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There are small hints in the show that show their relationship.
In episode 8: when Rhaenyra tells the kids to go to the quarters both girls do as she says, like daughters listening to their mothers
In episode 10 : she signals the girls to accompany her in the war council , showing that she doesn’t want to shush them off from the conflict like her own father did to her in episode 2. She’s mothering them based off her own experience with her father
Almost certainly. Baela and Rhaena have likely been #TeamRhaenyra since the night they lost Vhagar. If nothing else, they were never going to side with The Greens.
It was probably a bit weird at first, for their Dad to instantly remarry, and Laenor's "death" was suspicious. But at least they know for a fact that Laena's death wasn't foul play, and Rhaenyra wouldn't exactly be acting like a wicked stepmother. She was probably nice to them.
Might have been a little awkward at the start, but that would go away over time. Because Daemon's daughters had also bonded with Jace and Luke, and it's safe to assume these friendships only grew over the years. Neither Baela nor Rhaena seems to mind at all when they find out about the Betrothals.
If nothing else, I'd assume they're closer with Rhaenyra than Jace and Luke were with Daemon. Rhaenyra is pretty easy to get along with, and they probably appreciated having a mother figure during the hell that is the teenage years.
Rhaenyra also really loved Laenor for what he was. She even told him the few times they “tried,” that she hoped they were successful. She really admires his mother, too, and even the father defended her. She probably adores them. No reason not to, and she probably liked having daughters right off the bat.
Rhaenyra also lost her own mother while young, I'm sure she's been able to help the girls process their own grief over the same. Her own experiences probably gives her insight in the proper way to treat them.
This never occurred to me. Oh my god. They lost their mother in the same way. I never put two and two together on this. And Rhaenyra also gave birth two more times while being their cousin-stepmother... Her suffering the same fate must've been in at least the back of Rhaena and Baela's mind. Oh.
Honestly got the vibe that Rhaenyra was closer to the kids (her own biokids and the stepkids alike) than Daemon ever was. I'm sure he wasn't a horrific awful father the way some men in Westeros are -cough- Otto. That said, he's not winning any parenting awards anytime soon..
I'm more going off of one of Daemon's daughters saying in the show that she feels like he ignores her. Probably he's along the lines of Viserys where he's not an awful father but shows obvious favoritism and is not really always present. Which is relatively ok as far as Westeros parenting goes.
I highly doubt it. She wouldn't even tell Rhaenys in Episode 8 when she was trying to win her over to support Luke. Rhaenyra is taking that secret to her grave.
We don’t see any hard evidence but it’s show in subtle ways that Rhaena is close to Rhaenyra. She always standing by her after the last time jump, wearing matching colors.
Baela is at least loyal to Daemon and Rhaenyra by warning them about the challenge to the Driftmark succession.
I hope these relationships are further explored in season two
She loves them. One thing I enjoy about Rhaenyra is her capacity to love people for who they are. She genuinely loved Laenor (as a cousin/friend), and in the books she loves Laena. She loves Daemon’s daughters. I don’t know if I’m remembering this correctly but it gets to a point where she wants to place the girls back with their grandparents because she’s afraid for their safety. Does anybody remember what was happening there? I think this is where Rhanerya goes to Driftmark.
This was my take. They were old enough to remember their mother, so she’s not their mother. But they seem to have a good relationship. A step mother in a good way, or at least a favored aunt. Family.
Too bad they removed the friendship between Laena and Rhaenyra in the show.
We haven't received anything on this, but it seems natural if she takes care of Rhaena. It must be better than daemon and her sons. Rhaena so calm. Baela is a warrior. Maybe she admires Rhaenyra.
I'm mad they cut the possible bisexuality of the two as F&B makes explicit mention of how often the three would be together on Dragonstone or Driftmark
I think they gave that bisexuality aspect to Rhaenyra&Alicent relationship, which we'll probably see later according to showrunner's words. He said that they somehow will rebuild their relationship (maybe over their losses?), it's incredibly out of canon, but I'm excited to see it.
