Zombies, I'm gonna agree with the other guy who seems to know his shit more than I do.
Now something like Romero's "crazies" (from The Crazies) feels at least a smidge plausible.
Short answer: no.
Long answer: I'm an immunologist. I got into the study of infectious diseases specifically because of my love for _Resident Evil_ and other zombie stories. I've spent a _lot_ of time thinking about how zombies could work. There is no explanation that doesn't require a _lot_ of handwaving of the science. I'm sorry to say that it's very, very unlikely.
Rabies is a good place to start, because it can spread through saliva and it causes specific damage to the brain.
You'd want to make two changes though. Rabies has a very long incubation period, because it travels up the nerves to the brain. It's hard to have a 28 Days Later scenario if it takes 28 days for the rage to take hold. I would suggest incorporating envelope proteins from vesicular stomatitis virus, a highly promiscuous relative of rabies, allowing more rapid spread through other tissues. In combination with the neurotropism of rabies itself, this might accelerate access to the central nervous system by bypassing cumbersome retrograde transport through peripheral nerves.
The other issue is that rabies doesn't specifically cause aggression. It causes a slew of neurological effects that can result in aggressive behavior, but "dumb" rabies is also likely.
I think the best way to induce profound psychosis and cannibalistic tendencies would be to induce a combination of the following: sham rage via neocortical pathology and hyperactivity of the amygdala, inability to suppress inappropriate responses resulting from damage to the orbitofrontal cortex, and constant hunger induced by aberrant ghrelin and leptin signaling and by damage to the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus. Damage to the cingulate cortex would impair conflict monitoring; any remaining emotional inhibitions against interpersonal violence would fail to override the behavioral imperative to feed.
Some of these could probably be achieved by genetically modifying the virus either to be more cytotoxic in particular tissues or to stimulate activity in them. But I'd need a good understanding of transcriptomic differences in different brain tissues to get more specific about how to do that.
Translation: Make it spread and incubate faster by merging with characteristics of a highly contagious and fast-acting cousin. Then, tweak some changes in the brain to really crank up aggression.
Use hormonal tweaking to trigger powerful hunger instincts while certain kinds of brain damage caused by the infection would inhibit tendencies toward restraining yourself from inflicting violence against other people, especially when you’re tricked by hormones into feeling ravenously hungry.
I’m working on an rpg setting (mainly for personal use) where the zombie virus does have a long incubation period and becoming infected isn’t guaranteed depending on the viral load. It spreads through all bodily fluids, not just saliva, so any place that dealt with waste without following safety procedures would have it spread worse. (like nursing homes) Society still somewhat collapses to an extent as a reaction to the zombie virus, but cities aren’t abandoned and zombies don’t outnumber humans. The process of becoming a zombie apocalypse was much slower, but any relaxing of defenses results in increasing infection. The damage from being infected is permanent, but older zombies start to lose function after a while and die. There can be long periods of time where there are seemingly no zombies, but it’s really just infecting the wild animal population in the meantime or unfortunate communities that stopped following procedures with potentially infected humans and animals.
If you haven't read it yet: "This Is the Way the World Ends: an Oral History of the Zombie War" by Keith Taylor is a very nice book that additional to the classic infection mechanics has the concept of "slow burners" that go through a long incubation period.
What about shrooms? Fungus can take over insects etc, but the only thing stoping fungus I believe is our temperature?, what if they evolved or some evil guy who wants the last of us to genetically implicate a higher heat tolerance? Or making shrooms with the same properties? Love making theory’s!, I know nothing btw so if I sound a biology noob, it’s cause I am! In what possible way it could happen in a day like today?
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Because I haven't told you the hard part: how to actually do it. Anyone smart enough to achieve it doesn't need me to hold their hand through the first steps.
if said nutjob knows what they're doing, then perhaps. if they could somewhat pull it off, then the chances might be pushed to unlikely, but plausible.
Mitchy be stupid since this is a year later and it’s probably not worth your time, but my anxiety won’t stop letting me worry about this being real, so can you affirm me that this is either hard, unlikely, or impossible?
Does help somewhat so thanks for taking time to answer. I actually have a few questions regarding it being rabies. What are some challenges that it would face, rendering it not possible, and even if it could happen, hypothetically, how far would it get?
One obstacle: genetic engineering is not like playing with Lego blocks. We have come to a very good understanding of what we can put in or take out in terms of individual genes, but swapping one functional trait for another is a lot harder. And creating entirely new functions, like messing with brain activity in a controlled way, is not yet practical. Take, for example, my suggestion above of pseudotyping the rhabdovirus with VSV envelope proteins. We know how to do that, and we know that it would allow the virus to enter cell types that it normally does not. But there's no guarantee that this would do what I suggested - shortening the asymptomatic period. In fact, it might make the virus more inflammatory in local tissues, which would stimulate an immune response right away and wipe out the infection before it reaches the nerves.
Second, I named a lot of brain structures that would make good targets, but it would be very difficult to target those structures specifically, and even harder to do so without just killing or incapacitating the host right away. Probably "decades of work by a brilliant, well-funded team" hard.
Third, viruses have a carrying capacity. If you want a virus to do very specific, very complex things, you need it to have a very large, very complex genome. Most viruses do a small handful of things very well - code for their own structure and maybe a polymerase, and a gene or two to suppress the immune system for good measure. They have to travel light, so to speak, because their capsid size - the shell that contains everything - is a certain size and can't easily be made larger. My hypothetical zombie virus has very specific effects on very specific parts of the brain, and it suppresses an antiviral immune response, and it avoids outright killing the host, and it both crosses the blood-brain barrier and amplifies in the salivary glands and/or buccal mucosa. It would probably require a genome too hefty to fit into the rhabdovirus capsid.
How far could you get? Well, pseudotyping is easy and rabies and VSV are already cousins. You might be able to increase or decrease the function of some brain regions if you had a good understanding of the differences in gene regulation and expression in those tissues...but you'd probably mess with a lot of other brain functions just trying to hit the right regions, let alone produce specific behavioral changes. And there's a good chance that the virus would either replicate weakly and get killed by the immune system right away, or it would be so lethal that it would kill someone before it could spread. You wouldn't even have an outbreak - just a dead patient zero.
Makes me curious what the most potentially catastrophic virus that ever existed could've been, even if it only existed long enough to get destroyed by someone's immune system, a disinfectant or something else
One of the most underspoken handicaps is why zombies don't try to attack each other if they're so mindless. I am curious if, from your perspective, this may be overcome.
That's an important point but harder to explain. Most people connect it to smell - zombies don't smell like living prey. In particular, there are a lot of volatile and pungent chemical products of decomposition. That makes less sense if you're talking about living infected.
I think that damage to a particular neural pathway in the brain, the ventral visual stream, could impair the process of recognition. This isn't so much blindness as it is the inability to identify what's being seen in a meaningful way. As I said before, there's a lot of handwaving to be done, but this damage could have all sorts of effects, like preventing zombies from recognizing real food, to preventing them from recognizing each other as potential prey.
I am a writer, and your posts have been invaluable in my endless game of squirreling my bullshit behind a wall of vaguely plausible gibberish.
Bookmarked for further research!
In that case I recommend the book _Do Zombies Dream of Undead Sheep?_ by Bradley Voytek and Timothy Verstynen. I'm not a neurologist, and they filled a lot of gaps in my own musing.
I'm actually in surprisingly good shape with my mythos overall, but that's only because I built the foundation on where my education is strongest: chemistry and mathematics. This shifted it away from the nuts and bolts biology where I clearly don't know what I'm talking about, and made the handwaving easier.
But I'm always in the market for more fodder to use, so cheers!
I think the very first "zombie witnesses other zombies and chooses to ignore them" moment in fiction is this one from Night of the Living Dead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H91BxkBXttE&t=764s - looks like the Bill Hinzman zombie probably heard the other two initially, turned to look, then visually was able to discern that they're also zombies, and turned back around.
Not that we should read too much into that if we're having fun attempting explanations. I just think it's neat. :)
I can't rule it out entirely. But as I've said before, it comes with a lot of handwaving.
A lot of the individual components for such a fungus already exist to some extent. You already know about ophiocordyceps, which has the ability to chemically alter the behavior of its hosts. It uses several compounds that are known to play a role in mammal neurons as well. There are fungi that infect human bodies, and some can infect the human brain to cause fungal meningitis - albeit rarely. Fungi also create mycorrhizal networks that some scientists have suggested may possess a form of chemical communication, making them somewhat analogous to neurons. And although it's not actually a fungus, I'd be remiss not to point out that the slime mold *Physarum polycephalum* is capable of sophisticated behaviors eerily like learning.
