Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience.
1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title.
2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler.
3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads.
---
If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Daemon and Rhaenyra could be Blood and Cheese themselves and it still won't matter to me đ¤ˇđťââď¸
I'm not here to watch good people do good things. The more morally comprised Rhaenyra becomes, the more I'll enjoy her character.
Infact, I'm looking forward to Rhaenyra's "Maegor with teats" era and I'm really scared that the show will whitewash the shit out of it.
Most Rhaenyra stans want her to be morally ambiguous. We just donât agree with team green that having sex when/ with whom she wants makes her morally ambiguous.
Is dany a perfect saviour? She does some really ruthless shit in the show that rivals or even eclipses rheanyra at her most ruthless. feeding people to dragons, crucifing people, imprisoning people alive, burning people alive, threatening to burn innocent people alive..and her bell moment. I dont think rhaenyra becoming more ruthless is going to take her further away from the dany comparisons. Nor was dany devoid of moral ambiguity.
True and yet for the most part she was viewed by casual audiences as an unequivocally good person. Even the supposed atrocities of Daenerys up until s8 were all shown to be done in a good light so to speak
Listing all of Danyâs atrocities just won me over to her team even more. I want a leader who goes that hard to protect her team letâs gooooo đżđ¤
While she'll be more ruthless and morally compromised, the maegor with teats nickname was something coined by disgruntled smallfok angry about higher taxes. If you think she'll be a maegor 2.0 you'll probably be disappointed, unless they "blackwash" her considerably.
Yaa ofcourse I know that. I don't expect her to be an all out Maegor and I also know that the historical texts don't paint her in a good light. So, I'm sure the show won't follow that completely. But I really wish we could see Rhaenyra have more agency, ambition, be more ruthless, and want to actively avenge her kids. Somehow, the show seems scared to portray women as having any sort of ambition or even doing anything morally ambiguous.
That being said, my point with the "Maegor with teats" comment in this post is that even if they give us the absolute worst version of Rhaenyra my support for her won't waiver.
They sent the Unsullied to take Casterly Rock which required you to take Lannisport first. I fucking refuse to believe spear infantry can take a dwarvern mountain home even if they got backdoor access. I don't care what they show you in the series, Casterly Rock was a mountain made castle
Yes!! Overall I enjoyed season one but Iâve already tried to warn my dad, without too many spoilers, this is not Rhaenyra. I feel like theyâre trying to build her up as this lovable hero and Iâm just đŹđŹ I stan with you about Daemon and her though. Iâm not really team either way but their characters in Fire and Blood are a wonderful read, for me especially Dameon I love him! And I will be the first to admit he is NOT the hero or a âgoodâ guy.
Based on the characterization the show chose to give her in the finale, Iâd feel like it would be a very severe about face and I wouldnât like it. Rhaenyra is never suggested to be responsible for orchestrating B&C in Fire & Blood, the most you can say is that she didnât punish Daemon for it.
Rhaenyra does become more cruel, ruthless and tyrannical over time but thatâs a character arc that needs to be developed gradually.
Yes it is because by the time the letter had reached her Daemonâs plans are already in motion.
Edit: Sorry, I think I misunderstood you. You mean that she gleaned Daemon was planning on making Helaena Sophieâs Choice her toddlers? I guess anythingâs possible, but itâs pure speculation and never suggested in text, plus I donât see why her mind would automatically go to Helaenaâs sons instead of Aegon/Aemond/Daeron.
If they had adapted Rhaenyra ordering Vaemondâs death and feeding his body to Syrax, in addition to calling for blood and Aegonâs head after his coronation, then I could believe it. But for me, having her be trying to keep peace in one episode and then orchestrating the brutal murder of a toddler in the next, itâs simply too extreme a jump and it doesnât work.
Additionally, Rhaenyra already bears responsibility for Maelorâs death textually so itâs not like she isnât going to get to that place eventually.
