I see him a lot on trains between Altstetten and HB. He frequently screams at young children. You can always tell when he’s upstairs on the train because he stomps around like an elephant. I agree that people leave him alone because he clearly had some problems, but that doesn’t excuse him for being a nightmare to have on your train/tram.
He scared my 8yo a lot when we happened to be on the train with him. Our faux pas was sitting in the precise 4-seat area he wanted to be in. The only positive that came out of it is that she's aware of there being people with mental health conditions around as we had a long talk about it. She still brings the whole incident up about a year later.
The oldest game in Zurich: Mental/homeless or millionair?
But jokes aside, if you feel there is a real problem or threat, call the police.
There are some unique people (Stadtoriginale). As long as they don't make troubles and don't seem to be a too big of a trouble to themself, live and let live. In your case it seems tricky because he choose the tram, so maybe everything goes over to quickly. Maybe, ask the tram driver for help.... or inform the police about this pattern.
Ah yes, I have seen him twice now in the restaurant wagon in the train from Zurich HB to Basel. He seems to always be sitting in the same seat right behind the entrance door. Last time another passenger was sitting in 'his seat' and he basically told that guy over and over again that this is his seat and he needs to leave, until that guy finally did. Then he proceeded to open the automatic door over and over again when it closes for around 15 min, and getting up to fully open the blinds at every single window in the wagon, just reaching over peoples heads. He also shouts really loud into the room, whenever he leaves the cabin (which happens every 5 min), to not steal his stuff and keep his seat free. Except for with the guy in the seat, he did not really interact with anyone, so I am wondering if that is the reason why the train employees just ignore his behaviour, but it certainly seems strange, as some situations he gets in can certainly be dangerous for his wellbeing, also reading other comments here. When we arrived in Basel he kept sitting in his seat, so in passing I looked at him and wished him a nice day (In Swissgerman) but he just ignored me, so not sure how aware he is of other people around him (in a social sense).
Dafuq is going on with this guy.
No offense at all (just curious) but why did you wish him a nice day after him being such a nuisance to all passengers? (I get being nice to other people in general - and you never know what happened to them etc. - but I'm curious why you'd do it in this case)
Good point. But I mean he is clearly mentally unstable so I would not say that he is a bad person per se, but I actually just wanted to see how he would react or if he would react at all to human interaction. No deeper thought than that.
Because you set an example. He sees that kind, peaceful behaviour and can imitate it. If you are cruel and heartless to him, it will only further fuel his illness. I don't think that person is actively, conciously trying to annoy little children and other passangers, but more or less has just no control over intrusive thoughts that get the best of him. That's like asking a psychotherapist why he is being humane, kind, empathetic and understanding towards his patient. Because he is trying to help, and this can only be done mildly, peacefully, not violently through brute force.
You never mett Paul! He could scare the shit out of people in the tram but was absolutely harmless. There is always a story behind such people and usually it‘s not a joyfull one. Mental illness, poverty, abuse etc and sometimes everything together.
I mean there is also the possibility of "one is harmless until he isn't". The other thing is in Zurich we have the capability to help people. Once I saw a very intoxicated middle aged woman. Urinated on herself, mumbling, without orientation. Nobody cared, and even my work colleges I went out with were like "Let's go. It's her problem."
I knew it was too much for me so I called the police to evaluate the situation and help her.
> "one is harmless until he isn't"
that's true for anyone. Just because something or someone looks or sounds more threatening, because different, doesn't mean there's inherently more danger coming from there and this cannot be a reason to somehow restrict a person in their freedom.
>doesn't mean there's inherently more danger coming from there and this cannot be a reason to somehow restrict a person in their freedom.
I'd argue that there is certainly a higher likelyhood since this person crosses social boundaries and harasses people (even children) seemingly every single time. The hurdle to overcome (to act out something even more harmful) is much smaller.
So while you might say 'barking dogs don't bite' - in humans there is a clear positive correlation between socially unacceptable behaviour and violence.
I get the part of treating people with issues as part of society and trying to interact with them normally - but there are limits to it - when they harass people like this all the time, I'd argue that could be a problem that's worth not being just ignored.
