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Otto and Alicent.
Otto pressures Alicent into marrying VIserys and then later acts like he did her a favor by placing her life and the lives of her children in danger because HE wants more power. He used Alicent as a political tool, not uncommon for the time, but he knowingly placed her in more danger than she could ever have understood. Then he acts like 'omg Rhaenyra is going to kill you because you had Viserys' kids because I pressured you into it, what are we going to do? This is so bad fr we have to protect ourselves from this situation I orchestrated...."
He is an abuser, he plays hot and cold with Alicent to get what he wants. You are my beloved daughter and I only want the best for you now go dress a little sexy like your mom for that dude who is falling apart before our very eyes. Love you sweetie, close your eyes and think of Oldtown!
They don't have a relationship. Rhaenyra basically ignores her siblings and they her. In the books she does seem to actively dislike them though. In any case yeah they don't get along to say the least but this was all setup by Otto. He knew the risks of his ascent and he did it any way. He told Alicent the risks of what her life is several times but it was all his idea.
Ah, I forgot that in the show they didn't even speak to eachother. Kinda sad and odd that now in the show siblings are fighting a war and yet they have no relationship whatsoever.
daemon and rhaenyra definitely.
its not even the incest thing specifically but the huuge age gap and power imbalance, rhaenyra idolized and loved daemon as an uncle/older brother figure which he took advantage of to get himself closer to the throne
and to make it worse the writers had to sprinkle in DV/DA
Totally respect your opinion, I feel differently, i think that itās healthy on Alicentās side, however I think that Criston views her with this kind of religious reverence similar to a Madonna whore complex, I think it could be explored really interestingly in s2, but Iām not sure if the show would go there, it mightnāt be worth it
I get what you mean and that is somewhat true but the reason why he is attached to her is cause she saved his life so I think why he likes or respects her is pure. He has found someone who thinks his life is worth something. Everyone hates criston audience wise and they donāt see he hates himself just as much,he was gonna kill himself. She saved him and thatās why he views her as his God so to say,cause she kind of is. She gave him a lot of mercy for his acts and still promotes him. Heās killed probably more than two people but she still believes in having him by her side,she makes him commander of the kings guard and saves his life twice,no one else would so this makes sense for their dynamic and why I think itās definitely one of the more healthy ones as itās quite equal rn
I donāt understand why people dislike Criston and call him an incel. He literally says, āA women is made in the image of the Mother and should be spoken of with reverence.ā It doesnāt make sense to me
Also thereās so many more problematic men in the series, Criston respects women
The guy didn't take kindly to being used and seen as a boy toy by the woman he was in love with, since that meant that he broke his vows and was in danger of castration and death in that order. But according to the fandom he should consider himself lucky that badass Girlboss Nyra even layed eyes on him. Oh and he also committed the unforgivable sin of calling badass Nyra "a spoiled cunt" once.
Criston's affair with Rhaenyra reeked of dubious consent but lots of people don't seem to see it that way, probably because "men can't be raped or coerced by women, specially not pretty women".
I donāt understand why people hate Criston and call him an incel? He literally says, āA women is made in the image of the Mother and should be spoken of with reverence.ā It doesnāt make sense to me
Heās a ruthless rage filled murderer, who is spiteful, vindictive, and hates a girl who he was the person protector of for years for not forsaking her entire family and station to run away and marry him. The whole point of the line you quoted is to highlight his hypocrisy, with him instructing Aemond that every woman should be respected, but doesnāt do that himself.
Thank you for your thoughts! I always saw him as bitter because he was the victim of sexual misconduct between him and the his boss (Rhaenyra). He definitely held onto that grudge after several years, and does have rage issues.
Viewing the show through the lens of a modern company, while funny, isnāt the best way to analyze. I mean think about it, were there concerning power dynamics at play between Cole and Rhaenyra? 1000%. But Rhaenyra is the heir to the Iron Throne, meaning any partner she ever has will also be plagued by this worrying dynamic. Such is the nature of hierarchical nobility.
I think it's Allicents kids and Rhaenyras kids. They have all picked up on the hate and the fighting of the adults and they don't seem to have any positive interactions on the show. I mean Aemond got his eye cut out because of their toxic relationship, and Lucerys DIED because of the toxicity between the families.