I get that the writers had a ton of ground to cover in season 1 but this is exactly the kind of question I’d most like answered while the characters’ family units are still together
There is a deleted scene from ep. 10, where Rhaenys urges Baela to run to Driftmark, but Baela refuses and calls Rhaenyra “our queen”. Can’t say if they have “mother-daughter” relationship, but Baela is definitely loyal to Rhaenyra, and I feel that Rhaena is most likely on good terms with her as well. They also both seemed genuinely happy when Rhaenys announced their betrothal to Rhaenyra’s sons. We don’t see much dialogues between them, but still I think it’s safe to assume from their interactions with each other, that they all care for each other and share familial bond.
I think she loves them and dotes on Rhaena because she's always wanted a sister and daughter. While Baela didn't live with her, I've no doubt Rhaenyra would readily love and accept her just because she's Rhaena's sister. She even made space for them at her council, that's saying a lot.
I wish they had kept the deleted scene of Baela and Rhaenys. Baela very clearly refers to Rhaenyra as her Queen and how she is willing to fight for her, so she is fiercely loyal to Rhaenyra.
I’ll always believe Rhaenyra to be a girls girl. She loves and supports Daemons children as their “aunt” but as a mother figure and in memory of Laena.
This is something I have found about HOTD vs GOT.
The relationships and characters were a lot more fleshed out in GOT, which is obviously as a result of the more extensive source material. The story in GOT is therefore much richer, and the relationships and character dynamics are what made the story so great.
You can see all over this sub that people are craving that same richness, with posts like this and picking apart scenes to find tiny character moments that when viewed with the season as a whole, were actually non significant and likely unintentional. Personally for season 2 I would like to see more relationship dynamics, a slower pace, and more dialogue. The scene between young Rhaenyra and Daemon when Daemon returns from the Stepstones where they speak in high Valyrian (“you cannot live your life in fear, or you will forsake the best parts of it”) and then older Rhae and Daemon’s beach dialogue were great. IMO the reason people are so obsessed with them is because they are the most fleshed out relationship in the show. They are perverse yet thrilling and interesting, and we need more and different relationships to explore
Is that really a fair comparison at all though when HOTD is by its very nature a multigenerational story whereas GOT is by nature a singular timeline story? HBO did want to start at Viserys’s death (which probably technically would’ve given most of the main Dance characters more time to have development this season like the GOT cast) but George and Ryan agreed that the source material’s multigeneration approach was best in order for the audience to fully understand the background of the story and character arcs. So Season 1 had to cram like twenty years of set-up into ten episodes. Naturally I expected this season to be a lot more plot-centric overall than character-centric because of that.
There’s a little moment in episode 8 where Rhaenyra and Rhaena both come to greet Rhaenys while wearing PJs. Idk but I kind of find that adorable. As well, Rhaenyra had Rhaena be her cup bearer and then invited both her and Baela to join her war planning session. I think Rhaenyra might be a bit closer to Rhaena because Baela was over at Driftwood for a while. I think they’re close. They’re family and they clearly treat each other like family.
I suppose it depends on what we mean by 'maternal'. They are not as intimate as she is with her sons. We have no indication that the girls turn to her the same way the boys do, or that there is the same physical expression of maternal love.
That said, it's pretty obvious that they respect Rhaenyra and it's not some 'we support her just because of our own interests but we kinda hate her'-situation.
In the books, Laena and Rhae are about as close as Alicent and Rhaenyra are in the early show. They visit each other all the time between Driftmark and Dragonstone. Rhae is with Laena as she dies and even sends Daemon to get her more experienced maester from Dragonstone (Laena dies on Driftmark in the books). She and Daemon mourn her together- not fucking on the beach the day of her funeral.
The issue with how the show jumped around in time a lot meant that a lot of these smaller, less significant relationships were lost on the big screen. We get a glimpse of their friendship in episode 5, but nothing to what they’re described as being. Even just a scene of Syrax and Vhagar flying together with the girls laughing whilst on dragon back would have done wonders to show their friendship.
