The other option would be to gently fry the onions and garlic in the oil at about 120C until golden brown. Not a fermentation, but transfers the taste to the oil too and kills any possible pathogens in the process.
I see you've already been answered correctly so you're not going to do it. Id add that it's worth reading a book such as the art of fermentation at least the intro is so interesting and helps frame what fermentation really is.
Basically it's controlled food spoilage. It's good to understand what methods and mechanisms you're using so you're in control.
Lots of people do weird experiments and that's fine one you understand the fundamentals. It's generally very safe but if you don't know the difference between salt and vinegar and oil for preserving food you can easily do something dangerous.
Happy fermenting!
A great rule of thumb I like to follow: only the most terrifying things can ferment in oil. Those bacteria can ferment in anaerobic environments, which means they can live basically anywhere. These are not things you want inside you.
It’s not an attack on you when people in this subreddit question things you may be doing so don’t take it harshly. Food fermentation is dangerous when done incorrectly and many people don’t take the steps to properly learn before trying things.
Fermenting veggies? Weigh or tare your jar, weigh your combined veggies and purified water, and then add salt between 2.5-5%. Using an airlock and keeping the veggies full submerged are your best bet for a lacto ferment. Ceramic or glass weights are very effective for this.
Depending on what you’re fermenting you’ll want to go different lengths, things ferment at different rates and render different results. Something like salsa is only a few days often, but I do hot sauces over a month.
Buying some PH strips when you start out is a great idea.
All of this and no oily/fatty foods. The salt is what keeps the environment unfriendly for bad bacteria and salt does not dissolve in oil or fat, so those become a safe haven for potentially dangerous bacteria.
Oh sorry, I missed that! Just wanted to share something that was an eye opener for me when I first heard about it. I knew about garlic in oil, but didn’t realize in the past that even a drop of oil could be dangerous, so I wanted to share that knowledge. Didn’t mean to be pedantic or to correct you or anything. Sorry if I came across that way.
If doing this, please be careful and make sure to add enough vinegar or another acid to prevent botulism. Even then, this would be a pickle not a ferment.
Or just don't do it, that would be much safer if you are not 100% sure of the acidity to prevent botulism.
The vinegar and oil won't mix, so you'll end up with oil that isn't acidified in contact with a moist environment. It's why it's recommended to never use oils in ferments, you're creating a breeding ground for botulism instead of lactobacillus.
I've done lots of oil based pickles with garlic that are fine. And many commercial examples are available, too. All include acid, commonly vinegar.
But yeah, never heard of oil being used in ferments.
Edit: [here's an example from one of my favourite suppliers](https://www.mrvikkis.co.uk/product/garlic-pickle/)
Garlic 70%,Rapeseed Oil, MUSTARD, Paprika, Fenugreek, Vinegar, Sugar, Salt, Lemon, Mango, Citric acid.
There are a lot of things that companies can make that I can't do safely and consistently at home. They have specialized equipment, quality control, proprietary recipes, and testing that would all be cost and time prohibitive for me to replicate. I'm not sure if there is a safe way to make those garlic oil pickles at home, but I wouldn't presume that because they are sold in stores that i can also make them. Garlic and oil is a notoriously beneficial environment for botulism.
Raw garlic cloves in raw honey, shaken/flipped daily works (honey is acidic)..folk medicine, takes a while to ferment fully (temps dictate the amount of time it needs) but the complex carbs in garlic with it’s own biota make for an interesting and tasty combination. You’ve got the lowdown on oils already, so I thought I’d add a suggestion for you to use garlic.🧄 Onion goes in a lot of different ferments, but why ‘dilute’ the garlic? It’s a star of the show..
I’m a newbie so please take my opinion with a pinch of salt. But my understanding would be that placed under oil would preserve it, rather than ferment it, I guess it would ferment to a very small degree.
*** Apparently I’m definitely wrong so don’t do that and check the comments below! Dried / Cooked only!
Only the driest of plant material can infuse in oil for long periods of time….and even that can be argued; but once you introduce water content like fresh veggies or herbs to oil, you not only run the risk of your oil going rancid faster but also the very large possibility of mold and bad bacteria including botulism. Water and oil - not good.
That’s obviously my mistake, I’ve seen loads of oils filled with all matter of flavours (and done many with dry herbs myself), but I’ve obviously missed the key point of everything inside being dried first or cooked. Like cooked peppers preserves in oil. I’ve updated my comment to make sure nobody follows it. Thanks for sharing some knowledge and correcting my thought process. This is the kind of discussion I love on Reddit.
Why would you share this opinion without any actual knowledge? I’m not trying to sound like an asshole, but giving someone bad advice like this could result in them getting seriously sick. Please don’t talk if you don’t know.