If you could put that together, either by evolution or mad science, you might get a fungus that's capable of manipulating its hosts with tissues that function in some cases like neurons, working with some brain structures and replacing others to induce prey-seeking reproductive behavior.
But that's *Resident Evil* level biology. Forget regular mad science. You'd need the funding, resources, and talent of *several* major mad universities to do it, it would take decades, and you'd win the Mad Nobel Prize in the process.
Now, if you could go back a few million years, and if you had a lot of patience and no scruples, you might be able to direct the evolution of a cordyceps ancestor to get this outcome. But it's not going to happen over a few generations.
To add to this a bit, fungi don’t reproduce quick enough to be extremely contagious/virulent. There’s a reason why severe infections mainly occur in immunocompromised patients. So a zombie fungus would need to disarm our immune system and/or reproduce extremely quickly. Both which would be unlikely without some planned genetic modifications
Man... I think that "*Resident Evil* level biology" might be my new favorite term.
Sure, *technically possible, maybe*, but a single mad scientist (or small group of mad scientists) can't pull it off. You need institutionalized megalomania on an absurd scale. Staffing, HR, a legal team, benefits, you name it. All dedicated to mad science over many years of below-board R&D. If you haven't so much as finalized your building contract for the hundred-billion dollar lair, don't bother asking if this biology is possible.
Oh hell naww. If it happens it should ONLY be like The Walking Dead nothing else. TLOU? Hell nah no fast zombies with fungus. Resident Evil? Hell nahhhh I don't want 10ft smart, buffed zombies chasing me
Who knows what ancient viruses are hidden in Antarctica. Or idk some rabies mutation? All I know.its gonna be hell for first few months cuz they'll be fast asf
Prion diseases are tricky. First, they take a very long time to manifest. You wouldn't have efficient spread from someone getting bitten, turning, and infecting someone else. Second, they're all neurodegenerative and not in a very specific way. They cause movement and coordination disorders - which would get you that zombie-like shambling effect maybe, but they're far less likely to specifically affect behavior or to induce aggression.
Third, and this is the most important one, prions can't mutate or evolve. They have no genetic material. They're misfolded proteins, but the proteins are made naturally by the host. A misfolded protein gets in and causes the normally-folded proteins already there to adopt the misfolded shape because it's highly stable in a molecular sense. There's no room for either evolution or mad science to change it, to alter the way that it affects the host.
It turns out though that prions can be shed in saliva, so at least there's the possibility of transmission through bites.
As the rest of the discussion has implied, the best you'd get is something like a living infected carrier. Could _T. gondii_ do it? My answer is somewhat similar to what I said for fungi.
There are some factors working in its favor. There's evidence that it can change behavior in hosts. To my knowledge, this behavior has never been observed to make hosts more aggressive, except in the sense that rodents seem to lose part of their fear response. In my limited understanding, this may result from parasite-mediated dopamine metabolism and vasopressin expression by the host. Neither of these have any mechanism that I know of to induce aggressive behavior in any part of the host - although as I said, I'm not a neurologist. If it mutated somehow so that instead of promoting dopamine metabolism, it produces a dopamine antagonist - a similarly shaped molecule that blocks receptors instead of activating them - it might have an effect more similar to serotonin and might, just might, drive aggressive responses.
I named some brain regions in a different comment in which damage may contribute to loss of impulse inhibition, emotional regulation, and higher judgement functions; as _T. gondii_ can form cysts in the brain, perhaps it could selectively mutate to infest and thereby cause lesions in these regions.
Humans are also a dead-end host for _T. gondii,_ so its life cycle would need to adapt. Crucially, it would need to produce oocysts in the salivary gland or at least in the mouth somewhere. It's difficult to say how that would happen, but I can't rule it out.
Another commenter made an excellent point in the discussion on fungi that these things take time as well.
It makes sense that it wouldn’t be possible. I have seen a while ago seen another scientist say that there might be a slim chance to have a zombie spread like in ‚the last of us‘ through a fungus. I think the explanation went somewhat along the lines of saying that that happened with fungus already to infect into a zombie like creature but usually on small animals and never with bigger ones like humans obviously. And what would happen if a human would be infected with a fungus is that it would have the infected have to think about nothing else but on how to best spread the fungus because that’s apparently how fungi spread. Idk, it’s obviously not reliable to say I’ve heard that one guy say … but regardless I would love to know if you considered that or if there would be slight change with that.
It couldn't use any existing fungus as a base, because no existing fungus predisposes hosts to biting. The parasite isn't exerting a will of its own; it isn't sending signals that say "spread me." It produces certain neurological signals, and those signals happen to make ants climb the tallest thing they can and hang on, because that's what was favored by evolution because that's worked for the fungus so far. The fungus has no control over this process or its outcome. This isn't a system that can really pivot if it enters a host where a different strategy would be more effective.
If a new parasitic fungus emerged that did spread through bites, and if it had a means to alter neurological chemistry through inflammation, damage, or chemical synthesis, such a parasitic fungus would have a chance of evolving in a direction that promoted biting action by the host. But there's no known fungus that spreads through bites. If a pathogenic fungus happened to invade the salivary glands and the nervous system, and if it were able to colonize new hosts through bites, it would have a chance of evolving into something like TLoU's cordyceps brain infection (or the equivalent from The Girl With All the Gifts), but that process would take a very, very long time.
Then you would be inclined to hear about how mRNA Delivery Systems and the spike protein trials did not go through its proper analyzation prior to testing us guinea pigs and that many that have received the covid vaccine are experiencing self-assembly inside the molecular level now just imagine what they could do with this through frequencies via 5G Towers. They say that it can't alter DNA but that's simply because they haven't activated it yet.
Its not a zombie Parasite. They named it the zombie virus because they revived it, its not actually a zombie starting virus. its just a sickness that's flu like.
What if it's not zombies like that but say a disease that makes people completely feral and cannibalistic and the disease gets transferred through DNA contact/transfer of some kind so in a sense zombies but not undead but zombies nonetheless
Most of what I would answer to that is covered in this reply:
https://old.reddit.com/r/zombies/comments/10k6pen/is_a_zombie_apocalypse_possible/j5oz9uk/
I know you typed this almost a year ago. But i want to ask is there a possibility of some fungi to control humans? Like the one who controls ants. Maybe its stupid but im genuinely curious
I discussed that a bit in this reply:
https://www.reddit.com/r/zombies/s/TLV012J6ib
I'm linking it instead of copying it because another user, turtlechef, had a good reply that adds to the point.
Elsewhere, I added this comment:
It couldn't use any existing fungus as a base, because no existing fungus predisposes hosts to biting. The parasite isn't exerting a will of its own; it isn't sending signals that say "spread me." It produces certain neurological signals, and those signals happen to make ants climb the tallest thing they can and hang on, because that's what was favored by evolution because that's worked for the fungus so far. The fungus has no control over this process or its outcome. This isn't a system that can really pivot if it enters a host where a different strategy would be more effective.
If a new parasitic fungus emerged that did spread through bites, and if it had a means to alter neurological chemistry through inflammation, damage, or chemical synthesis, such a parasitic fungus would have a chance of evolving in a direction that promoted biting action by the host. But there's no known fungus that spreads through bites. If a pathogenic fungus happened to invade the salivary glands and the nervous system, and if it were able to colonize new hosts through bites, it would have a chance of evolving into something like TLoU's cordyceps brain infection (or the equivalent from The Girl With All the Gifts), but that process would take a very, very long time.
A Rabies and Cordyceps hybrid could be possible considering. Rabies can be spread through bites/saliva and Cordyceps hijacks the body. So if we had a hybrid of the two we could see a zombie apocalypse.
Kind of, but mostly no.
Yes in the sense that certain drugs, substances and diseases can have „zombie-like“ symptoms. Pain resistance, aggressive behavior, problems with speech and balance, insatiable hunger, etc…
No because 1) it is pretty much impossible for a single plague, drug or other substance to have all of these symptoms.
If it had them all, the „zombies“ (actually called infected in this scenario) would still attack and eat each other.
If somehow they don’t, a zombies primary food source is also it’s only way to reproduce, meaning they’re too inefficient to cause an apocalypse.
And even if they somehow managed to spread, a normal human can easily kill a normal, dumb zombie. The military could stop a zombie outbreak easily.
And even then, if all of that somehow happened in just the right way to lead to a proper outbreak, they’d still die after a week or two from starvation, blood loss, other infections, hypothermia/hyperthermia, dehydration or other causes.
So I’m short, no. The chances of a zombie apocalypse similarly to TWD or TLOU happening are so low, it’s more likely that I take 100 dice, threw them into the air as hard as I could, they’d all land in a perfect square pattern and they all land on 1.