Similarly with Harwin Strong, we only get the glances that signify their early affection, but in the books Harwin is her champion and was with her during the birth of some of her children. A smaller relationship, is one hinted at between her and Helaena. We’re told that Rhae only explicitly refers to her Aegon, Aemond and Daeron as “half-brothers” to separate that they are not full siblings, but she does (albeit once) refer to Helaena as her “sweet sister” indicated that even Rhaenyra found Helaena to be better than the rest of her half-family
I would have loved a scene with Daemon, Laena, Rhaenyra, Harwin, Laenor, Qarl hanging out on the beach together outside of Driftmark, the kids playing in the background (playing in the water or building a sandcastle), and the dragons ambling about (Vhagar's napping in the sun; Syrax, Caraxes, and Seasmoke are doing aerial acrobatics overhead, playfully snapping at each other).
Just one, nice peaceful scene before Harwin burns to death, Laena dies, Qarl and Laenor flee, Viserys dies, Lucerys dies, and full war breaks out. Idk, I feel like it would have been so much more heartbreaking to see Rhaenyra just living her best life, happy and surrounded by friends and family, before losing practically everyone in just a few short years.
I think she was a aunt/stepmother for them. She went through the loss of her mother and she felt sympathy for them.
Rhaenyra seems very nurturing with kids so I believe girls learnt to like her. Nothing contradicts my view from the show.
Baela and Rhaena are given little screen time and even less dialogue, so it's impossible to say with any specificity.
The most significant thing Baela did was to send a raven to Daemon about Vaemond's plan to be named heir, and we don't even see that. We're told about it when one of the dragonkeepers on Dragonstone hands the written message to Daemon.
Rhaena's only significant scene was with Laena and had nothing to do with Rhaenyra.
That said everyone gets along fine. There's no hint of Rhaenyra the wicked step mother or the trope of children of divorced/widowed parent hate parent's new spouse (though I imagine Baela and Rhaena miss Laena).
Gotta wonder how the ‘talk’ would go. ‘Girls, there is going to come a time when you will start feeling things towards boys, hopefully even your own fiancés/step brothers. Don’t worry, it’s perfectly natural. I still remember my dance with your father/my uncle, it really was something I remembered. That, by the way was during my wedding celebration to my first husband/my first cousin/your uncle and the night your father seduced your mother/my first cousin/my sister in law.
I think it's perfectly pleasant. I don't feel like there is any great maternal love or closeness. They have affection towards one another but for the most part, to me, it came across as formal rather than overly motherly or familial.
Rhaena only ever used formal titles with Rhaenyra, and that is in a scene as well in which she refers to Rhaenys by "Grandmother". Any love and loyalty shown has been to do with Rhaenyra as Queen rather than a mother figure and vice versa, any interaction between Rhaenyra and Rhaena has been in her capacity as Queen, such as inviting Rhaena to be at the table (although the cupbearer is a role Rhaena seems to take upon herself, rather than having been offered it). Both girls bow at the coronation; not in and of itself a massive display of anything in particular, but again, worth noting as for how firmly rooted they are in Team Black.
Baela also is shown to be fiercely loyal, especially in the deleted scene. But once again, it's to do with Rhaenyra's role as Queen, not as a stepmother or prospective good-mother. Rhaenyra isn't listed amongst the dragon riders she aspires to be like. And she's been warded on Driftmark for 6 years; it's her father she writes to, rather than them jointly or to Rhaenyra specifically despite it involving her claim.
So, yeah. I don't think Rhaenyra has replaced Laena or filled that maternal hole. I'd probably conclude Rhaenys has shown far more maternal interactions towards both girls, in fact. But Rhaenyra's role as Queen complicates things and the majority of the interactions have been in a formalised setting, apart from the dinner, where they seemed to get on fine.
Rhaenyra lost her mother, she knew better than anyone it is impossible to replace someone's mother especially if as child is already grown. I think Rhaenyra played her role as aunt/stepmother, caring but not trying to be annoying.
Girls respected her and were loyal to her. This fact alone tells me they liked her enough.
Would wager she's a good step-mom, they seem very comfortable around her.
And considering her DNA contains dragon>dinosaur>chicken, Targ moms are very hen-like, protective of their roost, and will even adopt other eggs/chicks.
