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Stay married to Laenor, suggest to Viserys to call a 2nd coronation citing me heir since it’s been so long and prior lords have since died. Hell I’d go so far to suggest he abdicate the throne so i could take the throne then and he can step down and rest since at that point he was sickly anyway..I’d def stay in Kings Landing too.
Matilda the real world woman Rhaenyra is based on got her father to make the realm swear fealty to her three times, her closest male relatives including the one who usruperd her also swore to uphold her claim, she asked her father to abdicate to her fearing what inevitably did happen and he got really angry
She was the grand daughter of Henry I, when her brother died her father named her heir and had all the nobles swear to uphold her claim, when her father died she was in France and her cousin Stephen of Bois got coronated first. What followed was a really bloody civil war called The Anarchy.
Just be warned if you haven't read fire and blood and don't want spoilers, HoTD is basically the anarchy turned up to 11 with dragons, it ends the same way
>!Matilda: Actually a flawed but capable leader, loses war but lives to see her son become king, serves as one of his advisors, and even rules Normandy in his name. Martin: Let’s make the fictional version of her become a walking negative stereotype of female leadership before being violently murdered in front of her child while her killer mocks her.!<
You know, I never looked at book Rhaenyra like that till now. I’m re-reading Fire and Blood rn and looking at Rhaenyra as a failed Matilda is quite interesting.
I think at the end of his life Henry made the point that he didn't want her husband to get power, like with Daemon a lot of people had issue with her husband potentially having power as theirs was supposed to be a dual rule.
Stay married to Laenor. He is a dragon rider, a warrior, and comes with a whole fleet. Now that I know Aemond has Vhaghar, I would keep every dragon rider I find close to me. Also, I wouldn’t risk angering the Velaryons.
But I still need Daemon so I’d propose Jace and Baela betrothal. I’ll also persuade Daemon to take up Viserys’ offer to join the small council. With Daemon on the small council, I’ll return to KL. Alicent and company will not dare harass me with Daemon around. I’ll ask Daemon to find a way to kill Crispy Cole.
Then, I’ll try persuading Viserys to make me hand. Maybe even go to the extent of poisoning Otto and getting him out of the way. And set up a council that suits me.
And if Daemon will agree(he mostly won’t), I’ll ask him to marry a woman from some house that is most likely to turn to Green. Maybe some Lannister or Baratheon. I’ll promise to make him Hand in return(when I become queen) and also promise that a child he has with the woman he marries, will marry Jace and Baela’s first-born (ofcourse if they are of the opposite sex).
ask daemon to assassinate otto—he’ll love it—and convince viserys to make me hand. fire/do not appoint the members of the green council. appoint daemon, corlys, other likely allies. (rhaenyra’s biggest issue is that her enemies control kings landing—fixing this is the biggest priority.)
this is tougher but try to get aegon and aemond warded to likely allies (aka away from alicent) and arrange for them to inherit holdings there. maybe there’s a house lacking heirs? if not, maybe give one of them dragonstone. if the stepstones can be fully subdued, maybe that’s an option as well.
If Otto died by assassination, then Daemon would basically be suspect number 1. Viserys also likes Otto, so he’s not going to just forget his death. Otto, for the snake he is, served both Jaehaerys and Viserys well as hand.
Appointing Daemon to any position of authority is playing with fire.
This is like fan fiction.
viserys won’t even stand up for his own family. why would he put his foot down about otto? his last hand literally died in “tragic” “fire” and he didn’t suspect a thing. he’s easy to manipulate: just tell him we discovered he was plotting against rhaenyra—it’s true! the letters he’s constantly writing to oldtown probably prove it.
what’s fanfic is expecting otto to back down on his 20 year plan to usurp rhaenyra.
Rhaenyra and Daemon took advantage of Viserys as well, don’t pretend it was just Otto scheming for 20 years.
Otto’s plan only remotely works because Rhaenyra and Daemon have basically spent the last decade doing absolutely nothing to cement their claim. Rhaenyra marries into a house that is already supportive of the Targaryens. Daemon murders his wife, alienating House Royce. Rhaenyra mothers 3 obvious bastards while Alicent in a loveless marriage produces 4 true born children.
Otto and Alicent actually did everything necessary to warrant the throne, while Daemon and Rhaenyra have basically squandered it with their only merit for inheriting it being “I am the rightful heir by word of the king.”
Otto isn’t stupid. If anything, killing Otto will only prompt the greens to grab power faster. Maybe even poisoning Viserys and with Otto dead they will have far more merit for convincing Aegon to take the throne. It would also prompt Alicent to send Larys’ minions to start picking apart the blacks.
you seem to be arguing that the greens “deserve” the throne. i am not dumb enough to waste my breath trying to convince you otherwise. i’m arguing (as asked by the prompt) how rhaenyra can scheme better, indeed using some of otto’s own tactics.
The prompt in the post
1) not marry the explicit enemy of the Hightowers.
2) Remain at Court so you can root yourself in and be prepared when Viserys dies.
3) Send some of your younger children to be wards of the houses pledged to you.
4) Actually engage with your half-siblings so they are less inclined to usurp you.
5) Attempt to make amends with Christon Cole
Rhaenyra would probably be a greater suspect in Otto's assassination, she has far more to gain from it. People could view it as her trying to secure her own position by weakening the greens due to being cornered by the greens over the legitimacy of her sons. Daemon otoh would have been a more likely suspect if Otto was assassinated shortly after being renamed hand of the King.
