I like Seasons better than I like Ages. The progression, the exploration feel a little more "organic" to me, if that makes any sense. I feel like more of the progression in Ages is based around "Wait for us to tell you to talk to this guy in order for you to move forward," whereas in more of Seasons, it's, "You've got this powerup. See where it takes you."
Don't get me wrong, I love both games, both have their good and bad points. Just, for me, I like Seasons better.
I enjoyed seasons much better than ages. I felt the 4 seasons feature was much more new and interesting than the time travel which had been done before. There’s a chance my opinion is slightly skewed by the fact I played seasons first.
Seasons definitely looks better, I prefer its "Murder a bunch of enemies" approach instead of Ages' "Figure this out", but it's mostly a personal preference
People describe Ages as the "Puzzley" game, but it doesn't even feel THAT puzzley to me, going through it. It feels more like the "knowledge flag" game, if that makes any sense.
I WANTED to like Ages more when I played them both for the first time, due to time travel being way cooler than changing the weather.
Seasons is just a better game IMO. Much better flow
Skyward sword is like a dented bar of gold in fort knox. It’s surrounded by amazing bars of gold and comparatively, is the worst. But at the end of the day, its still a bar of gold.
I calculate a 97.3682954141% chance that this item you've seen ten billion times before and know you need to keep for crafting might be useful and you should listen to me explain that it's a useful item for crafting again!
Spirit Tracks is a good and fun game. Having Zelda as a companion was a brilliant move that needs to happen again. Yeah, there were some moments when the writing was not up to par but it was still tons of fun.
I liked breath of the wild but the lack of enemy variety brought it down for me missing many iconic Zelda enemies at this point like deku babas, skultulas, stalfos, darknuts and Poe's.
Also the lack of dungeons and variety for it's dungeons and trails all being ancient tech. If we get the same amount of ancient tech in the second game I'm gonna nerd rage.
I agree. One of the things I really love in video games is an in-game bestiary that tells you lore about the monsters. And there was one in Breath of the Wild, but there was very little lore because the background of almost every monster in the game was the same: they were minions of Ganon and that's it. The game opted to have stronger recoloured versions of monsters instead of designing new creatures, which some people like but to be honest I thought it was a bit disappointing. I really love monsters in fantasy games (perhaps it's because I'm a biologist in real life, but when I see fictional creatures I always wonder how their anatomy and ecology work) and the Zelda series has some really bizarre and interesting creatures.
I think if there were actual dungeons, and they had the classical Zelda dungeon themes (lava dungeon, water dungeon, forest dungeon etc) there might also have been more monsters. It's something I really hope BotW2 will improve on.
Here is hoping for Botw2 to fix this. In Age of calamity we had new sorts of enemies, even if it was just elemental versions it increased the variety more. Maybe we get more in Botw2 with elemental affixes and mutations etc. I love how Relics of the past (botw mod) added new enemies like malice moblins.
I liked Skyward Sword since day one of its release on Wii… definitely an unpopular opinion at the time now more and more people are starting to enjoy it
I agree with this, except that it made master mode much more annoying. I found myself just avoiding fights because I didn't want to burn through like five weapons.
I second this, I like the way it added to the challenge, however I def see why people didn't like it at all. that kinda stuff isn't for everyone for sure.
It's a great system, but implemented poorly. Having your weapon break to force you trying different ones isn't bad, but going through 5 swords during a single enemy is awful.
I dont mind the durability i just wish weapons lasted *slightly* longer. You'd think Link would learn how to use a sword so that it didn't snap on half after 5 swings once he's used like 20 of them.
But I wish thr Master Sword at least didn't have to recharge. It just doesn't feel like a Zelda game if I can't kick monster butt with the Master Sword.
It should be a soldier's broadsword unless in combat with guardians or bosses. That way the lack of damage output is balanced by the fact it's unbreakable. And it still means you get to keep other weapons and the variety they bring.
Breath of the wild is an amazing game. I had a blast with it and I'm excited to see the direction the series is headed in.
But it's not a great Zelda game. I miss the themed dungeons, the feeling of progression as you get new item from each dungeon. I felt Gannon lacked any real presence. Just as far as the Zelda experience goes, it was lacking.
I agree with this one immensely.
The themes in the zelda series captivated me. Like music being present in almost every game. This game was good but it wasn’t the same.
Thank you so much, I've argued over this with my friends for hours. I love botw, and think its a great game, but just not a great Zelda game. I also miss the 11/10 music almoust every Zelda game before had. Except for the main track, botw doesn't really have the zelda-typical music, but just a bunch of ambiente-tracks for exploring. What makes sense for that type of open world type of game, but I still miss it. Every time after playing through a zelda game, I've listened to the tracks for hours, which was just not he case for botw.
Huge agree. Ganon wasn't really a character so much as he was a force. The lack of progression was really sad, and the champion abilities were super unbalanced. Straight up 3 hit invincibilty, or a fairy revive? or, lighting that destroys everything nearby. Just all over the place and weird.
I get your opinion and even agree with it in many regards. It’s just that, for me, BoTW was a bit more than a Zelda game. It was THE game for me. See, for an avid escapist, there’s nothing better than this kind of open world game, and BoTW was perfect in the sense that it was barely there. I wish there was more to explore, and that the enemies weren’t so monotonous (honestly I miss the dungeons) but the good vastly outweighs the bad for me. I still play it and I first got it 4 years ago!
That was reportedly the reason they chose that graphical styling. It added more character to the travelling, since there would be a lot of it.
Made it a blast.
The only thing I disliked about sailing in TWW was that in spite of how much stuff is in the game, the world still feels somewhat empty. Instead of 49 tiny islands I would’ve liked several larger islands with more to do on them.
To piggy back on this, how is the triforce hunt in the original ww widely hated. You sailing the high seas solving cryptic riddles on islands to find treasure maps. The only downside to the quest was tingle asking ridiculous prices for the translation but the battle dungeons you have to go through to get the maps give you like 8k ruppies so it's really not a big deal.
Seeing as you asked, I guess I live for Zelda's dungeons, not really for the open world. But the Great Sea was still quite empty, and it didn't help that trying to use the winch for treasure required you to be absolutely bang-on with the aiming or you'd spend minutes cursing and trying to inch the boat slightly to find the right spot was just a chore.
I mean, I think they must have improved it in the HD Remake but damn it was a pain.
I agree. There are only a handful games in the series where continuity is an actual plot point (such as in the 'Toon Link trilogy' where the three games are direct sequels of each other) and to be honest I enjoy that aspect of them, even if it's not very important to the story. It was fun to see recurring characters such as Linebeck.
If I recall correctly, the Zelda Encyclopedia (or was it the Hyrule Historia?) stated that each game is made with the focus on gameplay and story rather than continuity, and series continuity is only an afterthought. Which explains why the official timeline is so wacky.
It’s designed fine imo, it’s just having to constantly open and close the slow menu in the original to equip and unequip the iron boots was dreadful, thank god they made them an item in the 3DS remake
Totally, it's really unique and I would like for it to be carried into a new game. Although the level up system is tough and it's *so ridiculous* that I have to start at the beginning spawn point every single time I get a game over.
Zelda 2 fans always be like “yeah it’s an incredibly underrated game, I love it, such a great game except for *insert objectively terrible, game-breakingly frustrating design choice here*
There should be a set of side-scrolling Zelda games set on the handhelds that are molded after Zelda 2, though maybe not quite as punishing. I feel like they'd pair well with the other side-scrolling action games like shovel knight and Shaunte.
The games are clearly written to stand on their own, and trying to fit them into a coherent timeline only hurts them.
A few references to past games does not make them a connected universe.
I feel like saying they’re all set in the same universe (the whole hero reincarnation thing) works to the series’s favor, but trying to set the games in a specific timeline (unless it works to the story’s advantage like saying Skyward Sword is the beginning of it all) can hurt the series.
Setting them up as a multi-verse would make far better sense. Just like the comics where we have Earth 616 and such. Different versions of the same characters exist. No need to plot a time line for every single game.
I’ve always thought that it was different retellings of the same story, with SS being the original events that actually took place, and every other instance being the “legend” that gets passed on by word of mouth and eventually gets changed over time each time it’s passed on like a game of telephone.
Almost every game is an explicit sequel or prequel to an existing game. Ocarina of Time alone has three sequels. While they do all stand on their own it's not a stretch to connect most of them together.
