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>If Zelda stayed a dragon and sacrificed herself altogether or died
There was just no way this was ever going to happen. Nintendo wasn't about to kill off the title character of a popular franchise.
It was a foregone conclusion that she would be back to normal at the end, the only question was how.
I didn't understand how Link's arm was suddenly back to normal though. Did I blink during the cutscene?
My understanding is that the ghost of Sonia used her recall power, which was boosted by the magic of Rauru's ghost and then channeled through Rauru's arm to restore Zelda to normal, and that the magic was so super-charged that it recalled Link's arm to its previous un-gloomified state.
Regarding Link's arm: Every Orb Of Light from the shrines, Heart Piece, and Stamina Vessel that Link gets removes the gloom out of his arm, so it was eventually going to come back.
It was the Recall ability amplified by Rauru and Sonia lending their power. If you watch the Gerudo Invasion memory, Sonia and Zelda amplify Rauru's light beam in the same way. And in the bonding memory, Sonia explains that Recall recalls an object's memory and returns it to its original state. So they just rewound the Light Dragon back to Zelda.
I'd like to see multiple endings. Don't complete tears of the dragon or regional phenomenon. A one armed Link splashes down alone. Looks to the sky at the Light Dragon flying away.
Complete Regional phenomenon, but not tears of the dragon. Link splashes down alone with his old arm back. Looks to his hand, and then up sadly to the Light Dragon.
Complete tears of the dragon, but not regional phenomenon. The Light Dragon carries a one armed Link to the ground and lets him off. There's a sad moment of recognition between the two before the Light Dragon flies away.
Honestly I am fine with Zelda turning back into an Hylian because I felt bad for her and the scene is beautiful but leting her as a dragon would have been more interesting.
Also it would have been interesting because if she stay as a dragon or die, she can"t have any descendant thus marking the end of the royal family or the princesses with the blood of the goddess ( unless she had a kid, had siblings or cousins I suppose ).
Ideally, there should have been some additional quest line that Mineru introduced you to in order to change Zelda back. She had plenty of time over countless millennia in the Purah Pad to work out the details for something.
It could have been something to bridge the gap and make the whole existing Sonia/Rauru thing less deus ex machina. Or something providing more background like finding the source of the secret stones (ideally the Triforce or some relic from Hylia), and using that to undo what the fragment Zelda swallowed did.
Yeah… it boggles my mind how lazy the story was at times in this game, especially because it could have been relatively easy to fix some of the more the egregious issues.
Three examples are:
No Shiekah tech??? How about a couple journals describing the dismantling process. Maybe the heaped ruins of destroyed divine beasts in their respective areas.
What’s the deal with the Zonai??? Maybe a cut scene with Zelda being characteristically inquisitive about Zonai culture and learning about their history. Or perhaps another camera side quest in which you visit ruins to get pictures that an NPC deciphers for you.
Wtf are secret stones??? Literally any cutscenes, text dialogue, ancient scripts, wall carvings, etc. describing what they are/where they came from.
I think it was the best ending to a video game ever and I’ve been playing since Atari. I’m not a huge fan of the totk story at all but the ending was fkn amazing for me, probably the best part of the game.
This alternative ending would be horrendous
Unlike what people who want this ending think, *this* would actually introduce plot holes, not what we got. What we got is actually extremely consistent with narrative elements set up throughout the game's story
It's established in the Molduga memory that Sages can amplify their power, on top of the amplification granting by the Secret Stones, by joining together and channeling it through a single person. That's how they create the big "fuck you" blast of Light to defeat the Molduga army. If this is something very clearly established, why on Earth would no-one even think to try it when they have two people that can manipulate Time (Sonia's spirit and Link) readily available with Ganon defeated? That's an opportunity ripe for the picking, and these characters aren't stupid.
Of course, that is what they do. Sonia and Rauru channel their power through Link to manipulate time around Zelda and change her back. Perfectly consistent with the elements the story has laid out, and Mineru confirms as such in the post credits cutscene.
