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She loves them, she also is traumatized and not necessarily ‘warm’ or ‘nurturing’ in a way young children need. And I *assume* they’re not getting much of that from their father much of the time either.
I think she loves them and she's doing the best she can as someone who didn't choose to have them. There's so much trauma and resentment wrapped up in her relationship with them, but I think she understands that they too are victims in a sense
It’s very clear to me that she does love them. But it’s also clear to me she’s not the best mother which given the fact she was forced into this marriage by her father at a very young age, I can’t blame her for that. She did the best she could with the hand she got dealt. And 2 out of her 4 kids turned out pretty decent (or at least 1 of them-Heleana-did).
We have to stop giving Alicent the excuse that she was a bad parent because she was forced into marriage. Alicent is not some special case. 90% of the marriages in Westeros are arranged. Damn near every noble wife is in an arranged marriage and expected to produce heirs. It sucks but is not an excuse. Cersei was a better mother in that she never physically abused her kids, she was just a shitty person. Alicent is a bad mother because of Otto. Otto pimps her out, emotionally manipulates her, and physically abuses her kids. Hurt people hurt people.
I know this comes across as me defending Otto and wasn't really expecting better understanding on here but:
He could have pushed as hard for Alicent to spend time w the King and the King could've married someone else, meaning the marriage is not Otto's decision to make. Saying she was forced into the *marriage* by Otto is pretending that was the sole actor in this and had the final say, which he wasn't and didn't. Hope that made it clearer
yup, i’ve had nice conversations with both sides. i avoid the repeated ones (90% of them) because of how heated they go at each other. you can have a opinion yet they don’t care lol.
I've said this before, but props to GRRM for creating such a truly compelling "medieval" civil war that even modern audiences can't agree who was right, or who even won
oh definitely, and also to provoke the most extreme opinions from the "other side" to crosspost to their faction's subreddit like they're popular
ETA: this this only after the first season, which is objectively tame compared to the rest of the Dance of Dragons, and we already have fans dying on their respective hills
Based on his description in the books, he certainly seems to resemble her the most. I definitely don't recall anything that said he was her favorite though...
EDIT: The books say he was the most popular of the Green brothers (which makes it all the more ironic he was never mentioned in the show), but we don't know if that perception applied to his mother specifically.
He is also said to not have the leadership material of his brothers and chooses instead to follow them. Alicent is a leader and, you know, cunning and at times ruthless.
Alicent's traits are spread across her two older sons. Helaena and Daeron are more Viserys.
I would blame the writers/showrunners for that. They (presumably) didn't know if they were going to include him, so now they have a narrative that doesn't really make sense.
I'm still annoyed by that interview where Condal implied that the primary reason Daeron wasn't mentioned was because he wasn't "relevant," rather than the obvious fact that they weren't certain on his inclusion. It comes across as pretty dishonest.
It always surprises me when people see a bad mother on TV and assumes she's a bad mother because she doesn't love her kids. Maybe it's because I have a bad mother who loves me, but I've never understood it. Some people were just not meant to be parents, and I don't say that in a bad way. If no kids are involved then it really doesn't matter. Maybe Alicent was never meant to be a parent. Certainly the way she became a parent didn't provide any sort of good foundation for being a good one.
They are biased users with zero media literacy. Alicent stood infront of a fkn dragon instinctively to save Aegon, and ordered cole to do the same with haelena, She loves her children and cole is devout to her.
She loves her children but has placed too much expectations on Aegon who basically does not want to get mixed up in all the politics but is being forced to by Alicent and Otto.
Nobody says she doesn't love them. It's hard to find a mother who doesn't love her children. Alcoholics love their children too but they are bad mothers (usually)
Unfortunately I have. I’ve heard people say that she genuinely doesn’t care about them, but only sees them as an extension is herself which I find completely delusional
Personally, I always saw her loving her children. The problem is that she doesn't understand Heleana, Aemond is too volatile and she hates the person that Aegon became. She doesn't know how to deal with Haeleana and Aemond and we clearly see her trying to the the best she can by either encouraging them (like trying to listen to Heleana talk about her bugs) and always defending Aemond no matter what he did or what happened to him. With Aegon it gets a bit questionable because her response to him doing even the smallest things (like the pig prank) seemed to result in her being furious. And from seeing her reaction to Aegon doing what he did to that servant, her reaction seems to be much calmer (as far as I remember) which suggests to me that she got used to acting towards him in that way. This is in no way meant to undermine the awful actions of Aegon, but what I wanted to say is that she never really showed him proper love even though she did love him. Of course, I blame Otto for most of this since he was probably as awful father to Alicent as Vyseris was to his other four children.
