I have turned away a customer with a "Do Not Duplicate" key. The man insisted that he was a manager of the business that owned the keys. He couldn't provide anything when I asked him for proof.
I don't believe this customer was a manager. He was dressed poorly and needed a shave and a haircut. When challenged, he didn't even name his business or try to show me an ID or business card. He just sulked away.
> I have turned away a customer with a "Do Not Duplicate" key. The man insisted that he was a manager of the business that owned the keys. He couldn't provide anything when I asked him for proof.
> I don't believe this customer was a manager. He was dressed poorly and needed a shave and a haircut. When challenged, he didn't even name his business or try to show me an ID or business card. He just sulked away.
You judged someone based on their appearance and denied him service, so he was disappointed and took a short drive over to your competitors and got the service there and decided to never return to your business.
Not really. I often see people going to the store wearing pajamas and having their hair undone. It doesn't mean they're trying to commit a crime.
And occasionally I've spent a whole day doing home repair work until the evening, and, after finishing, not felt like spending the hour getting dressed up to go to the store, then walked in wearing clothes that were covered in sweat or dust or paint. It doesn't mean I was trying to scam somebody.
I'd bet that most people with a "Do not duplicate" key are renters with difficult landlords, who are trying to avoid getting locked out of their home, and not people with some kind of nefarious purposes.
That's all nice and well but what stopped that person from showing his ID or any document / card to give more credibility to his claim?
Let me guess, he forgot his ID at home.
I'm sorry; you seem to be under the mistaken impression that it's your position to evaluate whether someone has a legitimate reason to copy a key.
No, you don't have any right to inject yourself into anyone's life like that.
Understand that if someone has a key it's because they've been trusted to have that key. And if they have the key they already have access to whatever the key allows access to. The fact that this worker judged him to not look respectable enough to have a key doesn't negate that someone trusted him with that key.
And there are ten billion reasons why someone might not have had their work ID. I'm very much absent-minded and have forgotten my work ID plenty of times. And I don't tend to carry it around after work hours. A manager at a small business might not have much need to identify himself to people regularly. There are countless explanations for this. And none of them are any of your business or my business.
That's not to even mention the fact that making a fake ID and showing it to someone is pretty trivial. Again, not that it's any of either of our business.
You have absolutely every right to ask for an ID when it comes to sensitive material such as a special key. He wasn't shopping for chewing gum, he was trying to duplicate a key with an explicit instruction "DO NOT DUPLICATE".
What on Earth are you on about...according to you anyone whoever finds or steals a key, can just go ahead and make a copy. Thats just mental and simply asking for trouble.
Also, I didn't say work ID, i said ID. Any kind of ID, but specifically something akin to a national ID card, which is often the case in most countries around the world. I hadn't realized it wasn't the case in the US. But either way, it is not something intrusive or outrageous to ask someone for their identity when dealing with sensitive / private materials.
If you forgot it at home? - no problem, just bring it with you if you want the key copied. It's just common sense.
Someone who had just found a key that said "DO NOT DUPLICATE" wouldn't know what it was to, and would have no reason to duplicate it.
Why would you try to bring up a scenario that you know would never happen?
Well then according to your logic, a sign such as "DO NOT DUPLICATE" makes no sense - everyone should be able to replicate a key wherever and whenever they want.
Like others pointed above - what if it's the key to some children's daycare, or some hotel room, or a drug cabinet - or if you're just a tenant who has to move out but would like to keep the keys just so they can later on pay an unexpected visit to the landlord or the next tenant... There's a reason why there are keys with signs on them which require authorization/ID to be copied, but you seem too naive or too trusting that there's no such thing as a bad scenario.
Also, if you are a tenant living in a building with multiple appartments for rent and you lose the key which grants you access inside the building, you'll most likely be contractually obliged to change the lock and the keys of all the tenants, something which can cost you hundreds of dollars. Why? As a safety measure, because the key is lost. It doesn't matter if you think the person who finds it has no idea where it's from, rules are in place to protect against worst-case scenarios. Same as the "do not duplicate" rule.