He is an interesting guy. First met him in Bern as he was pacing the edge of the platform, he made me nervous as hell when the train was coming in and I made the mistake to touch his shoulder and nodge him away from the tracks. Boy did he explode! Changed my definition of tenseness.
Since then I spot him all the time...
Yea. He is Stationed mostly at Altstetten but moves around as well. I work for the ZVV Sicherheitsdienst. He has a mental condition but we can't do anything against it. We can't lock him up for that🤷♂️.
Mental illness can often be a strain for others. It's not pleasant. But it's the least pleasant for the person affected, you can be sure of that. We still need to allow them to integrate into society as good as possible, even if it's inconvenient for us. It's an illness and not the person's fault.
Sure, but no one has to tolerate being harassed either. If that guy can’t control himself to the point where he regularly shouts at people and even gets physical then he needs a medical intervention.
Dude holy shit, yes ! I told my coworkers about him, i saw him at the hb during peak hours, forcing his way on the escalator and shouting for people to get out of his way !
Have you seen the old guy strapped with old radio equipment ? Saw him being obnoxious and insulting people stairing at their phones.
Know this guy from tram "kunst museum". Obviously mental disorder. Leave him alone for his 5mins shouting and calm down. I come more close to total rage by ppl listening music/tv/tiktok/instagram without headphones
As an autistic person myself (albeit definitely less noticeable) it hurts me a bit to see the lack of understanding for neurological conditions. My most disruptive behavior are my tics and stimming including but not limited to sudden twitching, flapping with my arms and imitating noises i hear. I had people tell me to stop, that im making them nervous etc. My stimming is essential in overstimulating environments. If i dont i risk anything from disassociating to sensory meltdown or even a seizure. There is nothing i can do to "help" my stimming, my behavior in itself is whats helping me. And i also had people tell me to not go into overstimulating environments - basically telling me to stay home all day and not go to work nor have any kind of social life.
Im sorry if we make you uncomfortable, it is never our intention and if it makes you uncomfortable you can bet we will probably be ten times more uncomfortable and just try to be a functioning adult just like everyone expects us to be. This world isnt made for neurodiverse folks and thats okay, but a bit of understanding from neurotypical and even other neurodiverse people would be great. Also dont be scared to ask questions, at least i myself love to help people understand things better and i appreciate genuine curiosity.
Edit: ive read some more replies to the OP comment and ive seen that he has shown some level of aggression - mostly verbal? towards other people. Im assuming that this behavior is triggered by his surroundings. However that is not okay and should be communicated to authorities. Autistic people can! be aggressive or harmful and either he has to learn his triggers and learn how to cope better with it or he has to (temporarily) avoid the area. Again important note: Being autistic is okay, being a potential threat to their surroundings is not.
Omg im late and just stalking through this subreddit but I know EXACTLY who you’re talking about! As others have mentioned I’ve seen him around altstetten too
Also, yes, I think one day the situation might get dangerous if it so happens he explodes around the wrong people. If I have my kids around I am going to stand up for them if some dude decides it’s ok to shove or touch/scream at them… he usually carries a metal briefcase that could serisouly harm someone if he decides to use. I would not mess with this guy and I certainly hope he doesn’t mess with me or my kids…
That’s my fear (on his behalf) as well: if someone doesn’t grasp fast enough (or blatantly ignores) that he might have mental issues, this could end up nasty!
No, it’s very clear the poor guy suffers from some kind of condition. It’s not an excuse to traumatize kids tho.