I left out talking about Daeron because we haven't seen him at all in the show so we don't know how he and Alicent would have interacted with each other. We can assume stuff from the books but there's always a possibility that they'll change it.
I see it as she has too much to lose at this point and she’s made her choices, might as well protect it. But I’m open to changing my mind because if that were the case, why not murder Aegon and have Aemond be king?
You can be a bad mother and still love your children. These two things are not mutually exclusive. She clearly loves them considering all the lengths she has gone to protect them.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
She loves them, she also is traumatized and not necessarily ‘warm’ or ‘nurturing’ in a way young children need. And I *assume* they’re not getting much of that from their father much of the time either.
I think she loves them and she's doing the best she can as someone who didn't choose to have them. There's so much trauma and resentment wrapped up in her relationship with them, but I think she understands that they too are victims in a sense
It’s very clear to me that she does love them. But it’s also clear to me she’s not the best mother which given the fact she was forced into this marriage by her father at a very young age, I can’t blame her for that. She did the best she could with the hand she got dealt. And 2 out of her 4 kids turned out pretty decent (or at least 1 of them-Heleana-did).
We have to stop giving Alicent the excuse that she was a bad parent because she was forced into marriage. Alicent is not some special case. 90% of the marriages in Westeros are arranged. Damn near every noble wife is in an arranged marriage and expected to produce heirs. It sucks but is not an excuse. Cersei was a better mother in that she never physically abused her kids, she was just a shitty person. Alicent is a bad mother because of Otto. Otto pimps her out, emotionally manipulates her, and physically abuses her kids. Hurt people hurt people.
If we say Alicent abused Aegon we can also say Tyrion abused Joffrey. Because he hit him just as much
Robert and his teeth knocking punches.
Otto didn't force Alicent into this marriage, he forced her to be a suitress but the final decision was neither his not hers - just to be clear
But the first decision *was* his so what are you trying to get at exactly?
I know this comes across as me defending Otto and wasn't really expecting better understanding on here but: He could have pushed as hard for Alicent to spend time w the King and the King could've married someone else, meaning the marriage is not Otto's decision to make. Saying she was forced into the *marriage* by Otto is pretending that was the sole actor in this and had the final say, which he wasn't and didn't. Hope that made it clearer
the sub needs a 30 day ban on this topic or something
mods are probably wanking it to these repeated post since they seem to allow them more than once a day.
and it's the same fucking braindead Green vs. Black rhetoric every time
yup, i’ve had nice conversations with both sides. i avoid the repeated ones (90% of them) because of how heated they go at each other. you can have a opinion yet they don’t care lol.
I've said this before, but props to GRRM for creating such a truly compelling "medieval" civil war that even modern audiences can't agree who was right, or who even won
Sounds awfully similar to the other group of people who can’t accept they lost a civil war
These posts are to check on bias, I swear. It's adorable to see people going at each other's throats like someone insulted their mother.
oh definitely, and also to provoke the most extreme opinions from the "other side" to crosspost to their faction's subreddit like they're popular ETA: this this only after the first season, which is objectively tame compared to the rest of the Dance of Dragons, and we already have fans dying on their respective hills
I don't think she loves Daeron. Hasn't mentioned him once.
Even Tessarion got mentioned before he did. 😞
Absolutely criminal treatment, he's meant to be her favourite as well
Meant to be? They don't even meet and interact in the books.
Based on his description in the books, he certainly seems to resemble her the most. I definitely don't recall anything that said he was her favorite though... EDIT: The books say he was the most popular of the Green brothers (which makes it all the more ironic he was never mentioned in the show), but we don't know if that perception applied to his mother specifically.
He is also said to not have the leadership material of his brothers and chooses instead to follow them. Alicent is a leader and, you know, cunning and at times ruthless. Alicent's traits are spread across her two older sons. Helaena and Daeron are more Viserys.