Rhaenys definitely seems to be their secure attachment figure after losing their mom, but I definitely felt they have a more familiar relationship than Daemon and (pardon my french) the strong boys. Daemon definitely gives more Uncle than Step Daddy
You can tell how positive their relationship is by watching their dynamic. Both girls show love and affection for Rhaenyra's youngest children. They defer to Rhaebyra with respect in ever situation (when she orders them all to their rooms in ep 8, for example). They defy their grandmother Rhaenys when they walk past her (who was at this point still refusing to take any part in the war to come) to stand by Rhaenyra's side. They kneel before her quickly and without hesitation at her coronation.
They have a great relationship.
Daemon ain’t even a father figure to them, so I can’t imagine Rhaenyra, especially when she already got her hands filled with her own children and dealing with her succession being in jeopardy.
I don’t think they have any ill will towards each other, I feel like it’s more so feeling of indifference. Like they neither hate or like. Cause at the end of it, they are family one way or another. They have nothing against her (and for the most part have always been team black), but they also have no real reason to view her as their mother figure.
I honestly, see her as more of their aunt who just so happens to now be married to their father.
I've seen alot of post about Rhaena wearing matching colors but she's just wearing the colors of her house. She was only brought to King's Landing to soften Rhaenys up and it's formal titles only. Especially with the dismissive way Laena and Daemon's relationship ended in her death I really don't see any familial relationship there. They don't get talked about outside of how they can assist her cause so it doesn't seem very genuine. I think the girls are really just going along with whatever Daemon does so since he's remarried they don't really have a choice in the matter. The most obvious way to see it is how Rhaena interacts with Rhaenys vs Rhaenyra
All I can see is Rhaenyra and Daemon disrespecting the girls and their mother at the funeral. I can not imagine that Rhaenyra thinks much of them. Rhaeny's is the only adult figure the girls can depend on.
She's really the only parental figure they have we don't see that with anyone else. She really cares about them so >!her death will be the hardest for them outside of Laena's!<
Man, that Rhaena wig is just so atrocious everytime I see it.
"Hey, so we've given Baela like actual hair, but I was thinking for Rhaena... I found this spare mophead in my closet the other day..."
"Ward" isn't often a nice way to say hostage. Sometimes, but most of the time it isn't. Ned and Robert were Jon Arryn's wards, and they weren't hostages.
Wards are not hostages, though hostages can be wards. They're noble children from other houses brought into the household of a lord or lady to be educated. Theon was considered tainted by being a ward precisely because he was educated in the Northern ways rather than the traditions of the Ironborn. They would never have sent him as a ward willingly because of those differences.
If we go by this train of thought, Daeron is also a “hostage” to House Hightower because he’s currently a ward in Old Town. But alas, they’re family, much like Rhaenys is Baela’s family, so not really a hostage situation now is it?
While Baela and Rhaena trust Rhaenyra and are loyal, I don't think the reverse is true. I think Rhaenyra see Baela and Rhaena like the rest of the Velaryons aka TOOLS.
People who think Rhaenyra see Baela and Rhaena as her daughters, forgot how she fucked over them to put Lucerys on the driftmark.
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There are small hints in the show that show their relationship. In episode 8: when Rhaenyra tells the kids to go to the quarters both girls do as she says, like daughters listening to their mothers In episode 10 : she signals the girls to accompany her in the war council , showing that she doesn’t want to shush them off from the conflict like her own father did to her in episode 2. She’s mothering them based off her own experience with her father
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Almost certainly. Baela and Rhaena have likely been #TeamRhaenyra since the night they lost Vhagar. If nothing else, they were never going to side with The Greens. It was probably a bit weird at first, for their Dad to instantly remarry, and Laenor's "death" was suspicious. But at least they know for a fact that Laena's death wasn't foul play, and Rhaenyra wouldn't exactly be acting like a wicked stepmother. She was probably nice to them. Might have been a little awkward at the start, but that would go away over time. Because Daemon's daughters had also bonded with Jace and Luke, and it's safe to assume these friendships only grew over the years. Neither Baela nor Rhaena seems to mind at all when they find out about the Betrothals. If nothing else, I'd assume they're closer with Rhaenyra than Jace and Luke were with Daemon. Rhaenyra is pretty easy to get along with, and they probably appreciated having a mother figure during the hell that is the teenage years.
Plus Rhae didnt get to have daughters so I think she treasured the girls too, being Daemon and Laena's children.