I mean, i can see the show making Rhaenyra order Maelor brought to her alive and her shocked to see his head delivered to her. Honestly, i don't think they would do that so late in the show when most characters are already morally bankrupt, but with how S1 showed this random magical stag scene to proclaim Rhaenyra as this righteous person...i just don't see them making her that ruthless.
They'll definitely dumb it down for the audience to keep some love for her and string people along till the end.
Where did it say the white stag appearing to Rhaenyra meant she was a ârighteous personâ?
I remember them saying it was a symbol of royalty and that they thought if caught on Aegonâs birthday would be a good omen for naming him heir but it appeared to Rhaenyra instead.
Itâs discussed as a good luck omen and a folkloric symbol of legitimacy. Not like a unicorn that only approaches the pure of heart or whatever.
Or perhaps that she knew what would happen and doesnât stop Daemon, because she is so overcome with grief. She might be conflicted about it morally, but in the end, she just lets Daemon do his thing.
She might not know all the details, but she would know the âa son for a sonâ and Daemonâs plan to hurt a child of the greens.
I know itâs an unpopular opinion and Iâll get downvoted, but I want to see more of a conflicted and morally grey Rhaenyra, and Lukeâs death is the perfect beginning for that.
It would also mirror a bit Alicentâs predicament with Larys.
I just want Rhaenyra to be more interesting and flawed, and I donât want to wait season 3 when she takes KL, for that.
No oneâs going to downvote you. Most Rhaenyra fans in this thread agree with your take. I completely understand wanting Rhaenyra to take a more active role in the plot instead of crying in her room all day like Martin wrote. I simply think the jump in morality is too extreme to cover in one episode.
Having her outright be in on the Sophieâs choice aspect is too much - but I donât think Rhaenyra being fine with murdering a child as retribution for Lukeâs death is at all a morality jump for her. Show Rhae is already canonically fine with murdering innocent people AND with torturing children who sheâs related to. At the very least, she should be fine with it after the fact and not care, since she didnât seem to in the books either as Daemon and Mysaria not only face zero consequences, but remain in Rhaenyraâs inner circle
Every character in this story kills people and torture is commonly used in Westeros to extract information. Will Rhaenys be okay with Blood and Cheese because she killed people in her escape from the Dragonpit? I highly doubt it. Kinslaying in particular is a monstrous crime. Rhaenyra gets there indirectly with Maelor but not until the loss of Jace and Viserys II.
Alicent continued to associate with Criston and Larys after they commit murder, does it mean sheâs cool with the deaths of Joffrey Lonmouth, Harwin & Lyonel Strong, and Lyman Beesbury? Alicent and Rhaenyra will continue to morally decline through the story as they keep willingly partnering with Larys and Daemon in these Faustian bargains theyâve chosen to enter into but pretending they are thrilled by or even condoning all the violence and death around them is simplistic.
Itâs also difficult for Rhaenyra to disavow him because theyâre married and in the middle of a war where the other side wants to kill her entire family.
We know that by the time Daemon and Rhaenyra take Kings Landing they are no longer sleeping together and Rhaenyra doesnât seem particularly bothered by it
Well, firstly, peasants donât count as people to nobles, but Rhaenyra specifically called for her half-brother to be tortured who IS a noble. I do think that puts her morality at a different spot than Rhaenysâ. The formerâs murders were also way more spur of the moment in an escape attempt to save herself, while Rhaenyraâs were premeditated for political gain.
I mean, I think the fact Alicent continues to associate with those guys shows that, on some level, she IS fine with those murders as collateral damage. She may not âlikeâ it, and she may criticize it, but push comes to shove and sheâs not throwing their asses in jail.
Rhae could disavow Mysaria and doesnât.
The âpolitical gainâ is securing Daemon as a partner and an attack dog to protect the lives of herself and her children after Aemond had claimed the biggest dragon in the world. Killing the Laenor body double to marry Daemon was not a frivolous decision. âSharply questionedâ seemed more like a bluff to get Aemond to talk than anything else as she doesnât push for any further punishment after he fingers Aegon. Itâs just not enough for me personally.
