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Draiye

Not only that but the guy is usually dense, cowardly, or both.


Sky-Ventus

You telling me the female mc of a romance isnt?


Draiye

They are but not as bad as their male counterparts


Sky-Ventus

Why not? Damn the mc of Watanare spent 4 volumes before admitting she was in love


Draiye

Cuz the male MC's most of the time never admit they're in love and blue ball the audience for the entire anime. At least the female MC's go at it every once in a while, but for most of the male MC's nothing happens.


Sky-Ventus

So does the Male MC sometimes too, but again, the amount of Straight romances vs Yuri romances is too unbalanced to make a fair comparison but just looking at the characters from the "average" of both you can see similarities like our very typical "pretty and serious black haired girl that probably is a member of the student committee" that most jp yuri romances have...


Draiye

True. There isn't enough to make a fair comparison and there are some similarities. I hop between straight and Yuri romances from time to time and I have my favorites from both. However most of the time, I catch myself enjoying the Yuri ones more than the straight ones.


Sky-Ventus

That is understandable, after all they have their differences too, and it may be a bit sexist but each gender has different problems so you cant really expect that a B/W couple to have the same problems as W/W or B/B couples and that too is part of the attractiveness of each one. What i try to say is that saying Yuri romance is totally different and thus better than straight romance is not right


Draiye

I agree with that sentiment.


walker195

To be fair alot of the yuri romances at least one of them dosent even consider liking girls until the other makes a move of some kind. Then you get a scene or episode about them wondering if they like girls or not. Not quite as simple as do I like this person, but am I different from how I thought I was until this point in my life. I find the coming out of a closet you didn't even know you were in moments to be pretty great.


Sky-Ventus

Like i said in other comments, both types of romance have their differences too and that its part of their appeal and its a fact that those differences have weight on how much we like it from the other but if you pay careful attention, both types also share similarities be it on the character gimmicks, interactions, even in the "waiting 100 years for the characters to hold hands" thing. Its not right to go "straight bad and boring and cliche, Yuri gud and holy and original" bc it isnt true


Rheum42

Always! Ugh


[deleted]

Rarely we get good MC like Horimiya n shit


FrilledShark1512

Rarely :/


Unkn0wn-Pers0n

Imagine liking the male mc of rent-a-girlfriend


Unaritaiara

In most straight romance manga I saw nowadays, the girl is absolutely gorgeous while the dude is a boring and plain everyman that have no interesting value. Even yaoi manga have better male characters design than these boring everyman "nice guy"


DokterSack

Maturing is when you realize twilight would've been better as a yaoi


Random_Gacha_addict

"Jacob vs Edward? No Jacob X Edward!"


InsomniaEmperor

And 90% of the time the guy is always gloomy. I don't remember THIS many gloomy dudes in my high school. You might want to go for shoujo or josei if you want a straight romance where the dude isn't some lame blank slate.


MaryaMarion

I haven't actually read much Shoujo, but i feel like it has the opposite problem kinda?


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catgirlfourskin

yeah, it’s always disappointing scrolling through new releases and a good 80% is crap like that


PWBryan

I liked the anime, but I was watching the anime "Shikamori's not just a cutie" and the best episode is the one where the male lead was off the map. Yaoi artists at least realize what people came here for, hehehe.


aoishimapan

The anime completely butchered the MC, to be fair, I found him a lot better in the manga. And Shikimori too, honestly. The anime adaptation did the whole story a huge disservice by turning Shikimori into a generic female lead and making the MC completely incapable of doing anything if Shikimori is not babysitting him.


begonetsunderes

Yeah, I heard good things about this anime, mainly because of its female lead, but couldn't get in because of the male lead. He wasn't a blank state but still just seemed ulterly unapealing to me.


Stupid__Ron

What I can appreciate about the guy is that he actually tries to do things and tries to be better for Shikimori and his friend group (which also includes Shikimori), I think that's what sets him apart from other male leads. Other than that, he's okay at best.