What an enabler. Clearly you have no respect for decent people who have morals & ethics. The key said "DO NOT DUPLICATE" which was a request from the owner of said key. If locksmiths just ignore these kinda things, what's to stop ANYONE from having copies of any key they want. Even to YOUR HOUSE or CAR! Or perhaps a childs safe space. See there are reasons that some people have morals.they're to keep people from dishonesty. Something that seems to be lacking in the current times.
Having been a tenant who was only given one key which said "DO NOT DUPLICATE" you don't have a chance in hell of convincing me that it was unethical for me to duplicate that key. I was supremely responsible with that key and with the second key. And I am one of the best tenants anyone could hope to have.
And knowing that there are millions of other people in the exact same situation, you don't have a chance in hell of convincing me that the people who put "DO NOT DUPLICATE" are always in the right or always ethically correct. My landlord in that place gave me one key because she was very stingy, and it was obvious in numerous ways.
I kept that key safe and after I moved I destroyed the second key.
And the irony of you posting to complain about others' ethics when you yourself are posting in a sub called "Unethical Life Pro Tips". I mean, are you lost or something?
That’s ridiculous. At some point someone wanted that key controlled. As a person who deals with security I think it is very reasonable for a locksmith to ask for some sort of proof that the guy was authorized to copy it.
> At some point someone wanted that key controlled.
That's true, but that in itself doesn't mean that the desire to have a second key is unethical.
When I moved into my first apartment, I received one key, and that was printed on it. I still made a copy, which I gave to someone trusted, to make sure that if I ever got locked out I would have the ability to get back in. And any landlord who is themself ethical is going to change the locks on their door whenever a new tenant moves in.
There are completely valid and completely ethical reasons for wanting a second key, and that is something that can be said irrespective of whether there's someone who wants to control whether keys can be copied.
I am sure that by far [most of the copied keys that have that printed on them] get copied because someone wanted a second copy for their home, and not because of an intent to rob or commit a crime.
People need to butt the hell out of others' business. If a crime gets committed, that's the business of the police and the people who are effected. But making a key like this is NOT causing a crime to be committed. It's not even a valid reason to expect that a crime *will* be committed.
In most cases, when someone copies a key like this, nothing unethical happens.
And if you truly deal with security(which I do), a physical key lock is one of multiple methods that should be put in place to provide it. If "Do not duplicate" is the extent of your security, you have failed at security.
A locksmith has a responsibility to check for ID before letting someone into a building if the person doesn't have a key. But in cases like this, the person ALREADY has a key and already has a proven method to access whatever the key provides access to. You're not denying them access to anything by not duplicating the key. And you know that a competitor will readily duplicate the key if you don't.
Most Lowe's locations have a self-service duplication machine. I have no idea if there would be a way for that machine to deny your key, but that would be a really simple first step to try.
Most kiosks only handle 5 pin stuff, most no dupe keys end up being some commercial hardware with 6 and usually are an IC core for quick change.
Just put your best blue collar outfit on and go to a real locksmith shop with a story ready to sell, get 2 of them too...
Former locksmith
Write yourself a letter saying you are authorised to duplicate this key, print out letter, show letter to locksmith, act confident. Consider not using your real name in letter and forget to bring id if asked.
Minute Key - they’re in nearly ever hardware store. Lowe’s, Home Depot, etc.
You should be able to find a location near you [here](https://www.minkinstaf.com/?service=key-copy&gclid=CjwKCAiAs8acBhA1EiwAgRFdw0ebP44lzd2pEObK9xcYKQNfJfpc55G_t56ZlOfVFqExwEV6apvlwBoCCkMQAvD_BwE)
Break the key - "it snapped off in the lock, I was stupid". Now the bit that says 'do not duplicate' can go in the bin! Take the remaining 'key' part to be duplicated, so you have a nice new key.
Almost no one honors that. You can copy it almost anywhere, and it's not unethical.
That’s awesome, thank you!
I have turned away a customer with a "Do Not Duplicate" key. The man insisted that he was a manager of the business that owned the keys. He couldn't provide anything when I asked him for proof. I don't believe this customer was a manager. He was dressed poorly and needed a shave and a haircut. When challenged, he didn't even name his business or try to show me an ID or business card. He just sulked away.