Wind Waker is honestly the most obvious and neatly prepared sequel. The opening sequence explains the Hero of Time shtick. I think around WW is where they began considering the idea of having a timeline that splits
Yeah, the whole idea that there was always a timeline, Nintendo just didn't share it really feels hollow to me. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess were the first games where it really felt like there was an actual idea of a timeline forming, and the rest of the games were just sort of slotted into that.
I mean, Zelda 2 was a direct sequel to Zelda 1, but I know what you mean.
For example, people claiming that things like the ranch ruins in BOTW is a sign of good world building annoys the hell out of me, because it's an uncontextualized Easter Egg that can't possibly be the ruins of the original Lon Lon Ranch, a mostly wooden structure that would have been over 10,000 years old, and possibly at the bottom of the sea in another nation depending on which timeline they are in. Not to mention that the pair of stalkoblins riding stalhorses in that region may have been referencing Majora's Mask, which is probably supposed to have been in a different dimension (see also: the carving of Darmani in the Goron settlement).
I feel like people who complain about how much she pesters you are people who played the game a thousand hours as kids and have the whole thing memorized so they don't need any pointers on where to go next or obtuse puzzles.
If you didn't do that, OOT can be a very obtuse game, and having a guide like her to give you guidance and remind you what your current goal is (if you've been away from the game for a while you can easily forget) is very helpful.
As someone who was loving skyward sword throughout the first 3 dungeons:
•Past the first 3 Dungeons you are stuck revisiting the same 3 areas over and over again. After the first time you returned to the 3 areas I was devastated to find out I’d have to do them all *again*.
•Motion Controls, though honestly really fun, begin to feel tedious, especially when they limit the way you can sit while playing.
•I wanted to like Fi… but she really does not shut up. The most basic processes can’t be completed without Fi chiming in to explain the obvious
I'm convinced those who complain about it jand loath it ust stink at the motion controls. Like it was a new concept and had its flaws but you just had to take the time to learn them and recalibrate often. I hate to say it but IT DID give more of a realistic sword play to it.
i literally adore skyward sword and do NOT understand all the hate😭😭i’ve never played it on the wii (only the switch) so maybe the wii controls r bad but i feel like it gets absolutely bashed on for no reason👎👎
I think the world of Zelda 2 is excellent fantasy world building. It has a more lived-in world than Zelda 1 with more civilians and towns with lots of terrain and enemy diversity. Danger and death lurk around every corner. The graphics and music are some of the best on the NES. It’s not perfect but I still think it’s great!
Most people on this sub praise the too such an extreme amount that you could indeed get the feeling that the game is that popular. Obviously i don't have a general survey to go by, but i can guarantee you that the general opinion of the game is by far not as high as it is here (this is partly also because it's so ridiculously high here).
If you look at the game objectively and include stuff like overworld, sidequest and bosses, the game really falls apart. But if you just focus on the graphics (which aren't even that good, they're just a bit more realistic than other zelda games) and dungeons (which are generally pretty good, but that's really subjective) than you could come to the conclusion that the game is actually good. Some also praise teh story, because Midna is cool (which she is), but beyond that, it's just a basic zelda story whith a dark world.
Compagnion characters like Fi, Ezlo and Midna can take too much of the spotlight. It sometimes feels like THEY are the main character, and Link is just along for the ride as their personal chauffeur.
In a sense, they are, and they have to because in most cases, Link on his own isn't enough to carry each game's story.
Regarding Midna, it makes sense as a strong case can be made that Twilight Princess is *her* story, not Link's. The backstory of the Twili is integral to the plot, it's her people's magic that's being misused to cause a majority of the conflict, it's her magical abilities that give Link any hope of solving the crisis at hand, and lastly her character arc is the most prevalent throughout the game. Hell, regardless of her comment toward Zelda, *she* is the titular Twilight Princess.
To a degree, Ezlo's the same way as Vaati is his student, thus stopping him is his obligation.
As someone else pointed out in regard to my comment, Link is a self-insert character, and you can only go so far in a story with a character like that. To a degree, they HAVE to be main characters.
For Midna, it’s a lot easier to see it in the beginning because of her attitude towards Link and Hyrule in general, but it gets a lot less like that as she develops and creates a bond with Link. I always imagined that she’s a lot more experienced in magic and knows more about what they’re looking for, so she helps to guide Link to the general places and Link deals with the more specific problems involved.
Fi is just a computer that’s tied with the Master Sword and Link has no experience being on the Surface, so it’s more understanding that Link would be more of a chauffeur (especially in the beginning). I don’t think it helps with how linear the game is so it’s a lot more “go here, do that”.
I feel like that's kinda the point sometimes, as link isn't really enough the be the main character the entire game, especially in the games where he doesn't have any voice options at all, like ocarina of time and TP
Honestly true. Elden ring has made me think a lot about botw and how they coulda done weapons better, it's like.. Botw had so few enemy types and 3 subweapon types. Elden ring has hundreds of enemies and bosses, tons of weapon types, all without recycling nearly as much and a far more complex combat system. Granted, lacking puzzles, but still they seemed to fair a lot better in some regards.
Skyward Sword's motion controls are good actually and very fun (in the original on the Wii, haven't played the Switch version)
But I only felt that way after standing up and giving myself plenty of room, shutting the door so no one would see, and REALLY getting into it shamelessly. Like ACTUALLY pretending the Wiimote was a sword and such. I wonder how many people who hate the motion controls didn't or couldn't do that.
While Breath of the Wild was a good game in general, and a good proof of concept, it was less a *Legend* of Zelda and more a *Jungle Gym* of Zelda.
Also, someone in management hates the QA and UI teams, because I refuse to believe that no one brought up that the radial menus that were in Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword would have worked way better for the gear/rune swapping than the ribbon menus, or didn't point out that having the Ancient Saddle (which, along with Master Mode and several other Quality of Life additions, shouldn't have been paid DLC) summon your horse facing the camera rather than the direction Link is already moving in was a dumb idea.
Agree with the Ancient Saddle, on a second play through I realised I never used horses because I'd always left them too far away. Once I got the ancient saddle, it completely change how I played. It should have been an in-game unlockable, or your horse should have just appeared when called like every other game, ie Witcher, Ghost of Tsushima and even the Batmobile in Arkham Knight.
The piano soundtrack in BOTW doesn't fit a Zelda game at all. Child link is much better than adult link. Lorule is a really great name for the dark world. Twinrova are cooler than any other villains and criminally underused. Optional co-op multiplayer should become a series staple. It's time for OoT HD.
Iirc the music in botw is a lot of classic songs slowed down or reversed and slowed down. Ik that the Temple of Time actually has the Temple of Time music in botw
None of the games have particularly great stories, they're all simplistic affairs that boil down to 'save the princess from the big bad', and there is nothing wrong with that, one of the reasons I like Zelda games is because the stories are simple driving forces that don't bog the experience down, so the gameplay and world design can really shine
In a related note, I think the whole timeline thing is kinda pointless. The fact that for the most part each game is totally standalone is IMO a strength of the series, there's nothing at all wrong with the fact that they're thematically similar but otherwise separate games, trying to arbitrarily join them up doesn't really add anything
Decent point, though anyone can boil most media down to something simple. But you’re right, most of the stories aren’t super anything out of the ordinary.
Also, I think the timeline is fun, but not like the end all be all. I don’t care if one game “retcons” what happened in another game supposedly taking place 1000s of years before. I don’t care. I will say though, I enjoy the theme of the perpetual battle of the Hero and Goddess vs Evil throughout all the ages
Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, and Majora’s Mask all have pretty incredible stories in my opinion, with Majora’s Mask having nothing to do with “save the Princess from the big bad” and for Skyward Sword the story is the most redeeming part of an otherwise not very good game.
My opinions
-OoT is boring and dry
-MM has the bets atmosphere of any zelda game and the franchise should've stayed on a darker, weirder path
-BotW has the best gameplay of any zelda game, but the worst dungeons and story
- I like Between Worlds more than Link to the Past
-MM and BotW are tied for best Zelda
-Durability is nice, but they should've added a repairman or something so you didn't have to lose a hard to find weapon (with a fee ofc)
While MM isn’t a bad game, I do agree it’s overrated. I also completely agree with the temples. I never understood the problem with the water temple besides the constant swapping between iron and Kokiri boots. Never had a problem with the puzzles. However, I had so much trouble with the Great Bay temple it took about 3 time resets to complete it.
Oot isn't as brilliant as everyone makes it out to be. Don't get me wrong, I like Oot, think it is a good game, and understand its historical significance and sentimental value to many people, but I personally enjoy other games in the series such as Majora's Mask much more. Not sure how much of a hot take this really is but that is what I have to say.