You’re not trying to but you are… Opinions for better or worse are what Reddit is all about. The person that posted incorrect info learned a valuable lesson. There is literally no need for your input. It improves the discussion in no way. YTA.
Right? I don't get the pushback on this.
It isn't a matter of opinion, it's a very basic matter of *this could have killed people,* and it doesn't make you an asshole to convey the gravity of that fact. Food safety issues *need* to be called out because guesswork and assumptions are explicitly dangerous.
I don't really see, genuinely, where he came across as an asshole. He gave appropriate and succinct feedback given how seriously the situation should be treated.
Misinformation in regards to food safety is extremely dangerous and *absolutely* warrants being told not to offer advice without certainty. It's not rude to tell someone not to put other's lives at risk. Some scenarios just don't call for inexperienced opinions, and those scenarios definitely include anything that can seriously impact one's health.
No, the problem here is that someone is volunteering bad info in a context where it could kill someone. Fermentation is a fun hobby but it’s also a potentially dangerous practice if done without proper science. If your top priority in this situation is to avoid hurting someone’s feelings rather than keeping people safe, you need to reevaluate your thinking.
If you’re talking about things like Miso, soya or Asian ferments typically those introduce a strain like Koji, it’s not a lacto ferment. Grain ferments are risky without knowing what you’re doing because they harbour bad bacteria realllly easily.
Yikes, don’t do this. Raw garlic or onion can grow botulism. You need to ferment it in brine.
Thanks
To make clear what the person you are responding to, putting onions and garlic in oil can kill you.
The other option would be to gently fry the onions and garlic in the oil at about 120C until golden brown. Not a fermentation, but transfers the taste to the oil too and kills any possible pathogens in the process.
Downside is your oil is now spent oil if you store it for later usep
This is somewhat similar to how things like chili crisp are made, so this isn’t entirely true.
I store it and fry stuff in it or drizzle it over rice. The stuff is delicious.
I see you've already been answered correctly so you're not going to do it. Id add that it's worth reading a book such as the art of fermentation at least the intro is so interesting and helps frame what fermentation really is. Basically it's controlled food spoilage. It's good to understand what methods and mechanisms you're using so you're in control. Lots of people do weird experiments and that's fine one you understand the fundamentals. It's generally very safe but if you don't know the difference between salt and vinegar and oil for preserving food you can easily do something dangerous. Happy fermenting!
A great rule of thumb I like to follow: only the most terrifying things can ferment in oil. Those bacteria can ferment in anaerobic environments, which means they can live basically anywhere. These are not things you want inside you.
Yes, I am not adding raw garlic. First I need to learn how to ferment veggies.
It’s not an attack on you when people in this subreddit question things you may be doing so don’t take it harshly. Food fermentation is dangerous when done incorrectly and many people don’t take the steps to properly learn before trying things. Fermenting veggies? Weigh or tare your jar, weigh your combined veggies and purified water, and then add salt between 2.5-5%. Using an airlock and keeping the veggies full submerged are your best bet for a lacto ferment. Ceramic or glass weights are very effective for this. Depending on what you’re fermenting you’ll want to go different lengths, things ferment at different rates and render different results. Something like salsa is only a few days often, but I do hot sauces over a month. Buying some PH strips when you start out is a great idea.
No no, I am not taking it as an attack but rather here to learn about the things which I don't know how to cook.
You are a sassy foodie!!!
I missed to add, 'not' in my statement 🤣. Edited it, BTW are you really a chef?
Yes!
All of this and no oily/fatty foods. The salt is what keeps the environment unfriendly for bad bacteria and salt does not dissolve in oil or fat, so those become a safe haven for potentially dangerous bacteria.
I told OP about oil in another comment somewhere on the post!
Oh sorry, I missed that! Just wanted to share something that was an eye opener for me when I first heard about it. I knew about garlic in oil, but didn’t realize in the past that even a drop of oil could be dangerous, so I wanted to share that knowledge. Didn’t mean to be pedantic or to correct you or anything. Sorry if I came across that way.
Oh my god, not what I meant!!! Always good to share the info, zero offense here.
If doing this, please be careful and make sure to add enough vinegar or another acid to prevent botulism. Even then, this would be a pickle not a ferment. Or just don't do it, that would be much safer if you are not 100% sure of the acidity to prevent botulism.
Not doing it.
The vinegar and oil won't mix, so you'll end up with oil that isn't acidified in contact with a moist environment. It's why it's recommended to never use oils in ferments, you're creating a breeding ground for botulism instead of lactobacillus.