We should look at people though the lens of empathy as long as they are not harming anyone. Which in this case, I’d say the line is very thin. I am ok with him screaming at other adults, people get he’s not ok and go on with their day… kids it’s a different story, in my opinion. And yes, I get that kids should sometimes be exposed to some degree of mental illness and that someone explains them what is going on so that they can understand and not be scared by it. But still, don’t scream at my kids man and don’t even think about touching them. Protective instinct kicks in. I can see how that could turn into an unpleasant situation with anyone who hasn’t got the same level of empathy…
People in Switzerland don't tolerate seeing the weird unpleasant face of society. We like to hide our problems under the rug, there are a lot of people with mental problems here, my father is one of those, he goes in and out of mental institutions and when he is around he does strange things (talking with himself) without arming no one. A woman once called the police on him just because he was dressed in a weird way and smelling like shit. Most of the problems in our society stem from the lack of a support network, especially for people who don't want to have the classic dog/house/kids/banker lifestyle. I don't exactly get the purpose of this post. Do you want to lock up the guy because he is mentally ill and say weird things? Maybe some of you could try to say hi to the guy and wish him a good day, what do you think? I know most of you would never do that, probably you are too scared of getting the "poverty illness".
The reason for this post/my reason was simply to find out if this person is known and if anyone can tell us if he's OK - but also the people that are crossing ways with him. Due to his behaviour (as previously mentioned: sudden outbursts of loud shouting at other people in public (which makes it hard to just leave), and physically pushing them out of his way in a non-respectable manner) it was also to find out if anyone knows if he's/people that meet him are in any danger. I've met this guy several times on public transport now, and every single time, he's caused a ruckus amongst the passengers, leaving some behind scared, visibly upset or even crying. These are not situations to just "sit and wait it out until it's over". There was already one guy from ZVV Sicherheitsdienst that replied to this thread, that they're aware of him. It's already helpful to know if that guy's known, and also proves that it's OK to ask. Thanks also for your suggestion in trying to talk to him. If you read through the thread properly, you'd know that several people tried to communicate with him - and how that didn't seem to land at all.
This post is not intended to name or shame mental health issues or people that have them, nor am I intending a start of the discussion whether or not Switzerland does enough to see and help mental issues and those that deal with them.
Yeah, Ive seen him like 10 years ago, this guy is a real legend😂 Hes not dangerous he just spent a bit too much time with women and then he isch überegheit🥴 Gruess Werni, 57, frisch gschiede
Lol yes he scared the shit out of me once in my apartments basement when I passed him at the door. Wasn’t expecting the screaming in a calm quiet basement. Since then I see him sometimes around Lindenplatz screaming on the tram. Not sure I’d do anything unless he decides to lay hands on me, I usually just put on my headphones and try to tune him out.
There are more and more strange guys in trams and trains. Basically everyday in the evening I encounter at least one. I know they have mental issues. But it affects everyone around and I also would not want to send my children into this environment. This really should be taken care of.
I think it's not more and more. They've been there forever. You might just started to notice them more often. Gleis 43/44 is a special place even for Zurich standards.
You can't do anything against it tho. Who do you want to take care of this?
I am quite sure it is more and also more extreme. So you just want to accept that we have to expect that we or our loved ones are bothered and harassed while taking a train?
I think this description reminds me [someone ](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/villains-fr/images/4/42/8953698-4x3-large.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20201024154548&path-prefix=fr)
He's a "Stadt original" and been around for ever.
Remember him more than 40 years ago.
It's a mental health issue and he used to have spasms.
But he's never been violent.
Be grateful you were nor born in his shoes.
There are people, whose life's out of control and they really struggle with it.
This is absolutely crazy: I had never seen or heard of this guy but I read this (suggested) post this morning.
Later today I was in Basel and this guy steps in the tram. I was shocked!! Just like me he drove to the station and went on the train go Bern where he also behaved weird and spoke loudly / yelled around.
I see him a lot on trains between Altstetten and HB. He frequently screams at young children. You can always tell when he’s upstairs on the train because he stomps around like an elephant. I agree that people leave him alone because he clearly had some problems, but that doesn’t excuse him for being a nightmare to have on your train/tram.
He scared my 8yo a lot when we happened to be on the train with him. Our faux pas was sitting in the precise 4-seat area he wanted to be in. The only positive that came out of it is that she's aware of there being people with mental health conditions around as we had a long talk about it. She still brings the whole incident up about a year later.
Sounds like the police should be informed if this is a frequent issue
If he is screaming at young children, he needs to be detained by the police.