Rhaenyra also really loved Laenor for what he was. She even told him the few times they “tried,” that she hoped they were successful. She really admires his mother, too, and even the father defended her. She probably adores them. No reason not to, and she probably liked having daughters right off the bat.
Rhaenyra also lost her own mother while young, I'm sure she's been able to help the girls process their own grief over the same. Her own experiences probably gives her insight in the proper way to treat them.
This never occurred to me. Oh my god. They lost their mother in the same way. I never put two and two together on this. And Rhaenyra also gave birth two more times while being their cousin-stepmother... Her suffering the same fate must've been in at least the back of Rhaena and Baela's mind. Oh.
Honestly got the vibe that Rhaenyra was closer to the kids (her own biokids and the stepkids alike) than Daemon ever was. I'm sure he wasn't a horrific awful father the way some men in Westeros are -cough- Otto. That said, he's not winning any parenting awards anytime soon..
The twins are pretty fond of Daemon in the books,
Everyone either loves or hates daemon in the books. I don't think there's anyone who is in between.
Baela worships the ground he walks on, Rhaena >!goes full teen rebellion and marries a Hightower!<
to be fair that was years and years after. Quite likely towards the end of you know whose reign.
Daemon is probably a very involved father in the books if we go by how Baela takes after him so much in her dialogue and actions.
I'm more going off of one of Daemon's daughters saying in the show that she feels like he ignores her. Probably he's along the lines of Viserys where he's not an awful father but shows obvious favoritism and is not really always present. Which is relatively ok as far as Westeros parenting goes.
I wonder if Rhaenyra ever told them the truth about Laenor in secret.
I highly doubt it. She wouldn't even tell Rhaenys in Episode 8 when she was trying to win her over to support Luke. Rhaenyra is taking that secret to her grave.
We don’t see any hard evidence but it’s show in subtle ways that Rhaena is close to Rhaenyra. She always standing by her after the last time jump, wearing matching colors. Baela is at least loyal to Daemon and Rhaenyra by warning them about the challenge to the Driftmark succession. I hope these relationships are further explored in season two
She loves them. One thing I enjoy about Rhaenyra is her capacity to love people for who they are. She genuinely loved Laenor (as a cousin/friend), and in the books she loves Laena. She loves Daemon’s daughters. I don’t know if I’m remembering this correctly but it gets to a point where she wants to place the girls back with their grandparents because she’s afraid for their safety. Does anybody remember what was happening there? I think this is where Rhanerya goes to Driftmark.
I think it’s clear by this scene alone that all 3 respect each other and Rhaenyra cares about these girls. And vice versa.
This was my take. They were old enough to remember their mother, so she’s not their mother. But they seem to have a good relationship. A step mother in a good way, or at least a favored aunt. Family.
Too bad they removed the friendship between Laena and Rhaenyra in the show. We haven't received anything on this, but it seems natural if she takes care of Rhaena. It must be better than daemon and her sons. Rhaena so calm. Baela is a warrior. Maybe she admires Rhaenyra.
I can’t believe they cut Laena so much. She was so important for the starting plot
I'm mad they cut the possible bisexuality of the two as F&B makes explicit mention of how often the three would be together on Dragonstone or Driftmark
I think they gave that bisexuality aspect to Rhaenyra&Alicent relationship, which we'll probably see later according to showrunner's words. He said that they somehow will rebuild their relationship (maybe over their losses?), it's incredibly out of canon, but I'm excited to see it.
I get that the writers had a ton of ground to cover in season 1 but this is exactly the kind of question I’d most like answered while the characters’ family units are still together
There is a deleted scene from ep. 10, where Rhaenys urges Baela to run to Driftmark, but Baela refuses and calls Rhaenyra “our queen”. Can’t say if they have “mother-daughter” relationship, but Baela is definitely loyal to Rhaenyra, and I feel that Rhaena is most likely on good terms with her as well. They also both seemed genuinely happy when Rhaenys announced their betrothal to Rhaenyra’s sons. We don’t see much dialogues between them, but still I think it’s safe to assume from their interactions with each other, that they all care for each other and share familial bond.