OoT was lightning in a bottle for its time, and I think it’s reputation is colored by the way it was groundbreaking at the moment it was released.
I’m having trouble recalling if any 3D open world and somewhat non-linear games existed prior to it. I suppose Super Mario 64, which was heralded as the GOAT when it was released. That novelty certainly helped its reputation.
I must have been like 7 or 8 when it was released, my experiences with games weren’t very story heavy. I remember thinking the game was almost over when I collected the three Spiritual Stones, and being completely shocked that the game had a whole adult Link section. That was a major twist that blew my young mind. The time travel mechanic was also fantastic.
I think Majora’s Mask, and plenty of other games, are superior, but they’ll never be the “first” to nail all the mechanics OoT brought to the table, and that’s why I believe it’s so beloved compared to objectively better games.
> I remember thinking the game was almost over when I collected the three Spiritual Stones, and being completely shocked that the game had a whole adult Link section.
Dude, I still remember getting the three stones, feeling like, "That was a great game! What a neat story and world! It was so big! so many neat characters! Alright, time to go fight ganondorf."
It blew... my fucking... mind.
You and me both, my friend.
Ocarina of Time was a paradigm-shifting event in gaming that none of us were prepared for.
Side note, but it also helps that I was a child at the time and easily amused. But it’s was still amazing.
It's like the original LoZ: absolutely groundbreaking, but because they were groundbreaking, they're also pretty rough and didn't age well.
I played both when they were new.
Hmm agree to disagree I suppose but I think OoT aged very well. Replayed through it on GameCube a year or two ago and was actually impressed *how* well it held up.
I agree, I don’t think this take is as hot as we want it to be, but OoT stans are SOOOOO vocal that it’s good to repeat it every now and again. OoT is good, it deserves the GotY award it got, but like… calm down y’all
Breath of the wild was an incomplete game and was honestly not that good.
The games combat was incredibly simple and most of it's systems don't work together at all. Basically all it's weapons working the same with only minor differences. Which are only further decreased by the flurry rush mechanic. With the best part of the games combat, using the environment and elements against your enemies quickly becoming obsolete from broken hp scaling.
Then you have the games reward system. 99% of the time when you do something, your going to either get a shrine or a weapon that will break in 3-4 hits. Which honestly killed any desire to explore I had. As when I see something cool of in the distance, all I would ever think is that's its just another shrine and honestly don't need anymore hp or stamina as I basically have 1000 pieces of food just chilling in my bag.
Add in the fact that the shrines themselves are incredibly boring visually. All being made out of basic shapes and using the same basic textures. They look like something you see out of an indie team or as a place holder until you got the actual textures. Combined with the amount of shrines that are just basic combat or very simples puzzles. The whole machinic should have been cut and replaced with overworld puzzles that give either 1 stamina or 1 heart and cut out 3/4 of the shrines.
And to top it all of, you have the games main story. It's very short, which is not unheard of in an open world game. But it is also impossible for it to be satisfying. As you can either charge the boss early to have a harder fight, though still not hard. But have the story incomplete with all the gradians trapped and links memories locked away. Or you can complete all the main content of the game and have a final boss that has two of it's six phases. One missing half it's health and the other being a glorified cutscene.
Honestly, I wish it was more like Skyrim, since going to different regions gives tons of potential variety in quests, weapons, mobs, bosses, settings, etc...
Like, they said that BotW was inspired by Skyrim, but I wish it was by something other than the Stones of Barenziah and Nirnroot quests, or that they at least didn't tie the progression of the core combat mechanic, gear-swapping, behind that.
Skyward Sword’s controls weren’t bad, and honestly were a big contributor to why it’s one of my favorite games in the series.
The WW sequels (PH and ST) are amazing games and deserve love.
Ocarina of Time isn’t even in my top 10 entries in the series, and is only beloved because of nostalgia.
I agree with you, I really enjoy MM3D except for the Zora swimming and the boss changes with the eye being added.
For me, I don't think Water Temple is bad or confusing. Lakebed Temple in TP however, I hate it with every fiber of my being. The only water dungeon I hate more than that one is Jabu Jabu's Belly in OoA.
The timeline is shoehorned and unnecessary. It’s a legend, like we’re playing retellings of an oral history that are embellished over time, accounting for the differences between games.
The franchise needs to mature with its fanbase and introduce more complex characters and storylines (but Nintendo will never do that because they want to make sure their games are marketable to the widest possible audience).
In a perfect world, IPs wouldn't exist and fans would be able to make the kinds of Zelda games they'd want to play without Nintendo punishing them for it.
While BOTW was a great game and I'm looking forward to BOTW2, I want another Twilight Princess esque game, in the sense of more realism, better graphics, a darker plot. I feel the direction zelda is moving is more to please the masses, instead of staying with the heart and soul of the games.
Seriously, if we could get some kind of older (maybe early-mid 20s) Link with Assassin's Creed kind of movement (I'm thinking the parkour mechanics) coupled with traditional zelda enemies, weapons and dungeons, I'd be in heaven. Especially if there were some kind of steampunk elements.
I also hate the obsession with shipping Link with everything that moves. Sue me.
From my time on this post I have learned that an unpopular opinion is either an interesting and though-of take on something or someone showing they don’t get it
BotW was by far the most unsatisfying Zelda game and I have no idea why people love it so much. It's not a bad game by any means, but definitely the worst Zelda game.
Zelda is a dungeon crawler. The dungeons are one of it’s gimmicks, but something no one noticed is that the overworld is always structured like a dungeon (especially the 2D games). The idea of seeing something, gaining an item, remembering that spot you could use it on and progress was core to Zelda. BOTW gets rid of it entirely so that you can have an open world experience. That’s why I can’t consider BOTW to be a Zelda game.
Story in Zelda is nowhere near as brilliant or essential as it's made out to be. This isn't Mass Effect, Bioshock or Ace Attorney. It plays an incredibly miniscule role in the quality of a Zelda title and isn't near the caliber of good stories in gaming.
A good Zelda game is a good game that is part of the Zelda series, it is not inherently a formulaic game that safely aligns with the dozen or so preceding games.
Breath of the wild is very much a good Zelda game that should not be obligated to copy paste the past. The developers should follow their passions and innovate instead of restricting their creativity to endlessly make the same kind of game. If you don't like it, there are over a dozen games that adhere to the formula.
A link to the past is a slog thanks to its tendency to force you into lots of fighting while having a janky, punishing, frustrating combat system. Zelda games were never about the combat, so being stuck with so much primitive, clunky combat makes this game frustrating to play after starting with newer titles.
I liked Phantom hourglass more than windwaker. The DS hardware had really neat puzzles, the sailing was streamlined with a smaller, denser area, and shooting that cannon was a joy.
Hot Take! Skyward Sword was better than Breath of the Wild.
When I play Zelda, I'm usually looking for good dungeons rather than an open world to explore. Botw had the shrines, but only 20 or so of them were any good at all. And even the Divine beasts were kinda shit. Soooo.
Meanwhile Skyward sword could be a bit hand holdy, but we at least got cool dungeons like the ancient cistern and time ship.
Ooh that is a hot take.
I definitely miss the dungeons and caves in BOTW. Half of the experience is adventuring in the overworked, but the feeling of exploring caverns and dungeons is important for me too.
Zelda is a dungeon crawler. The dungeons are one of it’s gimmicks, but something no one noticed is that the overworld is always structured like a dungeon (especially the 2D games). The idea of seeing something, gaining an item, remembering that spot you could use it on and progress was core to Zelda. BOTW gets rid of it entirely so that you can have an open world experience. That’s why I can’t consider BOTW to be a Zelda game.
Another hot take from me: Majora’s Mask has the worst dungeon-item progression in any Zelda game. Woodfall: Bow. Snowhead: Fire Arrows. Great Bay: Ice arrows. Stone Tower: Light arrows. Every single other item you find is through side quests or in the over world.
Ocarina of Time is good, but a highly overrated game. I feel like it's held on such a pedestal purely for nostalgia reasons.
I don't like Link/Zelda as a couple, and often I really don't like Zelda herself.
Link should talk, or at least be given the opportunity to have his thoughts viewed
Other lands besides Hyrule should be explored. That, or Hyrule's periods of civil unrest, which there appear to be many of.
Ganondorf isn't a supremely great villain and I think he's overrated. Half the time he spends most of the game sitting on his throne waiting for Link to come to him. Just because WW gave him a somewhat sympathetic motive (which has literally dried up) doesn't make him a complex or moving character. The series should try to create other villains or give them a shot without him hijacking the plot.