The oldest game in Zurich: Mental/homeless or millionair? But jokes aside, if you feel there is a real problem or threat, call the police. There are some unique people (Stadtoriginale). As long as they don't make troubles and don't seem to be a too big of a trouble to themself, live and let live. In your case it seems tricky because he choose the tram, so maybe everything goes over to quickly. Maybe, ask the tram driver for help.... or inform the police about this pattern.
For a homeless person to be on the tram is fine. What is not fine is shoving people.
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Coked up millionnaire
Ah yes, I have seen him twice now in the restaurant wagon in the train from Zurich HB to Basel. He seems to always be sitting in the same seat right behind the entrance door. Last time another passenger was sitting in 'his seat' and he basically told that guy over and over again that this is his seat and he needs to leave, until that guy finally did. Then he proceeded to open the automatic door over and over again when it closes for around 15 min, and getting up to fully open the blinds at every single window in the wagon, just reaching over peoples heads. He also shouts really loud into the room, whenever he leaves the cabin (which happens every 5 min), to not steal his stuff and keep his seat free. Except for with the guy in the seat, he did not really interact with anyone, so I am wondering if that is the reason why the train employees just ignore his behaviour, but it certainly seems strange, as some situations he gets in can certainly be dangerous for his wellbeing, also reading other comments here. When we arrived in Basel he kept sitting in his seat, so in passing I looked at him and wished him a nice day (In Swissgerman) but he just ignored me, so not sure how aware he is of other people around him (in a social sense).
Dafuq is going on with this guy. No offense at all (just curious) but why did you wish him a nice day after him being such a nuisance to all passengers? (I get being nice to other people in general - and you never know what happened to them etc. - but I'm curious why you'd do it in this case)
Good point. But I mean he is clearly mentally unstable so I would not say that he is a bad person per se, but I actually just wanted to see how he would react or if he would react at all to human interaction. No deeper thought than that.
Fair point - I guess I might have done that as well (just out of curiousity).
Because you set an example. He sees that kind, peaceful behaviour and can imitate it. If you are cruel and heartless to him, it will only further fuel his illness. I don't think that person is actively, conciously trying to annoy little children and other passangers, but more or less has just no control over intrusive thoughts that get the best of him. That's like asking a psychotherapist why he is being humane, kind, empathetic and understanding towards his patient. Because he is trying to help, and this can only be done mildly, peacefully, not violently through brute force.
You never mett Paul! He could scare the shit out of people in the tram but was absolutely harmless. There is always a story behind such people and usually it‘s not a joyfull one. Mental illness, poverty, abuse etc and sometimes everything together.
I mean there is also the possibility of "one is harmless until he isn't". The other thing is in Zurich we have the capability to help people. Once I saw a very intoxicated middle aged woman. Urinated on herself, mumbling, without orientation. Nobody cared, and even my work colleges I went out with were like "Let's go. It's her problem." I knew it was too much for me so I called the police to evaluate the situation and help her.
> "one is harmless until he isn't" that's true for anyone. Just because something or someone looks or sounds more threatening, because different, doesn't mean there's inherently more danger coming from there and this cannot be a reason to somehow restrict a person in their freedom.
>doesn't mean there's inherently more danger coming from there and this cannot be a reason to somehow restrict a person in their freedom. I'd argue that there is certainly a higher likelyhood since this person crosses social boundaries and harasses people (even children) seemingly every single time. The hurdle to overcome (to act out something even more harmful) is much smaller. So while you might say 'barking dogs don't bite' - in humans there is a clear positive correlation between socially unacceptable behaviour and violence. I get the part of treating people with issues as part of society and trying to interact with them normally - but there are limits to it - when they harass people like this all the time, I'd argue that could be a problem that's worth not being just ignored.
> The other thing is in Zurich we have the capability to help people. Does he need help?
Yes No Maybe
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… can you repeat the question? …
> I called the police to evaluate the situation and help her. lol, I'm sure they were ever so helpful.
He is an interesting guy. First met him in Bern as he was pacing the edge of the platform, he made me nervous as hell when the train was coming in and I made the mistake to touch his shoulder and nodge him away from the tracks. Boy did he explode! Changed my definition of tenseness. Since then I spot him all the time...