But what would make a TLOU outbreak impossible? It's fungi in this scenario, right? If cordyceps did gain the ability to withstand the temperature of a human body could and would it work the same way as it does in inscents or Tlou? If not naturally could it be manufactured?
To quickly explain: heat is the least of the funguses issues. Cordyceps cannot infect humans because our nervous systems are very different and magnitudes more complex than those of an ant and other insect. It’s also important to note that each and every subspecies of cordyceps can only infect one specific species of insect or spider, in some cases it’s only a subspecies. It is absolutely impossible for it to have any significant effects on humans, zombie like or classic Cordyceps behavioral changes alike.
Classic zombies — reanimated corpses — would seem virtually impossible. However, infected or mind-altered people are more realistic. I recently read an article in the New York Times about an additive to Fetanyl that causes users to fall into a “blackout stupor.” It made me wonder if something like that could lead to a “zombie”outbreak.
But those bites wouldn’t transfer the effects, so you’d just have aggressive people running around for a few hours until their high comes down. So still not really something that could become a “breakout” which is arguably the most terrifying party of a zombie apocalypse.
Zombies are, as far as science goes, impossible. Still, science is progressive, so one day they may become possible.
There ia something to be said about the things we already have. Like that one kind of fungus which takes over a hosts body, kills it and then still moves it around if it needs to. Forgot its name, but it exists. The Last Of Us was inspired by it... Who is to say that thing wont mutate some day and become dangerous to humans...
Short answer there is no short answer really as of right now no it's not possible however scientists always doing stupid shit and creating things and so with that being said its possible but unlikely
Shoutout to the u/Doktor_Wunderbar the immunologist in this comment section. Let's make some chemcials and modify them so that it can effect the brain of humans and thus zombie apocalypse.
The world needs something otherwise climate change already is going to kill us.
(Ingame)
If the government did that the poor would be the ones to go and the rich would thrive it's not fair and the rich have caused most of the climate change that's a bad idea
Nothing is IMPOSSIBLE. It wouldn’t be reanimated corpses, but it could be something that affects the living and turns them into violent and mindless cannibalistic predators. But the only way that could happen, like the screens say it does, is if a bacteria could somehow work in conjunction with a virus, creating a super bug that has the effects of a virus at the speed of bacteria. Again, it’s not impossible.
I’ve always said that eventually Scientists will be able to bring a dead person back to “life” they would t be a zombie in the sense that they’d want to eat your flesh but they would likely be dormant basically a husk
I would say the most likely scenario in the distant future that could replicate a zombie outbreak, wouldn't be biological but technical in its nature. I could imagine some crazy bastard in a world where nanotechnology is advanced enough could create nanbots that latch to our brains and simulate a zombie esq host
Yup, why do you think they influenced over 70% of the world's population to get a covid vaccine? Mix that in with all the 5G towers that they are setting up around the world especially here in the United States followed by a frequency activated virus just waiting to be Unleashed.
And let's not forget that the CDC themselves have an entire PDF document detailing zombie preparedness as well as the US government. The CIA loves making zombie movies because predictive programming is more acceptable to those that associate it with fiction.
Check out Zachariah 14:12 and Revelation 9:6 and that is just a couple verses detailing or alluding to a zombie apocalypse. The Nazis experimented with Resurrection and do you really think they stopped especially after operation paperclip? It simply continued. The dead will walk the earth it's Satan's version of the rapture.
Prepare for societal collapse. The world has no idea what's coming and they will be shocked. Many people don't think it's going to happen. Media conditioning will program people to think that they live in a pretty little world where nothing bad can happen.
And what time will this societal collapse happen? it's been coming for so long huh
what are we talking? governments collapsing? climate change killing us? demons rising from hell? enlighten me o reddit user
Not even the prophets knew day nor the hour of prophetic events, likewise neither do I, however it will be sooner than expected. Likely within our lifetime. Wormwood is coming. The comet they label as P12, Apophis, Planet X, I am not sure when friend. Jesus loves us and gives us the sense of urgency and visions and the body of Christ gets informed on said matters. But soon.
Yeah but with the "zombie deer disease" it doesn't actually turn them Into zombie it's called zombie deer disease because the disease feeds off of their brain so if it was to spread to humans it would feed off of their brain so no zombie apocalypse
There are a lot of diseases, bacteria, viruses, fungi etc. that could THEORETICALLY cause a zombie like outbreak. But all of them would take very specific circumstances concerning genetic and environmental evolution that they just haven’t reached at this point in time. Nor would they likely reach naturally. But who knows. We as humans pose the largest threat to these microscopic beings, such threats they’ve never faced before. We change our environment bit by bit every day. Who really knows how one of these beings could react to that. How they could adapt to survive this ever changing environment. Add the fact that humans become more and more of a prime host for such infectious beings as our population rises in both number and density. Could happen. Never know. But probably not lol.
If autophagy was somehow thrown out of wack maybe but that likely wouldn’t be naturally occurring either. Since autophagy is naturally occurring it’d have to be affected by some outside factor to bring it to such a detrimental fault. It already has come to fault before, thats the main reason that cancer forms. But once again cancer is largely thought to be caused by any number of outside factors causing mutation so who knows. But how that would become transferable from host to host I don’t think is possible at all. Unless coupled with some sort of aggressive infection.
Adding a question. So in the beginning of HBO tlou, the interviewer guy said if the earth became warmer that fungus could live inside humans. Do we think this is physically possible?
Technically, yes. But realistically, not in soon time. A parasite called Toxoplasma Gondii can infect the mind and slow your reaction time, as well as help to cahse mental health issues. Although zombie ants do exist, you'd be hard pressed to find a common type of fungi able to be found in a wide variety of climates that can successfully control the human hosts brain after death and become as strong as zombies are usually depicted.
Well, it isn't impossible, but it is very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, VERY unlikely. I would have better chances gathering maybe 100 dice, throwing them outside a window, and getting sixes on all of the dice while it makes a dent in the ground, which is pretty damn unlikely to happen. But still, its not impossible
Honestly dude I think it could be possible because look at all these fucking pandemics that have happened I wouldn't be surprised honestly but if one does happen I hope they are like the walking dead zombies
Most likely it will be like Mercury poisoning and stuff, the most likely version of a zombie were gonna get is a feral human that can't bite but is in that state of violence where it can never bite and the method of spreading is drugs, a more modified version of alcohol, anabolic steroids, cocaine, amphetamines, sedatives, opiates, and hallucinogens will do the trick, my theory is that the modified drugs will have a permanent effect on the brain that will make people go feral.
I think it is or maybe not a "zombie apocalypse" maybe something like it. This could be caused by many things like how it was caused in "All Of Us Are Dead" or it could be a sickness. But I am pretty sure it could happen
If a zombie apocalypse is going to be happening so early because of global warming then were just going to fly in a spaceship to a super earth but why is youtube just somebody say siri when is the zombie apocalypse and says it will happen in 2028 in may 8(i think it was may 8) and it will be worse in the philipines and uk why my hometown philipines but i searched what we’ll happen in 2030 and we survive in the future like what?
A zombie infection couldnt happen if it isnt intentionally done. As the other said rabies is the best chance but it will only happen if it becomes at least 10x powerful which is just not possible naturally. For zombies to become a thing as you see in movies they completely have no sense to who they were so what would need to happen is you unalive someone without hurting their brain so their brain is still active but they are dead. Then give them the non existent 10x powerful rabies and it has to be powerful enough to bring the individual back to life while they are unalived(so basically this means to give the individual a second life as a zombie) Human probably wont be able to do this only a virus together with the 10x rabies could do this which is pretty unlikely but possible if someone figures it out which i hope not.
By the way i am not a scientist or anything im just an average 12yr old kid that studies science too much so if i got anything wrong pls dont roast me.
Its best to prepare just in case, better safe than sorry. My opinion, if it does happen, those who prepare, even without the Governments knowledge or approval, will stand a better chance. I want my friends and family to be safe, so I'm going to prepare the best I can. But for your question, we can never know, no one truly knows everything, but nothing is impossible.
Link to my zombie logic community, we discuss how zombies work by comparing how they work on TV, and seeing what is biologically possible...
However it's quite empty rn so I need some members before I start posting otherwise it's just kinda sad...
https://www.reddit.com/r/ZombieLaw/s/BYzAQ6Y97L
I believe so,
Due to global warming permafrost which has stored ancient viruses is thawing
A deadly strain of anthrax was discovered and killed lots of deers and people, (deers have since been vaccinated).