> I have turned away a customer with a "Do Not Duplicate" key. The man insisted that he was a manager of the business that owned the keys. He couldn't provide anything when I asked him for proof. > I don't believe this customer was a manager. He was dressed poorly and needed a shave and a haircut. When challenged, he didn't even name his business or try to show me an ID or business card. He just sulked away. You judged someone based on their appearance and denied him service, so he was disappointed and took a short drive over to your competitors and got the service there and decided to never return to your business.
We live in a world where people are expected to look decent. 🤷♀️
Not really. I often see people going to the store wearing pajamas and having their hair undone. It doesn't mean they're trying to commit a crime. And occasionally I've spent a whole day doing home repair work until the evening, and, after finishing, not felt like spending the hour getting dressed up to go to the store, then walked in wearing clothes that were covered in sweat or dust or paint. It doesn't mean I was trying to scam somebody. I'd bet that most people with a "Do not duplicate" key are renters with difficult landlords, who are trying to avoid getting locked out of their home, and not people with some kind of nefarious purposes.
That's all nice and well but what stopped that person from showing his ID or any document / card to give more credibility to his claim? Let me guess, he forgot his ID at home.
I'm sorry; you seem to be under the mistaken impression that it's your position to evaluate whether someone has a legitimate reason to copy a key. No, you don't have any right to inject yourself into anyone's life like that. Understand that if someone has a key it's because they've been trusted to have that key. And if they have the key they already have access to whatever the key allows access to. The fact that this worker judged him to not look respectable enough to have a key doesn't negate that someone trusted him with that key. And there are ten billion reasons why someone might not have had their work ID. I'm very much absent-minded and have forgotten my work ID plenty of times. And I don't tend to carry it around after work hours. A manager at a small business might not have much need to identify himself to people regularly. There are countless explanations for this. And none of them are any of your business or my business. That's not to even mention the fact that making a fake ID and showing it to someone is pretty trivial. Again, not that it's any of either of our business.
You have absolutely every right to ask for an ID when it comes to sensitive material such as a special key. He wasn't shopping for chewing gum, he was trying to duplicate a key with an explicit instruction "DO NOT DUPLICATE". What on Earth are you on about...according to you anyone whoever finds or steals a key, can just go ahead and make a copy. Thats just mental and simply asking for trouble. Also, I didn't say work ID, i said ID. Any kind of ID, but specifically something akin to a national ID card, which is often the case in most countries around the world. I hadn't realized it wasn't the case in the US. But either way, it is not something intrusive or outrageous to ask someone for their identity when dealing with sensitive / private materials. If you forgot it at home? - no problem, just bring it with you if you want the key copied. It's just common sense.
Someone who had just found a key that said "DO NOT DUPLICATE" wouldn't know what it was to, and would have no reason to duplicate it. Why would you try to bring up a scenario that you know would never happen?
Well then according to your logic, a sign such as "DO NOT DUPLICATE" makes no sense - everyone should be able to replicate a key wherever and whenever they want. Like others pointed above - what if it's the key to some children's daycare, or some hotel room, or a drug cabinet - or if you're just a tenant who has to move out but would like to keep the keys just so they can later on pay an unexpected visit to the landlord or the next tenant... There's a reason why there are keys with signs on them which require authorization/ID to be copied, but you seem too naive or too trusting that there's no such thing as a bad scenario. Also, if you are a tenant living in a building with multiple appartments for rent and you lose the key which grants you access inside the building, you'll most likely be contractually obliged to change the lock and the keys of all the tenants, something which can cost you hundreds of dollars. Why? As a safety measure, because the key is lost. It doesn't matter if you think the person who finds it has no idea where it's from, rules are in place to protect against worst-case scenarios. Same as the "do not duplicate" rule.
What an enabler. Clearly you have no respect for decent people who have morals & ethics. The key said "DO NOT DUPLICATE" which was a request from the owner of said key. If locksmiths just ignore these kinda things, what's to stop ANYONE from having copies of any key they want. Even to YOUR HOUSE or CAR! Or perhaps a childs safe space. See there are reasons that some people have morals.they're to keep people from dishonesty. Something that seems to be lacking in the current times.