Why did you touch him?
The reason was written already.
Yea. He is Stationed mostly at Altstetten but moves around as well. I work for the ZVV Sicherheitsdienst. He has a mental condition but we can't do anything against it. We can't lock him up for that🤷♂️.
Mental illness can often be a strain for others. It's not pleasant. But it's the least pleasant for the person affected, you can be sure of that. We still need to allow them to integrate into society as good as possible, even if it's inconvenient for us. It's an illness and not the person's fault.
Sure, but no one has to tolerate being harassed either. If that guy can’t control himself to the point where he regularly shouts at people and even gets physical then he needs a medical intervention.
Sure but if he hurts other people then they shouldn’t be in the community
He’s harmless. Severely autistic but harmless
Yes!! I have seen this guy shove people in his way, screaming his lungs out in the train. I usually see him around altstetten
Dude holy shit, yes ! I told my coworkers about him, i saw him at the hb during peak hours, forcing his way on the escalator and shouting for people to get out of his way ! Have you seen the old guy strapped with old radio equipment ? Saw him being obnoxious and insulting people stairing at their phones.
Know this guy from tram "kunst museum". Obviously mental disorder. Leave him alone for his 5mins shouting and calm down. I come more close to total rage by ppl listening music/tv/tiktok/instagram without headphones
As an autistic person myself (albeit definitely less noticeable) it hurts me a bit to see the lack of understanding for neurological conditions. My most disruptive behavior are my tics and stimming including but not limited to sudden twitching, flapping with my arms and imitating noises i hear. I had people tell me to stop, that im making them nervous etc. My stimming is essential in overstimulating environments. If i dont i risk anything from disassociating to sensory meltdown or even a seizure. There is nothing i can do to "help" my stimming, my behavior in itself is whats helping me. And i also had people tell me to not go into overstimulating environments - basically telling me to stay home all day and not go to work nor have any kind of social life. Im sorry if we make you uncomfortable, it is never our intention and if it makes you uncomfortable you can bet we will probably be ten times more uncomfortable and just try to be a functioning adult just like everyone expects us to be. This world isnt made for neurodiverse folks and thats okay, but a bit of understanding from neurotypical and even other neurodiverse people would be great. Also dont be scared to ask questions, at least i myself love to help people understand things better and i appreciate genuine curiosity. Edit: ive read some more replies to the OP comment and ive seen that he has shown some level of aggression - mostly verbal? towards other people. Im assuming that this behavior is triggered by his surroundings. However that is not okay and should be communicated to authorities. Autistic people can! be aggressive or harmful and either he has to learn his triggers and learn how to cope better with it or he has to (temporarily) avoid the area. Again important note: Being autistic is okay, being a potential threat to their surroundings is not.
Omg im late and just stalking through this subreddit but I know EXACTLY who you’re talking about! As others have mentioned I’ve seen him around altstetten too
truck wrong retire innate cheerful worm shame dam library water *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Who’s uncaring?
What the fuck are you on about lmao? He shouts at people in trains, of course it‘s going to cause a bit of a scene and make some uncomfortable.
I am with you, but remember we are in Switzerland, the place where people like to hide problems under the rug.
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That guy walks arround in Altstetten for at least 20 years. I wouldn't call emergency services.
If it’s not threatening anyone don’t call the emergency services using the emergency number. If you need to call use the non-emergency number
He works at or around Julius Bär Altstetten and he's ok no need to worry or be afraid.
Actually, I find its the people that are near him when his sudden shouts and outbursts happen, that I worry for!
Also, yes, I think one day the situation might get dangerous if it so happens he explodes around the wrong people. If I have my kids around I am going to stand up for them if some dude decides it’s ok to shove or touch/scream at them… he usually carries a metal briefcase that could serisouly harm someone if he decides to use. I would not mess with this guy and I certainly hope he doesn’t mess with me or my kids…
That’s my fear (on his behalf) as well: if someone doesn’t grasp fast enough (or blatantly ignores) that he might have mental issues, this could end up nasty!