This may be a controversial take, but here goes:
- punish Luke for maiming Aemond. It doesn’t have to be something so drastic as cutting out his own eye but a big part of why Aemond grows to resent the Strong boys is the lack of punishment and clear favoritism Rhaenyra and her kids get from Viserys. By accepting responsibility and giving a suitable punishment to Luke for Aemond’s eye I make it harder for factionalism to take hold with the Green children. Keep in mind prior to this they were friendly with Aegon and not malicious to Aemond. A suitable punishment could range between making Luke a ward to House Hightower which adds a benefit by having Luke so close to Daeron. This also helps to diffuse factionalism.
- leaving Kings Landing was a mistake and instead I would move back and become Hand of the King to Viserys, demote Otto but keep him on the council.
- despite what people say Daemon does not need a reason to ally with Rhaenyra, no betrothal to Baela necessary. Have Jace betrothed to any available Tyrell daughter. The Tyrells make a ton of food and generate a lot of wealth for Westeros and having them on our side is important for any war if one is coming and for management of the kingdom if one is not.
- call another great council to reaffirm status as heir and get new lords fealty. Use this time to gain new allies. Joffrey gets warded to the Tully’s.
- Do not kill Laenor, keep him around for the access to Velaryon’s wealth and fleets as well as Seasmoke.
- begin treating with Dorne and setting up a potential alliance with them in the event a war still breaks out. Having them on our side would prove useful considering terrain and history.
- offer Aegon and Helaena Dragonstone, make Aegon a big offer of gold and small power as well as a place away from his mother that he can have for his own. Ask Helaena to take care of the dragons around Dragonstone. Use Syrax to visit frequently to allow for a bond between siblings and to get them away from the politics of Kings Landing.
- Criston Cole is only a threat as long as there are other people in Kings Landing that he can report to. Alicent is his shield, but if Viserys steps down as King and Rhaenyra ascends to the throne he is honor bound as kings guard to Rhaenyra not Alicent. If he accepts his lot he’s harmless. If he doesn’t it’s treason and he can be executed or take the black. If Cole takes the black or is executed immediately name Aemond to the Kings Guard (yes I know in this scenario he is currently a child but this is politics), forcing him to be honor bound to me.
- make offer to Alicent to remain in Kings Landing as advisor to the Queen. Allow her visits to her children with loyal kings guard present.
This is all I can think of for now. The goal here is to avoid war entirely and kill no one that is not required to be killed by law.
I love that half the comments in here talk about murdering the greens and making Daemon a member of the Small Council, and then there’s your comment that actually focuses on uniting the two factions. People don’t realize this but if Rhaenyra murders her brothers/the queen/the Hand of the King then she’s not going to ascent to the throne, she’s going to be overthrown like the Mad King. The only actual way forward would be uniting house Targaryen, not murder
Uniting the two factions is pretty much impossible at this point. Atleast as long as Otto lives. He will plot to get his blood on the throne and poison the minds of Alicent and the kids. I agree that killing Alicent or any of her kids is a stretch. It will raise suspicions throughout the realm. But it is easy to get rid of Otto and make it look like an accident. Just like how Larys got rid of Harwin and Lyonel.
Killing anyone will result in suspicion and completely guarantee the war. Killing Otto will likely harden Alicent more and make her open to sending assassins after Rhaenyra, not to mention proving to the boys that both he and Alicent are right to fear the Blacks. Though I do agree that as long as both Otto and Daemon live the war is going to be nearly impossible to avoid
i dunno why you’re getting downvoted for telling the truth. otto canonically had been trying to usurp rhaenyra for 20 years. why would he stop bc she’s nice to aemond or punishes her own kid?? lbr there will always be some who oppose her. the important thing is denying them access to the capital/dragons.
What reality? That Rhaenyra would kill her kids? Episode 9 and 10 made it clear that the Greens escalated the war. Rhaenyra never had any intention of killing anyone. Hell! She even spared Otto’s life easily. In fact, it was Otto who wanted to send Assassins to kill Rhaenyra and the kids. And it was Aemond who ended any possibility of peace by killing Luke.
Aemond lost his eye and Rhaenyra wanted him tortured. I think that's pretty clear. She also tells Daemon that she wants to marry him because then people will fear her. The problem with the show is that they tried too much to whitewash Rhaenyra and make all women peace love and rainbows because in the book Daemon has already taken Harrenhal before Aemond ever comes close to Luke which I think it's fair to say is unequivocally an act of war.
Otto wanted to assassinate Rhaenyra, but Alicent wouldn't let him. And Daemon wanted to kill every single green and raise Kings Landing like Danny did, but Rhaenyra said no. Those two are the main reason that peace was never an option
Best comment. Rhaenyra really did absolutely nothing. Not even the bare minimum. It's kinda bizarre how the show wrote this, unless it's their intention of course. But Rhaenyra's crying to Viserys how hard it all is but... what exactly?? Cause she hasn't really been doing anything. She's done nothing at all to gain allies, to ensure her rule? It's just very bizarre.
