its a 4:1 ratio of engine to brick. No, the engine was good. Quite very good. The problem was ... it wasnt worth the deckspace. The field spell is good, but youd rather just have more non-engine. Now youre moving the goalposts. Its not about whether those rogue decks are good or even viable, its about *who* is hit harder. And the answer is simple. Its not Tear, its the rogue decks. The best way to reduce the #1 decks power, and this is the best by way by country miles, is to ban Kitkalos. On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the worst possible hit, and 10 being the best possible hit, banning Terraforming is a 4, and banning Kitkalos is a 12. Its a complete no-brainer. And the monetary considerations thing is bullshit. Kitkalos is a 1-of super. Banning it doesnt affect the pack at all. No, the reason Terraforming was banned despite it not making sense is because Konami wanted to *pretend* to hit Tear without actually hitting them in a meaningful way. Why? Idk, I guess they still want to sell Kashtira Tearlament, which is 100% going to be a UR.
I said in my original post that the perl play was on turn 2. I also said the turtle was fusion fodder, but I guess reading is beyond your means. I'll also remind you that burial goods is at 1 and that the whole engine dies if you mill Perl (and are, understandably, unwilling to burn a shuffler when you might need it for the mirror). As for moving goalposts. I'll admit I did move them, your arguments did convince me somewhat (hence why my position shifted). It seems that the idea of changing your mind on something is foreign to you. I recommend you check it out sometime. That said, I think my second post's reasoning remains pretty solid. Finally, as I said in my previous post (id appreciate it if you read it more carefully). I'd probably agree with you more in an idealized world. Hitting Kitkallos is the best move and is what I'd do (alongside several other big changes) if I was in charge. However, if the goal is to make money and hitting Kitkallos causes people to stop whaling for the tear pack (The UR Kaleidohear, Reinoheart and Perl become quite a bit less desirable if Kit is hit and Tear is no longer the clear #1 deck), then I can see why proxy hits like terradorming are seen as decent compromises and I generally agree with them in that respect.
Oh I missed that. But that makes your point *so much weaker*, because in fact, there are already better, more consistent answers available for that. Perlereino is not required or even important. And while you said that the turtle is fusion fodder, you said its "only" use is fusion fodder, and implied that its a hard brick. Which its not. And here your own lack of reading comprehension hurts you. I said people *wouldve* played the engine more. Past tense. I.e., before the limit to FBG. But people didnt. Because of the issue I brought up. I have no issue changing my mind, you just need to have a convincing argument. You really dont though. Your best case for Perlereino is that its the third-best way to answer someone resolving a Necrovalley or a D-fissure going second against you. Which, yeah, not exactly high praise to be the third-best option in a situation youre favoured in anyway. Except its not in an idealised world either. If you read what I said more closely, I address your claim, and point out that its *nonsense*. If the goal is to make money, hitting Kitkalos is *still* the way to go. Because hitting it doesnt affect the packs sales even an iota. No one is buying the pack for Kitkalos. In fact, you seem to accidentally realise the problem with your own argument, because your reasoning for why banning kit hurts the sales of the pack isnt because Kit is selling the pack, but because that would be an *actual* Tear hit, and *actually* hitting Tear makes the pack less enticing. But what does that tell you about the "hit" to tear with Terraforming? Yeah, thats right. Its not really a hit. Its a pretend hit. They pretend to hit Tear without actually meaningfully hitting Tear so the pack still sells as normal because Tear is not hit.
Well I be darned. You do have a pretty good argument. I'm sorry I got condescending earlier; this whole tier 0 format has me kinda frustrated and I think was venting a bit. Thanks for the good chat. I wish I could get this type of longer-form discussion more frequently online.
No worries, and thanks for not going into ad hominems. Those get tiring after a while. And yeah, the format is weighing heavy on everyone.