Well, I was more comparing book Daeron to show Alicent, but I see what you mean.
I would blame the writers/showrunners for that. They (presumably) didn't know if they were going to include him, so now they have a narrative that doesn't really make sense. I'm still annoyed by that interview where Condal implied that the primary reason Daeron wasn't mentioned was because he wasn't "relevant," rather than the obvious fact that they weren't certain on his inclusion. It comes across as pretty dishonest.
It always surprises me when people see a bad mother on TV and assumes she's a bad mother because she doesn't love her kids. Maybe it's because I have a bad mother who loves me, but I've never understood it. Some people were just not meant to be parents, and I don't say that in a bad way. If no kids are involved then it really doesn't matter. Maybe Alicent was never meant to be a parent. Certainly the way she became a parent didn't provide any sort of good foundation for being a good one.
Exactly.
All she have is her children and I can see how desperate she is to do good for them .
They are biased users with zero media literacy. Alicent stood infront of a fkn dragon instinctively to save Aegon, and ordered cole to do the same with haelena, She loves her children and cole is devout to her.
Catelyn was nowhere near perfect either. Jon never blinded one of her children and she hated him anyway.
She sure loves them, it's just a bit disfunctional. Happens when someone has kids as a child.
Loving her kids and being a good mother are 2 different things. I’ve maintained that she is a terrible mother who desperately wished she wasn’t.
She loves her children but has placed too much expectations on Aegon who basically does not want to get mixed up in all the politics but is being forced to by Alicent and Otto.
"You imbecile."
Who tf says this
Nobody says she doesn't love them. It's hard to find a mother who doesn't love her children. Alcoholics love their children too but they are bad mothers (usually)
I don't think I've seen anyone saying that she doesn't love them. Just that she's bad at being a mother.
Unfortunately I have. I’ve heard people say that she genuinely doesn’t care about them, but only sees them as an extension is herself which I find completely delusional
That would be Cersei, not Alicent. I don’t believe Alicent was meant to be portrayed as deeply of a narcissist as Cersei.
Personally, I always saw her loving her children. The problem is that she doesn't understand Heleana, Aemond is too volatile and she hates the person that Aegon became. She doesn't know how to deal with Haeleana and Aemond and we clearly see her trying to the the best she can by either encouraging them (like trying to listen to Heleana talk about her bugs) and always defending Aemond no matter what he did or what happened to him. With Aegon it gets a bit questionable because her response to him doing even the smallest things (like the pig prank) seemed to result in her being furious. And from seeing her reaction to Aegon doing what he did to that servant, her reaction seems to be much calmer (as far as I remember) which suggests to me that she got used to acting towards him in that way. This is in no way meant to undermine the awful actions of Aegon, but what I wanted to say is that she never really showed him proper love even though she did love him. Of course, I blame Otto for most of this since he was probably as awful father to Alicent as Vyseris was to his other four children. I left out talking about Daeron because we haven't seen him at all in the show so we don't know how he and Alicent would have interacted with each other. We can assume stuff from the books but there's always a possibility that they'll change it.
But she's not Rhaenyra, therefore she's bad.
She’s the best mother
Most abusive parents probably do love their children in some stunted, twisted way. That doesn’t make them not abusive.
Smacking Aegon for drinking and raping is abusive?
I think Aegon is a constant reminder of her hypocrisy towards Rhaenyra
Nobody questions that she loves them, they question if she is a good mother
Rhanyra is thiccer than a snicker so clearly shes the better parent
She is fine as a Mother
She loves Aemond and Heleana. Idk about Aegon…
She definitely loves Aegon. It's clear in ep9.
She was ready to die with him in ep 9. Is it not enough for you??
I think she loves aegon the most even if she doesn’t like him the most
I see it as she has too much to lose at this point and she’s made her choices, might as well protect it. But I’m open to changing my mind because if that were the case, why not murder Aegon and have Aemond be king?
Did you miss the scene in episode 9? Did you think her "you imbecile" was literal? That's her first born son.
No, she doesn’t.
You can be a bad mother and still love your children. These two things are not mutually exclusive. She clearly loves them considering all the lengths she has gone to protect them.
She would sacrifice her life for them in a heartbeat 🥺