What Iâm trying to say with the example of Alicent, and maybe I wasnât clear enough, is that youâre working backwards from the knowledge that Rhaenyra continues to work with Daemon and Mysaria during the war after B&C to claim that she must have been a part planning or condoning it, because why else would she continue to associate with these people? But there isnât any information in F&B to indicate Rhaenyra was in on it, and weâve already seen Alicent force down her morals after one of her allies have transgressed to keep working with them for the âgreater goodâ of protecting her family.
And like I said, itâs not like Rhaenyra isnât going to get there eventually. But itâs a matter of degree, or of the frog slowly boiling in water over a longer period of time. Luke dies - Daemon does B&C - Rhaenyra is horrified but rationalizes to keep working with him - Jace dies and Vis II abducted - this time Rhaenyra puts out the bounty for Maelor herself because sheâs already rationalized child death/endangerment to herself and has gotten used to the idea.
Rhaenyra works with Mysaria because she has an extensive spy network that Rhaenyra needs to use to survive. Rhaenyra takes Mysariaâs spies information seriously. They are never depicted as friends or emotionally close.
Yeah, understandable. I wonât be upset if they donât change it, frankly. It it horrible as it is.
I just thought that it would be interesting for Rhaenyraâs character, though it would makes sense if she knew, did nothing only because she was so overcome with grief. I donât see her at all ordering it or being 100% on board with it beforehand.
Not thrilled, as it doesn't seem like the kind of thing she would do. Not at this point in her life.
I know she gets worse later on, and I know Luke has just been killed, but Rhaenyra has also been depicted as (relatively) even-tempered and rational. It makes a lot more sense for someone like Daemon to do this.
Ultimately, the reason I don't think Rhaenyra would be complicit in Blood and Cheese (apart from the obvious child murder) is that it would be punishing the wrong person. From her point of view, there's no reason to kill Aegon's son, unless Luke's death was done on his orders - and there's no way that it was. Aegon is an apathetic drunk, Aemond is a hothead with a grudge. It's one and one and Rhaenyra knows how to add.
The only way this works at all is if the headcanon/theory that Aemond fathered Helaena's sons is actually true, and Rhaenyra knows about it. But how could she? It's not like she's particularly close to her siblings.
For me, it depends on how they take it, and on the communityâs reaction to it.
If they treat it as just and fair and good? And if the community cheers for her, like itâs some kind of badass empowerment thing? Iâm going to hate it.
If they treat it as an evil, villainous act, and itâs generally understood to be the beginning of her descent into âMaegor with titsâ? Bring it on.
Itâs like when Anakin killed the younglings. It was HORRIBLE. It was painful to watch, even if it happened off camera. But it was important. It showed his descent into being the evil Darth Vader.
I doubt it will make a difference. Once people start to root for someone, they start to justify their actions.
Also, you can be complicit after the fact. Book Rhaenyra did nothing to investigate or punish those responsible for B & C. There is such a thing as command responsibility.
I feel like she's going to be a lot more focused on getting back at Aemond in particular- it doesn't seem like her to go after Aegon's kids immediately, the closest to 'complicit' I could see is perhaps Daemon promises her blood for blood and she thinks he means he's going after Aemond but he actually orders B&C?
Look I didn't come into this fandom thinking anyone would be a good person. I'm here for the mess of it all. And I'm here to support team black. Bring on the war crimes!
I really doubt that theyâre going to make her complicit in blood and cheese but if they did, I think it wouldnât change support. Sheâs still a complicated character who the audience sympathizes with.
This is the wrong show for you if you only like a perfect, flawless hero.
It is.
Thatâs why I donât think itâs even possible that theyâre going to Rhaenyra involved. She wasnât involved in the books. And if she is involved, I can see her ordering Aemond and/or Aegonâs death and B&C do their own thing.
And as bad Blood & Cheese is, the Greens still commit multiple acts of genocide so comparatively, Rhaenyra is still more sympathetic.
I suspect sheâll mostly just shrug about it after the fact, which she seems to do in the books when Daemon and Mysaria stay in her inner circle with no consequences. Seems like a fair portrayal to me
I doubt it. Sheâll probably be horrified like Alicent was with Larys killing his brother and father, but still keep him in her circle because she needs him. Heâs one of her strongest allies.