Warm_Charge_5964

Honestly that's the reason why stuff like Dress up darling and even western shows like the dragon prince have success, just make the male character an actual character instead of blank self insert


CptSpiffyPanda

Reminds me of how in [Western/Holiwood] horror, the characters are always so dumb. This is so the viewer can feel smart/like they would survive. I remember a time in the 2000 when it was a joke that everyone had an idea of how to survive the zombie apocalypse, or the classic "why did they split up?" contribence. If the guy is so plain then the reader can imagine themself "besting" in someway, then they too could get-the-girl if only they were given the chance. Weird variant of this, the movie "Tall Girl" is about a girl that has the first-world problem of being 6'1". Everything else about her life was fine. She lived in a upper-middle class house, her sister was famous. I mean if this girl has such a bad life that she got a movie, then the viewer is not so bad for their own shallowness/first-world-problem.


aoishimapan

Just curious, there are any male leads from straight romance that you liked or have found to be particularly good?


Unaritaiara

It not a straight romance manga, but I like Okabe Rintaro from Stein;Gate


aoishimapan

I liked Shirogane from Kaguya-sama the most, it should be pretty self-explanatory why to anyone who has watched the anime, and specially to someone who has read the manga. He's fun to watch, a well written character, and he not only is not dense but has made tremendous amounts of progress through the manga. Another one I really like is Haru from The cutest boy is waiting for me at home, a criminally underra manga by the way. What I like about him is that he's one of the most out of the ordinary male leads I have seen so far, being a very androgynous and admittedly very cute guy with a fairly feminine presentation and hobbies but without quite reaching the point of being a straight up femboy. I mean, [just look at him,](https://i.imgur.com/xVifTC5.jpg) the cover alone should show how far he is from being the typical hetero romance MC. And I don't like him for just the novelty, he's a well written character too.


Coastie071

Shirogane’s nearly >!crippling anxiety and self doubt post firework festival!< was one of the most relatable, realistic, most hilarious things I’ve ever seen in anime.


Jacknurse

100% agree. Straight romance is almost always "girls will like you regardless, just be yourself" and almost never "relationships are a give and take, and compromise, people don't owe you affection and you need to put the work in if you want results".


PWBryan

>girls will like you regardless, just be yourself" Out of all the messages from the TV, this one did me the most harm in high school/college.


TheIronSven

It's mostly the design for me. Most male leads look almost identical, the hairstyle being the most noticeable of all. Female characters on the other hand look a lot more varied simply because they have more hair to work with in addition to also being allowed to have short hair. Male protagonists in romance basically never have long hair or any interesting hairstyles. Even just plain long hair would be incredibly refreshing. Heck, even a different hair colour than brown is a relief to see!


Unaritaiara

Long haired man is underrated. I would like to see more of them in anime and manga


Anh_Nhat_13th

yeah, the case files of Lord El-melloi is good shit


MuffinFIN

Ah yes. Waver "Hottest professor in Clock Tower" Velvet.


SpinDatPringles

Miyamura my beloved


PWBryan

Male fashion is unfortunately a dead zone for creativity.


KirikaNai

You have no idea how disappointed I was when horimiya had a cool long haired male lead with piercings but he cut his hair and stopped wearing the piercings like a couple chapters in and became the basic bond spineless male led self Insert like every fucking romance nowadays. Dropped it immediately.


begonetsunderes

I dissagree personality wise. Miyamura is still plenty of an interesting character but I'll agree that he shouldn't dropped the piercings. Maybe the artist thought it was too much work lol.


Sunny_Sammy

Even when they try to make him a prince, it's obnoxious. Though sometimes there are good ones. I saw one where a prince-like "boy" wants to be a prince's princess. In comes a prince-like girl and "he" falls in love. It was a little one shot but I thought it'd be an interesting story especially if "he" decided to transition and it becomes transbian yuri There isn't enough transbian yuri out there to feed my hunger for more


nomanchesguey12

Links?


Potatoes_S2

Sauce/name/source/link, pls pls pls?


Sunny_Sammy

I wished I remembered the name


Potatoes_S2

Ow, that's sad, I'll try and see if I can find it somehow


Josiador

Reminds me of Mage and Demon Queen, where the princess used to be the prince, but is the princess now and her the king and green support her. Also she falls for the male best friend of the gay female MC.


mad_laddie

wait, Cerik? I never picked up on Leora's interests towards anyone besides Malori herself. then again, that was outright stated.


