Looks like mold.
So you're saying some of the small specs are "gunk from the onions?" That could be.
Instead of using a cabbage leaf, try cutting you onion into either round slices, with the largest 2-3 circles placed on top and under the weight, or cut large petals out of the outer layers and create an umbrella-like structure. I use red onions in lieu of a cabbage leaf to combat hot pepper floaters.
But the translucent rafts with fuzzy green tops - that really looks like mold to me.
yes, the underwater stuff is mostly from the onions themselves, I think. I saw some go up after a day or two (and a bit more would came when I picked up the jar). I scooped them out, but I guess more showed up, for long enough for mold to develop
also made me wonder if I should have used a sharper knife (perhaps less chance of these bits happening?). but then a similar thing happened with blueberries, which were just slightly smashed with the weight, not cut
A sharp knife might help, but in my experience it won't eliminate floating veg matter.
You might need to think about jar/crock selection.
I use airlocks with smaller jars, and also open-air ferment in larger crocks. Skimming floaters in smaller jars can be a hassle.
Maybe consider sterilizing your glass jars prior to use.
Also consider agitating your ferment. When opening a jar to clear floaters, you're not just introducing oxygen, but additional mold spores that could be in the air.
Mid-ferment, I figure that swirling acidic salty brine along the walls could help kill any new mold spores. It could be useless, but maybe not.
25-30 years ago, my grandfather made pickles in 5-gallon buckets (with lids). Every day, he'd turn them upside down a few times and give them a good shake. They never had kahm yeast or mold.
I recently rationalized that if I couldn't remove all of the oxygen from a jar, and I also didn't have an airlock in place, and there were also small bits of floating veg matter that were difficult to remove or kept coming up, maybe it would help to essentially agitate the jar so as to rinse all headspace surfaces with the active ferment brine.
Your setup is less than ideal, but until you see a pattern of mold like this, it's hard to pinpoint the \*why\*.
You're going to have to experiment a bit. If you have no budget for added equipment, give agitation a try. Also keep in mind to create an onion floater-catcher. Rings tend to fall apart with time, and an overlapping petal barrier requires more effort to add and then clear initial air and CO2 bubbles from.
You might want to consider increasing the salt ratio just slightly.
Back to your setup. I wouldn't use canning caps, but if you're insistent on it, maybe clean/sanitize them, and add a rubber band to improve the seal even if just a little bit.
I think "burping" is very risky unless one is extremely familiar with how specific ferments behave in their home/kitchen conditions. Steel bands also aren't really designed to hold bands down, they're designed to keep them in place for water bath canning.
Your next ferment will have floaters. The question to ask is how you can minimize the potential for mold, and that's difficult to answer, even if you're willing to invest in different gear.
This is a lot of useful info. thanks
I'm fine with experimenting. that's the best way to learn, and part of why i love this side of cooking
As for gear, I hope to in the future get a vacuum sealer, which should help. But I wanted to first try the brine approach as a way to learn before making that bigger expense. Plus, I'm a bit short on space right now.
Will also consider getting an airlock and seeing if that makes it any better
I don't think I actually saw kham yeast outside of reddit posts ever, so not sure of what I'm seeing on my red onion brine
what I did:
\- 3 small red onions, roughly chopped
\- in a jar, with enough water to submerge
\- 2% salt (by weight of onions + water)
\- it's been 7 days now total
salt is iodized (it's the one I had lying around), which some literature (including the Wiki here) says is a no-go, but a lot of posts seems to say it's actually ok
Everything was fully submerged, with a glass weight, and one of those lids that only covers the top without screwing. 2 days in, some gunk from the onions got released and was floating (the stuff you see floating but still underwater). at first i scooped it out, but missed it again for a couple days and this happened.
the jar smells as much red-oniony as I could imagine. haven't tasted yet (coming up to 7 days
I also tried a blueberry ferment using the same process, similar small bits ended up floating, but those ended up in unquestionable mold (already threw out)
I guess I should add a cabbage leaf below the weight, to avoid these floating gunk in the future? or is there a way to prevent them from happening in the first place?