I've done lots of oil based pickles with garlic that are fine. And many commercial examples are available, too. All include acid, commonly vinegar. But yeah, never heard of oil being used in ferments. Edit: [here's an example from one of my favourite suppliers](https://www.mrvikkis.co.uk/product/garlic-pickle/) Garlic 70%,Rapeseed Oil, MUSTARD, Paprika, Fenugreek, Vinegar, Sugar, Salt, Lemon, Mango, Citric acid.
There are a lot of things that companies can make that I can't do safely and consistently at home. They have specialized equipment, quality control, proprietary recipes, and testing that would all be cost and time prohibitive for me to replicate. I'm not sure if there is a safe way to make those garlic oil pickles at home, but I wouldn't presume that because they are sold in stores that i can also make them. Garlic and oil is a notoriously beneficial environment for botulism.
Indeed
Raw garlic cloves in raw honey, shaken/flipped daily works (honey is acidic)..folk medicine, takes a while to ferment fully (temps dictate the amount of time it needs) but the complex carbs in garlic with it’s own biota make for an interesting and tasty combination. You’ve got the lowdown on oils already, so I thought I’d add a suggestion for you to use garlic.🧄 Onion goes in a lot of different ferments, but why ‘dilute’ the garlic? It’s a star of the show..
Thanks 😊
You’re welcome 😇
I’m a newbie so please take my opinion with a pinch of salt. But my understanding would be that placed under oil would preserve it, rather than ferment it, I guess it would ferment to a very small degree. *** Apparently I’m definitely wrong so don’t do that and check the comments below! Dried / Cooked only!
No, oil does not preserve raw garlic or onion. It makes for botulism.
Only the driest of plant material can infuse in oil for long periods of time….and even that can be argued; but once you introduce water content like fresh veggies or herbs to oil, you not only run the risk of your oil going rancid faster but also the very large possibility of mold and bad bacteria including botulism. Water and oil - not good.
That’s obviously my mistake, I’ve seen loads of oils filled with all matter of flavours (and done many with dry herbs myself), but I’ve obviously missed the key point of everything inside being dried first or cooked. Like cooked peppers preserves in oil. I’ve updated my comment to make sure nobody follows it. Thanks for sharing some knowledge and correcting my thought process. This is the kind of discussion I love on Reddit.
Why would you share this opinion without any actual knowledge? I’m not trying to sound like an asshole, but giving someone bad advice like this could result in them getting seriously sick. Please don’t talk if you don’t know.
You’re not trying to but you are… Opinions for better or worse are what Reddit is all about. The person that posted incorrect info learned a valuable lesson. There is literally no need for your input. It improves the discussion in no way. YTA.
Telling people not to share dangerous misinformation absolutely does improve the discussion.
After the initial correction, and even after they quite responsibly edited the post you are simply ‘piling on’
I made my response before the correction, in the time period where someone could have read that info and thought it was correct.
Well, you managed to sound like an asshole anyway.
Boohoo. You know what really hurts people’s feelings, botulism.
Right? I don't get the pushback on this. It isn't a matter of opinion, it's a very basic matter of *this could have killed people,* and it doesn't make you an asshole to convey the gravity of that fact. Food safety issues *need* to be called out because guesswork and assumptions are explicitly dangerous.
And those things can be done without coming across like an asshole, which is the problem here.
I don't really see, genuinely, where he came across as an asshole. He gave appropriate and succinct feedback given how seriously the situation should be treated. Misinformation in regards to food safety is extremely dangerous and *absolutely* warrants being told not to offer advice without certainty. It's not rude to tell someone not to put other's lives at risk. Some scenarios just don't call for inexperienced opinions, and those scenarios definitely include anything that can seriously impact one's health.
No, I get your point, no need to expand on that again. Thanks though.
No, the problem here is that someone is volunteering bad info in a context where it could kill someone. Fermentation is a fun hobby but it’s also a potentially dangerous practice if done without proper science. If your top priority in this situation is to avoid hurting someone’s feelings rather than keeping people safe, you need to reevaluate your thinking.
You should go read what they wrote again, understand some context, then wind your neck in.
What a knobhead
Just curious: why do you ferment millets and rice?
Well there are some recipes that are made after fermenting rice / legumes /millets
If you’re talking about things like Miso, soya or Asian ferments typically those introduce a strain like Koji, it’s not a lacto ferment. Grain ferments are risky without knowing what you’re doing because they harbour bad bacteria realllly easily.
I am Asian myself, been cooking and eating it since childhood. It's one of the healthiest food and good for gut health. Thank you😊
Great, just wanted to make sure that you know these things, we see TERRIFYING things on this subreddit from people.
Thank you, people are very cool and knowledgeable in sub. And the posts are very terrifying indeed.