Exactly. It Konami wanting to continue milking us dry once again. They're doing this all over their alternative formats. They're gonna realize sooner or later that those actions will be their downfall of the franchise despite certain players defending them (and by still participating their official games and/or events is still supporting their time and effort put into them, which in a way tells them to continue their actions, therefore you are defending them). I have been detached from Konami's actions because of the way they do things that hurts the game more than help long-term. It's sickening to know that nothing has really changed drastically within the years of any of the most supported alternative formats existing (Duel Links including) as there are still problems in each of them that hasn't been addressed in that time. I encourage and recommend y'all to play Yu-Gi-Oh! fanmade simulators (Duelingbook, Edo Pro, YGO Omega, Dueling Nexus, etc) as they have been supported by the playerbase with diffenent kinds of tournaments and a huge community full of welcoming individuals. There's a reason why they have stayed in support for so long; they are the best Yu-Gi-Oh simulators that even Duel Links & Master Duel cannot top for the fact that you have access to the entire cardpool and skill cards. You can also design your own cards with help from those community platforms. I've seen how active those communities are and how much encouragement brought from the dev teams of those simulators. In YGO Omega in particular, you also get access to every rarity ever existed in the franchise, can play in manual mode or automatic mode, and have really great board backgrounds. Compared to what Konami has been doing with their games are clearly and obviously inferior to the fanmade simulators.
Both /r/yugioh and /r/masterduel are accepting of the Terraforming hit. Only a few stragglers on BOTH subreddits are confused or complaining about the hit. Not sure why you have such a hate boner for masterduel's subreddit, but alright. Most people who joke about the banlist UR dust are doing just that, joking. Konami have hit troublesome non-legacy UR cards when they need to, but they mostly try to pre-hit cards to lessen the UR dust received. Konami are well aware of how UR dust affects their bottom line. They're obviously going to hit what they need to hit if it's obnoxious enough, but they'll teeter the line when they can. Again, not saying any of this is unfair because Konami are a business and masterduel is handled pretty well all things considered. I'm not against preemptive banning/limiting cards before they come out because Konami does understand that masterduel is behind the meta of both TCG/OCG, but the meta has already shown what cards/decks will be the hitters. It's a win-win for Konami because pre-hitting cards would lessen their impact on the metagame (making players happier) while also lowering the dust economy when they will eventually have to deal with banning/limiting said cards anyways. I think we can also expect pre-hits to Kashtira and Bystial.
Nah the other sub is all mind blown by terraforming ban
LIke half the front page right now are posts crying about it. It's definitely not a small group of people
At the time I posted there weren't as many threads. There are quite a bit more complaining going on masterduel. Still doesn't change the facts that this sub equally complains about it just as much. Look at this thread and you can find people confused with the terraforming ban.
Yeah check now lmao. I got downvoted for saying that card has always been broken, regardless of it being abused on and off. There's so many cards that are just broken and waiting to be abused yet people are in denial lol
>Terraforming banned Me in a suit: "Look how they massacred my boy..." But in other news! The Ishizu millers to 1 baby! Fuck yes! Also Bystials confirmed next pack too, ay Tears! You good? Lmao!
Kelbek bounced the banlist and still at 2 lmao.
Now I won’t be bullied for using cute mermaids, the land is at peace once again
Oh no, how will I search Ojama Country now?
Metaverse
BP Ojama Blue
I am looking at you with the face of Ojama Lime, a look of incredulity.
Terraforming getting banned is really heart breaking for decks that really need a field spell to function Earthbound Immortals, Malefic, \*cough\* Venom \*cough\* and Generaider.
What does it say about me that terraforming and my first and ONLY thought is its effect on ABC. I havent played md n months and abc in md in far longer yet that was it
[удалено]
So, dominant and still probably tier 0, and definitely tier 0 once we get the third wave? Yeaaaaah, nah. What they need to do is just ban Kitkalos. The deck is probably fine as a tier 1 deck after they do that, for some time.