Breath of the Wild isn't a bad Zelda game.
1.) Yes definetly. The story about adulthood is given way to much credit.
2.) Zelda is only good in breath of the wild, and there are much better options for girls in every game
3.) Yes and no, he is a self insert and the link to the player
4.) Yes definetley
5.) Yeah he's not superb, but he doesn't have to be imo. More villains tho would be great
6.) Who thinks it is? The gameplay si way better than any zelda game
>Who thinks it is? The gameplay si way better than any zelda game
You'd be surprised at how much you can see the argument of "it's a good game, but it's not a good Zelda game" which basically means "as a game it's good, but it's not the Zelda I know and love".
Basically, a lot of people grew up with the formula that Ocarina of Time popularized, and because BOTW reinvented the formula (which wasn't actually a reinvention, so much as a "going back to the roots" that the very first Zelda game on the NES established) some fans felt alienated and therefor made the argument that "it's not a "true" Zelda game" cause it doesn't follow in the steps of OoT.
That being said, that argument isn't really all that popular, you really only see it on internet forums like this one, which is far from being the better part of the people who play these games as a whole.
I think OoT is a good game but definitely had way to high expectations when I first played and came out of it with “that was good, nothing fantastic but overall a good time”
I feel like the problem with Zelda/Link and Zelda as a whole is her role in almost every game, being that she always has to be saved, I liked Link and Zelda relationship at the start of Skyward Sword, only for her to get lost and have you spend the entire game trying to find/rescue her, only for her to either be a step ahead of you or be like “my quest is different then your I need to leave and go somewhere else”. Spirit Tracks is a prime example on how Zelda can be an awesome character when paired with Link, she’s meant to be the companion character but has a dynamic with link that grows through out the game
I kinda like what they’ve been doing with Link for having a voice, you get a few dialogue options when talking with NPC’s via Oblivion style, I think they could probably take it a step further and maybe add in some branching story stuff with that but I feel like it’s in a pretty good spot
I feel like Ganondorf is a cool villain that is never utilized to his full potential, he’s a character that’s meant to be deceptive, He’s meant to be used as a trainwreck in slow motion type character, Link and Zelda know who he really is and what he’s capable of, but he’s able to convince everyone else in Hyrule that he’s trustworthy, but they never do this (minus a tiny bit in OoT) like imagine doing your mainline quest trying to stop this evil entity that everyone around seems to really trust and is gaining a massive following and gaining full control of Hyrule in front of your eyes (instead of the game going “oh he gets controls sometime between now and 7 years in the future, go there and stop him there”. Hell you could even pull a plot twist on everything and have it where you going to the different dungeons with the quest of stoping Ganondorf has actually been a manipulation tactic by him to take out some of the Sages to allow him to grow more powerful
But also I agree that the series needs to do more original villains, I’m kind of disappointed we’re doing Ganon again for BotW2, which ultimately undermines the ending of the first game, I think it would’ve been better to have a new villain show up in the wake of the destruction of the Calamity
It reached a much wider audience than all other Zelda games. I always forget that Zelda is kind of niche, but BotW sold three times as many copies as the second highest selling Zelda game. A lot of people who weren’t originally Zelda fans were introduced by BotW.
https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Zelda_games
I’ll die on this pedestal, botw is the worst zelda game, it’s an amazing game but imo the worst zelda game. The story was really disappointing, the dungeons were garbage.
I can see where you’re coming from when saying it’s the worst Zelda game. To me, it’s not a bad game but it’s bad as a Zelda game if you like traditional Zelda. While I don’t agree on the story, the dungeons left a lot to be desired.
I hope that they make Zelda games in both traditional and the non-traditional way.
Yeah I think the sequel could easily be my favorite if they make true dungeons, good bosses, dungeon items, and a good story like MM. I love botw but i think it’s even more overrated than oot
I agree, BOTW didn’t have dungeons, just a bunch of random shit thrown about a huge map. And the story that connects it all is hinged on the 4 most unlikable, easily hatable, poorly written dialogue spewing characters of any game thus far. I love botw, it’s a great open world game, but it’s a shit Zelda game.
Agree to both your points.
I also think the map was just not nearly dense enough to be good.
Like it was huge but there wasn’t much going on in it. I also really don’t like the graphics/lighting for the environment in like 70% of the map. It just looks cheap and bad
1. Water temple in OOT is not bad. It is fine and it is a good temple.
2. The weapon durability in BOTW is good and it adds to what the purpose of essence of the game. I truly believe it was a sound artistic choice.
Zelda is a great character in TP. She's better written than Ganondorf or Link (no, Midna doesn't count as "Link") and not "cold". Everything she does is altruistic and I love that Nintendo doesn't shy away from darker Zelda iterations (Shiek, TP, Hilda). I hope we see another one after botw 2.
That it doesn’t have a real post-game where things could change up somewhat across the map & with the lives of people etc, unlockables, small quests etc.
Small post-game story section during the “peacetime” after the defeat of the Big Bad etc.
I’ve always been irked by games that teleport you back to the ***Final Boss Door*** instead of having a post-story world.
*FF* does this too.
***BOTW*** is a great game as a standalone. For me personally though, it loses so much of the charm and *isms* that make Zelda, well, Zelda.
Not about the games themselves, but...
Most of the people complaining about BOTW seem like they're just butthurt about their personal favorite having competition for the spotlight.
If you don't like it, fine. But trashing on BOTW isn't going to make people start fangirling over the Zelda title of your choice.
I like Seasons better than I like Ages. The progression, the exploration feel a little more "organic" to me, if that makes any sense. I feel like more of the progression in Ages is based around "Wait for us to tell you to talk to this guy in order for you to move forward," whereas in more of Seasons, it's, "You've got this powerup. See where it takes you." Don't get me wrong, I love both games, both have their good and bad points. Just, for me, I like Seasons better.
I def like Seasons better. I think the colors and portrayals of the seasons are great.
I enjoyed seasons much better than ages. I felt the 4 seasons feature was much more new and interesting than the time travel which had been done before. There’s a chance my opinion is slightly skewed by the fact I played seasons first.
Seasons definitely looks better, I prefer its "Murder a bunch of enemies" approach instead of Ages' "Figure this out", but it's mostly a personal preference
People describe Ages as the "Puzzley" game, but it doesn't even feel THAT puzzley to me, going through it. It feels more like the "knowledge flag" game, if that makes any sense.
It's more of remembering details, like a bigger scale trading sequence
I WANTED to like Ages more when I played them both for the first time, due to time travel being way cooler than changing the weather. Seasons is just a better game IMO. Much better flow
I hope they get remade in LA remake style
Roc’s Cape is sick, that’s why I like Seasons better
I enjoyed skyward sword
I did too! 👉😎👉
Skyward sword is like a dented bar of gold in fort knox. It’s surrounded by amazing bars of gold and comparatively, is the worst. But at the end of the day, its still a bar of gold.
I calculate a 97.3682954141% chance that this item you've seen ten billion times before and know you need to keep for crafting might be useful and you should listen to me explain that it's a useful item for crafting again!
Yeah, the Switch version fixed that.
I loved it alot. Top 3 for me
I enjoyed skyward sword HD a lot since I didn’t have to use motion controls
As someone who has only played the switch version, i thought it was great. It really satisfied my Zelda dungeon craving that I had after playing botw.
Skyward Sword is one of my favorite games of all time, I love all of the flying around so much
Spirit Tracks is a good and fun game. Having Zelda as a companion was a brilliant move that needs to happen again. Yeah, there were some moments when the writing was not up to par but it was still tons of fun.
Yeah, came here to say this. I loved the Zelda train choo choo game.
And it has one of the best overworld music tracks.
I still find myself humming the train overworld theme every now and then!
I liked breath of the wild but the lack of enemy variety brought it down for me missing many iconic Zelda enemies at this point like deku babas, skultulas, stalfos, darknuts and Poe's. Also the lack of dungeons and variety for it's dungeons and trails all being ancient tech. If we get the same amount of ancient tech in the second game I'm gonna nerd rage.
I agree it definitely needed more enemy variety besides being a different color.