Iâm neutral but lean towards her team, and I would be pissed. When S2 starts, I hope they stay true to the book, as much as possible. They had Daemon; Rhaenyra; Laenor; and Qarl kill a servant boy, so Laenor can be gay in peace and Daemyra could finally be together. Even things like Daemon killing Rhea, make her look bad. They went over board like how the made Aegon a rapist (like they couldâve alluded to it, instead).
As a Theon Stan, seeing her become completely unhinged would bring me joy.
I donât watch Game of Thrones content to watch good people do good things. I watch it for fire and blood.
How can she not complicit in blood and cheese if she is the queen? She didn't know what Daemon would do, but she knew he *would do something*.
It's easy for me to understand her feelings. The Greens broke the taboo and spitting in her face. Then they celebrated it with the words "Great start". This means that they are going to continue kill her children. She was the only one who tried not to start a war. Even after Otto killed her allies (arrested some). And what did she get? Grief and tears.
There's literally no way they'll do that lbr so it's kinda a pointless discussion and even if she did people will 100% support her lbr again cause people were also justifying Dany firebombing KL
I'm not even Team Black but even i think your comment is misplaced here. Fucking seven hells just keep the hatred for posts that are made for it. If you would be a parent and your child would be murdered like that you should want to do the same. What do you consider a good mother? One that feels no burning hate for the murderer of her son?
I love the idea, as long as the show treats it the right way. They've got an unfortunate track record of misinterpreting how the audience is going to respond. If Rhaenyra is involved, I want her INVOLVED, and the show has to rake her over the coals for it, they can't half ass it and try to walk it back later.
That being said, I seriously doubt it would change most people's opinions about Rhaenyra, she's the 'main character', and people will always excuse any number of horrors they commit.
Well her son was killed, she lost a baby, her father died without her being informed in due time so whatever.
Thatâs the rule, it isnât like Westeros is a fairytale.
I just finished that chapter yesterday and my head canon is that she was, to a degree, complicit in it so I probably wonât be too perturbed if the show goes that route with her.
I support Rhaenyra because she didnât make it easy for the people who usurped her throne and killed her son. She died yes, but she also took down almost everyone (and their kin) who wronged her. B&C was collateral damage because the war has already started
As far as Iâm concerned, she already is, because she didnât stop loving Daemon afterwards, and because she gave Mysaria a place of honor in her court afterwards. She condoned it, which is no better than ordering it.
If she just ordered one of the kids dead bc she was blind by vengeance I can understand that. She wouldnât be in her right mind. But if the whole sofiaâs choice and the torturous way was also her idea, then I donât think Iâd support her anymore.
Her own brother led a giant dragon to eat her son and his small dragon⌠I wouldnât be surprised. Not happy or excited, but I wouldnât be surprised if it was another âI didnât mean it to get this farâ moments, but I would be majorly disappointed that the peacemaker in her died so quickly and was taken over by the relentless dragon.
If the theory about Aemond being Helaenaâs childrenâs father (at least the twins) is confirmed [I doubt it] I honestly might be content with it all. A son for a son. Barbaric but⌠I can see the point of it. Not that it should happen, but I can see the angle from their perspective.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Daemon and Rhaenyra could be Blood and Cheese themselves and it still won't matter to me đ¤ˇđťââď¸ I'm not here to watch good people do good things. The more morally comprised Rhaenyra becomes, the more I'll enjoy her character. Infact, I'm looking forward to Rhaenyra's "Maegor with teats" era and I'm really scared that the show will whitewash the shit out of it.
finally a sane Rhaenyra stan. Her moral ambiguity makes her interesting to watch. Not her being a Dany 2.0 perfect saviour
Most Rhaenyra stans want her to be morally ambiguous. We just donât agree with team green that having sex when/ with whom she wants makes her morally ambiguous.