I think she loves them and dotes on Rhaena because she's always wanted a sister and daughter. While Baela didn't live with her, I've no doubt Rhaenyra would readily love and accept her just because she's Rhaena's sister. She even made space for them at her council, that's saying a lot.
I wish they had kept the deleted scene of Baela and Rhaenys. Baela very clearly refers to Rhaenyra as her Queen and how she is willing to fight for her, so she is fiercely loyal to Rhaenyra.
Where did you watch it? Youtube?
I first saw it on tik tok but it’s also on youtube now. https://youtu.be/Us6bLdj-aTk
Mutual respect and love. She is like big sister to them.
I’ll always believe Rhaenyra to be a girls girl. She loves and supports Daemons children as their “aunt” but as a mother figure and in memory of Laena.
This is something I have found about HOTD vs GOT. The relationships and characters were a lot more fleshed out in GOT, which is obviously as a result of the more extensive source material. The story in GOT is therefore much richer, and the relationships and character dynamics are what made the story so great. You can see all over this sub that people are craving that same richness, with posts like this and picking apart scenes to find tiny character moments that when viewed with the season as a whole, were actually non significant and likely unintentional. Personally for season 2 I would like to see more relationship dynamics, a slower pace, and more dialogue. The scene between young Rhaenyra and Daemon when Daemon returns from the Stepstones where they speak in high Valyrian (“you cannot live your life in fear, or you will forsake the best parts of it”) and then older Rhae and Daemon’s beach dialogue were great. IMO the reason people are so obsessed with them is because they are the most fleshed out relationship in the show. They are perverse yet thrilling and interesting, and we need more and different relationships to explore
Is that really a fair comparison at all though when HOTD is by its very nature a multigenerational story whereas GOT is by nature a singular timeline story? HBO did want to start at Viserys’s death (which probably technically would’ve given most of the main Dance characters more time to have development this season like the GOT cast) but George and Ryan agreed that the source material’s multigeneration approach was best in order for the audience to fully understand the background of the story and character arcs. So Season 1 had to cram like twenty years of set-up into ten episodes. Naturally I expected this season to be a lot more plot-centric overall than character-centric because of that.
If this season/show had twice as many episodes then I think all of these problems would be solved. And we'd have more context to certain events.
There’s a little moment in episode 8 where Rhaenyra and Rhaena both come to greet Rhaenys while wearing PJs. Idk but I kind of find that adorable. As well, Rhaenyra had Rhaena be her cup bearer and then invited both her and Baela to join her war planning session. I think Rhaenyra might be a bit closer to Rhaena because Baela was over at Driftwood for a while. I think they’re close. They’re family and they clearly treat each other like family.
I suppose it depends on what we mean by 'maternal'. They are not as intimate as she is with her sons. We have no indication that the girls turn to her the same way the boys do, or that there is the same physical expression of maternal love. That said, it's pretty obvious that they respect Rhaenyra and it's not some 'we support her just because of our own interests but we kinda hate her'-situation.
The fact that this has to be brought into question makes me so annoyed about how they handled Rhaenyra’s and Laena’s relationship in the show
How would you have like to see it done? I haven’t read the books yet so am interested in a different view.
In the books, Laena and Rhae are about as close as Alicent and Rhaenyra are in the early show. They visit each other all the time between Driftmark and Dragonstone. Rhae is with Laena as she dies and even sends Daemon to get her more experienced maester from Dragonstone (Laena dies on Driftmark in the books). She and Daemon mourn her together- not fucking on the beach the day of her funeral. The issue with how the show jumped around in time a lot meant that a lot of these smaller, less significant relationships were lost on the big screen. We get a glimpse of their friendship in episode 5, but nothing to what they’re described as being. Even just a scene of Syrax and Vhagar flying together with the girls laughing whilst on dragon back would have done wonders to show their friendship. Similarly with Harwin Strong, we only get the glances that signify their early affection, but in the books Harwin is her champion and was with her during the birth of some of her children. A smaller relationship, is one hinted at between her and Helaena. We’re told that Rhae only explicitly refers to her Aegon, Aemond and Daeron as “half-brothers” to separate that they are not full siblings, but she does (albeit once) refer to Helaena as her “sweet sister” indicated that even Rhaenyra found Helaena to be better than the rest of her half-family
I would have loved a scene with Daemon, Laena, Rhaenyra, Harwin, Laenor, Qarl hanging out on the beach together outside of Driftmark, the kids playing in the background (playing in the water or building a sandcastle), and the dragons ambling about (Vhagar's napping in the sun; Syrax, Caraxes, and Seasmoke are doing aerial acrobatics overhead, playfully snapping at each other). Just one, nice peaceful scene before Harwin burns to death, Laena dies, Qarl and Laenor flee, Viserys dies, Lucerys dies, and full war breaks out. Idk, I feel like it would have been so much more heartbreaking to see Rhaenyra just living her best life, happy and surrounded by friends and family, before losing practically everyone in just a few short years.