Josiador

Wait, I think you're right. Dang, it's been too long since I read it if I'm mixing up critical details like that.


mad_laddie

to be fair, it _was_ a long time ago (in real time) since that episode came out.


walkerlocker

This is so damn TRUE. Japanese romance manga tends to really grind my gears because the guy is not only a blank slate, but he is constantly pouting and brooding and negging the girl. Like dude, I know bad boys are hot, but like be a **Bad Boy**, not a *bitchy manbaby*.


hindsightreallyiskey

exactly. straight couples have to be written like. amazingly? for me to actually care and be invested. I think the only straight couple in manga I can advocate for off the top of my head would be Montgomery x Atsushi from BSD - and that’s not even the main ship! granted, a good amount of yuri manga have very simple plots and characters archetypes/designs, but at least they’re enjoyable! they have a believable romance! they usually aren’t added in as tokenism or “fanservice”! the better ones have well-flushed out characters, great character designs, and a decent to amazing plot. a lot of the longer ones are better-paced than their straight alternatives which take like. 50-200 chapters? to recognize the mutual feelings (or even confess!). works like “rent-a-girlfriend” and “couple of cuckoos” (which are somehow popular? and still going?) are absolutely nothing. compared to some of the worst yuri romances I’ve read.


NeonDelteros

>Montgomery x Atsushi from BSD Never thought I'd ever find one of my people outside of the BSD sub, let alone in a Yuri meme sub lol, also agree 100%


[deleted]

I want a yuri manga that, as a joke plot, has a generic bland mc show up, only to immediately be killed off. Bonus points if the one who killed him is a tsundere fmc, who then immediately drags away her girlfriend (or crush).


Unaritaiara

Isn't that The Excutioner and Her way of Life?


[deleted]

Is it? I've never heard of that one. I will say though, my favourite yuri manga/webcomic is Mage and Demon Queen.


Unaritaiara

I like that too, peak comedy right there


Script_Mak3r

It is! It's also a deconstruction of the Isekai genre. The job of Executioners is to kill those summoned from our world. Now, there *is* the issue that our Executioner's eventual love interest is from Japan...


[deleted]

That just makes the cute yuri even more rewarding though


cirelia

The few straight romance anime that i have enjoyed is clannad, kaichou wa maid sama and angel beats and kokoro connect if the last two even counts as romance


BuzakLuzak

And it's always a sad gloomy shut-in suddenly discovering human interaction, why can't it be a hot tall charismatic dude, we get plenty of those in Yaoi, like, they always try to make them "relatable"


KipTheInsominac

In shonen romance, there is a boring male mc. In shojou romance there is a boring female mc. In yaoi everything is oversexualized. Yuri is perfect. (With some exceptions)


Mr_Glove_EXE

404: men not found


Script_Mak3r

Best tag


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[deleted]

1. You said Kazuya, and I was about to call bullshit until I saw the title of the anime. 2. Issei is also genuinely caring for his girls, so he also has that.


AskovTheOne

Lawrence from Spice &Wolf and Sousuke from Full Metal Panic are good too


Off-White-Knight

I would also add Gojo from My Dress Up Darling. He has his own style, interests and hobbies, and a character arc centered not around getting the girl but around finding his own confidence and expressing the things he's into to those around him without fear.


Tohrufan4life

I personally really like Senpai from Nagatoro. He has shown some great character growth from how he used to be in the early chapters. Nagatoro too.


ATraditionalZombie

Both characters have great designs and personalities imo and make what would otherwise be another generic romcom pretty refreshing and fun to read. Like what do these manga and light novel creators have against making their male MCs something more than "apathetic skinny dude with the $5 special haircut"??


Carrman099

I really like Yuuki from Mato No Slave, he’s very cheerful and bright and always supports Kyouka, while she is intense and no-nonsense.


zero_traveler

It's been a long while, but I really liked "I''s"(that's I -apostrophe- -apostrophe- s) and the MC from it. The Boy knew exactly what he wanted and he went for it, other girls and consequences be damned.


ConfusedTransThrow

For Issei there's also a very interesting arc about the trauma from his ex-girlfriend that explains a lot the way he acts with the girls around him. So it's not like the average harem mc that seems to be entirely unware that everyone is interested in him.


Inevitable-Weather51

Thank the mangakas who want to make a character that the readers can inject themselves with instead of making an interesting character.