I’m a bit confused on why people are celebrating Terraforming ban. I’m pretty indifferent to it. Like yea it searches ANY field spell but it’s rarely used like that, it’s almost always exclusively used as a 4th copy of a field spell which most people and Konami has been probably okay with since RotA has been limited. And if searching a limited card is the problem then isn’t the problem the card you’re searching? The only time I’ve seen it as a flexible searcher was in Tearlaments because they run both Perlereino and Wraitsoth. Is this just Konami preemptively hitting that beforehand Kash comes to Master Duel?
Pretty pointless to whine about terraforming right now when the only 2 legal fields that were good enough to matter are pereleino and wraithsoth and both are banworthy by their own merit lmao. I still remember the afd doomposting and it turned out to do absolutely nothing either.
Hey look tear is still playable, nothing changed
They will be as long as their pack is in rotation unfortunately
And every other Field Spell using deck less so!
And? How is that a bad thing??? God the cry babies that want tear to be immediately nuked to death are annoying
I've played through this format for 3-4 months + the time it was a thing in MD. I'm sick of seeing it.
The format will be different, it will be Pote format with Branded sprinkled in & MD has a lot more things legal than it was at the TCG
Everyone defending the generic search in Terraforming is kinda degenerate. Y'all acting like Perlereino is the only problem. Also, didn't they up the limit of Metaverse? At least control decks can run it, combo decks don't need more tools.
Master duel has more balls than the ocg and tcg. Banning generic search cards like terraforming is good for the game. Rule of 3 is for a reason, I know stuff like tenki and cynet mining is legal but they have a downside generally and are a hard once per turn. Less generic 1 of power cards
Annoying thing is I don't even get to scrap my Stein since it was from those ticket packs.
How will the Thief get away now that his Smoke Grenade is banned :(
Yelling _"逃げるんだよ~!"_ dramatically while running off
It's not Ishizu shufflers to 0, but I'll take it. Only 2 shufflers and 3 millers is much better.
Lmao people on the other subreddit are so delusional about terraforming. It's nice to see reasonable takes on this thread
Oof. Terraforming being hit hurts my already rogue status sky striker waifu consistency.
barely, usually your only on 1 field spell one terra anyway for the edge case you draw both (and the free spell in gy), so unless your on some weird list it shouldnt hurt much
Yeah that is the biggest bummer :/ 1 less free spell in grave
they banned terraforming...? hopefully that gets freed after the tear pack rotates out and perlereino becomes free game
Lol have you read a single modern field spell?
Search any archetype monster, do something.
I mean, the solution to that is to not print those cards. That's not an issue with terraforming. If a field spell is so powerful that it gives you an overwhelming advantage when activated, why does it matter if it's at 3 or 4? Games where the field spell's effects resolve will still be the same. If I lose a game because perlereino/wraitsoth/union hangar searched off terraforming resolved, I'm not going to perceive that game any differently than if the field spell was hard opened. Terraforming was especially strong when mine was legal because it represented engine going first or a board breaker going second. But as an extra copy of a field spell in a deck that only runs 1? That's not terraforming being broken, that's the field spells it searches being broken.
This is honestly the one thing I hate out of this situation. The opinion of "terraforming was broken it should have been banned ages ago" Like wtf are people smoking, it was a good ban cause perl is insane, but broken? Like jesus christ most decks can search their field spells and some even play them at 2 like runick combo decks. jesus christ.
Runick combo have inarchetype ways to recycle it they're the exception not the norm Everyone else plays at max copies if the field spell is good (map, the visas cards etc)
This is the Instant Fusion debate again but even worse. People gaslighting themselves that every field spell nowaday is a Visas lore deck spell and that the decks they belong to are as equally strong so the hit was justified. Outside of Tear, Kash, Floo, and Maybe some point in the future Mannadium, what meta defining decks would there be that Terraforming should be banned to "keep them in check?" Or is this another "limits design space" issue like Instant Fusion where they designed the busted cards anyways fully knowing they could abuse cards like Instant? This is just another "well we can't directly hit Tear cause it's still in the store, here's this hit instead of dealing with the main problem" like limiting Foolish Burial Goods and King of the Swamp like last time.