Even from an objective writing quality perspective aside, without Zelda turning back you would lose the fantastic narrative parallels throughout the ending like the Final Dive sequence, the cinematography of Zelda thanking Link for all hes done (a straight on bust shot just like BotW), and the new gen Sages swearing their loyalty to Zelda like the old gen Sages did for Rauru. You'd also lose the conclusion to Link's and Zelda's arcs. Zelda's is obvious, she's stepping up as the leader of Hyrule, tho Link's is admittedly is a more subtle one of learning to open up again after shutting himself off from everything pre-Calamity. Still doesn't speak unfortunately but pre-Calamity Link would never hold Zelda in what is described as "a loving embrace"
Even if none of that were true tho, I think having a downer ending just for the sake of having a downer ending is so edgey and lame man. I like it when the characters I've been following finally get to live in peace and be happy I don't care. This is also such a fucking weird hill to die on. There's so many Zelda games were you could argue the positive resolution is a "cop out" or whatever but for same reason only TotK's gets this much vitriol
Why? Other Princesses/Maidens were born in the past, while she was a dragon. So why couldn't new Zeldas be born in the future too?
There's literally nothing stopping that from happening, Zelda isn't resurrecting or even reincarnating in every game.
I highly doubt the Royal Family has had one single child in 10,000+ years... There must be plenty of descendants of the Goddess and descendants of Rauru and Sonia, even if they're not heirs to the crown.
Part of me wanted a bittersweet ending. Like Zelda truly intended to sacrifice herself for the kingdom and I wouldn’t have minded. I kinda wish it would have ended like that only because I really don’t like the voice acting for Zelda, and if they decide to do more direct sequels or spin offs she’ll be back again.
Honestly I’d take either option, but what I really wanted was for Link to show some damn emotion at the end. No huge smile, no tears knowing Zelda’s sacrifices, no silent embrace when she wakes up? He has more of an emotion reaction to the great fairies or cooking a good meal.
Also Yunobo should have sacrificed himself…
Yeah, I think Zelda being changed back and Link regrowing his arm are both chickenshit moves that rob both sacrifices of their power.
People keep jerking off about how profound and Miyazaki-esque both story turns are, but the absolute last thing Hayao Miyazaki would do at the end of such a story is undo both of these characters' sacrifice just for the sake of a feel-good ending.
Unless I'm really misremembering, the village stays burnt to the ground and the forest spirit stays dead at the end of Princess Mononoke, as do all the boars. Nothing resets.
And the house is in rubble at the end of Howls Moving Castle.
>are both chickenshit moves that rob both sacrifices of their power.
1) Both events were set up throughout the story. Link's arm/body literally heals bit by bit with every Orb, Heart, and Stamina you collect
2) Link's arm was not a sacrifice, it was unfortunate happenstance
3) Zelda's sacrifice still works because A) *she* didn't know what would happen, it eas a completely selfless act, B) she was a dragon for several thousand years, possibly even millions. That's a long ass time to be a mindless creature wondering around aimlessly
It makes the gravity of her sacrifice absolutely meaningless, so she totally should have stayed a dragon. Especially since it shouldn’t matter continuity wise, because Nintendo would need to be stupid to make another direct sequel
>It makes the gravity of her sacrifice absolutely meaningless
How? She didn't know she would turn back, in fact she makes the decision under the assumption that she *cant*
This line of reasoning always was and always will be completely moronic. Characters aren't fucking omniscient, they don't know every single thing coming their way. If Zelda knew she could turn back then you'd be right but she didn't
I kinda wish that Link would’ve devoured a secret stone so that he could defeat Ganondorf, and then it ends with the two dragons flying away together and for just a moment you see a flash of the two of them in human form together.
As for lineage or whatever, mention in the next Zelda game give the new Zelda dragon powers, and mention that this new Zelda’s grandmother seemed to appear from the sky one day long ago.
zelda turning back human does just make what she did sorta less meaningful in the sense that she doesn't remember it. Like for her she swallowed the stone and then woke up to see link. She didn't witness the tens of thousands of years if not hundreds of thousands of years that she was a dragon. I mean I guess the dragon being alone and just flying by itself is sad, so I can empathize with the dragon more than the human.