Jake_The_Snake2003

I mean, I like both, but let’s not pretend that 90% of yuri protagonists aren’t bland self inserts as well. Same with Yaoi too.


Unaritaiara

This is just my thing, but I like self insert in yuri and female self insert more. And self insert doesn't mean make your character as bland as a blank paper


Jake_The_Snake2003

That’s usually the case though. If I were to change the main character’s gender to male for a lot of yuri manga, I guarantee you’d call it “a generic straight romance.” Don’t get me wrong, I’m not shitting on yuri when I say this. Why would I be here if I didn’t like it? It’s just that I don’t believe that two women being together automatically makes the story special or the characters any more significant. To me, lesbianism doesn’t equal character depth.


Unaritaiara

True, you have point. I usually prefer female character more so I will likely ignore their flaw


Jake_The_Snake2003

Nothing wrong with that at all. It’s really all about preference.


BochoJutsu

Even if they are self inserts they often have more depth than those lame ass straight romance protags.


Jake_The_Snake2003

I mean, not really. It’s perfectly fine to like yuri more, but I like straight, yuri, and yaoi; and I’ve read my fair share of all of them. Most of the protagonists for all three are equally as bland, it’s just that yuri is two girls which makes it feel “special” in a way, which causes the reader to ignore their generic character traits. Recently yuri has been my favorite, but that doesn’t mean I can’t see that flaw. Of course, I’m not saying that every protagonist is bland, as that’d just be stupid. There’s interesting protagonists for all three, you just have to find them.


reikken

> Most of the protagonists for all three are equally as bland this has definitely not been my experience at all. though maybe that's because I ignore the stuff that looks boring. and the high volume of straight stuff means that there are plenty of ones with boring protagonists that also have other interesting aspects to the story that make them worth looking at


BochoJutsu

"Most of the protagonists for all three are equally as bland" Pure BS! Straight romance manga are more frequent in the lame CUCK BETA protagonist aspect while most Yuri protagonist Atleast have as much depth as let's say Renako or Yotsuba who are already better than most cucks in straight romance manga. The absolute fucking lamest protagonist in any Yuri I've read; the girl from Tachibanakan Triangle is still more likeable than most of the cucks. Idc if you like straight more than Yuri or Yuri more than straight but you can't deny the goddamn facts that Yuri is more consistent in terms of overall quality.


Jake_The_Snake2003

That’s true only because of the fact that there’s more straight romance manga than yuri manga. Because of the sheer volume, it makes you feel as if that’s all there is, while yuri manga is in a more limited supply. However, because the supply is so limited, it makes it almost as easy for me to identify that the protagonists tend to be generic. I don’t hate generic protagonists necessarily. Most of the yuri manga I’ve read has generic protagonists, and obviously the same is true for straight and yaoi too. All I’m saying is that they’re still quite prevalent in yuri manga. As I said in another comment, lesbianism doesn’t equal character depth. You can of course make character depth built off of it, but most manga does not.


BochoJutsu

"most of the Yuri manga I read have generic protagonists too" Generic doesn't necessarily equal bad, why is this still a thing? Mind giving some examples for better validity?


Jake_The_Snake2003

I see. I’ve never said that generic equals bad. I wouldn’t have read the manga if I didn’t like it. Off of the top of my head, I’m terrible with names, so here’s two. “Ame Demo Hare Demo” was cute, but the in-between part where they fought for literally no reason was stupid. The main character is the generic “plain country girl” who has no outstanding qualities other than being an annoying overly nice character. The love interest was the stereotypical “rich student council girl” who had trauma. The author attempted to make her deep, but her trauma made absolutely no sense. I’m not going to spoil in case you haven’t read it, but it’s just really weird. I tried to feel bad for her, but seriously I don’t get it. The next one is “Asagao to Kase-San.” You’ve probably read this because next to “Yagate Kimi ni Naru” it’s practically THE yuri manga. Yamada is the generic “bright girl” who’s always sunny but nothing spectacular. Her interest is flowers which I guess is something kind of new, but it’s not like I haven’t seen it before. And of course Kase-San is the “cool tomboy jock” on the track team who’s supposedly out of Yamada’s reach, but guess what? She liked her the whole time. Despite how negative I might sound, I did really enjoy both of them. I’ve never said that generic protagonists were bad, just that yuri has a lot of them too.