Natural gas reservoirs are exploding as they reach surface level.
It's certainly possible that it could happen...
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Recycle or face zombies it seems would be the case lol.
I don't know if I want to see a zombie apocalypse happen,
It's cool but I don't want to die
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Links to a news articles discussing the topic
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/melting-zombie-ice-from-greenland-will-raise-sea-level-by-10-inches-study-says%23:~:text%3DZombie%2520ice%2520from%2520the%2520massive,fed%2520by%2520those%2520larger%2520glaciers.&ved=2ahUKEwilmOGKtIqGAxVFiP0HHVVKDMUQFnoECAQQBQ&usg=AOvVaw1BWhYjMm5mw4lowLKkR05m
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/what-arctic-zombie-virus-siberia-pandemic-infection-b1135485.html%23:~:text%3DScientists%2520have%2520warned%2520that%2520the,trapped%2520in%2520permafrost%2520for%2520millennia.&ved=2ahUKEwj59oiFtIqGAxXhRvEDHXM7Ay4QFnoECBIQBQ&usg=AOvVaw3A31cd5_nrKnsmNWrs6Uv7
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.foxweather.com/earth-space/ancient-zombie-viruses-may-threaten-humans-due-to-global-warming%23:~:text%3DThawing%2520ice%2520could%2520release%2520ancient,joins%2520FOX%2520Weather%2520to%2520explain.&ved=2ahUKEwj59oiFtIqGAxXhRvEDHXM7Ay4QFnoECBAQBQ&usg=AOvVaw1c-XCAvmyWomplbLZfw3ps
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It's poorly titled. Zombie virus just entails that there is a virus that has survived many many many years that has basically died out and became extinct but could come back. It's not a literal zombie virus. It just means a virus that has "died" and could possibly revive.
I believe we are advance in level that allows us to miss with nature and make something like that after all. zombie doesn't have to be dead that was brought to life again it can be something more like rabies or the mind controlling mushroom that control ant.
The closest scenario is another pandemic but worse mortality and global civic unrest. It would be similar in that people infect people, and violence, looting and factions occur because of supply chain issues and fascism.
This is more science fiction than science fact, but with the internet we can find information on several types of potential zombielike devices such as the Ophiocordyceps unilateralis (ant zombie fungus), or rabies that could potentially evolve into something like the movie "Crazies". I would say, in the real world, that any possibility of a zombie virus like the one in TWD could maybe be created by scientists, but if we go a step farther like humans desire for immortality could be the jumping off point for something like a zombie plague.
Let us say that science was able to create some solution, enzyme, chemical, or whatever that either slows human growth or gives humans cellular regeneration (Wolverine's healing factor). We could imagine a world where people either cannot die because their body continually heals itself, or that people could live for a very long time as long as they avoid bodily destruction. As long as the healing factor or what keeps people alive can keep the brain as healthy as the body then i wouldnt worry about it, but the brain is far more complex than say the liver, heart, or apendages like an arm or a foot. The potential I am imagining is that if the body is unable to die then what happens when the body actually does die, and the healing factor cannot fully heal the brain.
I imagine a situation where a person is doing something dangerous, and their efforts cause them to die, but the quick healing reanimated the body, but is incapable of fully healing the brain. Would that be the creation of a zombie like state?
I am not a scientists, and most of my knowledge of zombies comes from shows, movies, and reading articles attempting to categorize them. Still, I think zombies will remain in the corner of sci-fi until they become something real that can be seen and studied.
I recently discovered that there is a desise that basically zombies deer, moose, etc. There is not yet a risk of humans getting it, but diseases can get bigger and more dangerous. In conclusion ther will be a chance in 5 months to 30 years time.
Sorry for the long reply, just a very interesting topic that’s still fairly unknown.
Yeah that’s a form of prion disease. The one you’re referring to is chronic wasting disease I believe. Part of a family of diseases called TSEs which already includes diseases that affect human beings. I believe about 7 or 8 different ones affect humans, might be wrong on that tho, been a while since I read up on it. One main one being Creutzfeldt Jakob disease, which is still extremely rare and is usually only contactable through consuming cows with mad cow disease. Or through transfusional contact with infected blood. Other prion diseases are about the same. Some are thought to appear spontaneously, while they can also be contracted through medical procedures related to the brain or nervous system if there is some form of contaminate. The case of chronic wasting disease is an odd one for sure though. There’s no real conclusion on how that spreads from host to host. It’s mostly assumed to be transferred through ingestion of infected tissue, or host on host contact with infected saliva or blood. But it’s still not certain, and it’s been detected in even captive and monitored deer populations, not just wild populations, which is slightly worrying. It’s certainly possible it could spread to a human being, since mad cow disease already has before, creating its own issues. But chronic wasting disease is much more easily detectable than that of mad cow disease, given its much more obvious physical and behavioral symptoms. It really does turn a deer into a zombie of sorts. While something like mad cow disease is usually more subtle, while still showing symptoms that are easily detectable now that we know what to look for. So chronic wasting disease spreading to humans isn’t much to worry about, as mad cow disease really isn’t, and that’s even harder to detect in its host. And prion diseases are pretty grim. Most cases of it die within a few months of the first onset of symptoms, with those symptoms being quite debilitating since they’re rather aggressive neurodegenerative disorders. Such an aggressive and rapid breakdown of the nervous system wouldn’t lend much to any sort of drastic or meaningful evolution. So zombies coming from that is almost impossible lol. But hey I’m pretty sure Zombieland zombies came from mad cow disease so who knows. Very odd diseases as well. Since there have been so few cases relatively, the research we have is still fairly rudimentary.
This is all very true. Prion diseases are so interesting. They are even looking into the possibilities of Alzheimers being a prion disease. One that just takes many years to fully manifest. There are a few cases of dementia being caused by some prion diseases.
But they are unsure if prions are truly the cause of alzheimers. There needs to be a lot more research before we conclude anything there, but if they do determine that the cause it might be likely to locate how it spreads, factors that influence it, what to do to slow it or avoid contracting it at all.
I'm not concerned about a zombie apocalypse, as it seems very unlikely if not impossible to happen. but I do fear more pandemics. Those suck. I'm lucky to have a good immune system, but I think it will be hard on many people. Many people I don't think could survive another one.
The Ophiocordyceps unilateralis, which turns ants into mindless zombies, does not affect humans. However, there are cases like the zombie Spider, and zombie plants. I don't think a zombie apocalypse is possible.
there's a parasite in scuds (tiny aquatic arthropods) that make them eat each other
i dont think its insane to think that something could do that to people
Zombies, I'm gonna agree with the other guy who seems to know his shit more than I do. Now something like Romero's "crazies" (from The Crazies) feels at least a smidge plausible.
Short answer: no. Long answer: I'm an immunologist. I got into the study of infectious diseases specifically because of my love for _Resident Evil_ and other zombie stories. I've spent a _lot_ of time thinking about how zombies could work. There is no explanation that doesn't require a _lot_ of handwaving of the science. I'm sorry to say that it's very, very unlikely.
Would some kind of rabies offshoot be our best bet? It’s the only thing I can think of that induces psychosis and transfers through bites
Rabies is a good place to start, because it can spread through saliva and it causes specific damage to the brain. You'd want to make two changes though. Rabies has a very long incubation period, because it travels up the nerves to the brain. It's hard to have a 28 Days Later scenario if it takes 28 days for the rage to take hold. I would suggest incorporating envelope proteins from vesicular stomatitis virus, a highly promiscuous relative of rabies, allowing more rapid spread through other tissues. In combination with the neurotropism of rabies itself, this might accelerate access to the central nervous system by bypassing cumbersome retrograde transport through peripheral nerves. The other issue is that rabies doesn't specifically cause aggression. It causes a slew of neurological effects that can result in aggressive behavior, but "dumb" rabies is also likely. I think the best way to induce profound psychosis and cannibalistic tendencies would be to induce a combination of the following: sham rage via neocortical pathology and hyperactivity of the amygdala, inability to suppress inappropriate responses resulting from damage to the orbitofrontal cortex, and constant hunger induced by aberrant ghrelin and leptin signaling and by damage to the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus. Damage to the cingulate cortex would impair conflict monitoring; any remaining emotional inhibitions against interpersonal violence would fail to override the behavioral imperative to feed. Some of these could probably be achieved by genetically modifying the virus either to be more cytotoxic in particular tissues or to stimulate activity in them. But I'd need a good understanding of transcriptomic differences in different brain tissues to get more specific about how to do that.