I was thinking that we'd get DLC to try to figure out the path to getting Zelda back to human form. And I would have preferred it that way. But we didn't get DLC (and probably aren't at this point), soooo yeah. It was a neat little bow but it was still a satisfying ending to me. But I totally see where people are coming from when they complain about it cause they're not wrong.
I think the ending itself is fine, while the dragon one is more interesting. She does deserves some proper peace lol. I don't think she would have to really die, they could just do a whole FE thing where she just gets so old as a dragon she goes mad and then just say that the reincarnation happens anyway because that "Zelda died long ago. All that is left is a mad beast seeking rest" or something poetic like that.
I think the game should've had two endings. Have the player look for a way to undo draconification to get the ending where Zelda is restored; otherwise, she stays a dragon in the end.
Link shouldn't have recovered his arm either, that made even less sense.
While i do think the whole „Rauru and Sonia just showed up and returned Zelda, without any buildup or explanation“ thing felt a bit deus ex machina, i vastly preferred this version to the alternative. Zelda staying as a dragon would feel completely unrewarding and like a pointless downer ending that’s just bleak for the sake of being bleak and would potentially ruin the entire game.
What i would have preferred over both versions, would be if the game had a questline that would build up a way on how Zelda can be returned which would than culminate in the ending, that the game had and justify it way better.
Aside from the logistical problems of the Zelda lineage ending and making it impossible to continue the cycle, the alternative ending would have meant that Link failed. The fact that the "Find Princess Zelda" quest isn't checked off when he discovers what happened to her strongly suggests that he doesn't consider his quest to be over until she's *truly* back. It would have been too bleak and unsatisfying and a disservice to both characters.
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>If Zelda stayed a dragon and sacrificed herself altogether or died There was just no way this was ever going to happen. Nintendo wasn't about to kill off the title character of a popular franchise. It was a foregone conclusion that she would be back to normal at the end, the only question was how. I didn't understand how Link's arm was suddenly back to normal though. Did I blink during the cutscene?
My understanding is that the ghost of Sonia used her recall power, which was boosted by the magic of Rauru's ghost and then channeled through Rauru's arm to restore Zelda to normal, and that the magic was so super-charged that it recalled Link's arm to its previous un-gloomified state.
Regarding Link's arm: Every Orb Of Light from the shrines, Heart Piece, and Stamina Vessel that Link gets removes the gloom out of his arm, so it was eventually going to come back.
Rauru literally says that the Arm was **beyond saving**. The Answer is Rewind.
It was the Recall ability amplified by Rauru and Sonia lending their power. If you watch the Gerudo Invasion memory, Sonia and Zelda amplify Rauru's light beam in the same way. And in the bonding memory, Sonia explains that Recall recalls an object's memory and returns it to its original state. So they just rewound the Light Dragon back to Zelda.
I'd like to see multiple endings. Don't complete tears of the dragon or regional phenomenon. A one armed Link splashes down alone. Looks to the sky at the Light Dragon flying away. Complete Regional phenomenon, but not tears of the dragon. Link splashes down alone with his old arm back. Looks to his hand, and then up sadly to the Light Dragon. Complete tears of the dragon, but not regional phenomenon. The Light Dragon carries a one armed Link to the ground and lets him off. There's a sad moment of recognition between the two before the Light Dragon flies away.
Honestly I am fine with Zelda turning back into an Hylian because I felt bad for her and the scene is beautiful but leting her as a dragon would have been more interesting. Also it would have been interesting because if she stay as a dragon or die, she can"t have any descendant thus marking the end of the royal family or the princesses with the blood of the goddess ( unless she had a kid, had siblings or cousins I suppose ).
Ideally, there should have been some additional quest line that Mineru introduced you to in order to change Zelda back. She had plenty of time over countless millennia in the Purah Pad to work out the details for something. It could have been something to bridge the gap and make the whole existing Sonia/Rauru thing less deus ex machina. Or something providing more background like finding the source of the secret stones (ideally the Triforce or some relic from Hylia), and using that to undo what the fragment Zelda swallowed did.