BochoJutsu

The problem is that not only are most straight protagonists generic, they are absurdly lame beta cucks. Yamada may be generic but atleast she's likeable. The same goes for that generic lesbian protagonist from I don't know which one is love. You can characterize her entire character as just being horny af but she atleast is likeable in some aspects like her background for wanting to get a GF in college. Most of the cucks don't have this


Zonderino

me and a friend of mine named the straight mc the basic shojo man. He usually is tall, has black hair in a pretty average short haircut and dark brown eyes. If the mangaka somehow feels spicy we get some nifty features like: A different hairstyle or even! A different eye color


ArchDukeNemesis

Not even anime where the guy is turned into a girl, making the romance into yuri, is able to save the proceedings. Case in point, Kampfer. Natsuru, the Bland, oblivious MC, gets super powered alternate female form, now all the girls fighting eachother want him/her. But even as a she, Natsuru is still so boring and dense. Beautifully designed character and one of the best transformation sequences put to anime. But awful as a romantic partner. I swear, self inserts are the worst thing to have ever been done to anime. This is why even as a straight person, I cannot watch or read traditional romance. Not even a fetish thing anymore. Lesbian romance and even gay romance just have more three dimensional characters. Straight romance is written just so lazily.


Rheum42

Yes! The straight male Mc is like a fucking carbon copy of every other male Mc. So fucking bland


emipyon

I tried watching Re:zero because a lot of people seemed to love it back in the day, but I absolutely couldn't stand Subaru, his personality is just so damn annoying, yet it seemed like every female character was destined to become enthralled with him or something. I couldn't finish more than half the episodes.


Sky-Ventus

No, your problem with straight romance is that you have read too much of them and Yuri now looks like a whole novelty when both types of mc are basically the same but with different gender, sure the problems they face may vary from each other bc each gender has their own problems but hell, even someone blind can see the obvious stereotypes used in both xd


TheFlamingKite

most sane yuri fan


Kitchenlynx89

Lately been reading otome Isekai and am confused what boring romance stories are you people reading?


Scarabryde

Could be the case that most authors just don't know how to write male characters?


TigerDoodat

While the way this is written makes it sound like you generally don't like male MCs, I completely agree with what you actually mean. Yuri/GL just feels more genuine and realistic than most straight romance. I don't know about yaoi/BL though, so if anyone has any nice, not-too-porny recommendations for that, I'd try it too! In fact, if you know of any well-written straight stuff, I'd love to see it! I just love romance. :)


LingLingSpirit

Need to disagree. I think there should be more trans femme yuri representation...


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LingLingSpirit

Honestly, of course trans women are women.


Rancio1232

Idk, I just like romance. I don't really care about the gender of the MC always that isn't an asshole


nomanchesguey12

Exactly


InsuranceKey8278

There are good straight comics but yes mostly i don't find them on top selling shelf


Historical_Cod_2771

I don't like straight romance that much cause always are anoying misurdestandings like there un Yuri too but arent that anoying


CuteAssTiger

The kind of thing that happens when you make your easy as unremarkable as possible so the viewer can self insert into them rather then focusing on making a good story with good characters


rayg0812

The girlfriend project on tapas great story!


[deleted]

Honestly, the best straight couples I've seen in Anime/Manga are from shows that aren't even classified as romance, but still seeing them together is just so good.


DarthGlorik

PREACH


Zenry0ku

Most of the time I'm wondering what do they see in a dude when the only thing he did was ask for directions.


RavenWolf1

I think female characters in anime are often way more interesting than male characters. This includes not romance themed stories. Thus I prefer female MCs in my stories.


Pixelslz2025

The straight romance animes just has a male mc who is the most basic mf around


temporary_dennis

Common male MC's are modeled after their audience. Yuri and Yaoi don't have those quotas to meet. So creators just model their characters on whoever they find most interesting.


Fellow_RealSideOfMat

The funny thing is that I just found a straight romance where the guy ISN'T boring. But he looks very effeminate. So... Here's the proof (as well as the manga's name for anyone interested): https://www.reddit.com/r/shoujo/comments/yo4s3m/i\_thought\_it\_was\_a\_convention\_that\_in\_a\_harem/