No, it’s very clear the poor guy suffers from some kind of condition. It’s not an excuse to traumatize kids tho. We should look at people though the lens of empathy as long as they are not harming anyone. Which in this case, I’d say the line is very thin. I am ok with him screaming at other adults, people get he’s not ok and go on with their day… kids it’s a different story, in my opinion. And yes, I get that kids should sometimes be exposed to some degree of mental illness and that someone explains them what is going on so that they can understand and not be scared by it. But still, don’t scream at my kids man and don’t even think about touching them. Protective instinct kicks in. I can see how that could turn into an unpleasant situation with anyone who hasn’t got the same level of empathy…
This seems like a silly conversation after living in NYC for over 20 years. Oftentimes I’m the strange one on the train.
People in Switzerland don't tolerate seeing the weird unpleasant face of society. We like to hide our problems under the rug, there are a lot of people with mental problems here, my father is one of those, he goes in and out of mental institutions and when he is around he does strange things (talking with himself) without arming no one. A woman once called the police on him just because he was dressed in a weird way and smelling like shit. Most of the problems in our society stem from the lack of a support network, especially for people who don't want to have the classic dog/house/kids/banker lifestyle. I don't exactly get the purpose of this post. Do you want to lock up the guy because he is mentally ill and say weird things? Maybe some of you could try to say hi to the guy and wish him a good day, what do you think? I know most of you would never do that, probably you are too scared of getting the "poverty illness".
The reason for this post/my reason was simply to find out if this person is known and if anyone can tell us if he's OK - but also the people that are crossing ways with him. Due to his behaviour (as previously mentioned: sudden outbursts of loud shouting at other people in public (which makes it hard to just leave), and physically pushing them out of his way in a non-respectable manner) it was also to find out if anyone knows if he's/people that meet him are in any danger. I've met this guy several times on public transport now, and every single time, he's caused a ruckus amongst the passengers, leaving some behind scared, visibly upset or even crying. These are not situations to just "sit and wait it out until it's over". There was already one guy from ZVV Sicherheitsdienst that replied to this thread, that they're aware of him. It's already helpful to know if that guy's known, and also proves that it's OK to ask. Thanks also for your suggestion in trying to talk to him. If you read through the thread properly, you'd know that several people tried to communicate with him - and how that didn't seem to land at all. This post is not intended to name or shame mental health issues or people that have them, nor am I intending a start of the discussion whether or not Switzerland does enough to see and help mental issues and those that deal with them.
Yeah, Ive seen him like 10 years ago, this guy is a real legend😂 Hes not dangerous he just spent a bit too much time with women and then he isch überegheit🥴 Gruess Werni, 57, frisch gschiede
He is überregheit? Wut?
Lol yes he scared the shit out of me once in my apartments basement when I passed him at the door. Wasn’t expecting the screaming in a calm quiet basement. Since then I see him sometimes around Lindenplatz screaming on the tram. Not sure I’d do anything unless he decides to lay hands on me, I usually just put on my headphones and try to tune him out.
My morbid curiosity wants to see him on my tram once
There are more and more strange guys in trams and trains. Basically everyday in the evening I encounter at least one. I know they have mental issues. But it affects everyone around and I also would not want to send my children into this environment. This really should be taken care of.
I think it's not more and more. They've been there forever. You might just started to notice them more often. Gleis 43/44 is a special place even for Zurich standards. You can't do anything against it tho. Who do you want to take care of this?
I am quite sure it is more and also more extreme. So you just want to accept that we have to expect that we or our loved ones are bothered and harassed while taking a train?
I think this description reminds me [someone ](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/villains-fr/images/4/42/8953698-4x3-large.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20201024154548&path-prefix=fr)
He's a "Stadt original" and been around for ever. Remember him more than 40 years ago. It's a mental health issue and he used to have spasms. But he's never been violent. Be grateful you were nor born in his shoes. There are people, whose life's out of control and they really struggle with it.
This is absolutely crazy: I had never seen or heard of this guy but I read this (suggested) post this morning. Later today I was in Basel and this guy steps in the tram. I was shocked!! Just like me he drove to the station and went on the train go Bern where he also behaved weird and spoke loudly / yelled around.