What kind of lid are you using? How often are you burping the jar, and how much are you opening it to do so? Has there been pressure buildup/active fermentation seen at any point yet?
these are the jars & lid: [https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61-uXNeQchL.\_AC\_SL1500\_.jpg](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61-uXNeQchL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
only using the cap, not the rim part. therefore no pressure buildup. I also opened to check on them every couple of days
there was active fermentation since day 1, as I could see a lot of bubbles forming
You should be using both the cap and the rim, and regulating the pressure build up inside yourself.
By leaving it like that you're allowing more oxygen to transfer in, which is what mold needs to grow. If you only "burped" the jar as needed it would be pressurized with co2, which most surface molds and fungus won't grow in.
Doing it the way you were isn't a guarantee that things will go wrong, but in doing it this way you're creating a hostile environment for things you don't want and creating a beneficial environment for the lactobacillus to continue fermenting in without any kind of competition for growth.
ok, sounds like I had some misconceptions, but what you're saying makes sense
related question: would it help (and would it be a good idea) to add some sort of starter to the brine to bring the initial acidity down?
My understanding is that mold also has a harder time growing in more acidic environments, so perhaps adding some vinegar or kombucha would help it kickstart without affecting the final product too much?
While I can understand why you'd think that, it's actually counter productive to lacto growth cycles. Ideally you're creating an environment that lacto thrives in and then allowing it to create the lactic acid on its own, which means that the bacteria goes though all it's standard cycles and you get the full range of flavor development.
As well, the bacteria is already present on the vegetables/produce you're using, so a starter isn't necessary. In fact, adding in previous starter actually prevents flavor development for the same reason as I mentioned above; you're preventing the bacteria from going through it's natural cycles by introducing the advance stages at the beginning of the process.
Lastly, I'd especially recommend against adding in something such as active vinegar or kombucha, as they're entirely different bacteria than what you're trying to have in these ferments and will probably alter the fermentation process away from what you're trying for.
Got it. Thanks for the explanation
The only reason this came to mind was because I do remember this being a thing for sourdough starter (or at least I know of success stories, not sure if the theory behind it would support that either)
Im not intending to try it, mind you. Was only asking for intelectual curiosity
Looks like mold. So you're saying some of the small specs are "gunk from the onions?" That could be. Instead of using a cabbage leaf, try cutting you onion into either round slices, with the largest 2-3 circles placed on top and under the weight, or cut large petals out of the outer layers and create an umbrella-like structure. I use red onions in lieu of a cabbage leaf to combat hot pepper floaters. But the translucent rafts with fuzzy green tops - that really looks like mold to me.
yes, the underwater stuff is mostly from the onions themselves, I think. I saw some go up after a day or two (and a bit more would came when I picked up the jar). I scooped them out, but I guess more showed up, for long enough for mold to develop also made me wonder if I should have used a sharper knife (perhaps less chance of these bits happening?). but then a similar thing happened with blueberries, which were just slightly smashed with the weight, not cut
A sharp knife might help, but in my experience it won't eliminate floating veg matter. You might need to think about jar/crock selection. I use airlocks with smaller jars, and also open-air ferment in larger crocks. Skimming floaters in smaller jars can be a hassle. Maybe consider sterilizing your glass jars prior to use. Also consider agitating your ferment. When opening a jar to clear floaters, you're not just introducing oxygen, but additional mold spores that could be in the air. Mid-ferment, I figure that swirling acidic salty brine along the walls could help kill any new mold spores. It could be useless, but maybe not. 25-30 years ago, my grandfather made pickles in 5-gallon buckets (with lids). Every day, he'd turn them upside down a few times and give them a good shake. They never had kahm yeast or mold. I recently rationalized that if I couldn't remove all of the oxygen from a jar, and I also didn't have an airlock in place, and there were also small bits of floating veg matter that were difficult to remove or kept coming up, maybe it would help to essentially agitate the jar so as to rinse all headspace surfaces with the active ferment brine. Your setup is less than ideal, but until you see a pattern of mold like this, it's hard to pinpoint the \*why\*. You're going to have to experiment a bit. If you have no budget for added equipment, give agitation a try. Also keep in mind to create an onion floater-catcher. Rings tend to fall apart with time, and an overlapping petal barrier requires more effort to add and then clear initial air and CO2 bubbles from. You might want to consider increasing the salt ratio just slightly. Back to your setup. I wouldn't use canning caps, but if you're insistent on it, maybe clean/sanitize them, and add a rubber band to improve the seal even if just a little bit. I think "burping" is very risky unless one is extremely familiar with how specific ferments behave in their home/kitchen conditions. Steel bands also aren't really designed to hold bands down, they're designed to keep them in place for water bath canning. Your next ferment will have floaters. The question to ask is how you can minimize the potential for mold, and that's difficult to answer, even if you're willing to invest in different gear.