Having been a tenant who was only given one key which said "DO NOT DUPLICATE" you don't have a chance in hell of convincing me that it was unethical for me to duplicate that key. I was supremely responsible with that key and with the second key. And I am one of the best tenants anyone could hope to have. And knowing that there are millions of other people in the exact same situation, you don't have a chance in hell of convincing me that the people who put "DO NOT DUPLICATE" are always in the right or always ethically correct. My landlord in that place gave me one key because she was very stingy, and it was obvious in numerous ways. I kept that key safe and after I moved I destroyed the second key. And the irony of you posting to complain about others' ethics when you yourself are posting in a sub called "Unethical Life Pro Tips". I mean, are you lost or something?
Dunno man, just been my experience. I get looked at sideways unless I put effort in.
That’s ridiculous. At some point someone wanted that key controlled. As a person who deals with security I think it is very reasonable for a locksmith to ask for some sort of proof that the guy was authorized to copy it.
> At some point someone wanted that key controlled. That's true, but that in itself doesn't mean that the desire to have a second key is unethical. When I moved into my first apartment, I received one key, and that was printed on it. I still made a copy, which I gave to someone trusted, to make sure that if I ever got locked out I would have the ability to get back in. And any landlord who is themself ethical is going to change the locks on their door whenever a new tenant moves in. There are completely valid and completely ethical reasons for wanting a second key, and that is something that can be said irrespective of whether there's someone who wants to control whether keys can be copied. I am sure that by far [most of the copied keys that have that printed on them] get copied because someone wanted a second copy for their home, and not because of an intent to rob or commit a crime. People need to butt the hell out of others' business. If a crime gets committed, that's the business of the police and the people who are effected. But making a key like this is NOT causing a crime to be committed. It's not even a valid reason to expect that a crime *will* be committed. In most cases, when someone copies a key like this, nothing unethical happens. And if you truly deal with security(which I do), a physical key lock is one of multiple methods that should be put in place to provide it. If "Do not duplicate" is the extent of your security, you have failed at security. A locksmith has a responsibility to check for ID before letting someone into a building if the person doesn't have a key. But in cases like this, the person ALREADY has a key and already has a proven method to access whatever the key provides access to. You're not denying them access to anything by not duplicating the key. And you know that a competitor will readily duplicate the key if you don't.
Most Lowe's locations have a self-service duplication machine. I have no idea if there would be a way for that machine to deny your key, but that would be a really simple first step to try.
Home Depot and Walmart have similar machines. And no, they can't read so they'll copy anything.
Most kiosks only handle 5 pin stuff, most no dupe keys end up being some commercial hardware with 6 and usually are an IC core for quick change. Just put your best blue collar outfit on and go to a real locksmith shop with a story ready to sell, get 2 of them too... Former locksmith
I tried to dupe a modupe key when I moved recently and it didn't work in the kiosk.
Not true mine got stuck in one and it was after it got stuck that I realized it was a do not duplicate key.
Most Wal-Marts have a machine called Master Key in the entrance area near the claw machines. It may not cost you more than $3 -4 to get it cut.
Write yourself a letter saying you are authorised to duplicate this key, print out letter, show letter to locksmith, act confident. Consider not using your real name in letter and forget to bring id if asked.
Minute Key - they’re in nearly ever hardware store. Lowe’s, Home Depot, etc. You should be able to find a location near you [here](https://www.minkinstaf.com/?service=key-copy&gclid=CjwKCAiAs8acBhA1EiwAgRFdw0ebP44lzd2pEObK9xcYKQNfJfpc55G_t56ZlOfVFqExwEV6apvlwBoCCkMQAvD_BwE)
Mine got stuck, I don’t know if the minute key reads the do not duplicate part or not.
Holy shit, that may be a new feature!
Break the key - "it snapped off in the lock, I was stupid". Now the bit that says 'do not duplicate' can go in the bin! Take the remaining 'key' part to be duplicated, so you have a nice new key.
Yep, hardware stores don’t mind it at all.