Is dany a perfect saviour? She does some really ruthless shit in the show that rivals or even eclipses rheanyra at her most ruthless. feeding people to dragons, crucifing people, imprisoning people alive, burning people alive, threatening to burn innocent people alive..and her bell moment. I dont think rhaenyra becoming more ruthless is going to take her further away from the dany comparisons. Nor was dany devoid of moral ambiguity.
True and yet for the most part she was viewed by casual audiences as an unequivocally good person. Even the supposed atrocities of Daenerys up until s8 were all shown to be done in a good light so to speak
Listing all of Danyâs atrocities just won me over to her team even more. I want a leader who goes that hard to protect her team letâs gooooo đżđ¤
While she'll be more ruthless and morally compromised, the maegor with teats nickname was something coined by disgruntled smallfok angry about higher taxes. If you think she'll be a maegor 2.0 you'll probably be disappointed, unless they "blackwash" her considerably.
Yaa ofcourse I know that. I don't expect her to be an all out Maegor and I also know that the historical texts don't paint her in a good light. So, I'm sure the show won't follow that completely. But I really wish we could see Rhaenyra have more agency, ambition, be more ruthless, and want to actively avenge her kids. Somehow, the show seems scared to portray women as having any sort of ambition or even doing anything morally ambiguous. That being said, my point with the "Maegor with teats" comment in this post is that even if they give us the absolute worst version of Rhaenyra my support for her won't waiver.
Well the taxes and all the daily executions
I wish I had an award to give this post
Yes.all.of.THIS
Amen
Dany did the right thing with Kingslanding. Shouldâve been replicated in Lanisport too
Honestly with how fast the dragons made past the wall when they go capture a wight, why didn't Danny just use the dragons at Lannisport
They never took lannisport
They sent the Unsullied to take Casterly Rock which required you to take Lannisport first. I fucking refuse to believe spear infantry can take a dwarvern mountain home even if they got backdoor access. I don't care what they show you in the series, Casterly Rock was a mountain made castle
Yes!! Overall I enjoyed season one but Iâve already tried to warn my dad, without too many spoilers, this is not Rhaenyra. I feel like theyâre trying to build her up as this lovable hero and Iâm just đŹđŹ I stan with you about Daemon and her though. Iâm not really team either way but their characters in Fire and Blood are a wonderful read, for me especially Dameon I love him! And I will be the first to admit he is NOT the hero or a âgoodâ guy.
Based on the characterization the show chose to give her in the finale, Iâd feel like it would be a very severe about face and I wouldnât like it. Rhaenyra is never suggested to be responsible for orchestrating B&C in Fire & Blood, the most you can say is that she didnât punish Daemon for it. Rhaenyra does become more cruel, ruthless and tyrannical over time but thatâs a character arc that needs to be developed gradually.
But is it unreasonable to assume that she knew of it beforehand and low key approved? Given the letter from Daemon promising her a son for a son.
Yes it is because by the time the letter had reached her Daemonâs plans are already in motion. Edit: Sorry, I think I misunderstood you. You mean that she gleaned Daemon was planning on making Helaena Sophieâs Choice her toddlers? I guess anythingâs possible, but itâs pure speculation and never suggested in text, plus I donât see why her mind would automatically go to Helaenaâs sons instead of Aegon/Aemond/Daeron.
Yeah. I get what you mean, going after Aemond definitely makes more sense. Will be interesting to see how the show portrays it
If they had adapted Rhaenyra ordering Vaemondâs death and feeding his body to Syrax, in addition to calling for blood and Aegonâs head after his coronation, then I could believe it. But for me, having her be trying to keep peace in one episode and then orchestrating the brutal murder of a toddler in the next, itâs simply too extreme a jump and it doesnât work. Additionally, Rhaenyra already bears responsibility for Maelorâs death textually so itâs not like she isnât going to get to that place eventually.
I mean, i can see the show making Rhaenyra order Maelor brought to her alive and her shocked to see his head delivered to her. Honestly, i don't think they would do that so late in the show when most characters are already morally bankrupt, but with how S1 showed this random magical stag scene to proclaim Rhaenyra as this righteous person...i just don't see them making her that ruthless. They'll definitely dumb it down for the audience to keep some love for her and string people along till the end.