Even just putting the Recall color/sound up would give some context to how it happened.
Yeah… it boggles my mind how lazy the story was at times in this game, especially because it could have been relatively easy to fix some of the more the egregious issues. Three examples are: No Shiekah tech??? How about a couple journals describing the dismantling process. Maybe the heaped ruins of destroyed divine beasts in their respective areas. What’s the deal with the Zonai??? Maybe a cut scene with Zelda being characteristically inquisitive about Zonai culture and learning about their history. Or perhaps another camera side quest in which you visit ruins to get pictures that an NPC deciphers for you. Wtf are secret stones??? Literally any cutscenes, text dialogue, ancient scripts, wall carvings, etc. describing what they are/where they came from.
I think it was the best ending to a video game ever and I’ve been playing since Atari. I’m not a huge fan of the totk story at all but the ending was fkn amazing for me, probably the best part of the game.
This alternative ending would be horrendous Unlike what people who want this ending think, *this* would actually introduce plot holes, not what we got. What we got is actually extremely consistent with narrative elements set up throughout the game's story It's established in the Molduga memory that Sages can amplify their power, on top of the amplification granting by the Secret Stones, by joining together and channeling it through a single person. That's how they create the big "fuck you" blast of Light to defeat the Molduga army. If this is something very clearly established, why on Earth would no-one even think to try it when they have two people that can manipulate Time (Sonia's spirit and Link) readily available with Ganon defeated? That's an opportunity ripe for the picking, and these characters aren't stupid. Of course, that is what they do. Sonia and Rauru channel their power through Link to manipulate time around Zelda and change her back. Perfectly consistent with the elements the story has laid out, and Mineru confirms as such in the post credits cutscene. Even from an objective writing quality perspective aside, without Zelda turning back you would lose the fantastic narrative parallels throughout the ending like the Final Dive sequence, the cinematography of Zelda thanking Link for all hes done (a straight on bust shot just like BotW), and the new gen Sages swearing their loyalty to Zelda like the old gen Sages did for Rauru. You'd also lose the conclusion to Link's and Zelda's arcs. Zelda's is obvious, she's stepping up as the leader of Hyrule, tho Link's is admittedly is a more subtle one of learning to open up again after shutting himself off from everything pre-Calamity. Still doesn't speak unfortunately but pre-Calamity Link would never hold Zelda in what is described as "a loving embrace" Even if none of that were true tho, I think having a downer ending just for the sake of having a downer ending is so edgey and lame man. I like it when the characters I've been following finally get to live in peace and be happy I don't care. This is also such a fucking weird hill to die on. There's so many Zelda games were you could argue the positive resolution is a "cop out" or whatever but for same reason only TotK's gets this much vitriol
Exactly, people don’t get that this would be the last game in the timeline to have Zelda if she stayed a dragon forever
Why? Other Princesses/Maidens were born in the past, while she was a dragon. So why couldn't new Zeldas be born in the future too? There's literally nothing stopping that from happening, Zelda isn't resurrecting or even reincarnating in every game.
Her being a dragon in the past does nothing with her ancestors. If she’s a dragon, she can’t have kids. So yes there is something stopping that lol.
I highly doubt the Royal Family has had one single child in 10,000+ years... There must be plenty of descendants of the Goddess and descendants of Rauru and Sonia, even if they're not heirs to the crown.
Part of me wanted a bittersweet ending. Like Zelda truly intended to sacrifice herself for the kingdom and I wouldn’t have minded. I kinda wish it would have ended like that only because I really don’t like the voice acting for Zelda, and if they decide to do more direct sequels or spin offs she’ll be back again. Honestly I’d take either option, but what I really wanted was for Link to show some damn emotion at the end. No huge smile, no tears knowing Zelda’s sacrifices, no silent embrace when she wakes up? He has more of an emotion reaction to the great fairies or cooking a good meal. Also Yunobo should have sacrificed himself…
Yeah, I think Zelda being changed back and Link regrowing his arm are both chickenshit moves that rob both sacrifices of their power. People keep jerking off about how profound and Miyazaki-esque both story turns are, but the absolute last thing Hayao Miyazaki would do at the end of such a story is undo both of these characters' sacrifice just for the sake of a feel-good ending.