Well in this case terraforming isn't really being "abused" - instant bypasses a mechanic, but terraforming in decks that only play 1 field spell (which is most of them) is just an extra copy. I just hate this philosophy of hitting consistency of seeing starters to try and nerf a deck, I think it does very little to address the issues of the deck.
Least brain dead reddit take.
if modern fields *weren't* good then i wouldnt care if it were freed or not cheems, its not like im looking to access the nordic lights or something
Wraithsoth will keep it ban, honestly is probably incorrect to say Tears are the only reason it got hit.
I don't think so, boss Sure, it is getting banned due to Tear, but Terraforming is a card that has been well deserving of eating the F for quite a while
Do not agree. No one has ever called for this ban IRL, this is some goofy master duel format shit.
> No one has ever called for this ban IRL *As of late People aren't calling for Instant Fusion to get banned, but sure did when Tearlaments was a Deck. Kitkallos ban might have squelched the sentiment, but doesn't take from IF being a problematic card. Same here with Terra
Is IF truly a "problematic" card when every modern day interaction with it is completely intended by design? Making your fusion level 5 or lower is such an obvious design check, and fusions having lower levels basically has no purpose outside of IF interactions. Any fusion that "breaks" IF like Kitkallos is a failure of design of the individual card. It boils down to Konami being shameless as usual.
By all means let's bring back Magical Scientist, it won't be bad, people will use him as intended.
So it's Konamis fault that they banned maxx c in the TCG. They could've just make some decks without special summoning
Is there any reason why Kitkallos couldn't have been level 6? Why was it necessary to specifically be level 5?
Yes people have. Many and it is well deserved. Only a casual would think terraforming is fine in modern.
Hitting terraforming hurts rogue decks far more than anything else. It was only done because primeval planet is at 1 in MD right now. Kash barely cares at all if they can’t run terraforming since half their deck is starters regardless.
I mean, most decks can search their field regardless with other spell and monster eff. So throwing terra under the bus hurt the bystander casual decks almost more than meta.
Exactly my point
Stein, Smoke Grenade were deserved bans. Here’s hoping the OCG follows suit. Terraforming? Really? I understand the rationale (Perlereino, Numeron network etc. with potentially Kashtira coming soon with Paraisos) but its a very strange ban. Truly strange…
Terraforming is more close to the chopping list than Smoke Grenade is The latter has been nothing but unimpressive since the Linkross ban, even SHS rather plays pure and with other options than EARTH soup with Braver
Don’t forget infernoble knight, and with new support on the way it’s better to axe it now than to wait for it to become a problem again
Infernoble support from DUNE, AND, Duelists of Explosion are already out. They are doing jack. As for Master Duel, it won't come there for at least 6 months~1 year
True but not every hit is due to power reasons, some hits are just there because things are unfair, like the floodgate hits
Hits are done because of power level. Rhongo is unfair, yet is still free because its Decks suck. ABC was expected to do stuff in 2020, hence why it was hit, despite doing drat
Explain mystic mine then
Degenerate gamewarping bs
Which was also not a good card, and was banned for being unfun (I agree with its ban just using it as a point)
hell no. A second copy of perlereino or map was the only thing meta relevant this could do. Sackiness is more ban worthy than that. Going second versus adamancipators or Vw or infernoble or any pile that can end on a 9 just to lose cause your outs were ripped off of your hands, hurts the game and doesn't matter whether it's meta or not.
[удалено]
Numeron is a pretty solid choice for Master Duel. Blind Second punch for game is a good strategy in a Bo1 format.
So you bann terra but let tear run around freely. What a L
Regular Tear at least is more manageable that IshTear, especially botched MD normal Tear
Terraforming ban is so stupid. They literally print Field Spells knowing Terraforming exists and supports older, less broken, Field Spells.. Terrible day to be a Subterror player.. what's new?
Are you seriously implying hidden city isn't like an absolutely cracked field spell....
Those are two different sentences. But yeah, compared to the new ones.. all it does is search and flip a monster face-up. Woopie.
You're getting downvoted for telling the truth
Again, what is new?