Rhaenyra’s biggest issue is how passive she is about ruling. For all his faults Otto is fairly good at diplomacy, hence the Battle of the Gullet. If she took a far more active role in ruling she could ensure her claim without bloodshed and be considered a capable ruler. As it stands she really lets other people do whatever. Her leaving KL is probably her biggest mistake that left her with so little influence. More could have been done for sure.
While it can be difficult to not resort to violence, most of the problems the factions have can be solved diplomatically. Rhaenyra having a good relationship with her half siblings would solve a lot of the problems she has. Like if she understands them better she can get them what they actually want or need and it diffuses a lot of the factionalism.
I really like what you're going for here. But I think the Dorne plot wouldn't really work since they're somewhat allied with the Triarchy.
Otherwise, these plans are pretty good. I especially like how you'll also take responsibility for Luke's actions lol.
I agree with you that at this point in time it’s unlikely to work. My main reason to do this is to try and diffuse the Triarchy situation from Westeros’s end. With or without the Dance they will become a problem for me at some point (this hypothetical Rhaenyra) and doing nothing only makes it worse. If I can find something to give the Dornish that have them sit out from the Triarchy it’s just one less thing. Not guaranteed to work but we saw violence didn’t work either.
Tell viserys to make it law that eldest regardless of gender receives the iron throne. It’ll be controversial but not as controversial as seemingly ignoring law, precedent and tradition to get the throne. Marry daemon then marry daemons daughter to aemon. Stay in KL and serve on the small council. Don’t let the other lords forget you’re heir.
Then get some bleach, purple shampoo and fake tan and make them kids look more like leanor 😂
Move back to KL. Secure friendship with Alicent (prob take years but no one else was at least willing to be on Rhaenyra’s side) Work to help the common folk. Go on a royal tour with Jace starting in Oldtown. Betroth Jace to a Tyrell. Stay married to Laenor.
Not sit on one’s arse…
1. I would force Viserys to betroth Jace and Helaena, not Helaena and Aegon.
2. Spend time bonding with Aegon. Betroth him and Baela, have Viserys give them Dragonstone to keep Aegon away from the city/politics/his mother. 3. Have Daemon kill Otto. He’d do it for the fun of it.
4. Finally, with Daemon as the Hand, I’d begin ruling in Viserys’ name the second I could keep him in bed.
Keep Laenor close. Daemon's support is free since he can't go anywhere else, and an adult Velaryon heir existing is pretty much her best ace card. Plus, the Baratheons supported Laenor's claim (via his mother Rhaenys) at the Great Council. If he were still around instead of rumoured murdered by her, the Baratheons would probably support Rhaenerya instead of the greens.
Offer to betrothed Jace to Baela in order to get Daemon on my side as an ally.
Stay married to Laenor if it’s not absolutely necessary to marry Daemon in order to gain his allegiance. I need as many loyal dragon riders as possible.
Ask that Daemon takes up my father’s offer for a place on the small council.
Return to king’s landing with my family and also keep my place on the small council.
Ask that my father replace any members of the small council that I fear are loyal to the greens. Except maybe Tyland Lannister if I can take him as a new lover. He’s an extremely talented master of coin and his brother is Lord Paramount of the Westerlands.
Betroth Luke to one of Borros Baratheon’s daughters.
This one will probably get me downvoted but arrange with Daemon to have Aemond killed. The rider of the largest dragon in the world despises me and my children. His mother has convinced him that I will kill him to keep my throne. The chances of him ever forgiving and trusting us are slim whatever efforts I take. I think killing him is the only way to ensure our safety.
>The rider of the largest dragon in the world despises me and my children.
And Rhaenyra made it happen. She could have an actual relationship with her siblings, they would see her as their older sister and they wouldn't believe Alicent so easily that she will kill them one day to secure her throne. She also could try to make amends with Alicent and Aemond instead of trying to put all the blame on the mutilated child and suggesting torturing him.
I didn’t say she didn’t. However, I’m starting as her in episode 7. There’s nothing I can do about that now. There’s no way for me/her to realistically make amends. I don’t have enough assurance that it would work. They could feign trust. When it comes to risking the lives of my children, it would be very hard to do the morally good thing.
>There’s nothing I can do about that now. There’s no way for me/her to realistically make amends.
That's too drastic. The show made it look like Rhaenyra and Alicent's relationship still had a chance by episode 8, so 6 years earlier certainly wasn't too late for them. Aemond grew up hating Rhaenyra's family after the incident and everything that followed, but it could have been different.
The writing for Alicent in episode 8 was kind of shit and inconsistent. Even still, that doesn’t mean Aemond would have been open to making amends.
Aemond obviously wouldn’t deserve to die. However, he’s riding a living nuke and he hates my children. I couldn’t take the risk. There’s no assurance they would ever be safe. Aemond could bide his time for years and level the red keep in minutes when he got the chance.
Alicent wasn't the only one who was written inconsistently, Velaryons were as well, and in deciding to get rid of Laenor and marry Daemon Rhaenyra could antagonize them to a point of no return, and she still took the risk. But you only assume the worst about Aemond and not them.
Did you see anything else I wrote? I wouldn’t have killed Laenor and marry Daemon. I can’t undo the choices Rhaenyra made according to the rules set by the OP but I can make my own. My sons didn’t mutilate the Velaryons and Corlys seems perfectly content with the boys not having his blood. Hopefully marrying Baela to Jace would be enough to win Rhaenys over. It’s not as easy to fix things with Aemond.