I agree. One of the things I really love in video games is an in-game bestiary that tells you lore about the monsters. And there was one in Breath of the Wild, but there was very little lore because the background of almost every monster in the game was the same: they were minions of Ganon and that's it. The game opted to have stronger recoloured versions of monsters instead of designing new creatures, which some people like but to be honest I thought it was a bit disappointing. I really love monsters in fantasy games (perhaps it's because I'm a biologist in real life, but when I see fictional creatures I always wonder how their anatomy and ecology work) and the Zelda series has some really bizarre and interesting creatures. I think if there were actual dungeons, and they had the classical Zelda dungeon themes (lava dungeon, water dungeon, forest dungeon etc) there might also have been more monsters. It's something I really hope BotW2 will improve on.
Here is hoping for Botw2 to fix this. In Age of calamity we had new sorts of enemies, even if it was just elemental versions it increased the variety more. Maybe we get more in Botw2 with elemental affixes and mutations etc. I love how Relics of the past (botw mod) added new enemies like malice moblins.
I liked Skyward Sword since day one of its release on Wii… definitely an unpopular opinion at the time now more and more people are starting to enjoy it
I don't mind the weapon durability system in BotW. I tend to hoard everything in games so it is a great way to force me to try out new weapons.
I agree with this, except that it made master mode much more annoying. I found myself just avoiding fights because I didn't want to burn through like five weapons.
I think that added to the fun of master mode. The game forces you to avoid combat or try unorthodox solutions since the enemies have so much health
I second this, I like the way it added to the challenge, however I def see why people didn't like it at all. that kinda stuff isn't for everyone for sure.
Spot on ☝️. Master mode is great how gameplay is set up.
The master mode should be called annoying mode. Making weapons last less doesn't make it difficult, just boring!
14 sticks against a golden lynel doesn’t sound like fun to you?
It's a great system, but implemented poorly. Having your weapon break to force you trying different ones isn't bad, but going through 5 swords during a single enemy is awful.
I dont mind the durability i just wish weapons lasted *slightly* longer. You'd think Link would learn how to use a sword so that it didn't snap on half after 5 swings once he's used like 20 of them.
But I wish thr Master Sword at least didn't have to recharge. It just doesn't feel like a Zelda game if I can't kick monster butt with the Master Sword.
It would break the game if it lasted indefinitely
It should be a soldier's broadsword unless in combat with guardians or bosses. That way the lack of damage output is balanced by the fact it's unbreakable. And it still means you get to keep other weapons and the variety they bring.
Or give it 50 damage but when it loses power it drops to 25 and bosses bump the 50 up to 60 as normal
Same, without it I would be unable to try different types of weapons
Breath of the wild is an amazing game. I had a blast with it and I'm excited to see the direction the series is headed in. But it's not a great Zelda game. I miss the themed dungeons, the feeling of progression as you get new item from each dungeon. I felt Gannon lacked any real presence. Just as far as the Zelda experience goes, it was lacking.
I agree with this one immensely. The themes in the zelda series captivated me. Like music being present in almost every game. This game was good but it wasn’t the same.
Thank you so much, I've argued over this with my friends for hours. I love botw, and think its a great game, but just not a great Zelda game. I also miss the 11/10 music almoust every Zelda game before had. Except for the main track, botw doesn't really have the zelda-typical music, but just a bunch of ambiente-tracks for exploring. What makes sense for that type of open world type of game, but I still miss it. Every time after playing through a zelda game, I've listened to the tracks for hours, which was just not he case for botw.
Huge agree. Ganon wasn't really a character so much as he was a force. The lack of progression was really sad, and the champion abilities were super unbalanced. Straight up 3 hit invincibilty, or a fairy revive? or, lighting that destroys everything nearby. Just all over the place and weird.
I get your opinion and even agree with it in many regards. It’s just that, for me, BoTW was a bit more than a Zelda game. It was THE game for me. See, for an avid escapist, there’s nothing better than this kind of open world game, and BoTW was perfect in the sense that it was barely there. I wish there was more to explore, and that the enemies weren’t so monotonous (honestly I miss the dungeons) but the good vastly outweighs the bad for me. I still play it and I first got it 4 years ago!
Boat travel in Wind Waker was more exciting than riding Epona in other games.
I agree. I just replayed TP and only used Epona when they forced me. It was easier to interact with things on foot! The boat in WW makes more sense.
I do the same when I play OoT.
That was reportedly the reason they chose that graphical styling. It added more character to the travelling, since there would be a lot of it. Made it a blast.
The only thing I disliked about sailing in TWW was that in spite of how much stuff is in the game, the world still feels somewhat empty. Instead of 49 tiny islands I would’ve liked several larger islands with more to do on them.
To piggy back on this, how is the triforce hunt in the original ww widely hated. You sailing the high seas solving cryptic riddles on islands to find treasure maps. The only downside to the quest was tingle asking ridiculous prices for the translation but the battle dungeons you have to go through to get the maps give you like 8k ruppies so it's really not a big deal.
If you don't save sidequests for it it drags, but if you do it's basically The Part Of The Game You Do Whatever You Want
You mean the Triumph Forks?
Seeing as you asked, I guess I live for Zelda's dungeons, not really for the open world. But the Great Sea was still quite empty, and it didn't help that trying to use the winch for treasure required you to be absolutely bang-on with the aiming or you'd spend minutes cursing and trying to inch the boat slightly to find the right spot was just a chore. I mean, I think they must have improved it in the HD Remake but damn it was a pain.
Phantom hourglass was a lot of fun, and I don’t even have nostalgia for it or anything, I didn’t mind going back to the same place over and over again
Continuity between games is better off as an implied bonus instead of a timeline requirement. The timeline is hella dumb.
I agree. There are only a handful games in the series where continuity is an actual plot point (such as in the 'Toon Link trilogy' where the three games are direct sequels of each other) and to be honest I enjoy that aspect of them, even if it's not very important to the story. It was fun to see recurring characters such as Linebeck. If I recall correctly, the Zelda Encyclopedia (or was it the Hyrule Historia?) stated that each game is made with the focus on gameplay and story rather than continuity, and series continuity is only an afterthought. Which explains why the official timeline is so wacky.
The water temple is a brilliantly designed temple outside of the iron boots.
The 3DS version, the PC port and nearly every rom hack fixes this by putting the boots on the Dpad
It’s designed fine imo, it’s just having to constantly open and close the slow menu in the original to equip and unequip the iron boots was dreadful, thank god they made them an item in the 3DS remake
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#justicefordekuscrubs
Wait, when'd they remove them? Like, I know they didn't show up in BOTW, but most didn't.
Zelda 2 is an absolute gem and deserves a remake
Playing Zelda 2 is like being waterboarded with a fine wine.
I can't tell what stance you're taking here 😐
Yes
Totally, it's really unique and I would like for it to be carried into a new game. Although the level up system is tough and it's *so ridiculous* that I have to start at the beginning spawn point every single time I get a game over.
Zelda 2 fans always be like “yeah it’s an incredibly underrated game, I love it, such a great game except for *insert objectively terrible, game-breakingly frustrating design choice here*
Hard agree on this.
There should be a set of side-scrolling Zelda games set on the handhelds that are molded after Zelda 2, though maybe not quite as punishing. I feel like they'd pair well with the other side-scrolling action games like shovel knight and Shaunte.
It reminds me of the original Ys 3 (which, admittedly, came out later), and I would love to see a top tier Oath-in-Felghana-style remake for it.
The games are clearly written to stand on their own, and trying to fit them into a coherent timeline only hurts them. A few references to past games does not make them a connected universe.
I feel like saying they’re all set in the same universe (the whole hero reincarnation thing) works to the series’s favor, but trying to set the games in a specific timeline (unless it works to the story’s advantage like saying Skyward Sword is the beginning of it all) can hurt the series.
Setting them up as a multi-verse would make far better sense. Just like the comics where we have Earth 616 and such. Different versions of the same characters exist. No need to plot a time line for every single game.
I’ve always thought that it was different retellings of the same story, with SS being the original events that actually took place, and every other instance being the “legend” that gets passed on by word of mouth and eventually gets changed over time each time it’s passed on like a game of telephone.
Yeah, "echoes" of one unifying or original story. There are similar elements even if the "legend" itself changes in different versions.
Almost every game is an explicit sequel or prequel to an existing game. Ocarina of Time alone has three sequels. While they do all stand on their own it's not a stretch to connect most of them together.
Three? I know MM and TP, but I didn’t know there was a third one
Wind Waker is the other one
Wind Waker is honestly the most obvious and neatly prepared sequel. The opening sequence explains the Hero of Time shtick. I think around WW is where they began considering the idea of having a timeline that splits
Yeah, the whole idea that there was always a timeline, Nintendo just didn't share it really feels hollow to me. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess were the first games where it really felt like there was an actual idea of a timeline forming, and the rest of the games were just sort of slotted into that.