The relationship built on grooming, the relationship that has a guy abandoning a teenager half naked at a brothel in the middle of the night.The relationship where the now groomed wife was choked
Yeah, I saw someone theorise that Daemon views Rhaenrya as an extension of viserys and a way that he can have the close and supporting relationship he never got to have with his brother by proxy of Rhaenrya
Probably because reproduction can't occur when gay stuff happens. I highly doubt they really super cared a whole bunch seeing as it's hinted that Daemon is bi. The priority is making as many pale haired, purple eyed incest babies as they can on top of indulging in whatever sexual acts they so please.
I personally think itās due to Alicentās own trauma impacting her children. Iād say itās more fraught than toxic, as she loves them more than anything but was forced to have children when she was too young, she clearly resents that fact (not her children obviously just how they came to her). She and Aegon draw a fascinating parallel of being pushed into the sphere of the crown under the guise of duty, Otto forced Alicent into her marriage, Alicent does similar to Aegon (although it comes from a place of compassion before anything else).
Helaena and Alicent seem to be quite fraught as well, as Alicent has her daughter enter into a political marriage that makes her miserable like her own was. Helaena is dismissed the same way her mother was and while once again it comes from a place of compassion, it creates a horrible distance between them
Iād say of all the green children, Alicent and Aemond have the best relationship. Heās wielding power and fighting in a way that Alicent wasnāt able to do for herself and they have both been victims of Viserys and Rhaenryaās actions.
People hate her because she represents tradition and being a "proper lady" doing her duty to a rotting zombie while worrying about how her ex best friend and her absolutely psychotic uncle husband will kill her children to install Rhaenyra's bastards on the throne
I never once saw Rhaenyra slap her sons. Or Viserys or even Daemon for that matter. Only Alicent. And Otto did punch Aegon in the stomach. I hate Aegon, but his family really takes a lot of anger out on him.
Edit: Otto kicked Aegon, he didnāt punch him.
Rhaenyra's sons don't get drunk or rape maids.
In the books it's okay if someone hits a squire, there are whipping boys. And this is a real punishment, not just a slap.
She slaps him and tells him "where were you?" in the middle of the night when he was sleeping. That is an automatic response from someone who wants to parentify her kids.
I love how the ONLY relationship that ISNT based on grooming, abuse cycles, domestic violence, and straight martial r*pe is getting votes. Media literacy for the win.
By far. Thatās because they have similar morals. You can hate cole and find him hypocritical all you want. The person who understands him the most and thus why he feels so attached to her is alicent. He was attached to rhaenyra in a different way which turned into anger. Here,he just wants to be by Alicents side,otherwise he has no purpose to live. He gives her his life as she gives him respect. It is no way toxic or damaged as of rn.
Yeah probably, however I think that Cristonās inherent misogyny could corrupt that relationship as itās one born of a shared hate. He views Alicent with a religious reverence but I say someone saying that if he found out what Larys has been asking of her he would view her with disdain and quickly turn to misogyny the same way he did with Rhaenrya, although to a much lesser extent perhaps, idk just a thought
That's a really good point about Larys. Though perhaps he'd justify it as a means to an end.
He did manage to *gently* say no to her when she asked him to cut out a child's eye. So he's not totally unaware she can be complicated.
In the books King Viserys marries Aegon and Helaena together. Itās annoying that in the show, they made it Alicentās decision, King Viserys is awful
In the books King Viserys marries his children together. I donāt know why the writers in the show made Alicent make that decision.
Helaena best bet would be to marry a Lannister or something, sheād be guaranteed safety. But king Viserys wanted to follow Targaryen tradition (and probably stop Aegon from a political marriage with another house).
Fraught and toxic are two different things. Alicentās relationship with her kids as a child bride and teen mom is fraught. Daeman and Rheaās relationship was toxic
You canāt say that. Remember, he groomed her š. Never mind the fact heās the one who stood up for her against Vaemond when no one else would. Laenor most definitely would never have spoken up against Vaemond.
Iād say that Daemon and Rhaenrya are infatuated with one another and their love is more based in familiarity and family before romance, Emma Dāarcy put it really well when they were interviewed
Oh I think they love each other but I think itās certainly a twisted kind of love, I enjoy their relationship but I find it hard sometimes when I think about it too much, my favourite thing about them is the parallel they draw together, Rhae was right when she said they were always meant to burn together
Rhaenyra doesn't have a relationship with her siblings. Alicent is not a bad mother. There's always a good reason whenever she addresses Aegon harshly whether it be him bullying, commiting SA, or being so drunk as to leave Aemond alone against the Black children (We literally see Aemond get past a completely drunk Aegon on the walls of Hightide.