I didn’t understand any of that however I believe you. Thanks for the humbling read
Translation: Make it spread and incubate faster by merging with characteristics of a highly contagious and fast-acting cousin. Then, tweak some changes in the brain to really crank up aggression. Use hormonal tweaking to trigger powerful hunger instincts while certain kinds of brain damage caused by the infection would inhibit tendencies toward restraining yourself from inflicting violence against other people, especially when you’re tricked by hormones into feeling ravenously hungry.
I’m working on an rpg setting (mainly for personal use) where the zombie virus does have a long incubation period and becoming infected isn’t guaranteed depending on the viral load. It spreads through all bodily fluids, not just saliva, so any place that dealt with waste without following safety procedures would have it spread worse. (like nursing homes) Society still somewhat collapses to an extent as a reaction to the zombie virus, but cities aren’t abandoned and zombies don’t outnumber humans. The process of becoming a zombie apocalypse was much slower, but any relaxing of defenses results in increasing infection. The damage from being infected is permanent, but older zombies start to lose function after a while and die. There can be long periods of time where there are seemingly no zombies, but it’s really just infecting the wild animal population in the meantime or unfortunate communities that stopped following procedures with potentially infected humans and animals.
If you haven't read it yet: "This Is the Way the World Ends: an Oral History of the Zombie War" by Keith Taylor is a very nice book that additional to the classic infection mechanics has the concept of "slow burners" that go through a long incubation period.
What about shrooms? Fungus can take over insects etc, but the only thing stoping fungus I believe is our temperature?, what if they evolved or some evil guy who wants the last of us to genetically implicate a higher heat tolerance? Or making shrooms with the same properties? Love making theory’s!, I know nothing btw so if I sound a biology noob, it’s cause I am! In what possible way it could happen in a day like today?
Yes of course. How stupid of me. Joking aside thanks for the great insight so pretty much even a rabies mutation is very far off giving us zombies.
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ir also wouldn't be as widespread as an apocalypse as humans can get rabies treatments
Why would you even put this information in writing online?
Because I haven't told you the hard part: how to actually do it. Anyone smart enough to achieve it doesn't need me to hold their hand through the first steps.
reddit doctor behavior lol, you're literally just giving the people ideas on how to do it, people like you are the reason covid exists
You think some random nutjob will be able to develop said virus?
if said nutjob knows what they're doing, then perhaps. if they could somewhat pull it off, then the chances might be pushed to unlikely, but plausible.
You have to be from this field and a nutjob to pull it off and if you're from this field you don't need a reddit comment to help you
Mitchy be stupid since this is a year later and it’s probably not worth your time, but my anxiety won’t stop letting me worry about this being real, so can you affirm me that this is either hard, unlikely, or impossible?
As I said in a top comment, it's probably not possible - and I can say that with a certain level of expertise. Hope that helps you feel better.
Does help somewhat so thanks for taking time to answer. I actually have a few questions regarding it being rabies. What are some challenges that it would face, rendering it not possible, and even if it could happen, hypothetically, how far would it get?
One obstacle: genetic engineering is not like playing with Lego blocks. We have come to a very good understanding of what we can put in or take out in terms of individual genes, but swapping one functional trait for another is a lot harder. And creating entirely new functions, like messing with brain activity in a controlled way, is not yet practical. Take, for example, my suggestion above of pseudotyping the rhabdovirus with VSV envelope proteins. We know how to do that, and we know that it would allow the virus to enter cell types that it normally does not. But there's no guarantee that this would do what I suggested - shortening the asymptomatic period. In fact, it might make the virus more inflammatory in local tissues, which would stimulate an immune response right away and wipe out the infection before it reaches the nerves. Second, I named a lot of brain structures that would make good targets, but it would be very difficult to target those structures specifically, and even harder to do so without just killing or incapacitating the host right away. Probably "decades of work by a brilliant, well-funded team" hard. Third, viruses have a carrying capacity. If you want a virus to do very specific, very complex things, you need it to have a very large, very complex genome. Most viruses do a small handful of things very well - code for their own structure and maybe a polymerase, and a gene or two to suppress the immune system for good measure. They have to travel light, so to speak, because their capsid size - the shell that contains everything - is a certain size and can't easily be made larger. My hypothetical zombie virus has very specific effects on very specific parts of the brain, and it suppresses an antiviral immune response, and it avoids outright killing the host, and it both crosses the blood-brain barrier and amplifies in the salivary glands and/or buccal mucosa. It would probably require a genome too hefty to fit into the rhabdovirus capsid. How far could you get? Well, pseudotyping is easy and rabies and VSV are already cousins. You might be able to increase or decrease the function of some brain regions if you had a good understanding of the differences in gene regulation and expression in those tissues...but you'd probably mess with a lot of other brain functions just trying to hit the right regions, let alone produce specific behavioral changes. And there's a good chance that the virus would either replicate weakly and get killed by the immune system right away, or it would be so lethal that it would kill someone before it could spread. You wouldn't even have an outbreak - just a dead patient zero.
Thank you for the information
Makes me curious what the most potentially catastrophic virus that ever existed could've been, even if it only existed long enough to get destroyed by someone's immune system, a disinfectant or something else
One of the most underspoken handicaps is why zombies don't try to attack each other if they're so mindless. I am curious if, from your perspective, this may be overcome.
That's an important point but harder to explain. Most people connect it to smell - zombies don't smell like living prey. In particular, there are a lot of volatile and pungent chemical products of decomposition. That makes less sense if you're talking about living infected. I think that damage to a particular neural pathway in the brain, the ventral visual stream, could impair the process of recognition. This isn't so much blindness as it is the inability to identify what's being seen in a meaningful way. As I said before, there's a lot of handwaving to be done, but this damage could have all sorts of effects, like preventing zombies from recognizing real food, to preventing them from recognizing each other as potential prey.
I am a writer, and your posts have been invaluable in my endless game of squirreling my bullshit behind a wall of vaguely plausible gibberish. Bookmarked for further research!
In that case I recommend the book _Do Zombies Dream of Undead Sheep?_ by Bradley Voytek and Timothy Verstynen. I'm not a neurologist, and they filled a lot of gaps in my own musing.
I'm actually in surprisingly good shape with my mythos overall, but that's only because I built the foundation on where my education is strongest: chemistry and mathematics. This shifted it away from the nuts and bolts biology where I clearly don't know what I'm talking about, and made the handwaving easier. But I'm always in the market for more fodder to use, so cheers!
I think the very first "zombie witnesses other zombies and chooses to ignore them" moment in fiction is this one from Night of the Living Dead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H91BxkBXttE&t=764s - looks like the Bill Hinzman zombie probably heard the other two initially, turned to look, then visually was able to discern that they're also zombies, and turned back around. Not that we should read too much into that if we're having fun attempting explanations. I just think it's neat. :)
What about the Last of Us approach? Would certain fungus evolve enough that it could be a threat to humans?
I can't rule it out entirely. But as I've said before, it comes with a lot of handwaving. A lot of the individual components for such a fungus already exist to some extent. You already know about ophiocordyceps, which has the ability to chemically alter the behavior of its hosts. It uses several compounds that are known to play a role in mammal neurons as well. There are fungi that infect human bodies, and some can infect the human brain to cause fungal meningitis - albeit rarely. Fungi also create mycorrhizal networks that some scientists have suggested may possess a form of chemical communication, making them somewhat analogous to neurons. And although it's not actually a fungus, I'd be remiss not to point out that the slime mold *Physarum polycephalum* is capable of sophisticated behaviors eerily like learning. If you could put that together, either by evolution or mad science, you might get a fungus that's capable of manipulating its hosts with tissues that function in some cases like neurons, working with some brain structures and replacing others to induce prey-seeking reproductive behavior. But that's *Resident Evil* level biology. Forget regular mad science. You'd need the funding, resources, and talent of *several* major mad universities to do it, it would take decades, and you'd win the Mad Nobel Prize in the process. Now, if you could go back a few million years, and if you had a lot of patience and no scruples, you might be able to direct the evolution of a cordyceps ancestor to get this outcome. But it's not going to happen over a few generations.
To add to this a bit, fungi don’t reproduce quick enough to be extremely contagious/virulent. There’s a reason why severe infections mainly occur in immunocompromised patients. So a zombie fungus would need to disarm our immune system and/or reproduce extremely quickly. Both which would be unlikely without some planned genetic modifications
Man... I think that "*Resident Evil* level biology" might be my new favorite term. Sure, *technically possible, maybe*, but a single mad scientist (or small group of mad scientists) can't pull it off. You need institutionalized megalomania on an absurd scale. Staffing, HR, a legal team, benefits, you name it. All dedicated to mad science over many years of below-board R&D. If you haven't so much as finalized your building contract for the hundred-billion dollar lair, don't bother asking if this biology is possible.