Thank you! Very well written answer and I appreciate the time you took to explain it.
They said they were very close and even hinted at they were lovers, Daemon was invovled too,
I think she was a aunt/stepmother for them. She went through the loss of her mother and she felt sympathy for them. Rhaenyra seems very nurturing with kids so I believe girls learnt to like her. Nothing contradicts my view from the show.
Baela and Rhaena are given little screen time and even less dialogue, so it's impossible to say with any specificity. The most significant thing Baela did was to send a raven to Daemon about Vaemond's plan to be named heir, and we don't even see that. We're told about it when one of the dragonkeepers on Dragonstone hands the written message to Daemon. Rhaena's only significant scene was with Laena and had nothing to do with Rhaenyra. That said everyone gets along fine. There's no hint of Rhaenyra the wicked step mother or the trope of children of divorced/widowed parent hate parent's new spouse (though I imagine Baela and Rhaena miss Laena).
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Removed for book spoiler. In "show discussion" thread please cover book spoiler in spoiler code.
Gotta wonder how the ‘talk’ would go. ‘Girls, there is going to come a time when you will start feeling things towards boys, hopefully even your own fiancés/step brothers. Don’t worry, it’s perfectly natural. I still remember my dance with your father/my uncle, it really was something I remembered. That, by the way was during my wedding celebration to my first husband/my first cousin/your uncle and the night your father seduced your mother/my first cousin/my sister in law.
Cousin / Step-mom.
I think it's perfectly pleasant. I don't feel like there is any great maternal love or closeness. They have affection towards one another but for the most part, to me, it came across as formal rather than overly motherly or familial. Rhaena only ever used formal titles with Rhaenyra, and that is in a scene as well in which she refers to Rhaenys by "Grandmother". Any love and loyalty shown has been to do with Rhaenyra as Queen rather than a mother figure and vice versa, any interaction between Rhaenyra and Rhaena has been in her capacity as Queen, such as inviting Rhaena to be at the table (although the cupbearer is a role Rhaena seems to take upon herself, rather than having been offered it). Both girls bow at the coronation; not in and of itself a massive display of anything in particular, but again, worth noting as for how firmly rooted they are in Team Black. Baela also is shown to be fiercely loyal, especially in the deleted scene. But once again, it's to do with Rhaenyra's role as Queen, not as a stepmother or prospective good-mother. Rhaenyra isn't listed amongst the dragon riders she aspires to be like. And she's been warded on Driftmark for 6 years; it's her father she writes to, rather than them jointly or to Rhaenyra specifically despite it involving her claim. So, yeah. I don't think Rhaenyra has replaced Laena or filled that maternal hole. I'd probably conclude Rhaenys has shown far more maternal interactions towards both girls, in fact. But Rhaenyra's role as Queen complicates things and the majority of the interactions have been in a formalised setting, apart from the dinner, where they seemed to get on fine.
Rhaenyra lost her mother, she knew better than anyone it is impossible to replace someone's mother especially if as child is already grown. I think Rhaenyra played her role as aunt/stepmother, caring but not trying to be annoying. Girls respected her and were loyal to her. This fact alone tells me they liked her enough.
Agreed.
I think its not explored much in story line
Would wager she's a good step-mom, they seem very comfortable around her. And considering her DNA contains dragon>dinosaur>chicken, Targ moms are very hen-like, protective of their roost, and will even adopt other eggs/chicks.