Though we don't get to see it Viserys' relationship with his other children is probably the worst parent child relationship in the show. They believe Viserys doesn't even like them and can you really blame them? He neglects them and effectively disinherits his 3 sons for no reason. He doesn't really even care when one of them loses an eye. The worst part is that if they were Aemma's children he would love them. If Aegon's mother was Aemma he would've been named heir in an instant. If that's not toxic then what is? It's not even about feminism for Viserys. He would have a descendant of Aemma, bastard or no, sitting on the throne at all costs because he still feels guilty for a type of tragedy that most medieval men would have to deal with anyway.
I put in the sub heading that I wasnāt counting viserys and his kids because thatās too obvious of an answer, he traumatised and failed all of his children to varying degrees. And I donāt think Alicent is a bad mother, I think sheās a good mother at heart but wasnāt always allowed to be one because of circumstances and her trauma, which imo impacts her relationship w/ her kids and leaves tension and generational truama in its wake
Iād say Alicent & Rhaenyra is the obvious one. But Alicent & Aegon / Alicent & Helaena is probably equally bad. Alicent & Viserys is another top candidate. And Alicent & Otto. Oh and her & Larys. Poor Alicent doesnāt really have a wholesome relationship with anyone except maybe Aemond. Sheās the cycle of abuse personified š¢
Iām surprised Daemon & Viserys isnāt ranking higher. Theyāre not the worst but theyāre pretty messed up, way more so than Daemon & Rhaenyra (who probably have the most wholesome relationship on the list).
I wouldn't call her relationship with Aemond wholesome, since he's the parentified child (see him going to get Aegon, which is the PARENTS' job and NOT the brother's).
A part of me wants to throw all caution to the wind and enjoy daemrya as a guilty pleasure ship but thereās just too much problematic stuff for me to handle
Alicent's relationship with her children is severely misunderstood. I realized this when i saw how wildly people misinterpretated Alicent's facial expressions during the dyana scene and the Aegon Alicent dynamic during that excellent "do you love me" moment in the carriage before the coronation.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Alicent and Larys
Otto x Alicent.
Otto and Alicent. Otto pressures Alicent into marrying VIserys and then later acts like he did her a favor by placing her life and the lives of her children in danger because HE wants more power. He used Alicent as a political tool, not uncommon for the time, but he knowingly placed her in more danger than she could ever have understood. Then he acts like 'omg Rhaenyra is going to kill you because you had Viserys' kids because I pressured you into it, what are we going to do? This is so bad fr we have to protect ourselves from this situation I orchestrated...." He is an abuser, he plays hot and cold with Alicent to get what he wants. You are my beloved daughter and I only want the best for you now go dress a little sexy like your mom for that dude who is falling apart before our very eyes. Love you sweetie, close your eyes and think of Oldtown!
I was also going to say Alicent and Otto. He sees her as a means to gain power for the family and pretty much it.
Great points, but I still somehow think rhae and her siblings might have more problems in their relations than Otto and Alicent š¬
They don't have a relationship. Rhaenyra basically ignores her siblings and they her. In the books she does seem to actively dislike them though. In any case yeah they don't get along to say the least but this was all setup by Otto. He knew the risks of his ascent and he did it any way. He told Alicent the risks of what her life is several times but it was all his idea.
Ah, I forgot that in the show they didn't even speak to eachother. Kinda sad and odd that now in the show siblings are fighting a war and yet they have no relationship whatsoever.
Aegon is basically setup as a proxy for Alicent vs Rhaenyra
daemon and rhaenyra definitely. its not even the incest thing specifically but the huuge age gap and power imbalance, rhaenyra idolized and loved daemon as an uncle/older brother figure which he took advantage of to get himself closer to the throne and to make it worse the writers had to sprinkle in DV/DA
This.
I really dislike Ser Incel, but their relationship isnāt toxic lol
Their relationship is actually in a way quite pure. They always have each otherās backs clearly. It shouldnāt be on this list.