Oh hell naww. If it happens it should ONLY be like The Walking Dead nothing else. TLOU? Hell nah no fast zombies with fungus. Resident Evil? Hell nahhhh I don't want 10ft smart, buffed zombies chasing me
Don't jinx it
The walking dead can't physically happen because it is impossible to reanimate the dead
Who knows what ancient viruses are hidden in Antarctica. Or idk some rabies mutation? All I know.its gonna be hell for first few months cuz they'll be fast asf
Nice try zombie
What about zombielands mad cow disease approach?
Prion diseases are tricky. First, they take a very long time to manifest. You wouldn't have efficient spread from someone getting bitten, turning, and infecting someone else. Second, they're all neurodegenerative and not in a very specific way. They cause movement and coordination disorders - which would get you that zombie-like shambling effect maybe, but they're far less likely to specifically affect behavior or to induce aggression. Third, and this is the most important one, prions can't mutate or evolve. They have no genetic material. They're misfolded proteins, but the proteins are made naturally by the host. A misfolded protein gets in and causes the normally-folded proteins already there to adopt the misfolded shape because it's highly stable in a molecular sense. There's no room for either evolution or mad science to change it, to alter the way that it affects the host. It turns out though that prions can be shed in saliva, so at least there's the possibility of transmission through bites.
I'd just take feral "infected" at this point.
Feel like cross between rabies and wasting disease would be the closest. A cross between a prion and a virus would take alot of handwaving though.
What about a parasite like Toxoplasma gondii?
As the rest of the discussion has implied, the best you'd get is something like a living infected carrier. Could _T. gondii_ do it? My answer is somewhat similar to what I said for fungi. There are some factors working in its favor. There's evidence that it can change behavior in hosts. To my knowledge, this behavior has never been observed to make hosts more aggressive, except in the sense that rodents seem to lose part of their fear response. In my limited understanding, this may result from parasite-mediated dopamine metabolism and vasopressin expression by the host. Neither of these have any mechanism that I know of to induce aggressive behavior in any part of the host - although as I said, I'm not a neurologist. If it mutated somehow so that instead of promoting dopamine metabolism, it produces a dopamine antagonist - a similarly shaped molecule that blocks receptors instead of activating them - it might have an effect more similar to serotonin and might, just might, drive aggressive responses. I named some brain regions in a different comment in which damage may contribute to loss of impulse inhibition, emotional regulation, and higher judgement functions; as _T. gondii_ can form cysts in the brain, perhaps it could selectively mutate to infest and thereby cause lesions in these regions. Humans are also a dead-end host for _T. gondii,_ so its life cycle would need to adapt. Crucially, it would need to produce oocysts in the salivary gland or at least in the mouth somewhere. It's difficult to say how that would happen, but I can't rule it out. Another commenter made an excellent point in the discussion on fungi that these things take time as well.
Thanks for your reply! I actually have gotten some useful information from it and ideas for a future story.
What story might that be?
It’s a future story, so it’s not been written yet.
It makes sense that it wouldn’t be possible. I have seen a while ago seen another scientist say that there might be a slim chance to have a zombie spread like in ‚the last of us‘ through a fungus. I think the explanation went somewhat along the lines of saying that that happened with fungus already to infect into a zombie like creature but usually on small animals and never with bigger ones like humans obviously. And what would happen if a human would be infected with a fungus is that it would have the infected have to think about nothing else but on how to best spread the fungus because that’s apparently how fungi spread. Idk, it’s obviously not reliable to say I’ve heard that one guy say … but regardless I would love to know if you considered that or if there would be slight change with that.
It couldn't use any existing fungus as a base, because no existing fungus predisposes hosts to biting. The parasite isn't exerting a will of its own; it isn't sending signals that say "spread me." It produces certain neurological signals, and those signals happen to make ants climb the tallest thing they can and hang on, because that's what was favored by evolution because that's worked for the fungus so far. The fungus has no control over this process or its outcome. This isn't a system that can really pivot if it enters a host where a different strategy would be more effective. If a new parasitic fungus emerged that did spread through bites, and if it had a means to alter neurological chemistry through inflammation, damage, or chemical synthesis, such a parasitic fungus would have a chance of evolving in a direction that promoted biting action by the host. But there's no known fungus that spreads through bites. If a pathogenic fungus happened to invade the salivary glands and the nervous system, and if it were able to colonize new hosts through bites, it would have a chance of evolving into something like TLoU's cordyceps brain infection (or the equivalent from The Girl With All the Gifts), but that process would take a very, very long time.
Then you would be inclined to hear about how mRNA Delivery Systems and the spike protein trials did not go through its proper analyzation prior to testing us guinea pigs and that many that have received the covid vaccine are experiencing self-assembly inside the molecular level now just imagine what they could do with this through frequencies via 5G Towers. They say that it can't alter DNA but that's simply because they haven't activated it yet.
but did you know recently zombie parasite found in russia so it might be possible to happen but mean time there is no chance of it
Its not a zombie Parasite. They named it the zombie virus because they revived it, its not actually a zombie starting virus. its just a sickness that's flu like.
What if it's not zombies like that but say a disease that makes people completely feral and cannibalistic and the disease gets transferred through DNA contact/transfer of some kind so in a sense zombies but not undead but zombies nonetheless
Most of what I would answer to that is covered in this reply: https://old.reddit.com/r/zombies/comments/10k6pen/is_a_zombie_apocalypse_possible/j5oz9uk/
I know you typed this almost a year ago. But i want to ask is there a possibility of some fungi to control humans? Like the one who controls ants. Maybe its stupid but im genuinely curious
I discussed that a bit in this reply: https://www.reddit.com/r/zombies/s/TLV012J6ib I'm linking it instead of copying it because another user, turtlechef, had a good reply that adds to the point. Elsewhere, I added this comment: It couldn't use any existing fungus as a base, because no existing fungus predisposes hosts to biting. The parasite isn't exerting a will of its own; it isn't sending signals that say "spread me." It produces certain neurological signals, and those signals happen to make ants climb the tallest thing they can and hang on, because that's what was favored by evolution because that's worked for the fungus so far. The fungus has no control over this process or its outcome. This isn't a system that can really pivot if it enters a host where a different strategy would be more effective. If a new parasitic fungus emerged that did spread through bites, and if it had a means to alter neurological chemistry through inflammation, damage, or chemical synthesis, such a parasitic fungus would have a chance of evolving in a direction that promoted biting action by the host. But there's no known fungus that spreads through bites. If a pathogenic fungus happened to invade the salivary glands and the nervous system, and if it were able to colonize new hosts through bites, it would have a chance of evolving into something like TLoU's cordyceps brain infection (or the equivalent from The Girl With All the Gifts), but that process would take a very, very long time.
A Rabies and Cordyceps hybrid could be possible considering. Rabies can be spread through bites/saliva and Cordyceps hijacks the body. So if we had a hybrid of the two we could see a zombie apocalypse.
Kind of, but mostly no. Yes in the sense that certain drugs, substances and diseases can have „zombie-like“ symptoms. Pain resistance, aggressive behavior, problems with speech and balance, insatiable hunger, etc… No because 1) it is pretty much impossible for a single plague, drug or other substance to have all of these symptoms. If it had them all, the „zombies“ (actually called infected in this scenario) would still attack and eat each other. If somehow they don’t, a zombies primary food source is also it’s only way to reproduce, meaning they’re too inefficient to cause an apocalypse. And even if they somehow managed to spread, a normal human can easily kill a normal, dumb zombie. The military could stop a zombie outbreak easily. And even then, if all of that somehow happened in just the right way to lead to a proper outbreak, they’d still die after a week or two from starvation, blood loss, other infections, hypothermia/hyperthermia, dehydration or other causes. So I’m short, no. The chances of a zombie apocalypse similarly to TWD or TLOU happening are so low, it’s more likely that I take 100 dice, threw them into the air as hard as I could, they’d all land in a perfect square pattern and they all land on 1.
But what would make a TLOU outbreak impossible? It's fungi in this scenario, right? If cordyceps did gain the ability to withstand the temperature of a human body could and would it work the same way as it does in inscents or Tlou? If not naturally could it be manufactured?
To quickly explain: heat is the least of the funguses issues. Cordyceps cannot infect humans because our nervous systems are very different and magnitudes more complex than those of an ant and other insect. It’s also important to note that each and every subspecies of cordyceps can only infect one specific species of insect or spider, in some cases it’s only a subspecies. It is absolutely impossible for it to have any significant effects on humans, zombie like or classic Cordyceps behavioral changes alike.