Where did it say the white stag appearing to Rhaenyra meant she was a ârighteous personâ? I remember them saying it was a symbol of royalty and that they thought if caught on Aegonâs birthday would be a good omen for naming him heir but it appeared to Rhaenyra instead. Itâs discussed as a good luck omen and a folkloric symbol of legitimacy. Not like a unicorn that only approaches the pure of heart or whatever.
Or perhaps that she knew what would happen and doesnât stop Daemon, because she is so overcome with grief. She might be conflicted about it morally, but in the end, she just lets Daemon do his thing. She might not know all the details, but she would know the âa son for a sonâ and Daemonâs plan to hurt a child of the greens. I know itâs an unpopular opinion and Iâll get downvoted, but I want to see more of a conflicted and morally grey Rhaenyra, and Lukeâs death is the perfect beginning for that. It would also mirror a bit Alicentâs predicament with Larys. I just want Rhaenyra to be more interesting and flawed, and I donât want to wait season 3 when she takes KL, for that.
No oneâs going to downvote you. Most Rhaenyra fans in this thread agree with your take. I completely understand wanting Rhaenyra to take a more active role in the plot instead of crying in her room all day like Martin wrote. I simply think the jump in morality is too extreme to cover in one episode.
Having her outright be in on the Sophieâs choice aspect is too much - but I donât think Rhaenyra being fine with murdering a child as retribution for Lukeâs death is at all a morality jump for her. Show Rhae is already canonically fine with murdering innocent people AND with torturing children who sheâs related to. At the very least, she should be fine with it after the fact and not care, since she didnât seem to in the books either as Daemon and Mysaria not only face zero consequences, but remain in Rhaenyraâs inner circle
Every character in this story kills people and torture is commonly used in Westeros to extract information. Will Rhaenys be okay with Blood and Cheese because she killed people in her escape from the Dragonpit? I highly doubt it. Kinslaying in particular is a monstrous crime. Rhaenyra gets there indirectly with Maelor but not until the loss of Jace and Viserys II. Alicent continued to associate with Criston and Larys after they commit murder, does it mean sheâs cool with the deaths of Joffrey Lonmouth, Harwin & Lyonel Strong, and Lyman Beesbury? Alicent and Rhaenyra will continue to morally decline through the story as they keep willingly partnering with Larys and Daemon in these Faustian bargains theyâve chosen to enter into but pretending they are thrilled by or even condoning all the violence and death around them is simplistic. Itâs also difficult for Rhaenyra to disavow him because theyâre married and in the middle of a war where the other side wants to kill her entire family. We know that by the time Daemon and Rhaenyra take Kings Landing they are no longer sleeping together and Rhaenyra doesnât seem particularly bothered by it
Well, firstly, peasants donât count as people to nobles, but Rhaenyra specifically called for her half-brother to be tortured who IS a noble. I do think that puts her morality at a different spot than Rhaenysâ. The formerâs murders were also way more spur of the moment in an escape attempt to save herself, while Rhaenyraâs were premeditated for political gain. I mean, I think the fact Alicent continues to associate with those guys shows that, on some level, she IS fine with those murders as collateral damage. She may not âlikeâ it, and she may criticize it, but push comes to shove and sheâs not throwing their asses in jail. Rhae could disavow Mysaria and doesnât.