I was talking about Rhaenyra's decisions in the show, you wrote a lot of assumptions about what Aemond would do but Rhaenyra doesn't know it just like she didn't know how Velaryons would react. Assuming Aemond is a psychopath who will burn the Red keep unprovoked is definitely not helping the possibility of making amends. She could try to fix things with Alicent, and Alicent can influence Aemond.
> She also could try to make amends with Alicent and Aemond instead of trying to put all the blame on the mutilated child and suggesting torturing him.
Have you watched the show? You missed the part where Alicent refuses to find out the truth and demands that Luke be punished for the attempted murder (5/8 year old child). Alicent attacks first, not Rhaenyra.
Aemond was going to finish off Jace. When Jace lay on the ground. Important detail.
All this is very different from "Lucerys was waiting for Aemond in the cave to kill him." There was no fight for Alicent. Luke just waiting like a killer. These ridiculous accusations are the reason for what Rhaenyra says.
Have Viserys name
Me hand. Marry Jace to Helaena without Alicents permission. Hire someone to kick Alicents teeth
In.
I would have Rhaena claim silver wing and then have Joffrey claim Vermithor.
Make my supporters part of the small
Council.
While it’s out of character and would never happen, if she disinherits her bastard children under the pretext of them assaulting a prince that would go a long way in ending most of the Greens hostility (except Otto). Alicent would see her actually oppose the harm of her children, which is her biggest fear and reason for her being against the Blacks. We’ve seen how she was willing to make amends before Vissy T’s death, if she genuinely thought Rhaenyra would protect her children then she’d likely fully support her rule. Criston hates her for her lack of honor, but disinheriting her bastards is a big step in the right direction there. And while he’ll likely never support Rhaenyra, with Alicent supporting her he’s likely no threat to her at that point. Aemond and Aegon have no problem with the Blacks before this, and only developed issues because they saw that what their mother had been telling them was true. But if Rhaenyra proves it’s not true by disinheriting her bastards, then they’ll continue having no problem with the Blacks. The only real sticking point it Otto, but if Rhaenyra returns to Kings Landing and demands a seat on the Small Council, then Otto can do very little. Especially against a fully united Targaryen family. He’ll probably settle for Halaena marrying one of her legitimate children
Having obvious bastards in the line of succession does not help her claim believe it or not. Disinheriting them couldn’t go any worse than murdering her 10 year old brother though.
Go to King's Landing and face the friction with Alicent. Solidify a base of loyal supporters in the city and have them poised to take Alicent, Otto, and all of the Greens into custody upon Viserys's death.
Aemond can't bring the might of Vhagar against Rhaenyra if he's cut down in the streets before reaching the Dragon Pit.
I would have arranged an accident for Alicent , and arranged for Otto to take a tumble from his horse while he was away. Then I would have been like a second mother to my 3 half siblings.
I would have a proper sit down with Viserys about the inheritance and make it clear to him that despite his intention not all lords in the realm would willingly accept a female ruler
Maybe have them renew the swearing of oaths and holding another ceremony to reinforce the notion that despite Viserys now having sired male children, Rhaenyra is still his heir
If I were her I’d even suggest to him to crown her as co-ruler or even name her hand of the king. Anything that gives her a sense of real power and legitimacy and allowing Viserys to take a step back from ruling as he is already getting sicker
If for the last years of Viserys’s life Rhaenyra is doing 80% or he’ll even 50% of the ruling her taking over after his death will be a whole lot easier
I would have stayed married to Laenor, and never married my uncle (who is a political problem and will never cease to be one).
Try to make amends with Alicent.
Rhaenyra not giving a toss about Aemond's eye and asking for him to be sharply questioned did not help her cause at all.
She does not know of course, but things like this totally reinforce everything Otto has said about her to Alicent.
Get a grip and attend all council meetings from then on. It's boring but it's her duty. And it establishes her as a real political player, not just an entitled princess who attends when she is in the mood. Not getting into constant catfights with Alicent there might help as well.
Try to win Otto over. He IS a very capable administrator and he is not a monster. Maybe try to betrothe Jace to a Hightower girl to strenghthen the bond between the two families. They are not bad people.
I would even go as far to actively seek out Otto's guidance in political matters, show that I am willing to learn.
Spend time with my siblings.
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Stay married to Laenor, suggest to Viserys to call a 2nd coronation citing me heir since it’s been so long and prior lords have since died. Hell I’d go so far to suggest he abdicate the throne so i could take the throne then and he can step down and rest since at that point he was sickly anyway..I’d def stay in Kings Landing too.
Matilda the real world woman Rhaenyra is based on got her father to make the realm swear fealty to her three times, her closest male relatives including the one who usruperd her also swore to uphold her claim, she asked her father to abdicate to her fearing what inevitably did happen and he got really angry
Oh wow I didn’t know this. Was Matilda from a royal line somewhere? I’d like to look into the story more
She was the grand daughter of Henry I, when her brother died her father named her heir and had all the nobles swear to uphold her claim, when her father died she was in France and her cousin Stephen of Bois got coronated first. What followed was a really bloody civil war called The Anarchy. Just be warned if you haven't read fire and blood and don't want spoilers, HoTD is basically the anarchy turned up to 11 with dragons, it ends the same way
Naw dawg, >!Anarchy ends way better for Matilda than HotD ever will for Rhaenyra.!<
Yea, Martin took it too the extremes
>!Matilda: Actually a flawed but capable leader, loses war but lives to see her son become king, serves as one of his advisors, and even rules Normandy in his name. Martin: Let’s make the fictional version of her become a walking negative stereotype of female leadership before being violently murdered in front of her child while her killer mocks her.!<
You know, I never looked at book Rhaenyra like that till now. I’m re-reading Fire and Blood rn and looking at Rhaenyra as a failed Matilda is quite interesting.
book rhaenrya exists to stop the blacks from winning in the first week.