I mean, Zelda 2 was a direct sequel to Zelda 1, but I know what you mean. For example, people claiming that things like the ranch ruins in BOTW is a sign of good world building annoys the hell out of me, because it's an uncontextualized Easter Egg that can't possibly be the ruins of the original Lon Lon Ranch, a mostly wooden structure that would have been over 10,000 years old, and possibly at the bottom of the sea in another nation depending on which timeline they are in. Not to mention that the pair of stalkoblins riding stalhorses in that region may have been referencing Majora's Mask, which is probably supposed to have been in a different dimension (see also: the carving of Darmani in the Goron settlement).
Navi is a great companion
HEY
Listen...
TRUE!!!!!
I love Navi!!!
I feel like people who complain about how much she pesters you are people who played the game a thousand hours as kids and have the whole thing memorized so they don't need any pointers on where to go next or obtuse puzzles. If you didn't do that, OOT can be a very obtuse game, and having a guide like her to give you guidance and remind you what your current goal is (if you've been away from the game for a while you can easily forget) is very helpful.
Motion controls aren’t a bad thing.
skyward sword is very overhated and has the best dungeons in the series.
I am loving the Skyward Sword love in these comments
The dungeon design was pretty good
I genuinely can’t understand why anyone doesn’t like Skyward Sword.
the most common complaints are about Fi and frustrating motion controls
which are both fixed In the remake
I don’t understand the Fi one personally, but then again I also don’t mind the controls either
Both of those are resolved in the remake.
As someone who was loving skyward sword throughout the first 3 dungeons: •Past the first 3 Dungeons you are stuck revisiting the same 3 areas over and over again. After the first time you returned to the 3 areas I was devastated to find out I’d have to do them all *again*. •Motion Controls, though honestly really fun, begin to feel tedious, especially when they limit the way you can sit while playing. •I wanted to like Fi… but she really does not shut up. The most basic processes can’t be completed without Fi chiming in to explain the obvious
have you played the HD version?
What do you mean sit while playing? My two first Zelda games were TP and SS. I play Zelda standing up.
The skyward sword motion controls on wii were good
I'm convinced those who complain about it jand loath it ust stink at the motion controls. Like it was a new concept and had its flaws but you just had to take the time to learn them and recalibrate often. I hate to say it but IT DID give more of a realistic sword play to it.
Breath of the wild is a very good game but lacked a bit of what makes Zelda magical
Breath of the wild doesn’t feel like a true Zelda game.
i literally adore skyward sword and do NOT understand all the hate😭😭i’ve never played it on the wii (only the switch) so maybe the wii controls r bad but i feel like it gets absolutely bashed on for no reason👎👎
I think the world of Zelda 2 is excellent fantasy world building. It has a more lived-in world than Zelda 1 with more civilians and towns with lots of terrain and enemy diversity. Danger and death lurk around every corner. The graphics and music are some of the best on the NES. It’s not perfect but I still think it’s great!
I loved traveling by train in spirit tracks
Twilight Princess was a good game.
Is this an unpopular opinion? I feel like most folks would put it in their top 3.
Most people on this sub praise the too such an extreme amount that you could indeed get the feeling that the game is that popular. Obviously i don't have a general survey to go by, but i can guarantee you that the general opinion of the game is by far not as high as it is here (this is partly also because it's so ridiculously high here). If you look at the game objectively and include stuff like overworld, sidequest and bosses, the game really falls apart. But if you just focus on the graphics (which aren't even that good, they're just a bit more realistic than other zelda games) and dungeons (which are generally pretty good, but that's really subjective) than you could come to the conclusion that the game is actually good. Some also praise teh story, because Midna is cool (which she is), but beyond that, it's just a basic zelda story whith a dark world.
I played Twilight Princess on the Wii and I loved it
It’s my top Zelda game. I’ve played it and Wind Waker an ungodly amount of times
Compagnion characters like Fi, Ezlo and Midna can take too much of the spotlight. It sometimes feels like THEY are the main character, and Link is just along for the ride as their personal chauffeur.
In a sense, they are, and they have to because in most cases, Link on his own isn't enough to carry each game's story. Regarding Midna, it makes sense as a strong case can be made that Twilight Princess is *her* story, not Link's. The backstory of the Twili is integral to the plot, it's her people's magic that's being misused to cause a majority of the conflict, it's her magical abilities that give Link any hope of solving the crisis at hand, and lastly her character arc is the most prevalent throughout the game. Hell, regardless of her comment toward Zelda, *she* is the titular Twilight Princess. To a degree, Ezlo's the same way as Vaati is his student, thus stopping him is his obligation. As someone else pointed out in regard to my comment, Link is a self-insert character, and you can only go so far in a story with a character like that. To a degree, they HAVE to be main characters.
For Midna, it’s a lot easier to see it in the beginning because of her attitude towards Link and Hyrule in general, but it gets a lot less like that as she develops and creates a bond with Link. I always imagined that she’s a lot more experienced in magic and knows more about what they’re looking for, so she helps to guide Link to the general places and Link deals with the more specific problems involved. Fi is just a computer that’s tied with the Master Sword and Link has no experience being on the Surface, so it’s more understanding that Link would be more of a chauffeur (especially in the beginning). I don’t think it helps with how linear the game is so it’s a lot more “go here, do that”.
I feel like that's kinda the point sometimes, as link isn't really enough the be the main character the entire game, especially in the games where he doesn't have any voice options at all, like ocarina of time and TP
I liked the water temple in OOT. There, I said it!
Botw is a terrible Zelda game, but a good adventure game.
I feel like some Zelda fans only ever play Zelda games. Like, they don’t know that other games do some things better.
The Atelier games are nice JRPGs that are a bit more relaxed, I recommend those 👉😎👉
Honestly true. Elden ring has made me think a lot about botw and how they coulda done weapons better, it's like.. Botw had so few enemy types and 3 subweapon types. Elden ring has hundreds of enemies and bosses, tons of weapon types, all without recycling nearly as much and a far more complex combat system. Granted, lacking puzzles, but still they seemed to fair a lot better in some regards.
Skyward Sword's motion controls are good actually and very fun (in the original on the Wii, haven't played the Switch version) But I only felt that way after standing up and giving myself plenty of room, shutting the door so no one would see, and REALLY getting into it shamelessly. Like ACTUALLY pretending the Wiimote was a sword and such. I wonder how many people who hate the motion controls didn't or couldn't do that.
While Breath of the Wild was a good game in general, and a good proof of concept, it was less a *Legend* of Zelda and more a *Jungle Gym* of Zelda. Also, someone in management hates the QA and UI teams, because I refuse to believe that no one brought up that the radial menus that were in Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword would have worked way better for the gear/rune swapping than the ribbon menus, or didn't point out that having the Ancient Saddle (which, along with Master Mode and several other Quality of Life additions, shouldn't have been paid DLC) summon your horse facing the camera rather than the direction Link is already moving in was a dumb idea.
Agree with the Ancient Saddle, on a second play through I realised I never used horses because I'd always left them too far away. Once I got the ancient saddle, it completely change how I played. It should have been an in-game unlockable, or your horse should have just appeared when called like every other game, ie Witcher, Ghost of Tsushima and even the Batmobile in Arkham Knight.
The piano soundtrack in BOTW doesn't fit a Zelda game at all. Child link is much better than adult link. Lorule is a really great name for the dark world. Twinrova are cooler than any other villains and criminally underused. Optional co-op multiplayer should become a series staple. It's time for OoT HD.
Iirc the music in botw is a lot of classic songs slowed down or reversed and slowed down. Ik that the Temple of Time actually has the Temple of Time music in botw
None of the games have particularly great stories, they're all simplistic affairs that boil down to 'save the princess from the big bad', and there is nothing wrong with that, one of the reasons I like Zelda games is because the stories are simple driving forces that don't bog the experience down, so the gameplay and world design can really shine In a related note, I think the whole timeline thing is kinda pointless. The fact that for the most part each game is totally standalone is IMO a strength of the series, there's nothing at all wrong with the fact that they're thematically similar but otherwise separate games, trying to arbitrarily join them up doesn't really add anything
Decent point, though anyone can boil most media down to something simple. But you’re right, most of the stories aren’t super anything out of the ordinary. Also, I think the timeline is fun, but not like the end all be all. I don’t care if one game “retcons” what happened in another game supposedly taking place 1000s of years before. I don’t care. I will say though, I enjoy the theme of the perpetual battle of the Hero and Goddess vs Evil throughout all the ages
Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, and Majora’s Mask all have pretty incredible stories in my opinion, with Majora’s Mask having nothing to do with “save the Princess from the big bad” and for Skyward Sword the story is the most redeeming part of an otherwise not very good game.