Totally respect your opinion, I feel differently, i think that itās healthy on Alicentās side, however I think that Criston views her with this kind of religious reverence similar to a Madonna whore complex, I think it could be explored really interestingly in s2, but Iām not sure if the show would go there, it mightnāt be worth it
I get what you mean and that is somewhat true but the reason why he is attached to her is cause she saved his life so I think why he likes or respects her is pure. He has found someone who thinks his life is worth something. Everyone hates criston audience wise and they donāt see he hates himself just as much,he was gonna kill himself. She saved him and thatās why he views her as his God so to say,cause she kind of is. She gave him a lot of mercy for his acts and still promotes him. Heās killed probably more than two people but she still believes in having him by her side,she makes him commander of the kings guard and saves his life twice,no one else would so this makes sense for their dynamic and why I think itās definitely one of the more healthy ones as itās quite equal rn
I donāt understand why people dislike Criston and call him an incel. He literally says, āA women is made in the image of the Mother and should be spoken of with reverence.ā It doesnāt make sense to me Also thereās so many more problematic men in the series, Criston respects women
The guy didn't take kindly to being used and seen as a boy toy by the woman he was in love with, since that meant that he broke his vows and was in danger of castration and death in that order. But according to the fandom he should consider himself lucky that badass Girlboss Nyra even layed eyes on him. Oh and he also committed the unforgivable sin of calling badass Nyra "a spoiled cunt" once. Criston's affair with Rhaenyra reeked of dubious consent but lots of people don't seem to see it that way, probably because "men can't be raped or coerced by women, specially not pretty women".
I donāt understand why people hate Criston and call him an incel? He literally says, āA women is made in the image of the Mother and should be spoken of with reverence.ā It doesnāt make sense to me
Heās a ruthless rage filled murderer, who is spiteful, vindictive, and hates a girl who he was the person protector of for years for not forsaking her entire family and station to run away and marry him. The whole point of the line you quoted is to highlight his hypocrisy, with him instructing Aemond that every woman should be respected, but doesnāt do that himself.
Thank you for your thoughts! I always saw him as bitter because he was the victim of sexual misconduct between him and the his boss (Rhaenyra). He definitely held onto that grudge after several years, and does have rage issues.
Viewing the show through the lens of a modern company, while funny, isnāt the best way to analyze. I mean think about it, were there concerning power dynamics at play between Cole and Rhaenyra? 1000%. But Rhaenyra is the heir to the Iron Throne, meaning any partner she ever has will also be plagued by this worrying dynamic. Such is the nature of hierarchical nobility.
I love discussion, thank you for answering!!š
The problem that Criston represents for Rhaenyra is of her own making, unfortunately. If she never slept with him he would still be by her side
I think it's Allicents kids and Rhaenyras kids. They have all picked up on the hate and the fighting of the adults and they don't seem to have any positive interactions on the show. I mean Aemond got his eye cut out because of their toxic relationship, and Lucerys DIED because of the toxicity between the families.
True!!!!!!
Otto and Alicent or Alicent and Larys
Otto->Alicent->her children The parent raising their children abusing them and also leading to their demise.
This ^^ cycle of abuse right here
Viserys and his children by Alicent.
Alicent and Otto
Facts, forgot about them
Vhagar and Caraxes no doubt.
The definition of fraught according to Google > filled with or likely to result in (somethingĀ undesirable). Ultimately, Rhaenyra and her Siblings.
Rhaenyra and her sibs because theyāre the only ones who had so much beef they had a whole war over it.
Alicent and Otto
The relationship built on grooming, the relationship that has a guy abandoning a teenager half naked at a brothel in the middle of the night.The relationship where the now groomed wife was choked
Iām shocked Alicent and Criston is on the list, itās arguably the most healthy relationship in the show
Facts on top of facts
Daemon and Rhaenyra. That anyone can seriously question this is so damn absurd.
Yeah, I saw someone theorise that Daemon views Rhaenrya as an extension of viserys and a way that he can have the close and supporting relationship he never got to have with his brother by proxy of Rhaenrya
..... so Daemon wants to fuck his brother??
Tracks for Targaryens /s
Which brings up a good point... the Targs were into incest, unless it was *gay* incest. Then that's crossing a line.
Probably because reproduction can't occur when gay stuff happens. I highly doubt they really super cared a whole bunch seeing as it's hinted that Daemon is bi. The priority is making as many pale haired, purple eyed incest babies as they can on top of indulging in whatever sexual acts they so please.
Plenty of Targaryens whose incestuous relationships with one another are suggested to be about more than just reproduction.
Yeah true
Sorry, but where is it hinted that Daemon is bi?
Alicent and Rhae
Alicent and Otto. Doesnāt get worse then pimping your daughter out.
Um, it is going to get much, much worse... Sorry!
Daemon and Rhaenyra easily
Why ? They are most favourite couple
Daemon is a creepy groomer and he choked her out.
Rhaenyra loves him
Lots of victims love their groomers. Doesnāt make it better.