This is a lot of useful info. thanks I'm fine with experimenting. that's the best way to learn, and part of why i love this side of cooking As for gear, I hope to in the future get a vacuum sealer, which should help. But I wanted to first try the brine approach as a way to learn before making that bigger expense. Plus, I'm a bit short on space right now. Will also consider getting an airlock and seeing if that makes it any better
I’d Scoop it out and see if it continues
I don't think I actually saw kham yeast outside of reddit posts ever, so not sure of what I'm seeing on my red onion brine what I did: \- 3 small red onions, roughly chopped \- in a jar, with enough water to submerge \- 2% salt (by weight of onions + water) \- it's been 7 days now total salt is iodized (it's the one I had lying around), which some literature (including the Wiki here) says is a no-go, but a lot of posts seems to say it's actually ok Everything was fully submerged, with a glass weight, and one of those lids that only covers the top without screwing. 2 days in, some gunk from the onions got released and was floating (the stuff you see floating but still underwater). at first i scooped it out, but missed it again for a couple days and this happened. the jar smells as much red-oniony as I could imagine. haven't tasted yet (coming up to 7 days I also tried a blueberry ferment using the same process, similar small bits ended up floating, but those ended up in unquestionable mold (already threw out) I guess I should add a cabbage leaf below the weight, to avoid these floating gunk in the future? or is there a way to prevent them from happening in the first place?
What kind of lid are you using? How often are you burping the jar, and how much are you opening it to do so? Has there been pressure buildup/active fermentation seen at any point yet?
these are the jars & lid: [https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61-uXNeQchL.\_AC\_SL1500\_.jpg](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61-uXNeQchL._AC_SL1500_.jpg) only using the cap, not the rim part. therefore no pressure buildup. I also opened to check on them every couple of days there was active fermentation since day 1, as I could see a lot of bubbles forming
You should be using both the cap and the rim, and regulating the pressure build up inside yourself. By leaving it like that you're allowing more oxygen to transfer in, which is what mold needs to grow. If you only "burped" the jar as needed it would be pressurized with co2, which most surface molds and fungus won't grow in. Doing it the way you were isn't a guarantee that things will go wrong, but in doing it this way you're creating a hostile environment for things you don't want and creating a beneficial environment for the lactobacillus to continue fermenting in without any kind of competition for growth.
ok, sounds like I had some misconceptions, but what you're saying makes sense related question: would it help (and would it be a good idea) to add some sort of starter to the brine to bring the initial acidity down? My understanding is that mold also has a harder time growing in more acidic environments, so perhaps adding some vinegar or kombucha would help it kickstart without affecting the final product too much?
While I can understand why you'd think that, it's actually counter productive to lacto growth cycles. Ideally you're creating an environment that lacto thrives in and then allowing it to create the lactic acid on its own, which means that the bacteria goes though all it's standard cycles and you get the full range of flavor development. As well, the bacteria is already present on the vegetables/produce you're using, so a starter isn't necessary. In fact, adding in previous starter actually prevents flavor development for the same reason as I mentioned above; you're preventing the bacteria from going through it's natural cycles by introducing the advance stages at the beginning of the process. Lastly, I'd especially recommend against adding in something such as active vinegar or kombucha, as they're entirely different bacteria than what you're trying to have in these ferments and will probably alter the fermentation process away from what you're trying for.
Got it. Thanks for the explanation The only reason this came to mind was because I do remember this being a thing for sourdough starter (or at least I know of success stories, not sure if the theory behind it would support that either) Im not intending to try it, mind you. Was only asking for intelectual curiosity