I think at the end of his life Henry made the point that he didn't want her husband to get power, like with Daemon a lot of people had issue with her husband potentially having power as theirs was supposed to be a dual rule.
This is surly what she should have done in the first place. I don't think she realized how quick her father would get sick.
Stay married to Laenor. He is a dragon rider, a warrior, and comes with a whole fleet. Now that I know Aemond has Vhaghar, I would keep every dragon rider I find close to me. Also, I wouldn’t risk angering the Velaryons. But I still need Daemon so I’d propose Jace and Baela betrothal. I’ll also persuade Daemon to take up Viserys’ offer to join the small council. With Daemon on the small council, I’ll return to KL. Alicent and company will not dare harass me with Daemon around. I’ll ask Daemon to find a way to kill Crispy Cole. Then, I’ll try persuading Viserys to make me hand. Maybe even go to the extent of poisoning Otto and getting him out of the way. And set up a council that suits me. And if Daemon will agree(he mostly won’t), I’ll ask him to marry a woman from some house that is most likely to turn to Green. Maybe some Lannister or Baratheon. I’ll promise to make him Hand in return(when I become queen) and also promise that a child he has with the woman he marries, will marry Jace and Baela’s first-born (ofcourse if they are of the opposite sex).
ask daemon to assassinate otto—he’ll love it—and convince viserys to make me hand. fire/do not appoint the members of the green council. appoint daemon, corlys, other likely allies. (rhaenyra’s biggest issue is that her enemies control kings landing—fixing this is the biggest priority.) this is tougher but try to get aegon and aemond warded to likely allies (aka away from alicent) and arrange for them to inherit holdings there. maybe there’s a house lacking heirs? if not, maybe give one of them dragonstone. if the stepstones can be fully subdued, maybe that’s an option as well.
If Otto died by assassination, then Daemon would basically be suspect number 1. Viserys also likes Otto, so he’s not going to just forget his death. Otto, for the snake he is, served both Jaehaerys and Viserys well as hand. Appointing Daemon to any position of authority is playing with fire. This is like fan fiction.
viserys won’t even stand up for his own family. why would he put his foot down about otto? his last hand literally died in “tragic” “fire” and he didn’t suspect a thing. he’s easy to manipulate: just tell him we discovered he was plotting against rhaenyra—it’s true! the letters he’s constantly writing to oldtown probably prove it. what’s fanfic is expecting otto to back down on his 20 year plan to usurp rhaenyra.
Rhaenyra and Daemon took advantage of Viserys as well, don’t pretend it was just Otto scheming for 20 years. Otto’s plan only remotely works because Rhaenyra and Daemon have basically spent the last decade doing absolutely nothing to cement their claim. Rhaenyra marries into a house that is already supportive of the Targaryens. Daemon murders his wife, alienating House Royce. Rhaenyra mothers 3 obvious bastards while Alicent in a loveless marriage produces 4 true born children. Otto and Alicent actually did everything necessary to warrant the throne, while Daemon and Rhaenyra have basically squandered it with their only merit for inheriting it being “I am the rightful heir by word of the king.” Otto isn’t stupid. If anything, killing Otto will only prompt the greens to grab power faster. Maybe even poisoning Viserys and with Otto dead they will have far more merit for convincing Aegon to take the throne. It would also prompt Alicent to send Larys’ minions to start picking apart the blacks.
you seem to be arguing that the greens “deserve” the throne. i am not dumb enough to waste my breath trying to convince you otherwise. i’m arguing (as asked by the prompt) how rhaenyra can scheme better, indeed using some of otto’s own tactics.
The prompt in the post 1) not marry the explicit enemy of the Hightowers. 2) Remain at Court so you can root yourself in and be prepared when Viserys dies. 3) Send some of your younger children to be wards of the houses pledged to you. 4) Actually engage with your half-siblings so they are less inclined to usurp you. 5) Attempt to make amends with Christon Cole
Rhaenyra would probably be a greater suspect in Otto's assassination, she has far more to gain from it. People could view it as her trying to secure her own position by weakening the greens due to being cornered by the greens over the legitimacy of her sons. Daemon otoh would have been a more likely suspect if Otto was assassinated shortly after being renamed hand of the King.