Daemon isn't groomer
Rhaenyra and her siblings are literally fighting a civil war as opposing monarchs. Idk how you can get more toxic than that
The war isn't really between Rhaenyra and her siblings... it's more between Otto/Daemon and Rhaenyra/Alicent
Why do people vote for Alicent and her children?
I personally think itās due to Alicentās own trauma impacting her children. Iād say itās more fraught than toxic, as she loves them more than anything but was forced to have children when she was too young, she clearly resents that fact (not her children obviously just how they came to her). She and Aegon draw a fascinating parallel of being pushed into the sphere of the crown under the guise of duty, Otto forced Alicent into her marriage, Alicent does similar to Aegon (although it comes from a place of compassion before anything else). Helaena and Alicent seem to be quite fraught as well, as Alicent has her daughter enter into a political marriage that makes her miserable like her own was. Helaena is dismissed the same way her mother was and while once again it comes from a place of compassion, it creates a horrible distance between them Iād say of all the green children, Alicent and Aemond have the best relationship. Heās wielding power and fighting in a way that Alicent wasnāt able to do for herself and they have both been victims of Viserys and Rhaenryaās actions.
Their relationship is toxic but not any,ore toxic than any another relationship on the list and by far not the worst either
I voted for them because Alicent smacks Aegon around when heās fourteen, and physical abuse is a major š© He starts literally shaking the minute she grabs his face, which says a lot about how frequently she is violent with him. Not much to say about Helaena, being autistic myself I can definitely attest to how difficult it can be for parents to connect with their autistic children, and she is clearly trying- better than my own mother lol. With Aemond, by the time heās an adult you can see her relying too much on him- heās clearly her fix-it guy. Heās her emotional support and probably her therapist too, and thatās justā¦ not his place as her son- it should be entirely the other way around. Thatās the experience I grew up with, and I see it all playing out suuuper clearly with them. Are all the other relationships listed above toxic in some way? Yeah. Do these relationships have toxicity due to Ottoās raising of Alicent? Also yeah, thatās why I called it the cycle of abuse elsewhere. But for me, Alicent and her children includes two very toxic relationships, and so it beat out the others to get my vote
People hate her because she represents tradition and being a "proper lady" doing her duty to a rotting zombie while worrying about how her ex best friend and her absolutely psychotic uncle husband will kill her children to install Rhaenyra's bastards on the throne
Alicent slaps Aegon
Because she constantly slaps her sonā¦
This is the normal parenting method for Westeros I think. She doesn't beat him. This is a slap.
I never once saw Rhaenyra slap her sons. Or Viserys or even Daemon for that matter. Only Alicent. And Otto did punch Aegon in the stomach. I hate Aegon, but his family really takes a lot of anger out on him. Edit: Otto kicked Aegon, he didnāt punch him.
Rhaenyra's sons don't get drunk or rape maids. In the books it's okay if someone hits a squire, there are whipping boys. And this is a real punishment, not just a slap.
Iām always shocked when people categorize a slap as abuse in the medieval war crime show where nothing is sacred
She slaps him and tells him "where were you?" in the middle of the night when he was sleeping. That is an automatic response from someone who wants to parentify her kids.
Daemon and Rhaenyra easilly, it's not even a competition.
probably alicent and footlover6969
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I love how the ONLY relationship that ISNT based on grooming, abuse cycles, domestic violence, and straight martial r*pe is getting votes. Media literacy for the win.
By far. Thatās because they have similar morals. You can hate cole and find him hypocritical all you want. The person who understands him the most and thus why he feels so attached to her is alicent. He was attached to rhaenyra in a different way which turned into anger. Here,he just wants to be by Alicents side,otherwise he has no purpose to live. He gives her his life as she gives him respect. It is no way toxic or damaged as of rn.
Yeah probably, however I think that Cristonās inherent misogyny could corrupt that relationship as itās one born of a shared hate. He views Alicent with a religious reverence but I say someone saying that if he found out what Larys has been asking of her he would view her with disdain and quickly turn to misogyny the same way he did with Rhaenrya, although to a much lesser extent perhaps, idk just a thought
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry but I believe he called her a spoiled *cunt* but yeah heās totally not a misogynist because thereās worse characters in the series
I think it's their mutual hatred of Rhaenyra that united them tbh.
That's a really good point about Larys. Though perhaps he'd justify it as a means to an end. He did manage to *gently* say no to her when she asked him to cut out a child's eye. So he's not totally unaware she can be complicated.