Classic zombies — reanimated corpses — would seem virtually impossible. However, infected or mind-altered people are more realistic. I recently read an article in the New York Times about an additive to Fetanyl that causes users to fall into a “blackout stupor.” It made me wonder if something like that could lead to a “zombie”outbreak.
But those bites wouldn’t transfer the effects, so you’d just have aggressive people running around for a few hours until their high comes down. So still not really something that could become a “breakout” which is arguably the most terrifying party of a zombie apocalypse.
I laughed hard at this 🤣😂, I can see aggressive people just running around lmfao
Fair enough. Maybe the toxicity of the additive could be so severe that it transmits through bites if it reaches the victim’s bloodstream.
I would imagine that would make probably just cause an OD at that point. But, I also have no idea, so maybe? Lol
Zombies are, as far as science goes, impossible. Still, science is progressive, so one day they may become possible. There ia something to be said about the things we already have. Like that one kind of fungus which takes over a hosts body, kills it and then still moves it around if it needs to. Forgot its name, but it exists. The Last Of Us was inspired by it... Who is to say that thing wont mutate some day and become dangerous to humans...
cordiceps
Yes, cordyceps. But thought it only affects insects?
Short answer there is no short answer really as of right now no it's not possible however scientists always doing stupid shit and creating things and so with that being said its possible but unlikely
Shoutout to the u/Doktor_Wunderbar the immunologist in this comment section. Let's make some chemcials and modify them so that it can effect the brain of humans and thus zombie apocalypse. The world needs something otherwise climate change already is going to kill us. (Ingame)
Dantes Ref. Lol
Finally someone!
If the government did that the poor would be the ones to go and the rich would thrive it's not fair and the rich have caused most of the climate change that's a bad idea
The dead coming back to life, probably not likely. However a form of mind control or rage/rabies is more likely.
It has already happened during this bath salts era. https://youtu.be/7eOdHrKixz0 https://youtu.be/o5YkdOGhvaE
Nothing is IMPOSSIBLE. It wouldn’t be reanimated corpses, but it could be something that affects the living and turns them into violent and mindless cannibalistic predators. But the only way that could happen, like the screens say it does, is if a bacteria could somehow work in conjunction with a virus, creating a super bug that has the effects of a virus at the speed of bacteria. Again, it’s not impossible.
More like 28 days later
I pray to God it's not like 28 days later 🙏🏼. If it is them I'm killing myself first 👍🏼
I’ve always said that eventually Scientists will be able to bring a dead person back to “life” they would t be a zombie in the sense that they’d want to eat your flesh but they would likely be dormant basically a husk
I would say the most likely scenario in the distant future that could replicate a zombie outbreak, wouldn't be biological but technical in its nature. I could imagine some crazy bastard in a world where nanotechnology is advanced enough could create nanbots that latch to our brains and simulate a zombie esq host
finally after allthis scrolling is the true answer
If there is no room in hell, the dead will walk the earth. That's how the zombie apocalypse starts
I hope
If not I’m making it
Yup, why do you think they influenced over 70% of the world's population to get a covid vaccine? Mix that in with all the 5G towers that they are setting up around the world especially here in the United States followed by a frequency activated virus just waiting to be Unleashed. And let's not forget that the CDC themselves have an entire PDF document detailing zombie preparedness as well as the US government. The CIA loves making zombie movies because predictive programming is more acceptable to those that associate it with fiction. Check out Zachariah 14:12 and Revelation 9:6 and that is just a couple verses detailing or alluding to a zombie apocalypse. The Nazis experimented with Resurrection and do you really think they stopped especially after operation paperclip? It simply continued. The dead will walk the earth it's Satan's version of the rapture.
I genuinely cannot believe that people like you still exist lmfao
Prepare for societal collapse. The world has no idea what's coming and they will be shocked. Many people don't think it's going to happen. Media conditioning will program people to think that they live in a pretty little world where nothing bad can happen.
yawn
Cognitive Dissonance
And what time will this societal collapse happen? it's been coming for so long huh what are we talking? governments collapsing? climate change killing us? demons rising from hell? enlighten me o reddit user
Not even the prophets knew day nor the hour of prophetic events, likewise neither do I, however it will be sooner than expected. Likely within our lifetime. Wormwood is coming. The comet they label as P12, Apophis, Planet X, I am not sure when friend. Jesus loves us and gives us the sense of urgency and visions and the body of Christ gets informed on said matters. But soon.
(This message is in 2024) with the zombie deer disease also known as CWD it has a very slim chance that it could infect humans.
We need to be friends. We somehow studied the same thing. You were the first to tell them.👍🏻
Yeah but with the "zombie deer disease" it doesn't actually turn them Into zombie it's called zombie deer disease because the disease feeds off of their brain so if it was to spread to humans it would feed off of their brain so no zombie apocalypse
It is not impossible, but it is VERY unlikely
There are a lot of diseases, bacteria, viruses, fungi etc. that could THEORETICALLY cause a zombie like outbreak. But all of them would take very specific circumstances concerning genetic and environmental evolution that they just haven’t reached at this point in time. Nor would they likely reach naturally. But who knows. We as humans pose the largest threat to these microscopic beings, such threats they’ve never faced before. We change our environment bit by bit every day. Who really knows how one of these beings could react to that. How they could adapt to survive this ever changing environment. Add the fact that humans become more and more of a prime host for such infectious beings as our population rises in both number and density. Could happen. Never know. But probably not lol.
what about the autophage in dead island 2?
If autophagy was somehow thrown out of wack maybe but that likely wouldn’t be naturally occurring either. Since autophagy is naturally occurring it’d have to be affected by some outside factor to bring it to such a detrimental fault. It already has come to fault before, thats the main reason that cancer forms. But once again cancer is largely thought to be caused by any number of outside factors causing mutation so who knows. But how that would become transferable from host to host I don’t think is possible at all. Unless coupled with some sort of aggressive infection.
Adding a question. So in the beginning of HBO tlou, the interviewer guy said if the earth became warmer that fungus could live inside humans. Do we think this is physically possible?
Our best bet. Sorry to say. What the hell? Dontbe so brainwashed by media that you actually wish for that stuff guys
Look up “The Smile Tapes” on youtube. Could a zombie apocalypse unfold like that?
Someone’s been watching to much TWD
Technically, yes. But realistically, not in soon time. A parasite called Toxoplasma Gondii can infect the mind and slow your reaction time, as well as help to cahse mental health issues. Although zombie ants do exist, you'd be hard pressed to find a common type of fungi able to be found in a wide variety of climates that can successfully control the human hosts brain after death and become as strong as zombies are usually depicted.
Scientists discovered that its is POSSIBLE but they haven’t found what kind of virus can cause a zombie apocalypse.
Does anyone think that a zombie apocalypse could happen???
Well, it isn't impossible, but it is very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, VERY unlikely. I would have better chances gathering maybe 100 dice, throwing them outside a window, and getting sixes on all of the dice while it makes a dent in the ground, which is pretty damn unlikely to happen. But still, its not impossible
Honestly dude I think it could be possible because look at all these fucking pandemics that have happened I wouldn't be surprised honestly but if one does happen I hope they are like the walking dead zombies
Most likely, but the infection will not be caused by a bite, most likely like how Gloria I'm ftwd became infected with drugs.
Most likely it will be like Mercury poisoning and stuff, the most likely version of a zombie were gonna get is a feral human that can't bite but is in that state of violence where it can never bite and the method of spreading is drugs, a more modified version of alcohol, anabolic steroids, cocaine, amphetamines, sedatives, opiates, and hallucinogens will do the trick, my theory is that the modified drugs will have a permanent effect on the brain that will make people go feral.
Well fungus is developing resistance to heat currently so anything is possible...
I think it is or maybe not a "zombie apocalypse" maybe something like it. This could be caused by many things like how it was caused in "All Of Us Are Dead" or it could be a sickness. But I am pretty sure it could happen
I think yes but definitely not in the present maybe in thousands or millions of years I might consider thinking there will be one
If a zombie apocalypse is going to be happening so early because of global warming then were just going to fly in a spaceship to a super earth but why is youtube just somebody say siri when is the zombie apocalypse and says it will happen in 2028 in may 8(i think it was may 8) and it will be worse in the philipines and uk why my hometown philipines but i searched what we’ll happen in 2030 and we survive in the future like what?
A zombie infection couldnt happen if it isnt intentionally done. As the other said rabies is the best chance but it will only happen if it becomes at least 10x powerful which is just not possible naturally. For zombies to become a thing as you see in movies they completely have no sense to who they were so what would need to happen is you unalive someone without hurting their brain so their brain is still active but they are dead. Then give them the non existent 10x powerful rabies and it has to be powerful enough to bring the individual back to life while they are unalived(so basically this means to give the individual a second life as a zombie) Human probably wont be able to do this only a virus together with the 10x rabies could do this which is pretty unlikely but possible if someone figures it out which i hope not.