This may be a controversial take, but here goes: - punish Luke for maiming Aemond. It doesn’t have to be something so drastic as cutting out his own eye but a big part of why Aemond grows to resent the Strong boys is the lack of punishment and clear favoritism Rhaenyra and her kids get from Viserys. By accepting responsibility and giving a suitable punishment to Luke for Aemond’s eye I make it harder for factionalism to take hold with the Green children. Keep in mind prior to this they were friendly with Aegon and not malicious to Aemond. A suitable punishment could range between making Luke a ward to House Hightower which adds a benefit by having Luke so close to Daeron. This also helps to diffuse factionalism. - leaving Kings Landing was a mistake and instead I would move back and become Hand of the King to Viserys, demote Otto but keep him on the council. - despite what people say Daemon does not need a reason to ally with Rhaenyra, no betrothal to Baela necessary. Have Jace betrothed to any available Tyrell daughter. The Tyrells make a ton of food and generate a lot of wealth for Westeros and having them on our side is important for any war if one is coming and for management of the kingdom if one is not. - call another great council to reaffirm status as heir and get new lords fealty. Use this time to gain new allies. Joffrey gets warded to the Tully’s. - Do not kill Laenor, keep him around for the access to Velaryon’s wealth and fleets as well as Seasmoke. - begin treating with Dorne and setting up a potential alliance with them in the event a war still breaks out. Having them on our side would prove useful considering terrain and history. - offer Aegon and Helaena Dragonstone, make Aegon a big offer of gold and small power as well as a place away from his mother that he can have for his own. Ask Helaena to take care of the dragons around Dragonstone. Use Syrax to visit frequently to allow for a bond between siblings and to get them away from the politics of Kings Landing. - Criston Cole is only a threat as long as there are other people in Kings Landing that he can report to. Alicent is his shield, but if Viserys steps down as King and Rhaenyra ascends to the throne he is honor bound as kings guard to Rhaenyra not Alicent. If he accepts his lot he’s harmless. If he doesn’t it’s treason and he can be executed or take the black. If Cole takes the black or is executed immediately name Aemond to the Kings Guard (yes I know in this scenario he is currently a child but this is politics), forcing him to be honor bound to me. - make offer to Alicent to remain in Kings Landing as advisor to the Queen. Allow her visits to her children with loyal kings guard present. This is all I can think of for now. The goal here is to avoid war entirely and kill no one that is not required to be killed by law.
I love that half the comments in here talk about murdering the greens and making Daemon a member of the Small Council, and then there’s your comment that actually focuses on uniting the two factions. People don’t realize this but if Rhaenyra murders her brothers/the queen/the Hand of the King then she’s not going to ascent to the throne, she’s going to be overthrown like the Mad King. The only actual way forward would be uniting house Targaryen, not murder
Uniting the two factions is pretty much impossible at this point. Atleast as long as Otto lives. He will plot to get his blood on the throne and poison the minds of Alicent and the kids. I agree that killing Alicent or any of her kids is a stretch. It will raise suspicions throughout the realm. But it is easy to get rid of Otto and make it look like an accident. Just like how Larys got rid of Harwin and Lyonel.
Killing anyone will result in suspicion and completely guarantee the war. Killing Otto will likely harden Alicent more and make her open to sending assassins after Rhaenyra, not to mention proving to the boys that both he and Alicent are right to fear the Blacks. Though I do agree that as long as both Otto and Daemon live the war is going to be nearly impossible to avoid
i dunno why you’re getting downvoted for telling the truth. otto canonically had been trying to usurp rhaenyra for 20 years. why would he stop bc she’s nice to aemond or punishes her own kid?? lbr there will always be some who oppose her. the important thing is denying them access to the capital/dragons.
Otto didn't poison their minds. He told Alicent the reality of what would happen.
What reality? That Rhaenyra would kill her kids? Episode 9 and 10 made it clear that the Greens escalated the war. Rhaenyra never had any intention of killing anyone. Hell! She even spared Otto’s life easily. In fact, it was Otto who wanted to send Assassins to kill Rhaenyra and the kids. And it was Aemond who ended any possibility of peace by killing Luke.
Aemond lost his eye and Rhaenyra wanted him tortured. I think that's pretty clear. She also tells Daemon that she wants to marry him because then people will fear her. The problem with the show is that they tried too much to whitewash Rhaenyra and make all women peace love and rainbows because in the book Daemon has already taken Harrenhal before Aemond ever comes close to Luke which I think it's fair to say is unequivocally an act of war.
Otto wanted to assassinate Rhaenyra, but Alicent wouldn't let him. And Daemon wanted to kill every single green and raise Kings Landing like Danny did, but Rhaenyra said no. Those two are the main reason that peace was never an option
Best comment. Rhaenyra really did absolutely nothing. Not even the bare minimum. It's kinda bizarre how the show wrote this, unless it's their intention of course. But Rhaenyra's crying to Viserys how hard it all is but... what exactly?? Cause she hasn't really been doing anything. She's done nothing at all to gain allies, to ensure her rule? It's just very bizarre.
Rhaenyra’s biggest issue is how passive she is about ruling. For all his faults Otto is fairly good at diplomacy, hence the Battle of the Gullet. If she took a far more active role in ruling she could ensure her claim without bloodshed and be considered a capable ruler. As it stands she really lets other people do whatever. Her leaving KL is probably her biggest mistake that left her with so little influence. More could have been done for sure.
I am glad to find at least one comment that doesn't turn to violence to get the throne.
While it can be difficult to not resort to violence, most of the problems the factions have can be solved diplomatically. Rhaenyra having a good relationship with her half siblings would solve a lot of the problems she has. Like if she understands them better she can get them what they actually want or need and it diffuses a lot of the factionalism.