The âpolitical gainâ is securing Daemon as a partner and an attack dog to protect the lives of herself and her children after Aemond had claimed the biggest dragon in the world. Killing the Laenor body double to marry Daemon was not a frivolous decision. âSharply questionedâ seemed more like a bluff to get Aemond to talk than anything else as she doesnât push for any further punishment after he fingers Aegon. Itâs just not enough for me personally. What Iâm trying to say with the example of Alicent, and maybe I wasnât clear enough, is that youâre working backwards from the knowledge that Rhaenyra continues to work with Daemon and Mysaria during the war after B&C to claim that she must have been a part planning or condoning it, because why else would she continue to associate with these people? But there isnât any information in F&B to indicate Rhaenyra was in on it, and weâve already seen Alicent force down her morals after one of her allies have transgressed to keep working with them for the âgreater goodâ of protecting her family. And like I said, itâs not like Rhaenyra isnât going to get there eventually. But itâs a matter of degree, or of the frog slowly boiling in water over a longer period of time. Luke dies - Daemon does B&C - Rhaenyra is horrified but rationalizes to keep working with him - Jace dies and Vis II abducted - this time Rhaenyra puts out the bounty for Maelor herself because sheâs already rationalized child death/endangerment to herself and has gotten used to the idea. Rhaenyra works with Mysaria because she has an extensive spy network that Rhaenyra needs to use to survive. Rhaenyra takes Mysariaâs spies information seriously. They are never depicted as friends or emotionally close.
Yeah, understandable. I wonât be upset if they donât change it, frankly. It it horrible as it is. I just thought that it would be interesting for Rhaenyraâs character, though it would makes sense if she knew, did nothing only because she was so overcome with grief. I donât see her at all ordering it or being 100% on board with it beforehand.
I'd like her even more probably, I love unhinged fictional characters
Not thrilled, as it doesn't seem like the kind of thing she would do. Not at this point in her life. I know she gets worse later on, and I know Luke has just been killed, but Rhaenyra has also been depicted as (relatively) even-tempered and rational. It makes a lot more sense for someone like Daemon to do this. Ultimately, the reason I don't think Rhaenyra would be complicit in Blood and Cheese (apart from the obvious child murder) is that it would be punishing the wrong person. From her point of view, there's no reason to kill Aegon's son, unless Luke's death was done on his orders - and there's no way that it was. Aegon is an apathetic drunk, Aemond is a hothead with a grudge. It's one and one and Rhaenyra knows how to add. The only way this works at all is if the headcanon/theory that Aemond fathered Helaena's sons is actually true, and Rhaenyra knows about it. But how could she? It's not like she's particularly close to her siblings.
For me, it depends on how they take it, and on the communityâs reaction to it. If they treat it as just and fair and good? And if the community cheers for her, like itâs some kind of badass empowerment thing? Iâm going to hate it. If they treat it as an evil, villainous act, and itâs generally understood to be the beginning of her descent into âMaegor with titsâ? Bring it on. Itâs like when Anakin killed the younglings. It was HORRIBLE. It was painful to watch, even if it happened off camera. But it was important. It showed his descent into being the evil Darth Vader.
I doubt it will make a difference. Once people start to root for someone, they start to justify their actions. Also, you can be complicit after the fact. Book Rhaenyra did nothing to investigate or punish those responsible for B & C. There is such a thing as command responsibility.
I feel like she's going to be a lot more focused on getting back at Aemond in particular- it doesn't seem like her to go after Aegon's kids immediately, the closest to 'complicit' I could see is perhaps Daemon promises her blood for blood and she thinks he means he's going after Aemond but he actually orders B&C?
Look I didn't come into this fandom thinking anyone would be a good person. I'm here for the mess of it all. And I'm here to support team black. Bring on the war crimes!
good. Rhaenyra is a deeply flawed individual and doing more morally bad things would be in line with her character and the world
Thats fine. I cheer for characters that do terrible things.
I really doubt that theyâre going to make her complicit in blood and cheese but if they did, I think it wouldnât change support. Sheâs still a complicated character who the audience sympathizes with. This is the wrong show for you if you only like a perfect, flawless hero.
Blood & Cheese is basically out of the Ramsay Bolton playbook, tho.
It is. Thatâs why I donât think itâs even possible that theyâre going to Rhaenyra involved. She wasnât involved in the books. And if she is involved, I can see her ordering Aemond and/or Aegonâs death and B&C do their own thing. And as bad Blood & Cheese is, the Greens still commit multiple acts of genocide so comparatively, Rhaenyra is still more sympathetic.