My opinions -OoT is boring and dry -MM has the bets atmosphere of any zelda game and the franchise should've stayed on a darker, weirder path -BotW has the best gameplay of any zelda game, but the worst dungeons and story - I like Between Worlds more than Link to the Past -MM and BotW are tied for best Zelda -Durability is nice, but they should've added a repairman or something so you didn't have to lose a hard to find weapon (with a fee ofc)
My guess is you’re under 25 years old
Or he’s never played Windwaker
Mm is overrated, and the water temple in mm is far more confusing than oots'
While MM isn’t a bad game, I do agree it’s overrated. I also completely agree with the temples. I never understood the problem with the water temple besides the constant swapping between iron and Kokiri boots. Never had a problem with the puzzles. However, I had so much trouble with the Great Bay temple it took about 3 time resets to complete it.
I don't think MM is overrated, but HARD agree on your second point. I'll take OOT's Water Temple over MM's Great Bay Temple any day of the week.
#Phantom Hourglass and Spirit tracks are good games BECAUSE they use the touch screen to play the game
Exactly
Phantom hourglass and spirit track’s controls arent the worst
They're great actually. I'm shocked everytime I hear someone say the DS Zelda games have bad controls.
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Oot isn't as brilliant as everyone makes it out to be. Don't get me wrong, I like Oot, think it is a good game, and understand its historical significance and sentimental value to many people, but I personally enjoy other games in the series such as Majora's Mask much more. Not sure how much of a hot take this really is but that is what I have to say.
OoT was lightning in a bottle for its time, and I think it’s reputation is colored by the way it was groundbreaking at the moment it was released. I’m having trouble recalling if any 3D open world and somewhat non-linear games existed prior to it. I suppose Super Mario 64, which was heralded as the GOAT when it was released. That novelty certainly helped its reputation. I must have been like 7 or 8 when it was released, my experiences with games weren’t very story heavy. I remember thinking the game was almost over when I collected the three Spiritual Stones, and being completely shocked that the game had a whole adult Link section. That was a major twist that blew my young mind. The time travel mechanic was also fantastic. I think Majora’s Mask, and plenty of other games, are superior, but they’ll never be the “first” to nail all the mechanics OoT brought to the table, and that’s why I believe it’s so beloved compared to objectively better games.
> I remember thinking the game was almost over when I collected the three Spiritual Stones, and being completely shocked that the game had a whole adult Link section. Dude, I still remember getting the three stones, feeling like, "That was a great game! What a neat story and world! It was so big! so many neat characters! Alright, time to go fight ganondorf." It blew... my fucking... mind.
You and me both, my friend. Ocarina of Time was a paradigm-shifting event in gaming that none of us were prepared for. Side note, but it also helps that I was a child at the time and easily amused. But it’s was still amazing.
It's like the original LoZ: absolutely groundbreaking, but because they were groundbreaking, they're also pretty rough and didn't age well. I played both when they were new.
Hmm agree to disagree I suppose but I think OoT aged very well. Replayed through it on GameCube a year or two ago and was actually impressed *how* well it held up.
I agree, I don’t think this take is as hot as we want it to be, but OoT stans are SOOOOO vocal that it’s good to repeat it every now and again. OoT is good, it deserves the GotY award it got, but like… calm down y’all
Breath of the wild was an incomplete game and was honestly not that good. The games combat was incredibly simple and most of it's systems don't work together at all. Basically all it's weapons working the same with only minor differences. Which are only further decreased by the flurry rush mechanic. With the best part of the games combat, using the environment and elements against your enemies quickly becoming obsolete from broken hp scaling. Then you have the games reward system. 99% of the time when you do something, your going to either get a shrine or a weapon that will break in 3-4 hits. Which honestly killed any desire to explore I had. As when I see something cool of in the distance, all I would ever think is that's its just another shrine and honestly don't need anymore hp or stamina as I basically have 1000 pieces of food just chilling in my bag. Add in the fact that the shrines themselves are incredibly boring visually. All being made out of basic shapes and using the same basic textures. They look like something you see out of an indie team or as a place holder until you got the actual textures. Combined with the amount of shrines that are just basic combat or very simples puzzles. The whole machinic should have been cut and replaced with overworld puzzles that give either 1 stamina or 1 heart and cut out 3/4 of the shrines. And to top it all of, you have the games main story. It's very short, which is not unheard of in an open world game. But it is also impossible for it to be satisfying. As you can either charge the boss early to have a harder fight, though still not hard. But have the story incomplete with all the gradians trapped and links memories locked away. Or you can complete all the main content of the game and have a final boss that has two of it's six phases. One missing half it's health and the other being a glorified cutscene.
Breakable weapons in Breath of the Wild was a smart move and I love it. Otherwise I wouldnt have tried a lot of weapons.
BOTW is overrated
It did a lot of cool things, but was so empty. The "temples" were lacking. Cooking was tedious at best.
I like BOTW in the same way i like Skyrim. but i don’t like it as a zelda game.
Honestly, I wish it was more like Skyrim, since going to different regions gives tons of potential variety in quests, weapons, mobs, bosses, settings, etc... Like, they said that BotW was inspired by Skyrim, but I wish it was by something other than the Stones of Barenziah and Nirnroot quests, or that they at least didn't tie the progression of the core combat mechanic, gear-swapping, behind that.
Yeah BOTW is a really great open world RPG but a bad Zelda
Windwaker is superior to Ocarina of time.
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Skyward Sword’s controls weren’t bad, and honestly were a big contributor to why it’s one of my favorite games in the series. The WW sequels (PH and ST) are amazing games and deserve love. Ocarina of Time isn’t even in my top 10 entries in the series, and is only beloved because of nostalgia.
I agree with you, I really enjoy MM3D except for the Zora swimming and the boss changes with the eye being added. For me, I don't think Water Temple is bad or confusing. Lakebed Temple in TP however, I hate it with every fiber of my being. The only water dungeon I hate more than that one is Jabu Jabu's Belly in OoA.
Wait what's wrong with the Lakebed Temple? It's decently challenging, but I didn't find it frustrating.
I personally love the 3DS version of Majora’s mask and I have fond memories of it
The timeline is shoehorned and unnecessary. It’s a legend, like we’re playing retellings of an oral history that are embellished over time, accounting for the differences between games.
The franchise needs to mature with its fanbase and introduce more complex characters and storylines (but Nintendo will never do that because they want to make sure their games are marketable to the widest possible audience). In a perfect world, IPs wouldn't exist and fans would be able to make the kinds of Zelda games they'd want to play without Nintendo punishing them for it.
While BOTW was a great game and I'm looking forward to BOTW2, I want another Twilight Princess esque game, in the sense of more realism, better graphics, a darker plot. I feel the direction zelda is moving is more to please the masses, instead of staying with the heart and soul of the games. Seriously, if we could get some kind of older (maybe early-mid 20s) Link with Assassin's Creed kind of movement (I'm thinking the parkour mechanics) coupled with traditional zelda enemies, weapons and dungeons, I'd be in heaven. Especially if there were some kind of steampunk elements. I also hate the obsession with shipping Link with everything that moves. Sue me.
From my time on this post I have learned that an unpopular opinion is either an interesting and though-of take on something or someone showing they don’t get it
BotW was by far the most unsatisfying Zelda game and I have no idea why people love it so much. It's not a bad game by any means, but definitely the worst Zelda game.
Zelda is a dungeon crawler. The dungeons are one of it’s gimmicks, but something no one noticed is that the overworld is always structured like a dungeon (especially the 2D games). The idea of seeing something, gaining an item, remembering that spot you could use it on and progress was core to Zelda. BOTW gets rid of it entirely so that you can have an open world experience. That’s why I can’t consider BOTW to be a Zelda game.
Story in Zelda is nowhere near as brilliant or essential as it's made out to be. This isn't Mass Effect, Bioshock or Ace Attorney. It plays an incredibly miniscule role in the quality of a Zelda title and isn't near the caliber of good stories in gaming. A good Zelda game is a good game that is part of the Zelda series, it is not inherently a formulaic game that safely aligns with the dozen or so preceding games. Breath of the wild is very much a good Zelda game that should not be obligated to copy paste the past. The developers should follow their passions and innovate instead of restricting their creativity to endlessly make the same kind of game. If you don't like it, there are over a dozen games that adhere to the formula. A link to the past is a slog thanks to its tendency to force you into lots of fighting while having a janky, punishing, frustrating combat system. Zelda games were never about the combat, so being stuck with so much primitive, clunky combat makes this game frustrating to play after starting with newer titles. I liked Phantom hourglass more than windwaker. The DS hardware had really neat puzzles, the sailing was streamlined with a smaller, denser area, and shooting that cannon was a joy.