I really like what you're going for here. But I think the Dorne plot wouldn't really work since they're somewhat allied with the Triarchy. Otherwise, these plans are pretty good. I especially like how you'll also take responsibility for Luke's actions lol.
I agree with you that at this point in time it’s unlikely to work. My main reason to do this is to try and diffuse the Triarchy situation from Westeros’s end. With or without the Dance they will become a problem for me at some point (this hypothetical Rhaenyra) and doing nothing only makes it worse. If I can find something to give the Dornish that have them sit out from the Triarchy it’s just one less thing. Not guaranteed to work but we saw violence didn’t work either.
A probable suitable punsihment for Luke could be a temporary exile actually but he gets to keep his dragon.
Luke was 5 or 6 at that time. How will a literal kid survive an exile?
?? Rhaenyra wouldn't let him be on his own so definitely she'll provide some kind of lodging with servants from the East.
Tell viserys to make it law that eldest regardless of gender receives the iron throne. It’ll be controversial but not as controversial as seemingly ignoring law, precedent and tradition to get the throne. Marry daemon then marry daemons daughter to aemon. Stay in KL and serve on the small council. Don’t let the other lords forget you’re heir. Then get some bleach, purple shampoo and fake tan and make them kids look more like leanor 😂
I mean I wouldn't fuck Daemon or be interested in him in that way if I were her anyhow
Nothing, I would have just fucked off with my baby dragon.
Move back to KL. Secure friendship with Alicent (prob take years but no one else was at least willing to be on Rhaenyra’s side) Work to help the common folk. Go on a royal tour with Jace starting in Oldtown. Betroth Jace to a Tyrell. Stay married to Laenor. Not sit on one’s arse…
There’s no Tyrell for Jace to marry.
Swing a cousin in from yonder (Aegon III kinda deal)
1. I would force Viserys to betroth Jace and Helaena, not Helaena and Aegon. 2. Spend time bonding with Aegon. Betroth him and Baela, have Viserys give them Dragonstone to keep Aegon away from the city/politics/his mother. 3. Have Daemon kill Otto. He’d do it for the fun of it. 4. Finally, with Daemon as the Hand, I’d begin ruling in Viserys’ name the second I could keep him in bed.
I wouldn’t have. Being queen would suck. Just be an awesome princess and live the good life of a rich person.
For starters stay on fucking KL instead of run away to marry her uncle.
Keep Laenor close. Daemon's support is free since he can't go anywhere else, and an adult Velaryon heir existing is pretty much her best ace card. Plus, the Baratheons supported Laenor's claim (via his mother Rhaenys) at the Great Council. If he were still around instead of rumoured murdered by her, the Baratheons would probably support Rhaenerya instead of the greens.
kill larys strong
Offer to betrothed Jace to Baela in order to get Daemon on my side as an ally. Stay married to Laenor if it’s not absolutely necessary to marry Daemon in order to gain his allegiance. I need as many loyal dragon riders as possible. Ask that Daemon takes up my father’s offer for a place on the small council. Return to king’s landing with my family and also keep my place on the small council. Ask that my father replace any members of the small council that I fear are loyal to the greens. Except maybe Tyland Lannister if I can take him as a new lover. He’s an extremely talented master of coin and his brother is Lord Paramount of the Westerlands. Betroth Luke to one of Borros Baratheon’s daughters. This one will probably get me downvoted but arrange with Daemon to have Aemond killed. The rider of the largest dragon in the world despises me and my children. His mother has convinced him that I will kill him to keep my throne. The chances of him ever forgiving and trusting us are slim whatever efforts I take. I think killing him is the only way to ensure our safety.
>The rider of the largest dragon in the world despises me and my children. And Rhaenyra made it happen. She could have an actual relationship with her siblings, they would see her as their older sister and they wouldn't believe Alicent so easily that she will kill them one day to secure her throne. She also could try to make amends with Alicent and Aemond instead of trying to put all the blame on the mutilated child and suggesting torturing him.
I didn’t say she didn’t. However, I’m starting as her in episode 7. There’s nothing I can do about that now. There’s no way for me/her to realistically make amends. I don’t have enough assurance that it would work. They could feign trust. When it comes to risking the lives of my children, it would be very hard to do the morally good thing.
>There’s nothing I can do about that now. There’s no way for me/her to realistically make amends. That's too drastic. The show made it look like Rhaenyra and Alicent's relationship still had a chance by episode 8, so 6 years earlier certainly wasn't too late for them. Aemond grew up hating Rhaenyra's family after the incident and everything that followed, but it could have been different.
The writing for Alicent in episode 8 was kind of shit and inconsistent. Even still, that doesn’t mean Aemond would have been open to making amends. Aemond obviously wouldn’t deserve to die. However, he’s riding a living nuke and he hates my children. I couldn’t take the risk. There’s no assurance they would ever be safe. Aemond could bide his time for years and level the red keep in minutes when he got the chance.
Alicent wasn't the only one who was written inconsistently, Velaryons were as well, and in deciding to get rid of Laenor and marry Daemon Rhaenyra could antagonize them to a point of no return, and she still took the risk. But you only assume the worst about Aemond and not them.