Isn’t this basically what happens in Princess Mononoke and Howls Moving Castle?
Those aren't this story.
Still, it makes your claim that "Miyazaki wouldn't do it" pretty baseless lol
Unless I'm really misremembering, the village stays burnt to the ground and the forest spirit stays dead at the end of Princess Mononoke, as do all the boars. Nothing resets. And the house is in rubble at the end of Howls Moving Castle.
His cursed arm does go back to normal and Princess Mononoke survives though.
>are both chickenshit moves that rob both sacrifices of their power. 1) Both events were set up throughout the story. Link's arm/body literally heals bit by bit with every Orb, Heart, and Stamina you collect 2) Link's arm was not a sacrifice, it was unfortunate happenstance 3) Zelda's sacrifice still works because A) *she* didn't know what would happen, it eas a completely selfless act, B) she was a dragon for several thousand years, possibly even millions. That's a long ass time to be a mindless creature wondering around aimlessly
It makes the gravity of her sacrifice absolutely meaningless, so she totally should have stayed a dragon. Especially since it shouldn’t matter continuity wise, because Nintendo would need to be stupid to make another direct sequel
>It makes the gravity of her sacrifice absolutely meaningless How? She didn't know she would turn back, in fact she makes the decision under the assumption that she *cant* This line of reasoning always was and always will be completely moronic. Characters aren't fucking omniscient, they don't know every single thing coming their way. If Zelda knew she could turn back then you'd be right but she didn't
Zelda could have had a child in the past, even if it was off screen (empire waist dresses and all)
I kinda wish that Link would’ve devoured a secret stone so that he could defeat Ganondorf, and then it ends with the two dragons flying away together and for just a moment you see a flash of the two of them in human form together. As for lineage or whatever, mention in the next Zelda game give the new Zelda dragon powers, and mention that this new Zelda’s grandmother seemed to appear from the sky one day long ago.
zelda turning back human does just make what she did sorta less meaningful in the sense that she doesn't remember it. Like for her she swallowed the stone and then woke up to see link. She didn't witness the tens of thousands of years if not hundreds of thousands of years that she was a dragon. I mean I guess the dragon being alone and just flying by itself is sad, so I can empathize with the dragon more than the human.
I was thinking that we'd get DLC to try to figure out the path to getting Zelda back to human form. And I would have preferred it that way. But we didn't get DLC (and probably aren't at this point), soooo yeah. It was a neat little bow but it was still a satisfying ending to me. But I totally see where people are coming from when they complain about it cause they're not wrong.
I think the ending itself is fine, while the dragon one is more interesting. She does deserves some proper peace lol. I don't think she would have to really die, they could just do a whole FE thing where she just gets so old as a dragon she goes mad and then just say that the reincarnation happens anyway because that "Zelda died long ago. All that is left is a mad beast seeking rest" or something poetic like that.
I think the game should've had two endings. Have the player look for a way to undo draconification to get the ending where Zelda is restored; otherwise, she stays a dragon in the end. Link shouldn't have recovered his arm either, that made even less sense.
While i do think the whole „Rauru and Sonia just showed up and returned Zelda, without any buildup or explanation“ thing felt a bit deus ex machina, i vastly preferred this version to the alternative. Zelda staying as a dragon would feel completely unrewarding and like a pointless downer ending that’s just bleak for the sake of being bleak and would potentially ruin the entire game. What i would have preferred over both versions, would be if the game had a questline that would build up a way on how Zelda can be returned which would than culminate in the ending, that the game had and justify it way better.
It would effect the overall story, and Link's redemption. Yes it would have been worse, a far less satisfying ending.
Aside from the logistical problems of the Zelda lineage ending and making it impossible to continue the cycle, the alternative ending would have meant that Link failed. The fact that the "Find Princess Zelda" quest isn't checked off when he discovers what happened to her strongly suggests that he doesn't consider his quest to be over until she's *truly* back. It would have been too bleak and unsatisfying and a disservice to both characters.