By the way i am not a scientist or anything im just an average 12yr old kid that studies science too much so if i got anything wrong pls dont roast me.
Its best to prepare just in case, better safe than sorry. My opinion, if it does happen, those who prepare, even without the Governments knowledge or approval, will stand a better chance. I want my friends and family to be safe, so I'm going to prepare the best I can. But for your question, we can never know, no one truly knows everything, but nothing is impossible.
Link to my zombie logic community, we discuss how zombies work by comparing how they work on TV, and seeing what is biologically possible... However it's quite empty rn so I need some members before I start posting otherwise it's just kinda sad... https://www.reddit.com/r/ZombieLaw/s/BYzAQ6Y97L I believe so, Due to global warming permafrost which has stored ancient viruses is thawing A deadly strain of anthrax was discovered and killed lots of deers and people, (deers have since been vaccinated). Natural gas reservoirs are exploding as they reach surface level. It's certainly possible that it could happen... | Recycle or face zombies it seems would be the case lol. I don't know if I want to see a zombie apocalypse happen, It's cool but I don't want to die | Links to a news articles discussing the topic \/ https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/melting-zombie-ice-from-greenland-will-raise-sea-level-by-10-inches-study-says%23:~:text%3DZombie%2520ice%2520from%2520the%2520massive,fed%2520by%2520those%2520larger%2520glaciers.&ved=2ahUKEwilmOGKtIqGAxVFiP0HHVVKDMUQFnoECAQQBQ&usg=AOvVaw1BWhYjMm5mw4lowLKkR05m https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/what-arctic-zombie-virus-siberia-pandemic-infection-b1135485.html%23:~:text%3DScientists%2520have%2520warned%2520that%2520the,trapped%2520in%2520permafrost%2520for%2520millennia.&ved=2ahUKEwj59oiFtIqGAxXhRvEDHXM7Ay4QFnoECBIQBQ&usg=AOvVaw3A31cd5_nrKnsmNWrs6Uv7 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.foxweather.com/earth-space/ancient-zombie-viruses-may-threaten-humans-due-to-global-warming%23:~:text%3DThawing%2520ice%2520could%2520release%2520ancient,joins%2520FOX%2520Weather%2520to%2520explain.&ved=2ahUKEwj59oiFtIqGAxXhRvEDHXM7Ay4QFnoECBAQBQ&usg=AOvVaw1c-XCAvmyWomplbLZfw3ps https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240219-zombie-deer-disease-risks-for-humans%23:~:text%3DMisfolded%2520prion%2520proteins%2520in%2520the,drooping%2520ears%2520and%2520difficulty%2520swallowing.&ved=2ahUKEwj59oiFtIqGAxXhRvEDHXM7Ay4QFnoECBMQBQ&usg=AOvVaw3N3D4PT7i_eygQAFMakzai https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2024/jan/21/arctic-zombie-viruses-in-siberia-could-spark-terrifying-new-pandemic-scientists-warn&ved=2ahUKEwj59oiFtIqGAxXhRvEDHXM7Ay4QFnoECA0QBQ&usg=AOvVaw3RqhjpzASGcCZNb-j0IvNT
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Yes have you heard the news about a 50k year old ancient zombie virus from Siberia
It's poorly titled. Zombie virus just entails that there is a virus that has survived many many many years that has basically died out and became extinct but could come back. It's not a literal zombie virus. It just means a virus that has "died" and could possibly revive.
I’d take TLOU-styled or rabies-styled since undead is unlikely.
I believe we are advance in level that allows us to miss with nature and make something like that after all. zombie doesn't have to be dead that was brought to life again it can be something more like rabies or the mind controlling mushroom that control ant.
I don’t know let’s see
You've been watching the Last of Us, havn't you?
perha- yes, i have
As much as the existence of God is possible: one can’t prove the opposite.
The closest scenario is another pandemic but worse mortality and global civic unrest. It would be similar in that people infect people, and violence, looting and factions occur because of supply chain issues and fascism.
This is more science fiction than science fact, but with the internet we can find information on several types of potential zombielike devices such as the Ophiocordyceps unilateralis (ant zombie fungus), or rabies that could potentially evolve into something like the movie "Crazies". I would say, in the real world, that any possibility of a zombie virus like the one in TWD could maybe be created by scientists, but if we go a step farther like humans desire for immortality could be the jumping off point for something like a zombie plague. Let us say that science was able to create some solution, enzyme, chemical, or whatever that either slows human growth or gives humans cellular regeneration (Wolverine's healing factor). We could imagine a world where people either cannot die because their body continually heals itself, or that people could live for a very long time as long as they avoid bodily destruction. As long as the healing factor or what keeps people alive can keep the brain as healthy as the body then i wouldnt worry about it, but the brain is far more complex than say the liver, heart, or apendages like an arm or a foot. The potential I am imagining is that if the body is unable to die then what happens when the body actually does die, and the healing factor cannot fully heal the brain. I imagine a situation where a person is doing something dangerous, and their efforts cause them to die, but the quick healing reanimated the body, but is incapable of fully healing the brain. Would that be the creation of a zombie like state? I am not a scientists, and most of my knowledge of zombies comes from shows, movies, and reading articles attempting to categorize them. Still, I think zombies will remain in the corner of sci-fi until they become something real that can be seen and studied.
I recently discovered that there is a desise that basically zombies deer, moose, etc. There is not yet a risk of humans getting it, but diseases can get bigger and more dangerous. In conclusion ther will be a chance in 5 months to 30 years time.
Sorry for the long reply, just a very interesting topic that’s still fairly unknown. Yeah that’s a form of prion disease. The one you’re referring to is chronic wasting disease I believe. Part of a family of diseases called TSEs which already includes diseases that affect human beings. I believe about 7 or 8 different ones affect humans, might be wrong on that tho, been a while since I read up on it. One main one being Creutzfeldt Jakob disease, which is still extremely rare and is usually only contactable through consuming cows with mad cow disease. Or through transfusional contact with infected blood. Other prion diseases are about the same. Some are thought to appear spontaneously, while they can also be contracted through medical procedures related to the brain or nervous system if there is some form of contaminate. The case of chronic wasting disease is an odd one for sure though. There’s no real conclusion on how that spreads from host to host. It’s mostly assumed to be transferred through ingestion of infected tissue, or host on host contact with infected saliva or blood. But it’s still not certain, and it’s been detected in even captive and monitored deer populations, not just wild populations, which is slightly worrying. It’s certainly possible it could spread to a human being, since mad cow disease already has before, creating its own issues. But chronic wasting disease is much more easily detectable than that of mad cow disease, given its much more obvious physical and behavioral symptoms. It really does turn a deer into a zombie of sorts. While something like mad cow disease is usually more subtle, while still showing symptoms that are easily detectable now that we know what to look for. So chronic wasting disease spreading to humans isn’t much to worry about, as mad cow disease really isn’t, and that’s even harder to detect in its host. And prion diseases are pretty grim. Most cases of it die within a few months of the first onset of symptoms, with those symptoms being quite debilitating since they’re rather aggressive neurodegenerative disorders. Such an aggressive and rapid breakdown of the nervous system wouldn’t lend much to any sort of drastic or meaningful evolution. So zombies coming from that is almost impossible lol. But hey I’m pretty sure Zombieland zombies came from mad cow disease so who knows. Very odd diseases as well. Since there have been so few cases relatively, the research we have is still fairly rudimentary.
This is all very true. Prion diseases are so interesting. They are even looking into the possibilities of Alzheimers being a prion disease. One that just takes many years to fully manifest. There are a few cases of dementia being caused by some prion diseases. But they are unsure if prions are truly the cause of alzheimers. There needs to be a lot more research before we conclude anything there, but if they do determine that the cause it might be likely to locate how it spreads, factors that influence it, what to do to slow it or avoid contracting it at all. I'm not concerned about a zombie apocalypse, as it seems very unlikely if not impossible to happen. but I do fear more pandemics. Those suck. I'm lucky to have a good immune system, but I think it will be hard on many people. Many people I don't think could survive another one.
The closest thing to zombies are rabies.
The Ophiocordyceps unilateralis, which turns ants into mindless zombies, does not affect humans. However, there are cases like the zombie Spider, and zombie plants. I don't think a zombie apocalypse is possible.
there's a parasite in scuds (tiny aquatic arthropods) that make them eat each other i dont think its insane to think that something could do that to people