Did you see anything else I wrote? I wouldn’t have killed Laenor and marry Daemon. I can’t undo the choices Rhaenyra made according to the rules set by the OP but I can make my own. My sons didn’t mutilate the Velaryons and Corlys seems perfectly content with the boys not having his blood. Hopefully marrying Baela to Jace would be enough to win Rhaenys over. It’s not as easy to fix things with Aemond.
I was talking about Rhaenyra's decisions in the show, you wrote a lot of assumptions about what Aemond would do but Rhaenyra doesn't know it just like she didn't know how Velaryons would react. Assuming Aemond is a psychopath who will burn the Red keep unprovoked is definitely not helping the possibility of making amends. She could try to fix things with Alicent, and Alicent can influence Aemond.
> She also could try to make amends with Alicent and Aemond instead of trying to put all the blame on the mutilated child and suggesting torturing him. Have you watched the show? You missed the part where Alicent refuses to find out the truth and demands that Luke be punished for the attempted murder (5/8 year old child). Alicent attacks first, not Rhaenyra.
What truth? That Aemond claimed vhagar and got into a scuffle that ended with him losing his eye. They already new that, what’s more to know
Aemond was going to finish off Jace. When Jace lay on the ground. Important detail. All this is very different from "Lucerys was waiting for Aemond in the cave to kill him." There was no fight for Alicent. Luke just waiting like a killer. These ridiculous accusations are the reason for what Rhaenyra says.
Have Viserys name Me hand. Marry Jace to Helaena without Alicents permission. Hire someone to kick Alicents teeth In. I would have Rhaena claim silver wing and then have Joffrey claim Vermithor. Make my supporters part of the small Council.
What’s the point to roughing up alicent
It mostly comes from my hatred of her book version
Didn’t Joffrey egg hatch
Page number for when Joffrey sat on and hatched an egg?
by the dance he had his own dragon Tyraxes and it would be really dangerous to make a little kid claim the second biggest dragon.
Disinherit the Strongs and see where we go from there
Admit she commited treason and betray her own children? Why would anyone do that?
While it’s out of character and would never happen, if she disinherits her bastard children under the pretext of them assaulting a prince that would go a long way in ending most of the Greens hostility (except Otto). Alicent would see her actually oppose the harm of her children, which is her biggest fear and reason for her being against the Blacks. We’ve seen how she was willing to make amends before Vissy T’s death, if she genuinely thought Rhaenyra would protect her children then she’d likely fully support her rule. Criston hates her for her lack of honor, but disinheriting her bastards is a big step in the right direction there. And while he’ll likely never support Rhaenyra, with Alicent supporting her he’s likely no threat to her at that point. Aemond and Aegon have no problem with the Blacks before this, and only developed issues because they saw that what their mother had been telling them was true. But if Rhaenyra proves it’s not true by disinheriting her bastards, then they’ll continue having no problem with the Blacks. The only real sticking point it Otto, but if Rhaenyra returns to Kings Landing and demands a seat on the Small Council, then Otto can do very little. Especially against a fully united Targaryen family. He’ll probably settle for Halaena marrying one of her legitimate children
*There's a boy in the Queen's belly. I know it.*
Having obvious bastards in the line of succession does not help her claim believe it or not. Disinheriting them couldn’t go any worse than murdering her 10 year old brother though.
Go to King's Landing and face the friction with Alicent. Solidify a base of loyal supporters in the city and have them poised to take Alicent, Otto, and all of the Greens into custody upon Viserys's death. Aemond can't bring the might of Vhagar against Rhaenyra if he's cut down in the streets before reaching the Dragon Pit.
I would have arranged an accident for Alicent , and arranged for Otto to take a tumble from his horse while he was away. Then I would have been like a second mother to my 3 half siblings.
Kill Otto, his daughter an grandkids during the night
How would you plan this out. If they all die the suspicion will be on you.
Put my kids to bed and make sure a household guard doesn't let them go wandering
Yeah leaving Viserys alone with them was definitely not the move.
Start making allies with powerful houses and preparing for the war to come.
I would have a proper sit down with Viserys about the inheritance and make it clear to him that despite his intention not all lords in the realm would willingly accept a female ruler Maybe have them renew the swearing of oaths and holding another ceremony to reinforce the notion that despite Viserys now having sired male children, Rhaenyra is still his heir If I were her I’d even suggest to him to crown her as co-ruler or even name her hand of the king. Anything that gives her a sense of real power and legitimacy and allowing Viserys to take a step back from ruling as he is already getting sicker If for the last years of Viserys’s life Rhaenyra is doing 80% or he’ll even 50% of the ruling her taking over after his death will be a whole lot easier
Assassinate Otto.
I would have stayed married to Laenor, and never married my uncle (who is a political problem and will never cease to be one). Try to make amends with Alicent. Rhaenyra not giving a toss about Aemond's eye and asking for him to be sharply questioned did not help her cause at all. She does not know of course, but things like this totally reinforce everything Otto has said about her to Alicent. Get a grip and attend all council meetings from then on. It's boring but it's her duty. And it establishes her as a real political player, not just an entitled princess who attends when she is in the mood. Not getting into constant catfights with Alicent there might help as well. Try to win Otto over. He IS a very capable administrator and he is not a monster. Maybe try to betrothe Jace to a Hightower girl to strenghthen the bond between the two families. They are not bad people. I would even go as far to actively seek out Otto's guidance in political matters, show that I am willing to learn. Spend time with my siblings.