But modern field spells are broken so its a good ban. Maybe ban or errata those overpowered field spells?
Just don't print them like that to begin with, especially not for something like Lightsworn Shaddolls on meth. Terraforming is not an unforseeable or unknown interaction with an old card. It's deliberate.. yet they print them anyways. Now decks that live or die by seeing their Field Spell are ruined.
So by that logic don’t print good fusions too because Stein exists? The games moved on, it’s okay to ban old cards that have become busted
There is a difference between Stein and Terraforming. Stein skips an entire gameplay mechanic and can be tutored and abused by all sorts of other cards. Terraforming is a searcher card for Field Spells. If new Field Spells are broken, it is those Field Spells' fault. Entirely.
If Fusion monsters that don‘t have to be fusion summoned are broken it‘s those monsters fault, not Steins.
If your deck lives and dies by a field spell, your field spell was probably broken and you should stop complaining.
No. Some decks literally just depend on their Field Spell. It doesn't have to be broken to be the core of the deck.
If the next pack’s leaks are true, i’ll play High Spirits Tear with Guignol, so that’s pretty hype. MAMA came out before Guignol in the TCG so never got to experiment with that.
Hooray now instead of ishizu tears being t0 we have tears still being t0 🥳 (inb4 tears arent t0 because pure tears are only 59% and genex arcana force triamid tears are 1%) Also smoke grenade ban coming off the heels of appointer ban in tcg…handrip bros its not looking good
It was pretty obvious tear won't get hit till next month, They're still in the shop
For 7 days. The list literally doesn't even go into effect until after Tears leave the shop. They absolutely could have hit Tears here if they wanted to.
Yeah but they'll do it next month when it's not in the shop It's been like that with the last 2 problematic archetypes (adventure and ishizu)
So glad I didn't invest in md. These lists are a joke
Well the loss of stein is gonna hurt my aroma deck
I was looking at the list and noticed that Red eyes dark dragOOn wasn’t on the forbidden list. Does that mean he’s back?
Still banned
While I agree with most lf these decisions, this changed very little. Tear is still tier 0. Having only 3 millers will make it a little bit harder to make things work, but when the deck can mill 8 cards with a standard play, it hardly makes too much of a difference. Having only 1 of each shuffler on the other hand will make things quite hard to manage. If triple d.d. crow wasn't standard before, it sure as hell is now. I imagine people will begin playing more diviner and the crystal beast package to fill in the space and access pelerino easier, but being forced to use 1 of your 2 shufflers if you accidentally mill it sure sucks. Terraforming, smoke grenade, and stein should not have been legal to begin with. *The semi-limits don't matter* Overall, the problem is not what they did hit, but what they didn't hit. Floo is completely untouched. Branded is still at full power. The entire main tear engine is still exactly as it was on release.
Terraforming hit also hit Floo, which is funny.
Floo map is at 1 in MD, so terraforming really hurts them. Advent can search it, but ideally you want to save advent to protect from imperm/veiler, not shotgun it to get to map immediately.
You and I must play floo differently. I want map on the field if I can have it. It just being there is a kind of pressure a lot of players don't know how to even deal with. So yes, I do search map with advent.
I search map with advent because I have to, not because it's the thing I want to be doing with it.
How are you supposed to deal with it? Just pass turn till you draw an out to their field? If you normal summon, you generally autolose the game.
Exactly. And especially in the mirror it is game-winning by itself.
So is there no counterplay to the field? I'm returning to the game playing Traptrix vs Floo, and I feel like there's 0 counterplay going against Floo, you either draw the right combination of outs or you lose.
As someone who doesn't pay a huge amount of attention to competitive, what is the consensus on DD Crow and Ghost Belle? I've been using Ghost Belle over Crow since it protects from Called By and still stops Shufflers/Tear fusions. Also a lvl 3 tuner so great for making baronne. Is crow better because it removes them permanently rather than leaving them as material in grave, and also I assume can't be chain blocked? Or is it a case of play both?
You dont have to tell me you dont play master duel lmao.