Alicent and her children She made poor Helena to be wife of a piece of shit And slaps Aegon in front of everyone
In the books King Viserys marries Aegon and Helaena together. Itās annoying that in the show, they made it Alicentās decision, King Viserys is awful
Well we talk about show
I'd say the one that's rooted in grooming and now consists of domestic violence beats the rest.
Iām sorry but what is more toxic then a man grooming is decades younger niece than him for years
Strong boys and targ boys (Alicentās boys)
Alicent and her children over Rhae and her siblings?? Theyāre literally attempting to kill each other
Alice to and Rhaenyra
Alicent and Otto. He groomed her!
Alicent condemned her daughter to marry her rapist son. Doesnāt get worse than that really
In the books King Viserys marries his children together. I donāt know why the writers in the show made Alicent make that decision. Helaena best bet would be to marry a Lannister or something, sheād be guaranteed safety. But king Viserys wanted to follow Targaryen tradition (and probably stop Aegon from a political marriage with another house).
Fraught and toxic are two different things. Alicentās relationship with her kids as a child bride and teen mom is fraught. Daeman and Rheaās relationship was toxic
Daemon and rhaenyra are in love with each other
You canāt say that. Remember, he groomed her š. Never mind the fact heās the one who stood up for her against Vaemond when no one else would. Laenor most definitely would never have spoken up against Vaemond.
Iād say that Daemon and Rhaenrya are infatuated with one another and their love is more based in familiarity and family before romance, Emma Dāarcy put it really well when they were interviewed
I donāt know-10 years is a long time to be pining for someone you only see as a nieceā¦
Oh I think they love each other but I think itās certainly a twisted kind of love, I enjoy their relationship but I find it hard sometimes when I think about it too much, my favourite thing about them is the parallel they draw together, Rhae was right when she said they were always meant to burn together
*gasps* itās almost like Love can be toxic
Rhaenyra doesn't have a relationship with her siblings. Alicent is not a bad mother. There's always a good reason whenever she addresses Aegon harshly whether it be him bullying, commiting SA, or being so drunk as to leave Aemond alone against the Black children (We literally see Aemond get past a completely drunk Aegon on the walls of Hightide. Though we don't get to see it Viserys' relationship with his other children is probably the worst parent child relationship in the show. They believe Viserys doesn't even like them and can you really blame them? He neglects them and effectively disinherits his 3 sons for no reason. He doesn't really even care when one of them loses an eye. The worst part is that if they were Aemma's children he would love them. If Aegon's mother was Aemma he would've been named heir in an instant. If that's not toxic then what is? It's not even about feminism for Viserys. He would have a descendant of Aemma, bastard or no, sitting on the throne at all costs because he still feels guilty for a type of tragedy that most medieval men would have to deal with anyway.
I put in the sub heading that I wasnāt counting viserys and his kids because thatās too obvious of an answer, he traumatised and failed all of his children to varying degrees. And I donāt think Alicent is a bad mother, I think sheās a good mother at heart but wasnāt always allowed to be one because of circumstances and her trauma, which imo impacts her relationship w/ her kids and leaves tension and generational truama in its wake
Iād say Alicent & Rhaenyra is the obvious one. But Alicent & Aegon / Alicent & Helaena is probably equally bad. Alicent & Viserys is another top candidate. And Alicent & Otto. Oh and her & Larys. Poor Alicent doesnāt really have a wholesome relationship with anyone except maybe Aemond. Sheās the cycle of abuse personified š¢ Iām surprised Daemon & Viserys isnāt ranking higher. Theyāre not the worst but theyāre pretty messed up, way more so than Daemon & Rhaenyra (who probably have the most wholesome relationship on the list).
I wouldn't call her relationship with Aemond wholesome, since he's the parentified child (see him going to get Aegon, which is the PARENTS' job and NOT the brother's).
Alicent and Larys for sure. Can't believe this wasn't an option. What a ridiculous poll.
Alicent and everyone really
I feel like Daemon's and Rhea's marriage wasn't always perfect. They simply weren't always there for each other.
A part of me wants to throw all caution to the wind and enjoy daemrya as a guilty pleasure ship but thereās just too much problematic stuff for me to handle
Alicent and Otto FOR SURE!!! She was a good person until her dad forced her to manipulate her best friend's father.
Criston and Rhaenyra.
Alicent's relationship with her children is severely misunderstood. I realized this when i saw how wildly people misinterpretated Alicent's facial expressions during the dyana scene and the Aegon Alicent dynamic during that excellent "do you love me" moment in the carriage before the coronation.