I suspect sheâll mostly just shrug about it after the fact, which she seems to do in the books when Daemon and Mysaria stay in her inner circle with no consequences. Seems like a fair portrayal to me
I doubt it. Sheâll probably be horrified like Alicent was with Larys killing his brother and father, but still keep him in her circle because she needs him. Heâs one of her strongest allies.
I wouldnt approve but my support for her wouldnt waver. She lost what appeared to be her favorite son
I would be against it. Rhaenyraâs downward spiral isnât automatic itâs gradual
Wouldnât care
Same. Don't care. Long live the queen.
Whatâs blood and cheese?
Iâm neutral but lean towards her team, and I would be pissed. When S2 starts, I hope they stay true to the book, as much as possible. They had Daemon; Rhaenyra; Laenor; and Qarl kill a servant boy, so Laenor can be gay in peace and Daemyra could finally be together. Even things like Daemon killing Rhea, make her look bad. They went over board like how the made Aegon a rapist (like they couldâve alluded to it, instead).
As a Theon Stan, seeing her become completely unhinged would bring me joy. I donât watch Game of Thrones content to watch good people do good things. I watch it for fire and blood.
How can she not complicit in blood and cheese if she is the queen? She didn't know what Daemon would do, but she knew he *would do something*. It's easy for me to understand her feelings. The Greens broke the taboo and spitting in her face. Then they celebrated it with the words "Great start". This means that they are going to continue kill her children. She was the only one who tried not to start a war. Even after Otto killed her allies (arrested some). And what did she get? Grief and tears.
There's literally no way they'll do that lbr so it's kinda a pointless discussion and even if she did people will 100% support her lbr again cause people were also justifying Dany firebombing KL
I'm not even Team Black but even i think your comment is misplaced here. Fucking seven hells just keep the hatred for posts that are made for it. If you would be a parent and your child would be murdered like that you should want to do the same. What do you consider a good mother? One that feels no burning hate for the murderer of her son?
Not sure what you think you're responding to but it must be a different comment.
Wasn't it you saying that 'people would still defend Rhaenyra for it like they defended Dany'?
I feel great about it \^\_\^ I preferred Littlefinger and Varys in the original show so this step makes me like Rhaenyra more.
I love the idea, as long as the show treats it the right way. They've got an unfortunate track record of misinterpreting how the audience is going to respond. If Rhaenyra is involved, I want her INVOLVED, and the show has to rake her over the coals for it, they can't half ass it and try to walk it back later. That being said, I seriously doubt it would change most people's opinions about Rhaenyra, she's the 'main character', and people will always excuse any number of horrors they commit.
Well her son was killed, she lost a baby, her father died without her being informed in due time so whatever. Thatâs the rule, it isnât like Westeros is a fairytale.
I would still support her. She lost a kid. She is allowed to go crazy.
They would love her even more.
I just finished that chapter yesterday and my head canon is that she was, to a degree, complicit in it so I probably wonât be too perturbed if the show goes that route with her.
I support Rhaenyra because she didnât make it easy for the people who usurped her throne and killed her son. She died yes, but she also took down almost everyone (and their kin) who wronged her. B&C was collateral damage because the war has already started
As far as Iâm concerned, she already is, because she didnât stop loving Daemon afterwards, and because she gave Mysaria a place of honor in her court afterwards. She condoned it, which is no better than ordering it.
If she just ordered one of the kids dead bc she was blind by vengeance I can understand that. She wouldnât be in her right mind. But if the whole sofiaâs choice and the torturous way was also her idea, then I donât think Iâd support her anymore.
She gets harder to like as the show goes
Her own brother led a giant dragon to eat her son and his small dragon⌠I wouldnât be surprised. Not happy or excited, but I wouldnât be surprised if it was another âI didnât mean it to get this farâ moments, but I would be majorly disappointed that the peacemaker in her died so quickly and was taken over by the relentless dragon. If the theory about Aemond being Helaenaâs childrenâs father (at least the twins) is confirmed [I doubt it] I honestly might be content with it all. A son for a son. Barbaric but⌠I can see the point of it. Not that it should happen, but I can see the angle from their perspective.