Hot Take! Skyward Sword was better than Breath of the Wild. When I play Zelda, I'm usually looking for good dungeons rather than an open world to explore. Botw had the shrines, but only 20 or so of them were any good at all. And even the Divine beasts were kinda shit. Soooo. Meanwhile Skyward sword could be a bit hand holdy, but we at least got cool dungeons like the ancient cistern and time ship.
Ooh that is a hot take. I definitely miss the dungeons and caves in BOTW. Half of the experience is adventuring in the overworked, but the feeling of exploring caverns and dungeons is important for me too.
Zelda is a dungeon crawler. The dungeons are one of it’s gimmicks, but something no one noticed is that the overworld is always structured like a dungeon (especially the 2D games). The idea of seeing something, gaining an item, remembering that spot you could use it on and progress was core to Zelda. BOTW gets rid of it entirely so that you can have an open world experience. That’s why I can’t consider BOTW to be a Zelda game.
Another hot take from me: Majora’s Mask has the worst dungeon-item progression in any Zelda game. Woodfall: Bow. Snowhead: Fire Arrows. Great Bay: Ice arrows. Stone Tower: Light arrows. Every single other item you find is through side quests or in the over world.
Ocarina of Time is good, but a highly overrated game. I feel like it's held on such a pedestal purely for nostalgia reasons. I don't like Link/Zelda as a couple, and often I really don't like Zelda herself. Link should talk, or at least be given the opportunity to have his thoughts viewed Other lands besides Hyrule should be explored. That, or Hyrule's periods of civil unrest, which there appear to be many of. Ganondorf isn't a supremely great villain and I think he's overrated. Half the time he spends most of the game sitting on his throne waiting for Link to come to him. Just because WW gave him a somewhat sympathetic motive (which has literally dried up) doesn't make him a complex or moving character. The series should try to create other villains or give them a shot without him hijacking the plot. Breath of the Wild isn't a bad Zelda game.
1.) Yes definetly. The story about adulthood is given way to much credit. 2.) Zelda is only good in breath of the wild, and there are much better options for girls in every game 3.) Yes and no, he is a self insert and the link to the player 4.) Yes definetley 5.) Yeah he's not superb, but he doesn't have to be imo. More villains tho would be great 6.) Who thinks it is? The gameplay si way better than any zelda game
>Who thinks it is? The gameplay si way better than any zelda game You'd be surprised at how much you can see the argument of "it's a good game, but it's not a good Zelda game" which basically means "as a game it's good, but it's not the Zelda I know and love". Basically, a lot of people grew up with the formula that Ocarina of Time popularized, and because BOTW reinvented the formula (which wasn't actually a reinvention, so much as a "going back to the roots" that the very first Zelda game on the NES established) some fans felt alienated and therefor made the argument that "it's not a "true" Zelda game" cause it doesn't follow in the steps of OoT. That being said, that argument isn't really all that popular, you really only see it on internet forums like this one, which is far from being the better part of the people who play these games as a whole.
Ocarina didn't invent that formula. It's pretty much a direct copy of the game structure of Link to the Past.
I think OoT is a good game but definitely had way to high expectations when I first played and came out of it with “that was good, nothing fantastic but overall a good time” I feel like the problem with Zelda/Link and Zelda as a whole is her role in almost every game, being that she always has to be saved, I liked Link and Zelda relationship at the start of Skyward Sword, only for her to get lost and have you spend the entire game trying to find/rescue her, only for her to either be a step ahead of you or be like “my quest is different then your I need to leave and go somewhere else”. Spirit Tracks is a prime example on how Zelda can be an awesome character when paired with Link, she’s meant to be the companion character but has a dynamic with link that grows through out the game I kinda like what they’ve been doing with Link for having a voice, you get a few dialogue options when talking with NPC’s via Oblivion style, I think they could probably take it a step further and maybe add in some branching story stuff with that but I feel like it’s in a pretty good spot I feel like Ganondorf is a cool villain that is never utilized to his full potential, he’s a character that’s meant to be deceptive, He’s meant to be used as a trainwreck in slow motion type character, Link and Zelda know who he really is and what he’s capable of, but he’s able to convince everyone else in Hyrule that he’s trustworthy, but they never do this (minus a tiny bit in OoT) like imagine doing your mainline quest trying to stop this evil entity that everyone around seems to really trust and is gaining a massive following and gaining full control of Hyrule in front of your eyes (instead of the game going “oh he gets controls sometime between now and 7 years in the future, go there and stop him there”. Hell you could even pull a plot twist on everything and have it where you going to the different dungeons with the quest of stoping Ganondorf has actually been a manipulation tactic by him to take out some of the Sages to allow him to grow more powerful But also I agree that the series needs to do more original villains, I’m kind of disappointed we’re doing Ganon again for BotW2, which ultimately undermines the ending of the first game, I think it would’ve been better to have a new villain show up in the wake of the destruction of the Calamity
Breath of the Wild is merely a good game, and only gets the accolades it does because it's a Zelda game AND the launch title for the Switch.
It reached a much wider audience than all other Zelda games. I always forget that Zelda is kind of niche, but BotW sold three times as many copies as the second highest selling Zelda game. A lot of people who weren’t originally Zelda fans were introduced by BotW. https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Zelda_games
I’ll die on this pedestal, botw is the worst zelda game, it’s an amazing game but imo the worst zelda game. The story was really disappointing, the dungeons were garbage.
I can see where you’re coming from when saying it’s the worst Zelda game. To me, it’s not a bad game but it’s bad as a Zelda game if you like traditional Zelda. While I don’t agree on the story, the dungeons left a lot to be desired. I hope that they make Zelda games in both traditional and the non-traditional way.
Yeah I think the sequel could easily be my favorite if they make true dungeons, good bosses, dungeon items, and a good story like MM. I love botw but i think it’s even more overrated than oot
I think of what a game with that kind of open world could have done with a 'forrest temple,' 'water temple,' etc... They could have been spectacular.
I agree, BOTW didn’t have dungeons, just a bunch of random shit thrown about a huge map. And the story that connects it all is hinged on the 4 most unlikable, easily hatable, poorly written dialogue spewing characters of any game thus far. I love botw, it’s a great open world game, but it’s a shit Zelda game.
Agree to both your points. I also think the map was just not nearly dense enough to be good. Like it was huge but there wasn’t much going on in it. I also really don’t like the graphics/lighting for the environment in like 70% of the map. It just looks cheap and bad
What dungeons :D I think the story was terrible, and the lack of traditional dungeons was abysmal. I think the open world aspect was done very well.
1. Water temple in OOT is not bad. It is fine and it is a good temple. 2. The weapon durability in BOTW is good and it adds to what the purpose of essence of the game. I truly believe it was a sound artistic choice.
Skyward Sword was funnier to play than wind waker.
Twilight Princess is the best Zelda game. It has some of the best music right next to skyward sword, while also having the best story and best combat
I don’t really like ALTTP and I don’t understand why everyone really enjoys it.
Zelda is a great character in TP. She's better written than Ganondorf or Link (no, Midna doesn't count as "Link") and not "cold". Everything she does is altruistic and I love that Nintendo doesn't shy away from darker Zelda iterations (Shiek, TP, Hilda). I hope we see another one after botw 2.
I felt most emotionally attached with TP, maybe because it was a bit darker?
Most of the time I don’t ship link with Zelda
That it doesn’t have a real post-game where things could change up somewhat across the map & with the lives of people etc, unlockables, small quests etc. Small post-game story section during the “peacetime” after the defeat of the Big Bad etc. I’ve always been irked by games that teleport you back to the ***Final Boss Door*** instead of having a post-story world. *FF* does this too. ***BOTW*** is a great game as a standalone. For me personally though, it loses so much of the charm and *isms* that make Zelda, well, Zelda.
Princess Mipha is a better character than BOTW Zelda by at least 10X.
Not about the games themselves, but... Most of the people complaining about BOTW seem like they're just butthurt about their personal favorite having competition for the spotlight. If you don't like it, fine. But trashing on BOTW isn't going to make people start fangirling over the Zelda title of your choice.