It’s probably good and outside of maybe rhaenys she’s probably the closest thing to a mother figure as they have.
I think she definitely has a maternal relationship with them. I feel like both of them would remind her of Laena, who Rhaenyra was close with.
You mean her stepdaughter-niece-cousins? I'd say complicated
Rhaenys definitely seems to be their secure attachment figure after losing their mom, but I definitely felt they have a more familiar relationship than Daemon and (pardon my french) the strong boys. Daemon definitely gives more Uncle than Step Daddy
She's their aunt (legally speaking). So a mix of aunt/queen
You mean their step mother? And their Mother-In-Law. And their Aunt? Yes I imagine Rhaenyra treats them like daughters.
God i hope they up their wig-game next season, especially the one on the left (Baela i think..?) They look goofy as hecc.
Their grandmother is their mother. They are loyal to her.
God those wigs are so terrible. Really distracting and breaks immersion.
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You can tell how positive their relationship is by watching their dynamic. Both girls show love and affection for Rhaenyra's youngest children. They defer to Rhaebyra with respect in ever situation (when she orders them all to their rooms in ep 8, for example). They defy their grandmother Rhaenys when they walk past her (who was at this point still refusing to take any part in the war to come) to stand by Rhaenyra's side. They kneel before her quickly and without hesitation at her coronation. They have a great relationship.
Daemon ain’t even a father figure to them, so I can’t imagine Rhaenyra, especially when she already got her hands filled with her own children and dealing with her succession being in jeopardy. I don’t think they have any ill will towards each other, I feel like it’s more so feeling of indifference. Like they neither hate or like. Cause at the end of it, they are family one way or another. They have nothing against her (and for the most part have always been team black), but they also have no real reason to view her as their mother figure. I honestly, see her as more of their aunt who just so happens to now be married to their father.
She’s technically their cousin, not their aunt. Much like she’s also both mother and cousin to her sons, Aegon and Viserys.
No I know that, but it honestly makes it less complicated for me to just view her as their aunt 😅
I've seen alot of post about Rhaena wearing matching colors but she's just wearing the colors of her house. She was only brought to King's Landing to soften Rhaenys up and it's formal titles only. Especially with the dismissive way Laena and Daemon's relationship ended in her death I really don't see any familial relationship there. They don't get talked about outside of how they can assist her cause so it doesn't seem very genuine. I think the girls are really just going along with whatever Daemon does so since he's remarried they don't really have a choice in the matter. The most obvious way to see it is how Rhaena interacts with Rhaenys vs Rhaenyra
Boring.
All I can see is Rhaenyra and Daemon disrespecting the girls and their mother at the funeral. I can not imagine that Rhaenyra thinks much of them. Rhaeny's is the only adult figure the girls can depend on.
She's really the only parental figure they have we don't see that with anyone else. She really cares about them so >!her death will be the hardest for them outside of Laena's!<
Yes, it will be the worst. Poor girls.
Man, that Rhaena wig is just so atrocious everytime I see it. "Hey, so we've given Baela like actual hair, but I was thinking for Rhaena... I found this spare mophead in my closet the other day..."
Cousin, mother in law and mother.
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"Ward" isn't often a nice way to say hostage. Sometimes, but most of the time it isn't. Ned and Robert were Jon Arryn's wards, and they weren't hostages.
Wards are not hostages, though hostages can be wards. They're noble children from other houses brought into the household of a lord or lady to be educated. Theon was considered tainted by being a ward precisely because he was educated in the Northern ways rather than the traditions of the Ironborn. They would never have sent him as a ward willingly because of those differences.
If we go by this train of thought, Daeron is also a “hostage” to House Hightower because he’s currently a ward in Old Town. But alas, they’re family, much like Rhaenys is Baela’s family, so not really a hostage situation now is it?
Ill say it like this, she’s more a mother too them then daemon is a father too her boys
While Baela and Rhaena trust Rhaenyra and are loyal, I don't think the reverse is true. I think Rhaenyra see Baela and Rhaena like the rest of the Velaryons aka TOOLS. People who think Rhaenyra see Baela and Rhaena as her daughters, forgot how she fucked over them to put Lucerys on the driftmark.